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Selected Dialogues
Benjamin Jowett's translations of Plato have long been classics in their own right. In this volume, Professor Hayden Pelliccia has revised Jowett's renderings of five key dialogues, giving us a modern Plato faithful to both Jowett's best features and Plato's own masterly style.
Gathered here are many of Plato's liveliest and richest texts. Ion takes up the question of poetry and introduces the Socratic method. Protagoras discusses poetic interpretation and shows why cross-examination is the best way to get at the truth. Phaedrus takes on the nature of rhetoric, psychology, and love, as does the famous Symposium. Finally, Apology gives us Socrates' art of persuasion put to the ultimate test--defending his own life.
Pelliccia's new Introduction to this volume clarifies its contents and addresses the challenges of translating Plato freshly and accurately. In its combination of accessibility and depth, Selected Dialogues of Plato is the ideal introduction to one of the key thinkers of all time.
Gathered here are many of Plato's liveliest and richest texts. Ion takes up the question of poetry and introduces the Socratic method. Protagoras discusses poetic interpretation and shows why cross-examination is the best way to get at the truth. Phaedrus takes on the nature of rhetoric, psychology, and love, as does the famous Symposium. Finally, Apology gives us Socrates' art of persuasion put to the ultimate test--defending his own life.
Pelliccia's new Introduction to this volume clarifies its contents and addresses the challenges of translating Plato freshly and accurately. In its combination of accessibility and depth, Selected Dialogues of Plato is the ideal introduction to one of the key thinkers of all time.
352 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 1983
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About the author
Plato
4,982 books8,406 followersPlato (Greek: Πλάτων), born Aristocles (c. 427 – 348 BC), was an ancient Greek philosopher of the Classical period who is considered a foundational thinker in Western philosophy and an innovator of the written dialogue and dialectic forms. He raised problems for what became all the major areas of both theoretical philosophy and practical philosophy, and was the founder of the Platonic Academy, a philosophical school in Athens where Plato taught the doctrines that would later become known as Platonism.
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."
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Displaying 1 - 14 of 14 reviews
June 26, 2014
How should you really do a review of this? I want to start by stating the formula I came up with for giving it the 3 star "I liked it" rating. First and foremost, the thing that really makes this collection of dialogues readable is the heartfelt and piercing introduction by Hayden Pelliccia. This introduction, accompanied with explanations on why the Jowett translation was used, how she improved on the Jowett translation, and her quest for accuracy in the details of the dialogues, is what really brought this rating to 3 stars. Lets be honest, without the little numbers and explanations below the ideas in the dialogue you would have to be a professor of Greek mythology, history, and language, to even being to understand some of the terms, and the play on words being used.
Next, is the arrangement, and the dialogues selected. By all accounts this was brilliant. By taking the steps of first, introducing how Socrates used his methods in Ion , and then slowly walking the reader through the more complex uses of dialogue, Pelliccia has almost created a symphony of literature. Everything follows smoothly, and in time. As a matter of recourse, Pelliccia herself, persuades the reader in the introduction to "choose any way of reading they like" and to specifically "perhaps, read the Apology first, and then come back to it later. It's as if she knew that by understanding the building blocks that gives the reader a picture a Socrates could more easily be understood in this method.
Next, to review the works themselves, there is not much I wish to say or care tom comment about them. I will say that some of the subject matter (gods, goddesses, pleasing forces, ideas of forms) were absolutely ludicrous. Also, and probably more pervasive in my view than anything else, was the idea that we are getting this conception of Socrates through a sort of 3rd party source. It as almost as if someone heard a story who told it to someone else, who in return told it to someone else, who then decided to write it down, giving their own "spin" on the information. I think Socrates himself would have been highly disappointed in the way his ideas were presented. He would of probably questioned them, cross examined them, and then ultimately dismissed them as not pleasing to the god's and in and of themselves somehow lacking in wisdom. But, what do I know, only that I know nothing...
Lastly, and I make this comment only because I find it curiously disturbing, is the average rating of this book. It would seem that it is rated at close to 5 stars (I think 4.78 if I read it correctly). Yet, when I check other people reviews, I sense a complete lack of them even having read this particular version of the book, having rated it with no review, or having gone in in their reviews to discuss other works by Plato that have no significance to the ratings of this one. Highly disturbing indeed...
Next, is the arrangement, and the dialogues selected. By all accounts this was brilliant. By taking the steps of first, introducing how Socrates used his methods in Ion , and then slowly walking the reader through the more complex uses of dialogue, Pelliccia has almost created a symphony of literature. Everything follows smoothly, and in time. As a matter of recourse, Pelliccia herself, persuades the reader in the introduction to "choose any way of reading they like" and to specifically "perhaps, read the Apology first, and then come back to it later. It's as if she knew that by understanding the building blocks that gives the reader a picture a Socrates could more easily be understood in this method.
Next, to review the works themselves, there is not much I wish to say or care tom comment about them. I will say that some of the subject matter (gods, goddesses, pleasing forces, ideas of forms) were absolutely ludicrous. Also, and probably more pervasive in my view than anything else, was the idea that we are getting this conception of Socrates through a sort of 3rd party source. It as almost as if someone heard a story who told it to someone else, who in return told it to someone else, who then decided to write it down, giving their own "spin" on the information. I think Socrates himself would have been highly disappointed in the way his ideas were presented. He would of probably questioned them, cross examined them, and then ultimately dismissed them as not pleasing to the god's and in and of themselves somehow lacking in wisdom. But, what do I know, only that I know nothing...
Lastly, and I make this comment only because I find it curiously disturbing, is the average rating of this book. It would seem that it is rated at close to 5 stars (I think 4.78 if I read it correctly). Yet, when I check other people reviews, I sense a complete lack of them even having read this particular version of the book, having rated it with no review, or having gone in in their reviews to discuss other works by Plato that have no significance to the ratings of this one. Highly disturbing indeed...
May 23, 2025
The hour of departure has arrived, and we go our ways–I to die, and you to live. Which is the better the god only knows. (from "Apology")
Absolutely loved these 5 dialogues ("Ion", "Protagoras", "Phaedrus", "Symposium" and "Apology"), they're a great place to start with Plato. I found the dramatised encounters between Socrates and various other interlocutors so engaging, stimulating and entertaining, and more than just philosophy, they are wonderful literary texts on their own. Yes, our man Socrates is a bit of an infuriating debate lord and yes, he sometimes introduces some eyebrow-rising, flawed premises, but nevertheless it is all a thrilling literary and intellectual experience. It was made even better for me since I read this immediately after finishing Augustine's "Confessions" and I was able to detect first-hand some of the immense influences Platonism had on Augustine's thinking.
Absolutely loved these 5 dialogues ("Ion", "Protagoras", "Phaedrus", "Symposium" and "Apology"), they're a great place to start with Plato. I found the dramatised encounters between Socrates and various other interlocutors so engaging, stimulating and entertaining, and more than just philosophy, they are wonderful literary texts on their own. Yes, our man Socrates is a bit of an infuriating debate lord and yes, he sometimes introduces some eyebrow-rising, flawed premises, but nevertheless it is all a thrilling literary and intellectual experience. It was made even better for me since I read this immediately after finishing Augustine's "Confessions" and I was able to detect first-hand some of the immense influences Platonism had on Augustine's thinking.
July 7, 2017
Platonic dialogues, while some of the most important philosophical works this world will ever see, can be awfully dull at times. That is the only reason I am withholding that fifth star in this review. Part of me actually hopes that Socrates didn't actually exist and that he was sort of a Martinus Scriblerus for Plato and his compatriots. If Socrates existed and actually spoke to people the way he does in Plato's dialogues, it's no wonder he was put to death.
At any rate, this selection of Plato's dialogues was well-edited. The only excluded dialogue I would have liked to see was Euthyphro. Nit-picking aside, I enjoyed this book.
At any rate, this selection of Plato's dialogues was well-edited. The only excluded dialogue I would have liked to see was Euthyphro. Nit-picking aside, I enjoyed this book.
March 9, 2024
Plato's writings file under the category of books I really want to get more our of than I actually do. This particular edition has the double-edge feature of an abundance of footnotes, some lengthy. On one hand, it's great to have an explanation for every reference to a real person or allusion to Homer. On the other hand, it really takes me out of the flow of reading something that is already a little tough to stay with. Certainly a lot to admire, but tough without guidance.
August 21, 2021
Fav is Ion
March 29, 2025
Was kinda hard to read since there was like 30 pages of dictionary full of ancient Greek terms and myths and the word order was trying to be fancy
August 12, 2023
It is rather impossible to say anything new or insightful about Plato at this stage so I have to limit myself to my personal take on these dialogues. Plato deploys his mouthpiece and former teacher Socrates to argument and converse about a series of subjects, some of them eternal, some of them rather strange. The structure of all dialogues is very similar throughout, Socrates finds himself an interesting companion or group of friends and asks questions about their beliefs until he demolishes them and really dissolves the whole thing into that state of knowing nothing but inquiring a lot that is the trademark of the Socratic method.
So in the dialogue "Ion" we find an arrogant fellow that thinks that because he knows Homer by heart, he should be able to wage war and govern Athens. Easy pickings for Socrates in this case.
In "Protagoras" we find a more sophisticated contender. Protagoras is a long-winded sophist visiting town that dares to charge for his teachings and claims that virtue can be taught. Here Plato is at its best in chiseling away the certainties of his opponent and cautioning Athens youth about how they choose to spend their time and money seeking knowledge. I should add, all dialogues meander into other subjects as well and sometimes it takes a while to get them off the ground with Socrates often explaining at large how the speeches are going to be organized and what is at stake.
The Phaedrus is an interesting take on whether it is better to be a detached lover or a passionate one. The examples given are of the homosexual nature and love of boys , first beard boys, not children. This is another interesting aspect of Plato's dialogues, they give us a very good, if partial, look at the elites of Athens during his time and their worries. Homosexuality, for example, was neither the free-for-all some imagine nor was it a surprise to most educated folk. Plato, for example, spares no joke against Aristophanes for his tendencies and respects long lasting relationships while managing to ignore women in some parts -he however didn't see any problem with them being philosophers - and censoring promiscuity and older men pursuing younger men well past the time when the relationship was mutually beneficial.
The Sympsosium is a collection of speeches , some fanciful some exalted about Love. Here one can find the famous "legend" of men and women being originally divided into three sexes that Zeus split into two, a punishment that accounts for the pursuit of the "other half" . I admit it was a bit of slog towards the end.
The "Apology" finds Socrates defending himself against the Assembly which condemned him to death (famously enacted by drinking hemlock) for impiety and perverting the youth. Socrates knows the Assembly has made up their mind but he gives it a good try. Interesting to also see that this was done with no lawyers and that the prosecution, a gnarly guy called Metelus, had to answer questions.
I wouldn't call this light reading. It can be intensely dull and sometimes you want to send Socrates to death yourself. But what starts to shine through is a method of inquiry that perdures to this day and that is based on reason alone. There is very little in the guise of real life experiments here but rather Socrates (Plato) grabs concepts like "virtue", "beauty", piety" , "art" and starts to play with mince them up until they are reduced to the basic substrate. These are the "forms", ideal states of things of which everything we see is a pale reflection. This type of thinking seems radical in a world soaked to the brim with unquestioned gods and myth and superstition and hence, becomes a foundational piece of Western thought : "question things" . Of course Plato gets to some rarefied neighbourhoods with this method but that doesn't deprive him of merit.
He is a complete right-wing aristocrat but tries to elevate himself above his own system of beliefs and finds ideas that would make left wingers blush. He is the cousin of tyrants like Critias and Alcibiades and abhors their attempts at power but is dreadfully suspicious of democracies. Plato is not even his real name (it means something like 'chubby'). The more you delve into his life and thought, the richer it becomes. These dialogues are a good place to start before attempting the mammoth of his "The Republic".
So in the dialogue "Ion" we find an arrogant fellow that thinks that because he knows Homer by heart, he should be able to wage war and govern Athens. Easy pickings for Socrates in this case.
In "Protagoras" we find a more sophisticated contender. Protagoras is a long-winded sophist visiting town that dares to charge for his teachings and claims that virtue can be taught. Here Plato is at its best in chiseling away the certainties of his opponent and cautioning Athens youth about how they choose to spend their time and money seeking knowledge. I should add, all dialogues meander into other subjects as well and sometimes it takes a while to get them off the ground with Socrates often explaining at large how the speeches are going to be organized and what is at stake.
The Phaedrus is an interesting take on whether it is better to be a detached lover or a passionate one. The examples given are of the homosexual nature and love of boys , first beard boys, not children. This is another interesting aspect of Plato's dialogues, they give us a very good, if partial, look at the elites of Athens during his time and their worries. Homosexuality, for example, was neither the free-for-all some imagine nor was it a surprise to most educated folk. Plato, for example, spares no joke against Aristophanes for his tendencies and respects long lasting relationships while managing to ignore women in some parts -he however didn't see any problem with them being philosophers - and censoring promiscuity and older men pursuing younger men well past the time when the relationship was mutually beneficial.
The Sympsosium is a collection of speeches , some fanciful some exalted about Love. Here one can find the famous "legend" of men and women being originally divided into three sexes that Zeus split into two, a punishment that accounts for the pursuit of the "other half" . I admit it was a bit of slog towards the end.
The "Apology" finds Socrates defending himself against the Assembly which condemned him to death (famously enacted by drinking hemlock) for impiety and perverting the youth. Socrates knows the Assembly has made up their mind but he gives it a good try. Interesting to also see that this was done with no lawyers and that the prosecution, a gnarly guy called Metelus, had to answer questions.
I wouldn't call this light reading. It can be intensely dull and sometimes you want to send Socrates to death yourself. But what starts to shine through is a method of inquiry that perdures to this day and that is based on reason alone. There is very little in the guise of real life experiments here but rather Socrates (Plato) grabs concepts like "virtue", "beauty", piety" , "art" and starts to play with mince them up until they are reduced to the basic substrate. These are the "forms", ideal states of things of which everything we see is a pale reflection. This type of thinking seems radical in a world soaked to the brim with unquestioned gods and myth and superstition and hence, becomes a foundational piece of Western thought : "question things" . Of course Plato gets to some rarefied neighbourhoods with this method but that doesn't deprive him of merit.
He is a complete right-wing aristocrat but tries to elevate himself above his own system of beliefs and finds ideas that would make left wingers blush. He is the cousin of tyrants like Critias and Alcibiades and abhors their attempts at power but is dreadfully suspicious of democracies. Plato is not even his real name (it means something like 'chubby'). The more you delve into his life and thought, the richer it becomes. These dialogues are a good place to start before attempting the mammoth of his "The Republic".
March 29, 2025
Reading Plato’s Republic in high school and leaving it unfinished left me with the sense that the philosophy was solely about the ideas (of governance) and not as much about the style nor method of speech. Now I realize the organization and presentation made at least as much. It was not until finishing all the extant Athenian tragedies and reading Plutarch’s Greek Lives that Athenian thought, society and history came to make more sense—in particular of its religious dimension. Homer, Hesiod, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Aristotle, Xenophon, Apollonius of Rhodes, Plutarch and Arrian give shape to and hint at a Greek religiosity beyond myth and story. Many of the myths come to feel presaging Christian stories, and especially certain motifs of the hero, savior, and martyr. Now I realize one needs this wealth of knowledge to make sense of references and give insight into the intricacies of the dramatic persons joining Socrates in conversation.
Learning of the structure of tragedy, and its development of dithyrambic chorus, helped to place Plato’s writing into a broader field of tragedians, comedians, rhapsodes, sophists, and philosophers. Plato’s “dramatic dialogues” frame the method of his writing as well as offering a view of Socratic interrogations and cross-examinations. This volume included five: Ion, Phaedrus, Protagorus, The Symposium, Apology. The ordering of these from short and simple to increasingly long and more significant dialogues allowed understanding of the unique process of Socrates cross-examination. At times, and honestly for much of the time, Socrates comes off as someone given to harm or insult others for speaking falsely. His destruction of Ion the rhapsode is embarrassing, and in moments contains ill-will. Phaedrus was my favorite as it introduced an idyllic setting and action apart from the dialogue. All the rest are classics and are to be experienced be reading them. Actively reading by circling, underlining, and parsing the ideas so densely presented, and subtly decoded the nuance of both style and content.
After loving these so much, and as a consequence of reading all extant complete Greek tragedies, I bought to venture into another 30 or so works of the ancient world. The sheer invention of original thought and creative language more than 2000 years ago continues to astound.
Next up will be Xenophon’s four Socratic writings: Apology, Memoriabilia, Symposium, Oeconomicus
Learning of the structure of tragedy, and its development of dithyrambic chorus, helped to place Plato’s writing into a broader field of tragedians, comedians, rhapsodes, sophists, and philosophers. Plato’s “dramatic dialogues” frame the method of his writing as well as offering a view of Socratic interrogations and cross-examinations. This volume included five: Ion, Phaedrus, Protagorus, The Symposium, Apology. The ordering of these from short and simple to increasingly long and more significant dialogues allowed understanding of the unique process of Socrates cross-examination. At times, and honestly for much of the time, Socrates comes off as someone given to harm or insult others for speaking falsely. His destruction of Ion the rhapsode is embarrassing, and in moments contains ill-will. Phaedrus was my favorite as it introduced an idyllic setting and action apart from the dialogue. All the rest are classics and are to be experienced be reading them. Actively reading by circling, underlining, and parsing the ideas so densely presented, and subtly decoded the nuance of both style and content.
After loving these so much, and as a consequence of reading all extant complete Greek tragedies, I bought to venture into another 30 or so works of the ancient world. The sheer invention of original thought and creative language more than 2000 years ago continues to astound.
"You, my friend a citizen of the great city of Athens, famous for its culture and Power—are you not ashamed of heaping up the largest amount of money and status and reputation, and caring so little about wisdom and truth and improving as much as possible your soul, which you never regard nor heed at all?" And if some one of you disagrees and says that he does care, then I will not leave him nor let him go at once, but will interrogate and examine and cross-examine him, and if I think that he has no virtue in him but only says that he has, I shall reproach him with undervaluing what is most precious, and overvaluing what is less. And I shall repeat the same words to everyone whom I meet, young and old, citizen and foreigner, but especially to you citizens, inasmuch as you are my brothers. For this is the command of the god— know it well. And I believe that no greater good has ever happened to you in this city than my service to the god.
Next up will be Xenophon’s four Socratic writings: Apology, Memoriabilia, Symposium, Oeconomicus
April 19, 2011
Hayden Pelliccia de-Victorianizes Benjamin Jowlett's translation of five writings - mis-titled Dialogues, as the Apology is almost entirely a monologue - selected for their literary representation of Aristocles. The first three dialogues are named for the interlocuter engaging Socrates.
'Dialogues' begins with an un-intimidating dialogue in Ion. This humorous and short writing has Socrates overwhelming a witless antagonist, who has such a broad definition of his art that he equates it with generalship.
The second dialogue, Protagoras, pits Socrates against the greatest sophist. This epistemological dialogue deals with the nature of virtue and justice, and is notable for Socrates promotion of the idea that no man commits evil willfully:
"All who do evil and dishonorable things do them against their will."
Following this idea through, we arrive at the idea that virtue and knowledge are synonymous, one of the core principles expressed throughout the philosophy of Plato. Protagoras and Socrates end in precisely the opposite positions they began with; Protagoras in the position that all of virtue is one identical inherent entity; and Socrates with the position that virtue, as equated with knowledge, is therefore a teachable subject.
Phaedrus is of enormous impact to the Western spiritual tradition. Plato has Socrates demonstrating, a priori, the immortality of the soul:
"Beginning itself cannot be begotten of anything. For if Beginning came out of and thus after something, then it would not exist from the beginning."
Here Plato seems to have had difficulty grasping the fact that words are abstract symbols conveying our abstract ideas of the universe, and that they have no inherent meaning besides the meaning we allot to them. This error pervades the philosophy of Plato.
As the immortal soul espoused by Plato was of enormous influence in St. Augustine's reconciliation of Neoplatonism with Christianity, it is interesting that the means prescribed by Plato for the elevation of the soul was pederasty. I resist a cheap joke at the expense of the clergy with some reluctance.
The crescendo of Plato's literary genius is reached in the Symposium, a work comprising seven monologues on the nature of Love (personified) and the lesser plebeian love, as well as the nature of beauty. Beauty is first apprehended by the eye, which leads us to the form of an eternal, unchanging, perfect beauty of which only the intellect is capable of grasping through (what else) philosophy.
This collection is a well-annotated and readable sampling of writings from the philosopher who influenced Western thought more than any other.
'Dialogues' begins with an un-intimidating dialogue in Ion. This humorous and short writing has Socrates overwhelming a witless antagonist, who has such a broad definition of his art that he equates it with generalship.
The second dialogue, Protagoras, pits Socrates against the greatest sophist. This epistemological dialogue deals with the nature of virtue and justice, and is notable for Socrates promotion of the idea that no man commits evil willfully:
"All who do evil and dishonorable things do them against their will."
Following this idea through, we arrive at the idea that virtue and knowledge are synonymous, one of the core principles expressed throughout the philosophy of Plato. Protagoras and Socrates end in precisely the opposite positions they began with; Protagoras in the position that all of virtue is one identical inherent entity; and Socrates with the position that virtue, as equated with knowledge, is therefore a teachable subject.
Phaedrus is of enormous impact to the Western spiritual tradition. Plato has Socrates demonstrating, a priori, the immortality of the soul:
"Beginning itself cannot be begotten of anything. For if Beginning came out of and thus after something, then it would not exist from the beginning."
Here Plato seems to have had difficulty grasping the fact that words are abstract symbols conveying our abstract ideas of the universe, and that they have no inherent meaning besides the meaning we allot to them. This error pervades the philosophy of Plato.
As the immortal soul espoused by Plato was of enormous influence in St. Augustine's reconciliation of Neoplatonism with Christianity, it is interesting that the means prescribed by Plato for the elevation of the soul was pederasty. I resist a cheap joke at the expense of the clergy with some reluctance.
The crescendo of Plato's literary genius is reached in the Symposium, a work comprising seven monologues on the nature of Love (personified) and the lesser plebeian love, as well as the nature of beauty. Beauty is first apprehended by the eye, which leads us to the form of an eternal, unchanging, perfect beauty of which only the intellect is capable of grasping through (what else) philosophy.
This collection is a well-annotated and readable sampling of writings from the philosopher who influenced Western thought more than any other.
October 5, 2009
I admit that I didn't give this book my full attention. If my observations are off-base, this is why.
It appears to me that Plato was a Marxist. Or rather that Marx was a Platoist.
In "The Republic," he called for children to be taken away from their parents at a very early age to be raised by the state:
"The proper officers will take the offspring of the good parents to the pen or the fold, and there they will deposit them with certain nurses who dwell in a separate quarter; but the offspring of the inferior, or of the better when they chance to be deformed, will be put away in some mysterious, unknown place, as they should be."
Plato may have been a great philosopher, but I call that chilling.
He also argued that philosophers would make the best kings, which is ridiculous. Say your kingdom needed a road. The philosopher-king would want to examine the existential questions surrounding roads. Why do they exist? Where do they go? If a road returns from whence it came, did it really go anyplace?
You'd never get a road built.
"The Republic" is excerpted at length in the volume I read, which also includes complete texts of "Apology," "Crito," "Phaedo" and "Symposium."
Of these, "Symposium" is by far the most entertaining. In it, Socrates gathers with a group of other philosophers and learned men. They had gotten together the night before, and had overindulged. So they agree that this night no one will be required to drink. They send the flute-girls away -- apparently, the presence of flute-girls required everyone to have a rollicking good time. And they agree to spend the evening offering speeches in praise of love.
One member of the group arrives much later, drunk himself and appalled that the others haven't been drinking.
Their little talks on love were OK, but I couldn't help wishing that the Apostle Paul had been there. (Granted, he didn't come along until later.) I think Paul's summation of love in what we call 1 Corinthians 13 was more succinct and far more powerful than anything Socrates and his buds came up with.
Most everything else was forgettable, or at least I've forgotten it.
It appears to me that Plato was a Marxist. Or rather that Marx was a Platoist.
In "The Republic," he called for children to be taken away from their parents at a very early age to be raised by the state:
"The proper officers will take the offspring of the good parents to the pen or the fold, and there they will deposit them with certain nurses who dwell in a separate quarter; but the offspring of the inferior, or of the better when they chance to be deformed, will be put away in some mysterious, unknown place, as they should be."
Plato may have been a great philosopher, but I call that chilling.
He also argued that philosophers would make the best kings, which is ridiculous. Say your kingdom needed a road. The philosopher-king would want to examine the existential questions surrounding roads. Why do they exist? Where do they go? If a road returns from whence it came, did it really go anyplace?
You'd never get a road built.
"The Republic" is excerpted at length in the volume I read, which also includes complete texts of "Apology," "Crito," "Phaedo" and "Symposium."
Of these, "Symposium" is by far the most entertaining. In it, Socrates gathers with a group of other philosophers and learned men. They had gotten together the night before, and had overindulged. So they agree that this night no one will be required to drink. They send the flute-girls away -- apparently, the presence of flute-girls required everyone to have a rollicking good time. And they agree to spend the evening offering speeches in praise of love.
One member of the group arrives much later, drunk himself and appalled that the others haven't been drinking.
Their little talks on love were OK, but I couldn't help wishing that the Apostle Paul had been there. (Granted, he didn't come along until later.) I think Paul's summation of love in what we call 1 Corinthians 13 was more succinct and far more powerful than anything Socrates and his buds came up with.
Most everything else was forgettable, or at least I've forgotten it.
September 11, 2008
The book I have is an older version translated by Jowett in 1967. It is so old I had to tape it together. It looks like a blue painters tape version with the title put on the spine with a sharpie. Incredible and indispensable, the Dialogues in my version include: apology, crito, phaedo, symposium, and republic. I read another version of the republic to get a better break down of the ideas that it holds, but all together this version was more than sufficient.
December 19, 2023
I could have written a shitpost review about this book but I don't find it appropriate. This book is a bitch to read and there was stuff that made me mad. Despite that there is an inalianable beauty which can be found hidden amongst the lines of text where Socrates dosen't spit straight up bullshit or insult the people he is talking to.
September 3, 2007
Have to read Phaedres for my UH class. Not sure what Phaedres has to do with education yet, but it's challenging my thinking about love... hmmm...
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January 11, 2017Sir Passion
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