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Darkover (Publication Order) #13
Two to Conquer
What forces would operate if there were two objects that were absolutely identical in form and substance? This problem has occupied both workers in magic and the scientists of physics and psychology. It is the pivot of Marion Zimmer Bradley's novel of Darkover during the final flaming days of the Ages of Chaos.
This is the story of the era when the planet of the Bloody Sun was divided into a hundred warring kingdoms and civilization teetered on the edge of oblivion.
It is the story of Bard di Asturien, ambitious soldier-outlaw, and of his opponent, Varzil the Good, who struggled to establish the Compact. And it is also the story of a man from distant Terra named Paul Harrell who was the exact duplicate of Varzil's enemy.
Two to Conquer is a novel of social forces in combat, of the use and misuse of science, of war, of rape, and of witchcraft.
This is the story of the era when the planet of the Bloody Sun was divided into a hundred warring kingdoms and civilization teetered on the edge of oblivion.
It is the story of Bard di Asturien, ambitious soldier-outlaw, and of his opponent, Varzil the Good, who struggled to establish the Compact. And it is also the story of a man from distant Terra named Paul Harrell who was the exact duplicate of Varzil's enemy.
Two to Conquer is a novel of social forces in combat, of the use and misuse of science, of war, of rape, and of witchcraft.
335 pages, Mass Market Paperback
First published June 1, 1980
8 people are currently reading
886 people want to read
About the author
Marion Zimmer Bradley
797 books4,839 followersMarion Eleanor Zimmer Bradley was an American author of fantasy novels such as The Mists of Avalon and the Darkover series, often with a feminist outlook.
Bradley's first published novel-length work was Falcons of Narabedla, first published in the May 1957 issue of Other Worlds. When she was a child, Bradley stated that she enjoyed reading adventure fantasy authors such as Henry Kuttner, Edmond Hamilton, and Leigh Brackett, especially when they wrote about "the glint of strange suns on worlds that never were and never would be." Her first novel and much of her subsequent work show their influence strongly.
Early in her career, writing as Morgan Ives, Miriam Gardner, John Dexter, and Lee Chapman, Marion Zimmer Bradley produced several works outside the speculative fiction genre, including some gay and lesbian pulp fiction novels. For example, I Am a Lesbian was published in 1962. Though relatively tame by today's standards, they were considered pornographic when published, and for a long time she refused to disclose the titles she wrote under these pseudonyms.
Her 1958 story The Planet Savers introduced the planet of Darkover, which became the setting of a popular series by Bradley and other authors. The Darkover milieu may be considered as either fantasy with science fiction overtones or as science fiction with fantasy overtones, as Darkover is a lost earth colony where psi powers developed to an unusual degree. Bradley wrote many Darkover novels by herself, but in her later years collaborated with other authors for publication; her literary collaborators have continued the series since her death.
Bradley took an active role in science-fiction and fantasy fandom, promoting interaction with professional authors and publishers and making several important contributions to the subculture.
For many years, Bradley actively encouraged Darkover fan fiction and reprinted some of it in commercial Darkover anthologies, continuing to encourage submissions from unpublished authors, but this ended after a dispute with a fan over an unpublished Darkover novel of Bradley's that had similarities to some of the fan's stories. As a result, the novel remained unpublished, and Bradley demanded the cessation of all Darkover fan fiction.
Bradley was also the editor of the long-running Sword and Sorceress anthology series, which encouraged submissions of fantasy stories featuring original and non-traditional heroines from young and upcoming authors. Although she particularly encouraged young female authors, she was not averse to including male authors in her anthologies. Mercedes Lackey was just one of many authors who first appeared in the anthologies. She also maintained a large family of writers at her home in Berkeley. Ms Bradley was editing the final Sword and Sorceress manuscript up until the week of her death in September of 1999.
Probably her most famous single novel is The Mists of Avalon. A retelling of the Camelot legend from the point of view of Morgaine and Gwenhwyfar, it grew into a series of books; like the Darkover series, the later novels are written with or by other authors and have continued to appear after Bradley's death.
Her reputation has been posthumously marred by multiple accusations of child sexual abuse by her daughter Moira Greyland, and for allegedly assisting her second husband, convicted child abuser Walter Breen, in sexually abusing multiple unrelated children.
(from Wikipedia)
Bradley's first published novel-length work was Falcons of Narabedla, first published in the May 1957 issue of Other Worlds. When she was a child, Bradley stated that she enjoyed reading adventure fantasy authors such as Henry Kuttner, Edmond Hamilton, and Leigh Brackett, especially when they wrote about "the glint of strange suns on worlds that never were and never would be." Her first novel and much of her subsequent work show their influence strongly.
Early in her career, writing as Morgan Ives, Miriam Gardner, John Dexter, and Lee Chapman, Marion Zimmer Bradley produced several works outside the speculative fiction genre, including some gay and lesbian pulp fiction novels. For example, I Am a Lesbian was published in 1962. Though relatively tame by today's standards, they were considered pornographic when published, and for a long time she refused to disclose the titles she wrote under these pseudonyms.
Her 1958 story The Planet Savers introduced the planet of Darkover, which became the setting of a popular series by Bradley and other authors. The Darkover milieu may be considered as either fantasy with science fiction overtones or as science fiction with fantasy overtones, as Darkover is a lost earth colony where psi powers developed to an unusual degree. Bradley wrote many Darkover novels by herself, but in her later years collaborated with other authors for publication; her literary collaborators have continued the series since her death.
Bradley took an active role in science-fiction and fantasy fandom, promoting interaction with professional authors and publishers and making several important contributions to the subculture.
For many years, Bradley actively encouraged Darkover fan fiction and reprinted some of it in commercial Darkover anthologies, continuing to encourage submissions from unpublished authors, but this ended after a dispute with a fan over an unpublished Darkover novel of Bradley's that had similarities to some of the fan's stories. As a result, the novel remained unpublished, and Bradley demanded the cessation of all Darkover fan fiction.
Bradley was also the editor of the long-running Sword and Sorceress anthology series, which encouraged submissions of fantasy stories featuring original and non-traditional heroines from young and upcoming authors. Although she particularly encouraged young female authors, she was not averse to including male authors in her anthologies. Mercedes Lackey was just one of many authors who first appeared in the anthologies. She also maintained a large family of writers at her home in Berkeley. Ms Bradley was editing the final Sword and Sorceress manuscript up until the week of her death in September of 1999.
Probably her most famous single novel is The Mists of Avalon. A retelling of the Camelot legend from the point of view of Morgaine and Gwenhwyfar, it grew into a series of books; like the Darkover series, the later novels are written with or by other authors and have continued to appear after Bradley's death.
Her reputation has been posthumously marred by multiple accusations of child sexual abuse by her daughter Moira Greyland, and for allegedly assisting her second husband, convicted child abuser Walter Breen, in sexually abusing multiple unrelated children.
(from Wikipedia)
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 73 reviews
January 20, 2011
Implausible technology. Unsympathetic characters. Unhealthy relationships.
Bradley takes an original twist on the doppelganger concept -- in her universe there really are two identical versions of every individual (don't ask me how people on Darkover know this when their planet is isolated and low-tech). And what could be more useful to a ruthless conqueror than another him to direct his forces and, in this case, help kidnap the unfortunate maiden he is obsessed with?
Realistically, Bradley is right in portraying a person this ambitious and unscrupulous as Not a Nice Guy. The problem as always with this type of realism is that it results in me not caring what happens to him and not really wanting to read about the nasty things he does to others.
Also, if I ever spend time with my doppelganger, we are so not having a threesome.
Bradley takes an original twist on the doppelganger concept -- in her universe there really are two identical versions of every individual (don't ask me how people on Darkover know this when their planet is isolated and low-tech). And what could be more useful to a ruthless conqueror than another him to direct his forces and, in this case, help kidnap the unfortunate maiden he is obsessed with?
Realistically, Bradley is right in portraying a person this ambitious and unscrupulous as Not a Nice Guy. The problem as always with this type of realism is that it results in me not caring what happens to him and not really wanting to read about the nasty things he does to others.
Also, if I ever spend time with my doppelganger, we are so not having a threesome.
September 16, 2024
Two to Conquer is a thrillingly martial adventure about a medieval warrior's rise & fall & rise again during an era of perpetual upheaval and war on the planet Darkover. it is also a hyperventilating psychosexual case study of a deluded rapist who uses his psychic powers to control the bodies of women, while ruining the lives of everyone who crosses his path due to his deep insecurities. that's a lot. and then two-thirds of the way through, it brings in the story of this asshole's 'twin' who has been transported from across the galaxy to be a pawn in a constantly shifting game of thrones. suddenly we have two giant assholes as protagonists, which is also a lot. welcome to mid-period Darkover, the best period in this often very strange science fantasy series.
the main drawback was having to live in the head of an incredibly awful person for most of the novel, and then having a second awful person added to the mix. neither the warrior nor his twin are complete villains, they have their admirable moments, but they were still highly unpleasant to deal with much of the time. a more minor drawback is the often clunky or histrionic dialogue, which is par for the course with many genre novels of this time period. fortunately the novel is a complex one, with a lot of ideas about gender, sexuality, and the price of war on its mind; it was overall an absorbing and memorable experience. Darkover is a fascinating place. and I had to admire the story's grim relentlessness in showing how toxic the perspective of a lifelong misogynist and gender essentialist can be. the eventual awakening and then redemption of our antiheroes was satisfying and the ending was enjoyably sentimental. for a glass-half-full reader like me, it was nice that such a dark saga ended with some light, at long last.
3.5 stars
the main drawback was having to live in the head of an incredibly awful person for most of the novel, and then having a second awful person added to the mix. neither the warrior nor his twin are complete villains, they have their admirable moments, but they were still highly unpleasant to deal with much of the time. a more minor drawback is the often clunky or histrionic dialogue, which is par for the course with many genre novels of this time period. fortunately the novel is a complex one, with a lot of ideas about gender, sexuality, and the price of war on its mind; it was overall an absorbing and memorable experience. Darkover is a fascinating place. and I had to admire the story's grim relentlessness in showing how toxic the perspective of a lifelong misogynist and gender essentialist can be. the eventual awakening and then redemption of our antiheroes was satisfying and the ending was enjoyably sentimental. for a glass-half-full reader like me, it was nice that such a dark saga ended with some light, at long last.
3.5 stars
February 19, 2024
Bard di Asturien, neveu du roi, espère épouser la fille de ce dernier. Sa nature violente le pousse cependant à commettre un meurtre et il se voit exilé sous peine de mort. Lors de son retour après le décès du roi, une guerre civile se profile pour l'obtention du trône.
Premier contact avec une autre "époque" de Ténébreuse et le résultat s'avère beaucoup moins concluant que pour les deux premiers tomes. L'histoire n'est pourtant pas inintéressante et le prologue met d'emblée une attente en introduisant un élément de science-fiction dans un monde devenu quasiment médiéval. J'ai été très curieux de voir comment ce prologue sous forme de flash-forward allait faire évoluer une intrigue qui me plaisait bien par ailleurs.
Malheureusement, je ne conseillerai pas spécialement Le Loup des Kilghard pour deux grandes raisons. La première est que, si l'histoire est intéressante, je l'ai trouvée non terminée et je déteste rester autant sur ma faim. Le deuxième écueil, le plus important selon moi, réside dans les deux personnages principaux, Bard et Paul. Les deux sont des violeurs et criminels de la pire espèce. S'il ne m'est pas inaccoutumé de suivre des ordures (coucou Gagner la guerre !), il faut derrière au choix que le roman rende ces personnages intéressants ou bien qu'une juste rétribution vienne en guise de châtiment. Le problème ici est que l'on suit des personnes imbuvables et que l'autrice tente de nous les faire prendre en pitié, par exemple Paul, qui nous est présenté sous un jour fort sympathique, limite en héros parfois, avec son histoire d'amour alors que le type est un violeur et criminel multirécidiviste. J'ai peut-être eu justement moins de mal avec Bard qui est une ordure tout du long du roman, ce qui est plus cohérent et me fait moins me sentir mal quant aux sentiments que l'on attend de moi envers lui.
Pour conclure, si Le Loup des Kilghard propose une intrigue assez intéressante, sa conclusion et ses personnages très clivants en ont fait une lecture beaucoup moins intéressante que les autres tomes lus jusqu'à présent concernant ce cycle !
Premier contact avec une autre "époque" de Ténébreuse et le résultat s'avère beaucoup moins concluant que pour les deux premiers tomes. L'histoire n'est pourtant pas inintéressante et le prologue met d'emblée une attente en introduisant un élément de science-fiction dans un monde devenu quasiment médiéval. J'ai été très curieux de voir comment ce prologue sous forme de flash-forward allait faire évoluer une intrigue qui me plaisait bien par ailleurs.
Malheureusement, je ne conseillerai pas spécialement Le Loup des Kilghard pour deux grandes raisons. La première est que, si l'histoire est intéressante, je l'ai trouvée non terminée et je déteste rester autant sur ma faim. Le deuxième écueil, le plus important selon moi, réside dans les deux personnages principaux, Bard et Paul. Les deux sont des violeurs et criminels de la pire espèce. S'il ne m'est pas inaccoutumé de suivre des ordures (coucou Gagner la guerre !), il faut derrière au choix que le roman rende ces personnages intéressants ou bien qu'une juste rétribution vienne en guise de châtiment. Le problème ici est que l'on suit des personnes imbuvables et que l'autrice tente de nous les faire prendre en pitié, par exemple Paul, qui nous est présenté sous un jour fort sympathique, limite en héros parfois, avec son histoire d'amour alors que le type est un violeur et criminel multirécidiviste. J'ai peut-être eu justement moins de mal avec Bard qui est une ordure tout du long du roman, ce qui est plus cohérent et me fait moins me sentir mal quant aux sentiments que l'on attend de moi envers lui.
Pour conclure, si Le Loup des Kilghard propose une intrigue assez intéressante, sa conclusion et ses personnages très clivants en ont fait une lecture beaucoup moins intéressante que les autres tomes lus jusqu'à présent concernant ce cycle !
April 6, 2009
Continuing my Bradley kick.
This is a much superior novel to the first two I reviewed. It's set prior to the Winds of Darkover and the Planet Wreckers. It's pretty early chronologically in Darkover's "history," although a more recent in terms of when it was written. It's well before "recontact," when humans rediscover Darkover after thousands of years, and well before the period when the Hasturs set up the "comyn," which are an attempt to establish rules of warfare and telepathy use to prevent wholesale destruction.
This is largely the tale of Bard, the illegitimate son of the a prince whose older brother is King. He is, despite his prowess in warfare, not particularly likeable. Although we see his insecurities, and understand that the sense of being a "bastard" in a feudal society which will not acknowledge his birth is what drives him, we see that his rashness and quickness to anger cause him to hurt those who care for him and do him harm. He is also one of those men who think that men "help" women by giving them what they "want,"--eg raping them, and worse, he has a latent telepathic gift (one he doesn't know he has) that lets him control women, making them think they want to be with him and rendering them pliant (sort of a telepathic date rape drug).
This brutality to women is only part of his character, and, although Bradley doesn't underplay it, she nonetheless shows his good qualities, too. Bravery, absolute loyalty to his father and to his brother, the "legitimate" son, and, above all, awareness of his own limits--he does not wish to be a king or to rule, but to be accepted as part of the family and culture.
But one of the interesting "twists" is that it is this telepethy which ultimately turns on him, and gives Bard the ability to truly KNOW what the women he has raped have gone through. When he is given a full accounting of the horror he has inflicted, he is paralyzed by guilt. A medieval society puts very few strictures on the behavior of a nobleman's son--Bard is in no "legal" trouble--but he wants to be punished, but society offers no recourse to the women he has harmed. He considers suicide, but won't allow himself a quick release from his conscience, and so he must find ways to try and atone for his past.
It's a well-written tale of warfare and political intrigue and scheming. It's also--and this is the place where the "two to conquer" come in--the tale of another man, Paul, who is an Earther and more of less Bard's double. Paul's past is no less violent than Bard's, but he comes from a society that has arrested and imprisoned him for his crimes.
It's a very thoughtful story. It covers lots of uncomfortable issues and reveals both the brutality, civility, and, occassionally, wisdom one can find in a feudal culture.
This is a much superior novel to the first two I reviewed. It's set prior to the Winds of Darkover and the Planet Wreckers. It's pretty early chronologically in Darkover's "history," although a more recent in terms of when it was written. It's well before "recontact," when humans rediscover Darkover after thousands of years, and well before the period when the Hasturs set up the "comyn," which are an attempt to establish rules of warfare and telepathy use to prevent wholesale destruction.
This is largely the tale of Bard, the illegitimate son of the a prince whose older brother is King. He is, despite his prowess in warfare, not particularly likeable. Although we see his insecurities, and understand that the sense of being a "bastard" in a feudal society which will not acknowledge his birth is what drives him, we see that his rashness and quickness to anger cause him to hurt those who care for him and do him harm. He is also one of those men who think that men "help" women by giving them what they "want,"--eg raping them, and worse, he has a latent telepathic gift (one he doesn't know he has) that lets him control women, making them think they want to be with him and rendering them pliant (sort of a telepathic date rape drug).
This brutality to women is only part of his character, and, although Bradley doesn't underplay it, she nonetheless shows his good qualities, too. Bravery, absolute loyalty to his father and to his brother, the "legitimate" son, and, above all, awareness of his own limits--he does not wish to be a king or to rule, but to be accepted as part of the family and culture.
But one of the interesting "twists" is that it is this telepethy which ultimately turns on him, and gives Bard the ability to truly KNOW what the women he has raped have gone through. When he is given a full accounting of the horror he has inflicted, he is paralyzed by guilt. A medieval society puts very few strictures on the behavior of a nobleman's son--Bard is in no "legal" trouble--but he wants to be punished, but society offers no recourse to the women he has harmed. He considers suicide, but won't allow himself a quick release from his conscience, and so he must find ways to try and atone for his past.
It's a well-written tale of warfare and political intrigue and scheming. It's also--and this is the place where the "two to conquer" come in--the tale of another man, Paul, who is an Earther and more of less Bard's double. Paul's past is no less violent than Bard's, but he comes from a society that has arrested and imprisoned him for his crimes.
It's a very thoughtful story. It covers lots of uncomfortable issues and reveals both the brutality, civility, and, occassionally, wisdom one can find in a feudal culture.
May 18, 2020
In my ongoing quest to reread books that I enjoyed in my childhood, I bring you, Marion Zimmer Bradley.
No one can question Ms. Bradley's willingness to deliver a moral lesson with the action, and when younger, those broad strokes seemed subtle to me. I still appreciate them, and the worldbuilding of Darkover is so robust that I think people still write Darkover stories. I always admired that MZB let Darkover be open to other writers, and encouraged them.
I think, I still have some books left, and I now have exceeded the 40 days of a normal quarantine...here in the CA Bay Area.
No one can question Ms. Bradley's willingness to deliver a moral lesson with the action, and when younger, those broad strokes seemed subtle to me. I still appreciate them, and the worldbuilding of Darkover is so robust that I think people still write Darkover stories. I always admired that MZB let Darkover be open to other writers, and encouraged them.
I think, I still have some books left, and I now have exceeded the 40 days of a normal quarantine...here in the CA Bay Area.
April 21, 2010
I'm a fan of Marion Zimmer Bradley, but my affection for her rests not on the Avalon books, which I didn't care for, but her Darkover series. Darkover is a "lost colony" of Earth that falls back into a medieval society. Ruled by a psychically gifted aristocracy, after centuries it's rediscovered by a star-spanning high-tech human federation, giving the series a feel of both science fiction and fantasy. Most books focus on the clash between the two cultures. This is no exception, even though set before the time of rediscovery during the era of the "Hundred Kingdoms." Terran Paul Harrell, a doppelganger of Bard di Asturien, is transported to Darkover and right into his war.
Although some of the Darkover books are loosely connected, having characters in common, they were written to be read independently and were written out of sequence. This makes it difficult without a guide to know what story to start with. The books published early are before MZB came into her own as a writer. The ones published after her stroke in 1989 are at the best collaborations; more fanfic of the original than continuations. Two to Conquer was published in 1980, when MZB's powers were at it's height. However, even though Two to Conquer is a very entertaining book, with swashbuckling adventure and romance, I wouldn't count it among the best of the Darkover books. (Although it's far from one of the weakest.) However, I'd suggest the (1979 version) of The Bloody Sun or The Spell Sword and its sequel The Forbidden Tower or The Shattered Chain (my own introduction) or Heritage of Hastur as better starting places. The Darkover series as a whole features strong female characters, but it has enough swashbuckling adventure to draw the male of the species, and indeed this series was recommended to me by a guy (when we were in high school!)
Although some of the Darkover books are loosely connected, having characters in common, they were written to be read independently and were written out of sequence. This makes it difficult without a guide to know what story to start with. The books published early are before MZB came into her own as a writer. The ones published after her stroke in 1989 are at the best collaborations; more fanfic of the original than continuations. Two to Conquer was published in 1980, when MZB's powers were at it's height. However, even though Two to Conquer is a very entertaining book, with swashbuckling adventure and romance, I wouldn't count it among the best of the Darkover books. (Although it's far from one of the weakest.) However, I'd suggest the (1979 version) of The Bloody Sun or The Spell Sword and its sequel The Forbidden Tower or The Shattered Chain (my own introduction) or Heritage of Hastur as better starting places. The Darkover series as a whole features strong female characters, but it has enough swashbuckling adventure to draw the male of the species, and indeed this series was recommended to me by a guy (when we were in high school!)
June 22, 2015
So this is basically Two to Conquer (do not read further if you don't want to read abt talk of rape):
"So there's this guy, and he psychically forces women to have sex with him, but he got hit with a telepathic strike that makes him feel how the women he's raped felt while he was doing it, and now he's really sorry and also he did something heroic. Root for him! He's the protagonist!"
Haha. How about no.
EDIT: Um. In light of what we've learned about Bradley and her husband, this book becomes...significantly more disturbing.
"So there's this guy, and he psychically forces women to have sex with him, but he got hit with a telepathic strike that makes him feel how the women he's raped felt while he was doing it, and now he's really sorry and also he did something heroic. Root for him! He's the protagonist!"
Haha. How about no.
EDIT: Um. In light of what we've learned about Bradley and her husband, this book becomes...significantly more disturbing.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
November 17, 2016
I remembered vaguely this history from my past reading. I remember they were able to have a human on Darkover before the rediscovery. I didn't remember anything more.
I loved this book. I know that Bard was a bad man. And Paul was no better than his doppelganger. But they story is really good and it describes another piece of Darkover history and tradition, like the Renunciates, born between the union of Sisters of the Sword and priestesses of Avarra.
This book is very good book, even if there is rape (but the scenes are mercifully short).
I loved this book. I know that Bard was a bad man. And Paul was no better than his doppelganger. But they story is really good and it describes another piece of Darkover history and tradition, like the Renunciates, born between the union of Sisters of the Sword and priestesses of Avarra.
This book is very good book, even if there is rape (but the scenes are mercifully short).
December 21, 2008
This is one of my favorite Darkover novels because Bradley is taking a risk. The two male leads are not "good men" in the beginning of the book. The book is about how society makes us, but also about how we can redeem ourselves. It is also one of the few books that has a "beauty and the beast" role reversal.
December 6, 2013
The flat 'good girls'/'bad boys' characters did spoil part of my reading pleasure. With all due respect to MZB who invented this fascinating world , and the time frame some of the darkover books were written in. Although this part is from the early eighties ...
February 12, 2011
Didn't really care for this one. It's basically about a serial rapist. I'm not sure I thought he got his in the end, though Bradley was clearly trying for redemption. Ugh.
February 12, 2018
Non mi è piaciuto e, lo ammetto, avevo aspettative altissime. Non capisco se sono io che non riesco a digerire questa autrice o sono solo stata sfortunata. La storia ha un bel tema di fondo, che però non si sviluppa mai appieno, completando il suo ciclo.
Bard come protagonista sarebbe stato perfetto se approfondito di più, il suo è il tema numero uno e ideale per un romanzo su un antieroe che non vuole regnare, ma a cui piace fare la guerra, scervellarsi di strategia e non preoccuparsi troppo delle conseguenze, la sua evoluzione, però, fa acqua da tutte le parti.
Il tema due, il rapporto difficile di amicizia fraterna tra uomini è appena sfiorato e poi lasciato andare con poco approfondimento. Sprecato.
Il tema dell'emancipazione femminile in un mondo medievale come Darkover è sviluppato in modo zoppicante: sebbene i concetti che esprimono siano forti e importanti, la loro prospettiva è confusa, persa in un mare di narrazione inutile.
La parte migliore è stato intravvedere in loro che sono donne pragmatiche e un po' fataliste (della serie: succede quel che succede e si deve andare avanti) che si rialzano anche dopo enormi cadute e questo è ammirevole, ma si perde in discorsi di filosofia ovvia a tutti i livelli che non aggiunge niente alla narrazione. Purtroppo.
Infine questo "balzo" dell'inutile Paul da Chissaddove a Darkover... beh, ci cresceva come l'acqua nel vino servito a merenda insieme ai cavoli. Aggiunge carne al fuoco, non dà contributo a parte un discretamente inutile happy ending a Melisendra e, oltretutto, è poco approfondito sia come personaggio (confesso di averlo odiato) che come sviluppo.
La parte più bella, secondo me, sono stati gli intrallazzi politici.
Forse anche l'autrice non sapeva dove andare a parare: c'è il fantasy, la fantascienza, il romance e la fantapolitica mescolati in un guazzabuglio confuso.
Bard come protagonista sarebbe stato perfetto se approfondito di più, il suo è il tema numero uno e ideale per un romanzo su un antieroe che non vuole regnare, ma a cui piace fare la guerra, scervellarsi di strategia e non preoccuparsi troppo delle conseguenze, la sua evoluzione, però, fa acqua da tutte le parti.
Il tema due, il rapporto difficile di amicizia fraterna tra uomini è appena sfiorato e poi lasciato andare con poco approfondimento. Sprecato.
Il tema dell'emancipazione femminile in un mondo medievale come Darkover è sviluppato in modo zoppicante: sebbene i concetti che esprimono siano forti e importanti, la loro prospettiva è confusa, persa in un mare di narrazione inutile.
La parte migliore è stato intravvedere in loro che sono donne pragmatiche e un po' fataliste (della serie: succede quel che succede e si deve andare avanti) che si rialzano anche dopo enormi cadute e questo è ammirevole, ma si perde in discorsi di filosofia ovvia a tutti i livelli che non aggiunge niente alla narrazione. Purtroppo.
Infine questo "balzo" dell'inutile Paul da Chissaddove a Darkover... beh, ci cresceva come l'acqua nel vino servito a merenda insieme ai cavoli. Aggiunge carne al fuoco, non dà contributo a parte un discretamente inutile happy ending a Melisendra e, oltretutto, è poco approfondito sia come personaggio (confesso di averlo odiato) che come sviluppo.
La parte più bella, secondo me, sono stati gli intrallazzi politici.
Forse anche l'autrice non sapeva dove andare a parare: c'è il fantasy, la fantascienza, il romance e la fantapolitica mescolati in un guazzabuglio confuso.
May 31, 2021
Un bignami dei luoghi comuni del maschilismo più retrivo che perora la sussidiarietà delle donne agli uomini. Il fatto che sia un romanzo fantasy non aiuta e non solleva dalla sensazione di orticaria per tanto ripetersi e concentrarsi di stereotipi. Due personagggi odiosi e un finale stile favola in cui i cattivi si "pentono". Alla fine un po' troppo, anche per un mondo ricaduto nel "medioevo".
Read
November 14, 2011"STOP!"
It was like a clarion call in my head. I was about 15 pages into this book, having absorbed the fact that at least one of the main characters was going to be a raping, murdering convict, and it was like someone just came up behind me and said "You don't have to read it anymore, you know."
"Really?" I said. "I have all the books right here on the table, after all, and surely there's a reason they're so popular..."
"No," said the voice. "Sometimes an author just strikes it lucky for no good reason, and coasts for the rest of their life producing fourth-rate pap. If you haven't found the answer to her popularity after reading five omnibus editions of Marion Zimmer Bradley, then does it really make sense to assume that you just haven't hit the right book yet? Or does it make sense to think that the ah-hah moment you're searching for never existed in the first place?"
"But even if I don't read this horrible book about the murdering rapist, I have those three other omnibuses as well.. the Clingfilm ones, or whatever the hell they're called. Shouldn't I try them?"
Sighing, the voice said "No, you really shouldn't. Largely because you are so far gone that you're having imaginary conversations with disembodied voices, and that is not a good sign. You read about ten books in this accursed series, and they're not good for your mental health. I think it's time you queue up some 'Vampire Diaries' on Netflix, make some cocoa, and go to bed early."
...and that is how I decided to save myself, and never read Darkover novels again.
It was like a clarion call in my head. I was about 15 pages into this book, having absorbed the fact that at least one of the main characters was going to be a raping, murdering convict, and it was like someone just came up behind me and said "You don't have to read it anymore, you know."
"Really?" I said. "I have all the books right here on the table, after all, and surely there's a reason they're so popular..."
"No," said the voice. "Sometimes an author just strikes it lucky for no good reason, and coasts for the rest of their life producing fourth-rate pap. If you haven't found the answer to her popularity after reading five omnibus editions of Marion Zimmer Bradley, then does it really make sense to assume that you just haven't hit the right book yet? Or does it make sense to think that the ah-hah moment you're searching for never existed in the first place?"
"But even if I don't read this horrible book about the murdering rapist, I have those three other omnibuses as well.. the Clingfilm ones, or whatever the hell they're called. Shouldn't I try them?"
Sighing, the voice said "No, you really shouldn't. Largely because you are so far gone that you're having imaginary conversations with disembodied voices, and that is not a good sign. You read about ten books in this accursed series, and they're not good for your mental health. I think it's time you queue up some 'Vampire Diaries' on Netflix, make some cocoa, and go to bed early."
...and that is how I decided to save myself, and never read Darkover novels again.
December 29, 2010
A Darkover novel set in the Ages of Chaos. Bard and his father are determined to conquer as much as they can grasp, but even the military genius of Bard can't handle a war with as many fronts as they anticipate. Using forgotten magic they pull in from the Federated Worlds an exact duplicate of Bard to lead part of their war. Are Paul and Bard so alike that they must kill each other in the end?
TWO TO CONQUER is about personal evolution. Bard is so spoiled by his mastery and hatred of women that he earns every bit of the very hard lesson that is coming to him. The result is satisfying. I know of people who hate Bard and Paul so much that they they can't stand this book, but the characters and their world live and grow. This is where Varzil the Good leads Darkover out of Chaos.
TWO TO CONQUER is about personal evolution. Bard is so spoiled by his mastery and hatred of women that he earns every bit of the very hard lesson that is coming to him. The result is satisfying. I know of people who hate Bard and Paul so much that they they can't stand this book, but the characters and their world live and grow. This is where Varzil the Good leads Darkover out of Chaos.
October 19, 2011
There is a lot of rape in this book, plus a really unlikable, misogynistic main character (who unbelievably still has women falling for him), which makes this book a rather unpleasant read. I also thought the doppelganger idea rang false and unrealistic - the beauty of being human is that we are all unique.
If I hadn't been reading this on vacation, with few other books available to me, I would have stopped short. I did, however, like how it ended.
If I hadn't been reading this on vacation, with few other books available to me, I would have stopped short. I did, however, like how it ended.
September 20, 2020
Ugh, sitting in the mind of someone with an insecurity issue, for chapters on end. This one goes on the donate pile.
And to make matters worse, the opening hints at an alternate universe ?clone? ?twin? and I gave up before the author ever got back to it.
And to make matters worse, the opening hints at an alternate universe ?clone? ?twin? and I gave up before the author ever got back to it.
February 10, 2013
Another Darkover book. Objectively, they are really not very good books, but I can't help but devour them whenever I find them in secondhand bookstores. I love getting lost in the implausible, imaginary world.
Read
May 8, 2014The concept of a Cheryllis double is an interesting one, and would repay thoughtful examination. This ain't it. The assumption seems to be that identity in physical characteristics (down to birthmarks) would result in identity in character, no matter what the circumstances of rearing and adult life. This is not only provably false (cf Stephen Jay Gould's discussion of the singular personalities of Chang and Eng Bunker, the original 'Siamese Twins'), it's implausible on the face of it. And the characters are so obnoxious that even the makeovers they undergo at the hands of the women they so spitefully use are only moderately successful. There's one point in which the Earth-human (actually a native of the Alpha colony) comments that it's always been death for men to spy on women's mysteries, which is why all civilized societies have banned women's mysteries. This is the same guy who was pathetically and helplessly rebellious against his own 'civilized' society, for what he perceived were conspiracies against males.
Some of the most cartoonishly realized parts of the book are the descriptions of Alphan society from the point of view of the self-loathing, misogynistic, and misanthropic Paul Harrel. Even allowing for Harrel's jaded mistakes, the described society is completely inconsistent. The 'rebels' are brought down by armed police officers (in a nonviolent society, why are there police officers at all? And armed, yet?). There's no real discussion of what Rehabilitation involves, but the fact that it exists at all implies that the society is not as uniform as Harrell thinks. Why would there be need to 'rehabilitate' those who'd been properly habilitated in the FIRST place? And a society that regards itself as 'humane' when it relegates its citizens to a living death (not physically painful, but does that matter?) on the assumption that if they're guilty it's no more than they deserve, and if they're innocent, there's 'no harm done', because they can be revived (with what compensation for their lost time? And what compensation would be adequate? One way or another, they lose time with their families, their hobbies, their vocations...and irretrievably) is an unintegrated society. At the very least, they haven't finished their own humanization--but Harrel isn't capable of acting as a legitimate critic, because it's evident that he hasn't done any real analysis. He seems to have no historical knowledge, nor any real understanding of what he's trying to achieve.
A useful comparison would be James White's description of Terrestrial society during the time of the Galactic Federation in Occupation: Warrior. The character Dermod romanticizes warfare, and he DOES have a fairly thorough knowledge of history (both of Earth and of other worlds). He's less thoroughly unpleasant than Paul Harrell, and he is capable of understanding his real experiences with what amount to fully enacted war games (with real deaths and injuries among the players). HIS rehabilitation is largely self-generated (though its precursors are set up by the 'Guard'), and he's a more
fully-developed character than the incurious (at least at first) Paul Harrell, who seems to have little capacity for introspection, and argues that he's more 'real' than his Alphan contemporaries because he's apparently taken no hand in his own construction.
Despite its serious flaws, there are some good elements in this book. There are children, for one thing. Despite the obsession of Darkovan societies with children, very few of them actually have any presence in the books. They tend to be offstage shadows, without any voice or circulatory systems. This book has several speaking children.
Then there are elaborations of things like the first germs of the Compact that plays such a big part in (chronologically) later books. Varzil the good is more than a ghost in this story--he's a human man with passions and comforts and greying hair. And there are details of the life of the priestesses of Avarra before they emerged from the Isle of Silence to merge with the Sisterhood of The Sword and become the Free Amazons (Bard di Asturien's contempt for holy virgins and his fear of their sorceries informs his view of wetlands, btw. Since when do frogs 'complain'?). And there's a mention of the archives of the monastery at Nevarsin--so evidently Father Valentine did not entirely collude with the bookburners of the original shipwreck. It's not a lot of use, however, if those histories are left to molder unread in archives. Darkovan society has evidently taken on itself the collective amnesia of the colonialist excuse for 'reforming primitive societies'--'since time immemorial'. Though there are some characters who refuse to be dragged any further than is convenient (several say that their ancestors didn't consult THEM), most don't actually try to research what DID happen.
The arguments for and against the Compact are made by fleshed out characters, but they tend to assume that other people are not reflective or sensible at any time. In Religio Medici Thomas Browne argues that 'we vainly accuse the fury of guns'; or, in this case, of aircars and clingfire. Warfare under the Compact may not include such horrors as bonewater dust and the burning of Hali Tower. But it's very far from the romanticized picture of honorable duels between champions that people try to believe in. As Richard Leakey once pointed out, warfare is not about human aggression. Truly aggressive people (like the Kilghard Wolf--now Darkover has WOLVES, too?), are very bad at warfare, which is a cooperative act, by definition. So why NOT cooperate on coming up with nonviolent resolutions for disputes? Varzil might not have gone far enough. Characters like Paul Harrell and Bard di Asturien who've outlived their violent phase tend to castigate themselves as weaklings for abandoning violence. At one point Bard, forced into laran-fueled empathy with others (and himself) wonders why he's so prone to tears, and fears that once started, he'll never be able to stop. Of COURSE he'll be able to stop. The floodgates have been opened, and the reservoir of tears he's dammed up for so long is gushing out. But in the end, the river will resume its normal flow, and he will cry when there's need, and not store up the stress and tears to poison his body and soul. If he hadn't built that dam in the FIRST place, maybe he might not have become so violent.
One minor note--Bradley was very fond of music, so it's not surprising that any gathering is subject to 'music breaking out' (as my uncle used to say). But I hadn't realized that there was also a strong tendency to storytelling around the campfire until this book.
Another thing that's left unresolved is, what happened to the Shire of Marenji? The land, as described, was a peaceful, unarmed, wealthy small nation (ala Monaco or Costa Rica). Armies passed across it, bought supplies, and went on. The Marenji traded with their neighbors, fought with nobody, and resented very strongly being taken over by Asturian forces. So what became of them? Come to that, how did they live before? After alien militias were quartered on them, armies would have to FIGHT through Marenji, destroying and killing as they went, and others would no doubt be killed or despoiled by 'friendly fire'--and then there's the costs of upkeep for the alien forces the Marenji neither wanted or needed. In the US Constitution's Bill of Rights, one of the less-discussed amendments is the 3rd Amendment, which forbids the government from quartering troops in private houses. This Amendment was put in place by people who still had vivid memories of just such abuses as were visited on Marenji. Marenji just disappears from the story later, and is only mentioned once (in passing) toward the end. It would have been nice to know how they fared afterward.
Rereading the book as part of a review of the entire series brings out more problems with chronology. The entry calls this the seventh in the Darkover series. Either I've missed several books, or I don't understand the enumeration system, because I make it about fourth in the series. I don't think I warned sufficiently in the first review that this is a book about a serial rapist, whose redemption is more than a little scarifying. His double has a somewhat easier transformation--which puzzles him. At more than one point Paul Harrell argues that women are for one thing ONLY: yet there's little discussion of what he thinks that one thing is. Reproduction? Not hardly, since he never seems to think that sex will result in children. Sex? But as several Darkovans comment, heterosexual sex is hardly a basis for the creation of a separate category of humans. So what, then?
Some of the most cartoonishly realized parts of the book are the descriptions of Alphan society from the point of view of the self-loathing, misogynistic, and misanthropic Paul Harrel. Even allowing for Harrel's jaded mistakes, the described society is completely inconsistent. The 'rebels' are brought down by armed police officers (in a nonviolent society, why are there police officers at all? And armed, yet?). There's no real discussion of what Rehabilitation involves, but the fact that it exists at all implies that the society is not as uniform as Harrell thinks. Why would there be need to 'rehabilitate' those who'd been properly habilitated in the FIRST place? And a society that regards itself as 'humane' when it relegates its citizens to a living death (not physically painful, but does that matter?) on the assumption that if they're guilty it's no more than they deserve, and if they're innocent, there's 'no harm done', because they can be revived (with what compensation for their lost time? And what compensation would be adequate? One way or another, they lose time with their families, their hobbies, their vocations...and irretrievably) is an unintegrated society. At the very least, they haven't finished their own humanization--but Harrel isn't capable of acting as a legitimate critic, because it's evident that he hasn't done any real analysis. He seems to have no historical knowledge, nor any real understanding of what he's trying to achieve.
A useful comparison would be James White's description of Terrestrial society during the time of the Galactic Federation in Occupation: Warrior. The character Dermod romanticizes warfare, and he DOES have a fairly thorough knowledge of history (both of Earth and of other worlds). He's less thoroughly unpleasant than Paul Harrell, and he is capable of understanding his real experiences with what amount to fully enacted war games (with real deaths and injuries among the players). HIS rehabilitation is largely self-generated (though its precursors are set up by the 'Guard'), and he's a more
fully-developed character than the incurious (at least at first) Paul Harrell, who seems to have little capacity for introspection, and argues that he's more 'real' than his Alphan contemporaries because he's apparently taken no hand in his own construction.
Despite its serious flaws, there are some good elements in this book. There are children, for one thing. Despite the obsession of Darkovan societies with children, very few of them actually have any presence in the books. They tend to be offstage shadows, without any voice or circulatory systems. This book has several speaking children.
Then there are elaborations of things like the first germs of the Compact that plays such a big part in (chronologically) later books. Varzil the good is more than a ghost in this story--he's a human man with passions and comforts and greying hair. And there are details of the life of the priestesses of Avarra before they emerged from the Isle of Silence to merge with the Sisterhood of The Sword and become the Free Amazons (Bard di Asturien's contempt for holy virgins and his fear of their sorceries informs his view of wetlands, btw. Since when do frogs 'complain'?). And there's a mention of the archives of the monastery at Nevarsin--so evidently Father Valentine did not entirely collude with the bookburners of the original shipwreck. It's not a lot of use, however, if those histories are left to molder unread in archives. Darkovan society has evidently taken on itself the collective amnesia of the colonialist excuse for 'reforming primitive societies'--'since time immemorial'. Though there are some characters who refuse to be dragged any further than is convenient (several say that their ancestors didn't consult THEM), most don't actually try to research what DID happen.
The arguments for and against the Compact are made by fleshed out characters, but they tend to assume that other people are not reflective or sensible at any time. In Religio Medici Thomas Browne argues that 'we vainly accuse the fury of guns'; or, in this case, of aircars and clingfire. Warfare under the Compact may not include such horrors as bonewater dust and the burning of Hali Tower. But it's very far from the romanticized picture of honorable duels between champions that people try to believe in. As Richard Leakey once pointed out, warfare is not about human aggression. Truly aggressive people (like the Kilghard Wolf--now Darkover has WOLVES, too?), are very bad at warfare, which is a cooperative act, by definition. So why NOT cooperate on coming up with nonviolent resolutions for disputes? Varzil might not have gone far enough. Characters like Paul Harrell and Bard di Asturien who've outlived their violent phase tend to castigate themselves as weaklings for abandoning violence. At one point Bard, forced into laran-fueled empathy with others (and himself) wonders why he's so prone to tears, and fears that once started, he'll never be able to stop. Of COURSE he'll be able to stop. The floodgates have been opened, and the reservoir of tears he's dammed up for so long is gushing out. But in the end, the river will resume its normal flow, and he will cry when there's need, and not store up the stress and tears to poison his body and soul. If he hadn't built that dam in the FIRST place, maybe he might not have become so violent.
One minor note--Bradley was very fond of music, so it's not surprising that any gathering is subject to 'music breaking out' (as my uncle used to say). But I hadn't realized that there was also a strong tendency to storytelling around the campfire until this book.
Another thing that's left unresolved is, what happened to the Shire of Marenji? The land, as described, was a peaceful, unarmed, wealthy small nation (ala Monaco or Costa Rica). Armies passed across it, bought supplies, and went on. The Marenji traded with their neighbors, fought with nobody, and resented very strongly being taken over by Asturian forces. So what became of them? Come to that, how did they live before? After alien militias were quartered on them, armies would have to FIGHT through Marenji, destroying and killing as they went, and others would no doubt be killed or despoiled by 'friendly fire'--and then there's the costs of upkeep for the alien forces the Marenji neither wanted or needed. In the US Constitution's Bill of Rights, one of the less-discussed amendments is the 3rd Amendment, which forbids the government from quartering troops in private houses. This Amendment was put in place by people who still had vivid memories of just such abuses as were visited on Marenji. Marenji just disappears from the story later, and is only mentioned once (in passing) toward the end. It would have been nice to know how they fared afterward.
Rereading the book as part of a review of the entire series brings out more problems with chronology. The entry calls this the seventh in the Darkover series. Either I've missed several books, or I don't understand the enumeration system, because I make it about fourth in the series. I don't think I warned sufficiently in the first review that this is a book about a serial rapist, whose redemption is more than a little scarifying. His double has a somewhat easier transformation--which puzzles him. At more than one point Paul Harrell argues that women are for one thing ONLY: yet there's little discussion of what he thinks that one thing is. Reproduction? Not hardly, since he never seems to think that sex will result in children. Sex? But as several Darkovans comment, heterosexual sex is hardly a basis for the creation of a separate category of humans. So what, then?
February 4, 2021
This Darkover novel tells a complete story and could stand alone. It is one of the stories that fills in some of Darkover's past at the time leading up to the Compact. This book can probably be read at any point in the series.
This could have been a great story. Unfortunately I would definitely recommend against reading it, although at the beginning of the third decade of the third Millenia, this book appears in some ways to be no worse that much of the genre today.
What offends me?
I literally lost track of how many rapes there were by main characters. At least one was described in some detail up to the point where the victim lost her struggle. One of the characters even has the power to override the woman's will in her mind making it seem that she wants to go along with it. Also the Rape Myth was expressed several times. (The Rape Myth is the idea that some men have that a woman really desires to be taken by force even when she clearly refuses. Let me be clear - No means NO!)
True it was clearly not condoned by the author. Perhaps for that reason I should not protest it, but it still bothers me. While I can't say that the author condones any of these things, I was greatly disappointed when one of the women so influenced admitted later in the story that she had truly wanted to go through with the sex despite the glamor on her. And don't think that any of these things were minor side stories with no significance. All of these was central to the story.
Even beyond their violence toward women, the two main male characters, are violent, brutal, selfish men. Several of the characters frequently express feelings of total promiscuity. One of them remembers throwing a woman's baby off a tower to its death. Throughout most of the book, there is little to like about any of the men.
Despite the jaded approach to sexual relationships, there are romances in the story. And it doesn't become clear until late in the story who really wants whom, or who will end up with whom.
There is a running theme of the horrors of war including the social aftermath, not just the battles.
Why did I finish? I wanted to get the feel for the entire book and write a review and I don't think that's fair if I don't finish.
Mature themes: I think I've covered them - rape, war violence, fantasy violence, and even one on one violence. Unlike many books by MZB, there is even some mildly explicit description of consensual sex.
This could have been a great story. Unfortunately I would definitely recommend against reading it, although at the beginning of the third decade of the third Millenia, this book appears in some ways to be no worse that much of the genre today.
What offends me?
I literally lost track of how many rapes there were by main characters. At least one was described in some detail up to the point where the victim lost her struggle. One of the characters even has the power to override the woman's will in her mind making it seem that she wants to go along with it. Also the Rape Myth was expressed several times. (The Rape Myth is the idea that some men have that a woman really desires to be taken by force even when she clearly refuses. Let me be clear - No means NO!)
True it was clearly not condoned by the author. Perhaps for that reason I should not protest it, but it still bothers me. While I can't say that the author condones any of these things, I was greatly disappointed when one of the women so influenced admitted later in the story that she had truly wanted to go through with the sex despite the glamor on her. And don't think that any of these things were minor side stories with no significance. All of these was central to the story.
Even beyond their violence toward women, the two main male characters, are violent, brutal, selfish men. Several of the characters frequently express feelings of total promiscuity. One of them remembers throwing a woman's baby off a tower to its death. Throughout most of the book, there is little to like about any of the men.
Despite the jaded approach to sexual relationships, there are romances in the story. And it doesn't become clear until late in the story who really wants whom, or who will end up with whom.
There is a running theme of the horrors of war including the social aftermath, not just the battles.
Why did I finish? I wanted to get the feel for the entire book and write a review and I don't think that's fair if I don't finish.
Mature themes: I think I've covered them - rape, war violence, fantasy violence, and even one on one violence. Unlike many books by MZB, there is even some mildly explicit description of consensual sex.
January 16, 2018
Può un libro con un protagonista più che odioso essere profondamente appassionante? La risposta di questo libro è sì! Siamo al quarto capitolo della saga di Darkover e l'argomento principe di questo volume è la guerra. Oltre alla fantastica scrittura, all'ambientazione particolare di Darkover (che però in questo libro non è centrale), c'è la storia interessante di Bard di Asturien, da figlio illegittimo a primo uomo del regno. Il suo percorso di soldato e di generale accompagna molte riflessioni sulla guerra, dai motivi da cui nasce al modo di farla, al prezzo pagato dalla popolazione civile (soprattutto dalle donne che diventano merce, bottino), anche in termini di generazioni future, come per i danni provocati dalle armi chimiche e radioattive. Ma è anche la crescita spirituale di un uomo che è cresciuto senza l'amore e quindi incapace di offrirlo a sua volta. Il suo rapporto con le donne è disastroso, in particolare per le donne che incontra... Oltre a essere un bellissimo fantasy, questo libro è anche un ottimo romanzo psicologico che segue le evoluzioni di una mente contorta.
Al contempo sono tracciate le sorti del regno . Le due storie (quella del regno e quella dell'uomo) viaggiano su percorsi paralleli e finiscono con l'affrontare lo stesso destino.
Anche in questo volume ho apprezzato moltissimo le personagge, disegnate con cura anche in tutte le loro contraddizioni; sono sempre molto sfaccettate e particolari. La geografia di Darkover diventa sempre più ampia. Per orientarsi bene in questo mondo ci vorrebbe una mappa dettagliata (all'inizio del libro ce n'è una ma potrebbe essere fatta meglio...).
Per fortuna questa saga ha tanti libri, perché io detesto ogni volta che finiscono!
Al contempo sono tracciate le sorti del regno . Le due storie (quella del regno e quella dell'uomo) viaggiano su percorsi paralleli e finiscono con l'affrontare lo stesso destino.
Anche in questo volume ho apprezzato moltissimo le personagge, disegnate con cura anche in tutte le loro contraddizioni; sono sempre molto sfaccettate e particolari. La geografia di Darkover diventa sempre più ampia. Per orientarsi bene in questo mondo ci vorrebbe una mappa dettagliata (all'inizio del libro ce n'è una ma potrebbe essere fatta meglio...).
Per fortuna questa saga ha tanti libri, perché io detesto ogni volta che finiscono!
August 2, 2015
Bit of a jumble, this review. Read at your own risk.
Part of me is horrified by this book, by a main character who is a rapist and murderer, someone who is so selfish that he seems to believe that women he rapes actually enjoy it; so horrible a person that he seems incapable of compassion towards most others. Yet another part of me is intrigued too, by this truly alien man. Not alien because he lives on another world (even though that world is fictional!) but because he is the kind of person I would never ever want to be, know or understand. As a woman subjected to catcalls, whistles, leering glances, assaults by strangers in public places and worse for the past 20-ish years, I am no stranger to male attitudes to women. It took me years to learn how to deal with strangers coming up to me, asking me out, looking at me as if they wanted to eat me or worse, etc. and all that without dressing to attract attention, doing my best to avoid eye contact, etc. From being a cheerful, noisy and confident child, I turned into a teenager trying to hide from strangers, often afraid to be noticed because being noticed meant being harassed or treated as just a thing or just a body. I understand that this is a book review, not a tale of my life, however it seems impossible to describe just how wrong it feels to read about Bard di Asturien as a lead character without explaining, just a little, why he horrifies me so.
I know as well as any woman or any person ever treated as less by another, that there are many human beings who seem to see no wrong in treating others as things to be used, abused and discarded. Bard di Asturien is not alone in this, he is not the only male who treats women as toys and is not the only one who seems to think that no actually means yes or that shy refusals are actually invitations for more. As much as I dislike Bard, I also find that there is a part of me that wants to understand him, wants to figure out why he thinks and acts as he does. Because there are people exactly like him outside of fiction, and pretending that they don't exist will not make them go away. Just because this story is set on Darkover does not make it less real than if it had been set on earth. Males will be males, and all that.
Apart from my horror at the main character and my silent hope while reading that, as the book progresses, we'll read about his change of heart, his painful death at the hands of those he's wronged or perhaps even both, the story is interesting. Reading about the time of Varzil the Good and the formation of The Compact is new to me and intriguing, as is this period in Darkover's history. The book reads quite like other stories I've read that are set in Europe a few hundred years ago with some magic thrown in for good measure. Kings rule and scheme, warriors fight, women are regarded by most as simple beings who shouldn't think too much and those with power use and abuse those without it.
I don't recall reading about the idea of identical doubles before in any Darkover books and honestly, the idea seems a little silly to me. But, I guess MZB needed a double to appear somehow, so why not make him come from an entirely different planet. Yet finding an identical double seems more like an idea that belongs in straight science fiction where the doubles are found on parallel earths, than in mixed fantasy / science-fiction as Darkover is where the double comes from space. If Bard's double is identical to him in all ways, do Paul's parents look the same as Bard's, are their grandparents also identical? Surely they must be if they are identical? Many questions left unanswered to make this "double" plot device feel like it makes sense. Darkover itself is plenty interesting without the Terran Empire and Terran-humans there, so bringing an offworlder in to the story seems like reaching for a plot device and a reason to mention earth/Terra, whereas finding a double anywhere on Darkover itself would have worked as well. Also, I can't help but think that surely bringing a man forth from such a distance as Paul Harrel came from would require more than only three or four leroni (is that the right plural? I should really remember these things!...) working without preparation - wouldn't a Keeper be required to bind the energies of all involved, or a larger circle / group of people to produce the mental energy needed for a huge operation like this?
I've stated before in reviews that when I am able to really dislike a character in a book, that it points to a book being well-written and detailed. In the case of this book I definitely feel that my intense dislike of Bard di Asturien speaks to MZB's amazing writing skills. Bland characters can just be "generic bad guys" who want to destroy the world or conquer others and we never understand their motivation, yet with Bard, I find that I try to understand him and that MZB makes a considerable effort to put the reader into Bard's headspace.
I started writing this review before finishing the entire book and wrote "I can only hope that either Bard truly learns to see the error of his ways or dies horribly at the hands of the women he has wronged, which would provide me with some sense of closure and justice." Having finished the book, I am glad that Bard did indeed see the error of his ways and truly saw and felt how his actions impacted on others. Words alone were not enough to convince him, yet on Darkover where laran exists, he was able to truly experience the horrors he inflicted on others. I can't help but think that if only such clear insights were available for all human beings, if only all of us could see, feel and experience just how our actions impact on others, our world would be a very different place. The Bard the story ends with is a much more likeable character than the Bard we got to know throughout the tale and I am tempted to forgive him, as others did, because he simply didn't understand the effects of his actions. Yet "he just didn't know" seems like too easy an apology for his actions. Although he is only human did eventually face his actions, it would have been nice (if not nearly as interesting, story-wise), if Bard had learnt those lessons earlier on in the story. All in all, I did actually like and enjoy this book despite my dislike for Bard and kudos to MZB for creating a character I wanted to hurt and make suffer while also 'rejoicing' at his redemption.
Part of me is horrified by this book, by a main character who is a rapist and murderer, someone who is so selfish that he seems to believe that women he rapes actually enjoy it; so horrible a person that he seems incapable of compassion towards most others. Yet another part of me is intrigued too, by this truly alien man. Not alien because he lives on another world (even though that world is fictional!) but because he is the kind of person I would never ever want to be, know or understand. As a woman subjected to catcalls, whistles, leering glances, assaults by strangers in public places and worse for the past 20-ish years, I am no stranger to male attitudes to women. It took me years to learn how to deal with strangers coming up to me, asking me out, looking at me as if they wanted to eat me or worse, etc. and all that without dressing to attract attention, doing my best to avoid eye contact, etc. From being a cheerful, noisy and confident child, I turned into a teenager trying to hide from strangers, often afraid to be noticed because being noticed meant being harassed or treated as just a thing or just a body. I understand that this is a book review, not a tale of my life, however it seems impossible to describe just how wrong it feels to read about Bard di Asturien as a lead character without explaining, just a little, why he horrifies me so.
I know as well as any woman or any person ever treated as less by another, that there are many human beings who seem to see no wrong in treating others as things to be used, abused and discarded. Bard di Asturien is not alone in this, he is not the only male who treats women as toys and is not the only one who seems to think that no actually means yes or that shy refusals are actually invitations for more. As much as I dislike Bard, I also find that there is a part of me that wants to understand him, wants to figure out why he thinks and acts as he does. Because there are people exactly like him outside of fiction, and pretending that they don't exist will not make them go away. Just because this story is set on Darkover does not make it less real than if it had been set on earth. Males will be males, and all that.
Apart from my horror at the main character and my silent hope while reading that, as the book progresses, we'll read about his change of heart, his painful death at the hands of those he's wronged or perhaps even both, the story is interesting. Reading about the time of Varzil the Good and the formation of The Compact is new to me and intriguing, as is this period in Darkover's history. The book reads quite like other stories I've read that are set in Europe a few hundred years ago with some magic thrown in for good measure. Kings rule and scheme, warriors fight, women are regarded by most as simple beings who shouldn't think too much and those with power use and abuse those without it.
I don't recall reading about the idea of identical doubles before in any Darkover books and honestly, the idea seems a little silly to me. But, I guess MZB needed a double to appear somehow, so why not make him come from an entirely different planet. Yet finding an identical double seems more like an idea that belongs in straight science fiction where the doubles are found on parallel earths, than in mixed fantasy / science-fiction as Darkover is where the double comes from space. If Bard's double is identical to him in all ways, do Paul's parents look the same as Bard's, are their grandparents also identical? Surely they must be if they are identical? Many questions left unanswered to make this "double" plot device feel like it makes sense. Darkover itself is plenty interesting without the Terran Empire and Terran-humans there, so bringing an offworlder in to the story seems like reaching for a plot device and a reason to mention earth/Terra, whereas finding a double anywhere on Darkover itself would have worked as well. Also, I can't help but think that surely bringing a man forth from such a distance as Paul Harrel came from would require more than only three or four leroni (is that the right plural? I should really remember these things!...) working without preparation - wouldn't a Keeper be required to bind the energies of all involved, or a larger circle / group of people to produce the mental energy needed for a huge operation like this?
I've stated before in reviews that when I am able to really dislike a character in a book, that it points to a book being well-written and detailed. In the case of this book I definitely feel that my intense dislike of Bard di Asturien speaks to MZB's amazing writing skills. Bland characters can just be "generic bad guys" who want to destroy the world or conquer others and we never understand their motivation, yet with Bard, I find that I try to understand him and that MZB makes a considerable effort to put the reader into Bard's headspace.
I started writing this review before finishing the entire book and wrote "I can only hope that either Bard truly learns to see the error of his ways or dies horribly at the hands of the women he has wronged, which would provide me with some sense of closure and justice." Having finished the book, I am glad that Bard did indeed see the error of his ways and truly saw and felt how his actions impacted on others. Words alone were not enough to convince him, yet on Darkover where laran exists, he was able to truly experience the horrors he inflicted on others. I can't help but think that if only such clear insights were available for all human beings, if only all of us could see, feel and experience just how our actions impact on others, our world would be a very different place. The Bard the story ends with is a much more likeable character than the Bard we got to know throughout the tale and I am tempted to forgive him, as others did, because he simply didn't understand the effects of his actions. Yet "he just didn't know" seems like too easy an apology for his actions. Although he is only human did eventually face his actions, it would have been nice (if not nearly as interesting, story-wise), if Bard had learnt those lessons earlier on in the story. All in all, I did actually like and enjoy this book despite my dislike for Bard and kudos to MZB for creating a character I wanted to hurt and make suffer while also 'rejoicing' at his redemption.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
November 5, 2024
This story continues the struggles of the Hundred Kingdoms and the Compact. I have to say that I really disliked Bard and found him to be the worst character in a book that was the main one. Paul was not too far off but that was because he was the same person as Bard except from Earth.
But meeting Bard’s father, Rafael, I understand why Bard was the way he was. Rafael was a pretty ruthless man who wanted power for himself and sons. The majority of the story focused on Bard and was a terrible man he was, he had no respect for women and took advantage of them. He was outlawed from wounding his foster brother at a festival. He ends up killing another foster brother. He has no morals or care for anyone but himself.
The ending was not what I excepted and the way things turned out surprised me. I cannot say anymore without giving away spoilers, but it is okay to say that some good things happened.
But meeting Bard’s father, Rafael, I understand why Bard was the way he was. Rafael was a pretty ruthless man who wanted power for himself and sons. The majority of the story focused on Bard and was a terrible man he was, he had no respect for women and took advantage of them. He was outlawed from wounding his foster brother at a festival. He ends up killing another foster brother. He has no morals or care for anyone but himself.
The ending was not what I excepted and the way things turned out surprised me. I cannot say anymore without giving away spoilers, but it is okay to say that some good things happened.
April 17, 2022
What the hell? That’s what I thought when I read the Wikipedia page (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario... ) after reading more than 10 books of this series.
This book was the most disturbing now knowing the context. Let’s be honest it not even well written - in all Darkover books I loved the world building but never liked the way everything is constantly about gender, in a way which was certainly advanced 50 years ago but did not age well, all men are trash and women are super cheesy. For this book in particular it’s all about a rapist, but at the end no worries he’s good. Meh.
Anyway, wtf MZB, I was happy to read from a woman but what she’s done to her daughter makes her one of the worst author I’ve ever read. Between the subpar writing and the real life monster of an author, I rate this one star.
This book was the most disturbing now knowing the context. Let’s be honest it not even well written - in all Darkover books I loved the world building but never liked the way everything is constantly about gender, in a way which was certainly advanced 50 years ago but did not age well, all men are trash and women are super cheesy. For this book in particular it’s all about a rapist, but at the end no worries he’s good. Meh.
Anyway, wtf MZB, I was happy to read from a woman but what she’s done to her daughter makes her one of the worst author I’ve ever read. Between the subpar writing and the real life monster of an author, I rate this one star.
July 6, 2022
This was always one of my least favorite of the Darkover books. On my reread journey, I found that I like it better but it is still highly problematic. Bard and Paul, his clone, are misogynists of the worst sort, entitled rapists who treat women like dirt. While Bard gets a well-deserved comeuppance, it was still too good for what he deserved. In the reread, I found it more interesting how Bard doesn't ever feel loved, so he strikes out at men too; I think his treatment of women struck me more in the first read.
It makes one appreciate Varzil and some of the other characters more. The women, in particular, have a rough lot in life in the Age of Chaos, but I appreciated how well they coped. Laran allows some of them the ability empathize, though I doubt I could have been so kind.
It makes one appreciate Varzil and some of the other characters more. The women, in particular, have a rough lot in life in the Age of Chaos, but I appreciated how well they coped. Laran allows some of them the ability empathize, though I doubt I could have been so kind.
October 11, 2022
2 stars because I like the overall writing and setting and some of the characters - particularly the Sisterhood and the Laranis, but if not for the promise of the main character getting some karmic slapback, I don't think I'd have finished this one.
No surprise that the main character and his counterpart are as unsympathetic as you could possibly get and clinging to humanity by barely a thread. There's a bit too tidy of a wrap up to that, and it could have been developed earlier, and better.
In a certain respect, it reminds me a bit of Sword of Truth where there are some compelling characters in the periphery and an interesting world that I overall like, but conflictingly awful stuff going on in the foreground. That being: rape, rape, and more rape.
February 26, 2019
9/10. Media de los 18 libros leídos de la autora : 8/10
En su día estaba colgadito de su saga de Darkover (Fantasía). Hace no mucho re-leí parte de uno de estos libros y me resultó simplón, pero como estoy manteniendo la nota que les puse en su día, pues queda la autora con una media fantástica de "8".
La saga artúrica Las nieblas de Avalon tb está muy bien, es una novelación distinta pero bien escrita. Lo de siempre pero con otro toque, vamos. Y sus incursiones en CF tampoco defraudan.
En su día estaba colgadito de su saga de Darkover (Fantasía). Hace no mucho re-leí parte de uno de estos libros y me resultó simplón, pero como estoy manteniendo la nota que les puse en su día, pues queda la autora con una media fantástica de "8".
La saga artúrica Las nieblas de Avalon tb está muy bien, es una novelación distinta pero bien escrita. Lo de siempre pero con otro toque, vamos. Y sus incursiones en CF tampoco defraudan.
May 20, 2022
the main protagonist is not very likeable, somewhat reminiscent of Thomas Covenant. The premise that an identical copy (or perhaps 2?) of everything in the universe is a fascinating one that has potential use in roleplaying games. The stasis box also seems reminiscent of Demolition Man; but then again, this book was contemporary or perhaps preceded some of those ideas.
In any case an interesting read, with another unforeseeable conclusion!
In any case an interesting read, with another unforeseeable conclusion!
March 6, 2012
I read the first book in this omnibus, Darkover Landfall in 2008. I'm now continuing with Two to Conquer. I am following my own reading order for the Darkover novels as described on my blog - http://www.brigidsflame.com/feymorgai... - except that I read Darkover Landfall earlier and am reading Two to Conquer now after Hawkmistress! instead of after City of Sorcery.
The 5 star rating on here is for Darkover Landfall. I'll adjust the rating, if necessary, after I read Two to Conquer (and maybe write a review of the omnibus).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(As posted on my blog, see "Book Blog" dated July 8, 2011)
Two to Conquer is a tough story, I think, for some people to swallow. In this story, you have two protagonists who are not very likable. I'm understating. In real life, you'd hate these two men. They both have violent natures, and both men treat women as objects, not persons of worth. However, this is not real life (or more correctly, this is not our world, our universe) - it's Darkover. Darkover, where laran (telekinetic powers) is common. While reading this novel, I don't think that Bradley is making excuses for rapists and abusers in our world, but rather she's exploring an idea, a "what if?" Essentially, this novel is asking "What if the rapist/abuser could actually feel everything his/her victim is feeling regarding the abuse?" Bradley's take is that a certain amount of empathy is required in order for someone to feel remorse for inflicting pain on another. In the case with laran, the remorse someone could feel would be devastating. If you have been reading Darkover like I have been, you will be familiar with the idea that laran needs to be awakened and trained in the person who's gifted with it. Persons with untrained laran pose a danger and a risk to Darkovan society. This was the subject of the novel Stormqueen! (reviewed previously; see above for the link), though it was much easier for some people to swallow. In Two to Conquer, it becomes clear later that Bard had untrained laran and a form of laran that hadn't awaken yet. He has a type of laran that allows him to control another person's thoughts (this allows him to easily rape women). Only later does another type of laran awakens - telepathy.
In choosing the subject matter of Two to Conquer, Bradley has chosen a difficult story to write. However, she writes this story well. While mostly writing from Bard's perspective, Bradley also wrote a bit from the rape victim's perspective. In this case, the rape victim forgives Bard because she feels that had she not been conflicted with other goals (that of saving her virginity so that she could be Keeper; note that at the time period of this story, Darkovans believed that women had to be virgins in order to be Keepers; this was disproved later), she would have wanted to sleep with him anyway because she was attracted to him. Her explanation is simply that with his laran he tapped into her unconscious desire; and had she been more aware of her own desires, she may have made the choice to sleep with him anyway. As it happens, this girl that Bard rapes who later forgives him turns out to be highly gifted with laran anyway. She earns respect and authority through her ability, and consequently gained confidence in herself. Of course, not all rape victims in our world will be or need be so forgiving. Each rape case is different; and each rape victim needs to come to their own decisions and conclusions about how to deal. It's not up to anyone else to tell a rape victim how s/he should be feeling.
Another plot in this novel is the formation of the "Compact". In Darkover history, this is the time of "Varzil the Good". In an attempt to bring peace to the warring Hundred Kingdoms, Varzil has come up with the Compact. Essentially, it's a law that "bans all distance weapons, making it a matter of honor that one who seeks to kill must himself face equal risk of death." (See "Darkover series" on Wikipedia.) In this time period, Darkovans were killing each other with what amounts to "weapons of mass destruction" created via laran. Bard, although he has hurt others in his personal life, actually agrees with Varzil about the Compact and hopes to get others to agree to it. Bard had previously fought as a soldier and witnessed others burned to death with laran-based weapons. Having witnessed that, he wishes no one to die in that same manner.
Two to Conquer is book two in the Darkover: First Contact omnibus. I give the omnibus 5 out of 5 stars on my GoodReads. I read Darkover Landfall a while back and really enjoyed it (see "Darkover novels and some reading material"). Both books in the omnibus are well-written (although Darkover Landfall is more fun and less serious in tone) and both provide the reader with some things to think about.
The 5 star rating on here is for Darkover Landfall. I'll adjust the rating, if necessary, after I read Two to Conquer (and maybe write a review of the omnibus).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(As posted on my blog, see "Book Blog" dated July 8, 2011)
Two to Conquer is a tough story, I think, for some people to swallow. In this story, you have two protagonists who are not very likable. I'm understating. In real life, you'd hate these two men. They both have violent natures, and both men treat women as objects, not persons of worth. However, this is not real life (or more correctly, this is not our world, our universe) - it's Darkover. Darkover, where laran (telekinetic powers) is common. While reading this novel, I don't think that Bradley is making excuses for rapists and abusers in our world, but rather she's exploring an idea, a "what if?" Essentially, this novel is asking "What if the rapist/abuser could actually feel everything his/her victim is feeling regarding the abuse?" Bradley's take is that a certain amount of empathy is required in order for someone to feel remorse for inflicting pain on another. In the case with laran, the remorse someone could feel would be devastating. If you have been reading Darkover like I have been, you will be familiar with the idea that laran needs to be awakened and trained in the person who's gifted with it. Persons with untrained laran pose a danger and a risk to Darkovan society. This was the subject of the novel Stormqueen! (reviewed previously; see above for the link), though it was much easier for some people to swallow. In Two to Conquer, it becomes clear later that Bard had untrained laran and a form of laran that hadn't awaken yet. He has a type of laran that allows him to control another person's thoughts (this allows him to easily rape women). Only later does another type of laran awakens - telepathy.
In choosing the subject matter of Two to Conquer, Bradley has chosen a difficult story to write. However, she writes this story well. While mostly writing from Bard's perspective, Bradley also wrote a bit from the rape victim's perspective. In this case, the rape victim forgives Bard because she feels that had she not been conflicted with other goals (that of saving her virginity so that she could be Keeper; note that at the time period of this story, Darkovans believed that women had to be virgins in order to be Keepers; this was disproved later), she would have wanted to sleep with him anyway because she was attracted to him. Her explanation is simply that with his laran he tapped into her unconscious desire; and had she been more aware of her own desires, she may have made the choice to sleep with him anyway. As it happens, this girl that Bard rapes who later forgives him turns out to be highly gifted with laran anyway. She earns respect and authority through her ability, and consequently gained confidence in herself. Of course, not all rape victims in our world will be or need be so forgiving. Each rape case is different; and each rape victim needs to come to their own decisions and conclusions about how to deal. It's not up to anyone else to tell a rape victim how s/he should be feeling.
Another plot in this novel is the formation of the "Compact". In Darkover history, this is the time of "Varzil the Good". In an attempt to bring peace to the warring Hundred Kingdoms, Varzil has come up with the Compact. Essentially, it's a law that "bans all distance weapons, making it a matter of honor that one who seeks to kill must himself face equal risk of death." (See "Darkover series" on Wikipedia.) In this time period, Darkovans were killing each other with what amounts to "weapons of mass destruction" created via laran. Bard, although he has hurt others in his personal life, actually agrees with Varzil about the Compact and hopes to get others to agree to it. Bard had previously fought as a soldier and witnessed others burned to death with laran-based weapons. Having witnessed that, he wishes no one to die in that same manner.
Two to Conquer is book two in the Darkover: First Contact omnibus. I give the omnibus 5 out of 5 stars on my GoodReads. I read Darkover Landfall a while back and really enjoyed it (see "Darkover novels and some reading material"). Both books in the omnibus are well-written (although Darkover Landfall is more fun and less serious in tone) and both provide the reader with some things to think about.
May 4, 2019
A 'twin' of the the main character was transported from a distant location far beyond Darkover, by the use of laran that had never before been able to extend beyond the known region of the planet. However, if you can overlook that serious issue the story it does improve with the redemption of a misogynist.
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