Crime, Mysteries & Thrillers discussion

It's a great book. I'm glad to see it won.

Loved this!!! I was totally blown away!

I really loved the way he set this up, all the revelations so great... but I hated the way it ended. I felt like he took the easy way out. But the writing was worth even that disappointment. Great choice.

Shannon wrote: "I really loved the way he set this up, all the revelations so great... but I hated the way it ended. I felt like he took the easy way out. But the writing was worth even that disappointment. Great ..."

Is it February yet? Oh well: I thought the end was appropriate. He didn't take the easy way out. He had her trying throughout the book to solve this some other way.

Esse wrote: "I feel like I'm in the minority with my distaste for Gillian Flynn. Gone Girl had potential, but it ended up in the hot mess category for me.

I nominate Harbor by John Lindqvist. [bookcover:Harbor..."

Esse, this isn't the GONE GIRL thread, it's February's DEFENDING JACOB thread.

But since we're on the subject, you might be in the minority for your dislike of Flynn, but you are in the majority for your dislike of the end of GONE GIRL. Now let's move this to the right thread.

Just waiting for my copy of Defending Jacob to download. It's available at my library but only on audio. This will be my first audio book so we'll see how it goes, so far it's taking a long time to download on my Vox.

Beth wrote: "Is it February yet? Oh well: I thought the end was appropriate. He didn't take the easy way out. He had her trying throughout the book to solve this some other way.
..."

I actually loved the way it ended too. It shocked the crap out of me and I was very pleased with it.

I don't have my copy in front of me but I remember reading a passage to my coworkers about a long time marriage and how much love ran through the years. It was beautiful. What a great writer.

Gave up on the audio book, it was taking forever to download, so it's off to the library today to see if I can get a copy.

Whoops, sorry! Got my threads mixed up!

Okay, I finished Defending Jacob last night. Here's my review: I went back and forth on a 3 or 4 star rating for this one. Kept saying to myself: "This is very much like Presumed Innocent"--which threw me out of the read numerous times. The 4 stars are based primarily on the crafting of this novel and the ending. The active testimony, presented in transcript form, interspersed with a backstory told in first person was quite brilliant. The last 25 pages astounded me, which does not happen often to this reader.

Although I enjoyed this book and was surprised by the ending, one thing that bothered me was the portrayal of the parents' relationship. Whether or not they believed Jacob was a murderer, he was still a troubled kid, yet they rarely ever talked to each other about him.

Very true, S.W. That bothered me as well--and knowing they have a truly troubled son, that they didn't continue on with therapy after the trial.

However my biggest pet peeve was the constant use of names within dialogue. Drove me a bit batty.

Reading it now... not looking at what you all have posted yet. Not sure about my feelings about the story so far. It is a little wordie. I know that's not a word. But seems that way to me. I will continue on hope to have it finished today.

I just finished Defending Jacob. I also debated three stars or four. I was also blown away by the ending. Seems like the parents should have sought help for Jacob when he was so young.

Im starting the sample that came with my nook to tide me over until the library copy becomes available. Looking forward to participating in the discussion!

Karolyn wrote: "Ok... finally finished Defending Jacob..."

Karolyn, I haven't finished the book yet so I'm not sure if what you wrote is a spoiler but if it is, would you mind hiding it?

Sorry deleted it. I had the same problem. Should have used my head.

I'm new to the group so am not sure about the protocol for discussion. When is it okay to talk about the book in its entirety? I don't want to spoil it for people who haven't finished it.

Deborah wrote: "This is very much like Presumed Innocent..."


It's been many years since I read PRESUMED INNOCENT, so I don't trust myself completely when I say this. But I sure don't see any similarity between the two. Maybe you can be more specific and remind me of similarities.

S.W. wrote: "Although I enjoyed this book and was surprised by the ending, one thing that bothered me was the portrayal of the parents' relationship. Whether or not they believed Jacob was a murderer, he was s..."

Yes, that's troubling. But it's also realistic. Different marriages are different. And when there's a crisis in the family, often that's the true test of a marriage. How does each of them deal with it.

I read this when it was first published, but as I recall, when they did try to talk about it, (view spoiler)[they discovered that she had suspicions that he didn't have, and talking about it resulted in a fight, and they didn't want to fight. (hide spoiler)]

Deborah wrote: "Very true, S.W. That bothered me as well--and knowing they have a truly troubled son, that they didn't continue on with therapy after the trial."

But, and this is a BIG "BUT," (view spoiler)[while she felt their son was troubled, he refused to face it. (hide spoiler)]

I think imo these discussions should always be done by (2 - 3 at a time) chapters. Then one thread for the finished book.

Karolyn wrote: "Reading it now... not looking at what you all have posted yet. ..."

That's probably wise. I wouldn't either. But we SHOULD be hiding spoilers.

Joy wrote: "Seems like the parents should have sought help for Jacob when he was so young."

Yes, but (view spoiler)[neither one of them could see what was right in front of them while he was growing up. (hide spoiler)]

I think that's a common problem with a lot of parents.

Shannon wrote: "When is it okay to talk about the book in its entirety? "


Good question. Jenni?

I found the parents' reactions very believable. In fact, I thought he was great at creating authentic relationships.

Beth wrote: "Deborah wrote: "This is very much like Presumed Innocent..."


It's been many years since I read PRESUMED INNOCENT, so I don't trust myself completely when I say this. But I sure don't see any simi..."

Beth--the similarities began with the testimony passages. The "In retrospect I should have seen this coming" elements, and the courtroom elements. This one isn't nearly as compelling, tight, filled with memorable and moving characers though.

I would like to know how to add the (spoiler) link. So if we chose to answer someone about a subject we don't spoil it for those still reading. Thanks.

I loved this book, my favorite from last year. Kept you thinking the whole time, never quite sure of Jacob's guilt or innocence. The parents' reactions were very believable. The ending was risky but very powerful and emotional.

Karolyn wrote: "I would like to know how to add the (spoiler) link. So if we chose to answer someone about a subject we don't spoil it for those still reading. Thanks."

Type the word "spoiler" enclosed by < > before the words you want to hide, then after the words type "/spoiler" enclosed by < >. The instructions are in the "some html is ok" link.

Gatorman wrote: "I loved this book, my favorite from last year. Kept you thinking the whole time, never quite sure of Jacob's guilt or innocence. The parents' reactions were very believable. The ending was risky..."

I agree completely! I read this early last year and you couldn't pry it out of my hands. It was an emotional rollercoaster ride for me, when I was finished I had to go for a walk to clear my head. The ending was such a surprise and affected me for a long time. I think as a parent I related to all sides here and it tore me apart.

Gatorman wrote: "I loved this book, my favorite from last year. Kept you thinking the whole time, never quite sure of Jacob's guilt or innocence. The parents' reactions were very believable. The ending was risky..."

That was one of my problems with the book also.

Karolyn wrote: "I would like to know how to add the (spoiler) link. So if we chose to answer someone about a subject we don't spoil it for those still reading. Thanks."

At the top of the comment box is a link "(some html is ok)" Click that link. Go through their list, and you'll see how to hide a spoiler.

Tracy wrote: "I think as a parent I related to all sides here and it tore me apart...."

I'm not a parent, but I was sure that would be true for readers who are parents

I'm happy to read all the favorable comments about Presumed Innocent. That's been on my TBR list for a while, but I've never quite gotten around to it.

It also reminds me a bit of We Need to Talk About Kevin, though since I'm not too far in I'm not sure how accurate that comparison is.

One of the best books I read in 2012. Wonderful portrayal of the agony that can come with being a loving parent.

My mother's book club read DEFENDING JACOB. They argued about whether he really did it. I'm surprised at this because it's all very clear to me and not debatable. I think I must be smarter than everyone in that book club. :-)

I"m with you, Beth. I didn't see much ambiguity at the end, though I went back and forth all through the book.

Beth wrote: "My mother's book club read DEFENDING JACOB. They argued about whether he really did it. I'm surprised at this because it's all very clear to me and not debatable. I think I must be smarter than eve..."

I agree also Beth - it's pretty clear who the culprit is. Maybe the book club ladies are in denial.

Barbara wrote: "Maybe the book club ladies are in denial..."

Or maybe we're just too smart. :-)

That sounds great!

That terrific Jenni. Sounds like that would be very interesting.

About the Defending Jacob.... I must be in the same not smart category as your mother book club. I am still not sure myself. I could come up with some really different scenarios with that ending. I was not impressed with it.

Jenni wrote: "What do you think?..."

Sounds good. But if the discussion is about another book, it should be a new topic. Maybe I misunderstand you. Does he want to talk about this book or another one?

Karolyn wrote: "About the Defending Jacob.... I must be in the same not smart category as your mother book club. I am still not sure myself. I could come up with some really different scenarios with that ending. I was not impressed with it ..."

the not-smart category, ha, ha. It's one thing not to like the end. It's another not to understand what the author was showing when they went on their vacation. The end was after the vacation, a different scene.

I agree with those who say the book was not ambiguous. It's pretty clear who the guilty party is.

I finished this last night and while I was hoping for a bit more suspense or depth, it wasn't really a bad read. Two things stood out to me. (view spoiler)[

First, I don't think Jacob's psychology holds together well. Typically, people with narcissistic personality disorder are rarely targets of or bothered by bullying. Their grandiosity and disregard for others, who are inherently inferior, is a very effective insulator. People with NPD are much more likely to be bullies themselves, as they're highly skilled in manipulation. That bit of characterization felt quite out of place.

Second, Jacob reminds me of a lot of university students I've come across. Many of them have difficulty self-soothing, coping with basic emotions, and moving away from a self-centered perspective. These traits seem to be ignored by some parents and encouraged by others, and I think the author painted an accurate portrait of Jacob's parents.(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

I read this book ahead of joining this group and have a hard time figuring out how to discuss crime/thriller books without spoiling but basically I really liked it and one reason was because I did not get overly attached to any of the characters. I could enjoy what actually played out without getting mad at the author. It was fast paced and interesting and a good look at people who see the world very differently than I do.

Bonnie wrote: I really liked it and one reason was because I did not get overly attached to any of the characters.
This is so interesting to me. As a writer, we're always told that we need to make readers really CARE about the characters. You sort of like not identifying too much? Do you feel this way with a lot of books?