Reading the Detectives discussion

This is our spoiler thread for our March group read, Grey Mask by Patricia Wentworth. Please note spoilers can be openly discussed here, as it is assumed that anyone reading this thread has finished the book.

I loved it. Fast paced right from the start and all the way through. Absorbing plot, spoilt only by some incredibly stupid character (I don't think she had to be as stupid as she was portrayed to get the same results). Miss Silver was great, but I would have liked some explanation of how she managed to work . Saying that I thought it was a truly enjoyable read.

I really enjoyed it, and want to read more in the series. Since we are also reading Miss Marple, comparing the first book in both series, I find Miss Silver to be a more complete character.

Deborah wrote: "I really enjoyed it, and want to read more in the series. Since we are also reading Miss Marple, comparing the first book in both series, I find Miss Silver to be a more complete character."

While I agree with this opinion and have read most of this series more than once, I do think Christie had better plots.

Leslie wrote: "Deborah wrote: "I really enjoyed it, and want to read more in the series. Since we are also reading Miss Marple, comparing the first book in both series, I find Miss Silver to be a more complete ch..."

I think the plots are very different, and enjoy both authors for different reasons.

I really enjoyed this too - interesting to see that it has a romantic thriller type plot like the other early non-series Wentworth booke I've been reading recently, rather than being a murder mystery. Anyone who liked this would probably enjoy some of those lesser known titles too.

Jill wrote: "I loved it. Fast paced right from the start and all the way through. Absorbing plot, spoilt only by some incredibly stupid character (I don't think she had to be as stupid as she was portrayed to g..."

I enjoyed the humour in this and found Margot/Greta quite amusing at times but do agree she got a bit too silly at times!:Also all the chocolate she ate didn't help with my diet...

I really enjoyed the first two books in the series. They are similar in that Miss Silver doesn't show up until at least halfway into the story.

Oh and the ending of Grey Mask had me chewing my non-existent fingernails.

We know that Miss Silver followed people, but she managed to gather so much information, I would have liked to know how she came by it

We saw little of Miss Silver's investigation - if anything - did we, Jill? Possibly the author was trying to make her look super wise and efficient. She sat, she knitted, she knew!

Yes, I have to agree that the stupidity of Margot was a bit too much to take.

What a collection of coincidences! ... tripping over an unknown cousin, meeting your mother's old friend you haven't seen for 18 years (and she's just seen your dead mother in Vienna), remembering that conversation from childhood, bumping into and recognizing a suspect you've seen only from his back for 15 minutes.

Miss Silver shows potential for an interesting character but in this book her methods are largely unexplored. She is simply all-knowing.

Margot is ridiculous (though I like her letters) and I'm glad her engagement is postponed, giving Archie time to know her better. I'm reminded of Mr. and Mrs. Bennett's marriage in Pride and Prejudice.

However, after that tirade, I enjoyed the adventure and improbable plot twists. So, while I don't resent the time I spent reading it, I will not bother to continue the series.

I wish Miss Silver well and I'm sure she will succeed in her chosen profession.

I have to agree that Margot was ridiculous but, for some reason, she didn't annoy me too much (I can, however, easily see how other readers found her so). Actually, her and Archie would probably be well suited.

I was also pleased that Margot's engagement is postponed. Sandy, all those coincidences didn't really strike me until you brought them together, but yes, there are plenty of them!

Maybe after reading so many village mysteries, we were apt to treat London the same, and missed the coincidences.

Maybe Jill! Having said that, I once went to London for a day on a school trip and walked right into my grandfather, having not even known he was going to be in the city... so these things can happen. :)

Did anyone think that Margaret might really be doing something nefarious? It seemed pretty unlikely to me from the start to be honest, although I have read one Wentworth where a romantic character really had gone off the rails...

Also, did you guess who was really Grey Mask? I didn't guess this at all but was quite annoyed with myself as once it was revealed it seemed pretty obvious!

Improbable coincidences certainly captures it! Almost makes me not feel so bad being unable to figure out who the Grey Mask was.

Margaret was certainly an enigma throughout. I tried to figure out why she acted so oddly throughout, and even when the explanation came, I can't say it was terribly satisfactory. Perhaps that is just her character.

The character of the Grey Mask was a bit broadly drawn so it did feel obvious from early on.

I must admit, I never guessed who Grey Mask was until fairly late. Once Margot was pushed under the bus I knew.

I never suspected Margot, she seemed too childlike. Things happened to her, rather than her making them happen.

I haven't read Wentworth in ages and really enjoyed this one. It's always interesting to compare the first book in such a long series as this one to the later ones. In this one Miss Silver does quite a lot of sleuthing outside of the actual story whereas I think it is much more included in her later books. No police side kick yet, but I do remember her knitting booties etc for Charles and Margaret's babies in later books.

Carolien wrote: "In this one Miss Silver does quite a lot of sleuthing outside of the actual story whereas I think it is much more included in her later books."

I'll look forward to that - it will be fun to see her following the clues rather than just knowing the answers, with no real explanation as to how she got there!

I thought the Charles/Margaret romance was pretty good in this - I found him quite an appealing hero and laughed at Margot's descriptions of his eyebrows "going all twisty"! Romance, usually with a comic element, seems to be a strong element in all the PW books I've read so far.

Carolien wrote: "I haven't read Wentworth in ages and really enjoyed this one. It's always interesting to compare the first book in such a long series as this one to the later ones. In this one Miss Silver does qui..."

Oh, I so like the idea of Miss Silver knitting booties fot their baby.

It is good to hear she appears more in later books. She seemed quite enigmatic in this one, but I never felt I knew her at all. How did she start out as an investigator, for example? I wanted to know, but we were never told.

I wasn't sure what to think of the gang in this book - the way they meet in Charles's house seems rather unlikely!

There seem to be a lot of these criminal gangs with strange rules in GA mysteries - I remember one of these gangs in a Wimsey short story, and also in a Tommy and Tuppence story as I've just said over in the other thread.

There are also quite a few of them in other Wentworth books and I think in Allingham novels too. I wonder whether there were any gangs like this in real life?!

Susan wrote: "It is good to hear she appears more in later books. She seemed quite enigmatic in this one, but I never felt I knew her at all. How did she start out as an investigator, for example? I wanted to kn..."

Yes, I wanted to know this too! Hopefully we might get more of her back story in later books.

There's quite an interesting article in this weekend's Financial Times by Jeremy Paxman on the state of the English police force. One of the points that he makes is how much crime has moved to the Internet and this book is actually a good example of it. This type of blackmail and a gang skulking around to plan crimes would be conducted completely in cyberspace these days. The type of detective described in these books is becoming less relevant in a world of modern crime.

Carolien wrote: "There's quite an interesting article in this weekend's Financial Times by Jeremy Paxman on the state of the English police force. One of the points that he makes is how much crime has moved to the ..."

Thanks for that, Carolien - yes, no need to find an empty house to skulk in for cyber crime! I do wonder if these kinds of gangs ever operated in real life as much as they do in GA mysteries - they don't seem as convincing as the ones in James Cagney films!

Cagney, Bogart, and Edward G. Robinson were always convincing.

I'm a fan of all 3 - can't get enough of those early Warner films!

What did anyone of the ending? I found it exciting but was a bit disappointed that Margaret's note saves them rather than any brilliant deductions by Miss Silver!

I am not convinced they would have found the note. It seemed a bit of a stretch to me to be honest. I still enjoyed it and them being locked in the cellar was probably the only way to resolve the on-off romance for good. Still, it was really a bit of a stretch.

The note was indeed a clever device, but it was very lucky that it should have been noted.

I liked Margaret's trail of paper scraps and it may have actually worked.

I would make a terrible detective - I'd be sure to either not notice them or just tidy them up!

Susan wrote: "I am not convinced they would have found the note. It seemed a bit of a stretch to me to be honest. I still enjoyed it and them being locked in the cellar was probably the only way to resolve the o..."

I thought them being locked in the cellar was exciting, but I'm almost sure the same thing has happened in at least one other mystery I've read lately!

Judy wrote: "I'm a fan of all 3 - can't get enough of those early Warner films!"

Well ok there is one film were Bogart plays an evil Mexican
.

Well, not all those films were good but I think there was a high standard overall, especially in the pre-Code era of the early 30s.

Who's tempted to read further in the series? I'd like to but will read some of the non-series Wentworths piled up on my Kindle first!

Yes, I will certainly read the next in the series - at some point :)

I will definitely read on in the series,as and when I can. I have been introduced to so many new authors and series, that it is just a matter of fitting them in. Thanks to this group for that.

I've read a number of the later Miss Silvers, and she seems much warmer there than in this one. I'm not sure I would like her too much longer the way she is portrayed in this book. I'm glad I read the first one, though!

I have 10 Miss Silver books currently on my Nook to read starting with #3 Lonesome Road. I hope to get to that before the month ends. I do have 6 other books to read for various group challenges yet this month.

Oh thank goodness I wasn't the only one irritated by Margot (although her father telling her to "run away and play" made me want to smack him in teeth. Dearie me - I swear I'm not normally so violent, but he was talking to an 18 year old like she was an infant.

A couple of parts dragged but overall I really enjoyed this. A lovely period piece.

Anyone surprised that Margaret was lugging a desk around London streets? I thought I knew what it was likely to be & now I really want one!



This is avery simple example but Googles brings up some beautiful ones.

It IS a portable desk - I had one as a child, I recall vaguely. To be fair, Margot did not seem to object to being considered a child. She had just returned from school and I think she used it to gain support and get out of things. She was also incredibly thoughtless - just leaving the dept store without leaving any message, just as one example.

Thanks for the desk picture, Carol - I hadn't really visualised it. Definitely a lot of coincidences regarding said desk, but for me Wentworth gets away with it because her writing style is so much fun.

Susan wrote: "It IS a portable desk - I had one as a child, I recall vaguely. To be fair, Margot did not seem to object to being considered a child. She had just returned from school and I think she used it to g..."

Yes I agree she is thoughtless... maybe she gets her thoughtlessness from her dad, who doesn't stop to think about his daughter when cooking up his plot!

I've just found myself muddling this book up with Miss Marple... I was wondering why the war wasn't mentioned in this one and posted about it in the wrong thread, then realised the Miss Silver book is before the war anyway! I suppose the war might well feature in the next one, written some years later....

The second novel deals with a young man convicted of homicide, perhaps wrongfully, and the efforts to try and clear him. Miss Silver again does not show until over a third of the way into the story.

Judy, you are quite right. Margot's father may be rich, but he is pretty clueless really. Plus, if he HAD been killed, Margot would have been disinherited and she was totally unprepared to fend for herself. I suppose she would have grown up, eventually, but he never had much contact with her, which she says throughout the novel, so he never really knew her capabilities - or lack of them.

What did everyone think of Edgar, by the way?