YA LGBT Books discussion

I saw an article out there about author Saladin Ahmed who asked "Women (or anyone who was a teenage girl, however you identify now) what single thing do you most hate that male writers get wrong about being a teenage girl?" - presumably because it was just announced that in March 2019, he will take over for G. Willow Wilson writing the Ms. Marvel comics. The story follows a Pakistani American teenage girl, Kamala Khan, who was the first Muslim protagonist of a Marvel comic series.

He got a ton of answers, some of which can be read in this link. https://bookriot.com/2018/12/20/what-...

I don't want this to be narrowed by gender of author or teen, especially on this group, but my question is

What one thing about teen main characters do you think adult authors seem to miss or get wrong, or what do you wish they understood and would show in books?"

You don't need to be a teen to answer (although I'd love to hear from the teens on the group.) We older folk can look back on our teen years and think about what important aspect to us seems to vanish in a lot of YA.

Reading the answers Ahmed got, one theme that I couldn't help echoing was periods - the degree to which my early teen years as a girl were... maybe haunted isn't the word, but shadowed by "Is it going to happen today? Which clothes can I wear just in case? How bad will the cramps be? Will it make me feel like crap during this important test? What if I get my period while I'm on a sleepover, or on a hike? How many supplies do I bring to camp? Is it leaking through? Can that person tell? Will the teacher let me go to the bathroom again to check?" For probably ten days a month with the uncertainty factor. That's a big fraction.

I'd bet this is true (and even more so) for teen trans guys and nonbinary teens.

I was trying to think of how many YA books I've read that even mentioned a main character dealing with their period, and it's pretty darned small. But the amount of emotional and physical energy that got bound up in that issue was big enough to still be remembered when I'm now pushing 60.

What about the rest of you? What would make a teen MC of any gender feel more real to you?

My complaint is more about reviewers than the books/writers themselves, but there is a segment of writers that kawtow to the complaint (and sometimes end up at the opposite extreme).

My issue is with reviewers that complain about teens acting too mature. The alleged "Adult in teen body" syndrome. They exist in real life; some of them are just preternaturally blessed with introspective natures, others have lived through terrible things and had to grow up fast. They are out there and they need books that reflect them too.

Where authors go wrong is when they try to compensate and prevent those reviews, and end up with a whole cast of really immature teens.

My other big issue is with teen-parent relationships. So many YA books default to the parent conflict tropes, which are fine when used in moderation and are particularly good when used with an unreliable narrator, but for the most part, STAHP IT! There's no need to make the teen-parent relationship a source of conflict when your main character is an interdimensional superhero with actual demons to fight.

I agree that we need more normal mixed, confused, trying, and supportive parents where misunderstanding is more common than open conflict; also fewer absent parents. I get tired of books where the parents aren't really present in the narrative at all, even when logically they would have to be.

As someone already stated, the thing that tends to bother me the most about reading YA is that these kids have the wit and complex decision making skills equivalent to someone more than half their age. I remember being 17 and not remotely being as adult as I thought I was. In fact, with the whole dystopian trope of a group of ragtag teens taking down an entire government is entirely missed by the fact that these kids are operating like highly trained black ops, though none of them rarely get any critical thinking skills and are trained mostly in combat (i.e. Divergent or Hunger Games, etc).

As an educator that’s worked with teens for more than 25 years, and a reviewer, I have to say that I don’t fully agree with the Criticism that reviewers are wrong when stating that teens appear to be or present as too adult in a novel. I get what you’re saying, Rez, And I agree that every once in a while I’ll come across a teenager who acts consistently well beyond their years in both their verbal and emotional responses as well as their intellectual thinking. However, when I criticize an author for presenting a teen as too adult it is usually because they have chosen to give that teenager conversational dialogue and or thinking that is so over-the-top it’s ridiculous.

I agree that some reviewers use that idea of kids being too adult as a means to nitpick an authors work, however, I have read way too many YA novels where the kids are definitely presenting as 40-year-olds and not anywhere near their birth age or even within the realm of a few years beyond it. I have yet to meet a teenager that consistently thinks like a middle-aged adult in every aspect of Their character and yet I have read novels with characters that do. I think that’s lazy writing.

I’m 58 and I don’t always act 58. I don’t always talk like a 58-year-old. It’s just a fact. When a character in a novel is stated to be a certain age and consistently and fully presents as someone well into their adulthood in every aspect, then I have to call foul. Note, the key is fully presenting. If you give me a character that is very mature, years beyond their birth age and yet still has times when they act just as a teenager might, then I’m all for it. Because that is reality. I know, we are in fiction land, but I really think it’s a disservice to everyone when you paint a teenager as only being adult. That’s simply not an accurate representation.

Sammy Goode wrote: "As an educator that’s worked with teens for more than 25 years, and a reviewer, I have to say that I don’t fully agree with the Criticism that reviewers are wrong when stating that teens appear to ..."

I might be lucky and just haven't read books with adults-in-teen-bodies, or I was one of those rare mature teens and having those characters just seems normal to me. My friends from high school all agree that I was the 'Mom Friend' in the social group... I do frequently joke that I've been 24 for the last 15 years--I'm 31 now--which might explain why New Adult books resonate with me so well.

There needs to be balance with maturity in teens characters, that's for sure; I might have been more mature emotionally, but I didn't have have the experience or the wisdom that that imparts. And people with experience and wisdom don't act 100% mature all the time either (for instance, my grandmother's first impulse, when I came out to her while at lunch with my then boyfriend, was to ask, "How's the sex?") So, I'm not sure I'd enjoy any book where the character is mature all the time, since it's not true to life anyways, and those critiques are justifiable. But writers need to be aware to not swing too far in the other direction either.

I agree with what others have said (especially the period one, and I seem to always notice the lack of it in fantasy stories. Even though most other books also don't mention periods, I can't help but think of them more when the people are walking across countries, fighting constantly and camping in the woods!)

If we're talking more about outside influences then there really is a lack of technology in modern books. Most teens are o their phones constantly, but in books they're hardily mentioned (but don't get me started on authors using text speak when they do include phones!!)

Carrie-Anne wrote: "(but don't get me started on authors using text speak when they do include phones!!) "

Oh gods, authors trying to use "current" text speak is so annoying. Even if they do get it right (which is rare)... congrats, author, you've just put an expiration date on your book.

I think a lot of current YA authors try to avoid technology for the same reason. They want their book to remain relevant for longer, and one of the best ways to make your book dated is by putting in technology that goes out of style. If you want proof of this, try talking to any teen about a walkman and watch their facial expression as it shifts first from confusion, then to amusement, and lands on boredom.

I think sometimes authors are too hesitant to write kids not having to deal with 'adult' problems. My main complications when I was a teenager were a) my undiagnosed learning disorder that led to crushing self esteem problems and b) the very rational fear that my mother would reconcile with my paedrast father and that he'd get me pregnant (she talked about reconciling with him to me all the time), and the PTSD and self harm that sprang from both of those things. I think adults sometimes think that kids don't deal with this kind of stuff, but let me tell you, the books I clung to apart from escapist fantasy and point horror were books like Cynthia Voigt's When She Hollers, because I needed to read about kids dealing with the same shit I was. I had no use for stuff like Sweet Valley High, which some of the other girls were obsessed with, because the 'problems' in that were NOTHING like my reality.

The #1 issue I take is the assumption that all teens are (a) interested in sex (b) from a very young age. Some teens are not interested in sex at all (maybe because they are asexual), and plenty are not interested yet. For example, while I'm a fan of Alex Sanchez, this is my primary critique of his books. So Hard to Say has 13-year-olds performing sexual acts, and the premise of Getting It is of a 15-year-old who is the only virgin left in his friend group. When I was 15, I didn't know anyone who wasn't a virgin. In fact, there were distinct conversations in which my friend group expressed that their feeling on sex was still of the "eww cooties" variety.

Unrealistic relationships are one of my biggest pet peeves. I want more casual romantic relationships in YA and less ones that have the couple declaring their undying love for each other in high school. A lot of the relationships at my high school that I saw were more casual, and not the you’re-my-everything, you’re-the-one-and-only, forget-friends-and-family-all-we-need-is-each-other type. To be fair, though, maybe kids from my school were just too stressed over grades and sports to have those kinds of intense relationships.

For the sake of argument, I'm limiting my comments to Reality Fiction YA - because I can suspend disbelief for adult intellect teens performing Black Ops maneuvers within other genres. But if you're going to write Reality, I expect my characters/situations to feel real.

I'm tired of the big raging parties where the alcohol and/or sex and/or drugs flow like water. I attended three different high schools in three different states growing up and I never been to, heard of, or known anyone who's been to or heard of any other teen who's been to one of these legendary ragers. The kids I work with now don't even believe these exist at the high school level. College - yes. Parties in my day, and apparently even now, is/was a few kids getting together and chilling.

I'm tired of parents not being in the picture for whatever reason. It just seems too convenient. My parents were constantly in my business - and yes that often meant my finding ways around things, and there was the challenge - but still, it did let me know they cared and often stopped me from being TOO stupid as a teen for fear of getting caught. It feels like authors write parents out of the picture as a way to give their characters free reign. I challenge the authors to write the parents back into the story and deal with it. I had to growing up, so why shouldn't their characters.

I'm tired of teens in books being pretty, or fit, or popular, or some other form of "privileged" as the standard norm. Unless it's crucial to the story, the main character never really seems to be POC, or fat, or gay, or have acne, or be socially awkward or all of the above.

I'm tired of male gay characters (well any character really, but these in particular) finding "insta-love" in high school. I get kids are "out" more readily now but this isn't ALWAYS the case. Where is the questioning, the liking but not being sure, the making the mistake and hitting on a straight guy only to have them physically hit back, where is the social awkwardness and fear of being closeted and crushing? Simon VS The Homo Sapien was the closes I've seen to portraying this, and even that was more "cute" than actual.

And finally - I'm tired of the lack of mainstream YA books that deal with Anorexia in males. I can list on one hand the number of mainstream releases dealing with male anorexia. It's getting better, yes, but way too slowly. It's real. It's happening. Publishers and authors need to acknowledge it with MAINSTREAM releases so we can start talking about it.

That is all. I'll step off the soapbox now and let someone else have a turn.

Thank you for reading.

James wrote: "I'm tired of the big raging parties where the alcohol and/or sex and/or drugs flow like water...."

Oh yeah how could I forget the parties/drugs/alcohol? Where do teens in books even get their drugs/alcohol from? It's always just "there."

They put us teens into two columns: either we got to parties every weekend, get drunk, high and have sex. Or we never go out and we stay at home reading and doing homework. What about to teens who do a bit of both? What about the teens who go out to laser tag with their friends. There are more to us then you think.

I guess I have a few.
Unrealistic voice. So many "16-17 year olds" are written the same as you'd write someone in their late 20's, or however old the author is sometimes. If they aren't written as way too old, they are written as unrealistically snotty and spoiled. It's really more like an older person making fun of teenage mood swings and inexperience of the world, rather than sharing the young person's POV.

Vicious coupling, where everyone and their insignificant 2nd cousin twice removed winds up in a heteronormative relationship in the end. It isn't realistic and usually feels forced. Even just the main character finding their 16-year-old true love or whatever is old, because it always happens. I think male/female friendships really need to be normalized. You can be friends and *never* have them fall in love at one point or another :o

Aaand the parties and just how insane high school is depicted, that has been mentioned so many times already. Authors self-indulging in who they might have liked to be in high school, or what they actually think high school is like these days?

"She had long brown hair and green eyes, a slim build and curves in all the right places. She was so plain and boring and no one notices her but she actually saves the whatever and becomes insanely popular and steals the snobby blonde cheerleader's boyfriend" can we n o t. ever again.

I do feel like YA is heading in a good direction, authors are realizing that readers want??? diversity?????
but man there's some tropes that I just. no.

I think the big parties thing is a symptom of stratified small communities and integrated schools where you have a minority of "rich" kids from one part of town, and the majority of kids from lower income areas.

I live in a small town with only one highschool, and there is an area called College Heights where the wealthier families put their McMansions, and I actually went to a few parties like the ones mentioned; illicit alcohol provided by older siblings, parents away on a business trip, spin the bottle and so forth. One was even a costume party like in Simon VS. But these were the exception, most 'parties' were just a bunch of junk food, someone hijacking the stereo with their iPod, and playing Apples to Apples all night (or until the driver's (because only a tenth of us had cars) parent's called them home).

Or these parties are an artifact of another decade and they're just leaking into writing still.

Rez wrote: "I think the big parties thing is a symptom of stratified small communities and integrated schools where you have a minority of "rich" kids from one part of town, and the majority of kids from lower..."

Ah, interesting. I grew up in a relatively small town with ~12k people and ~500 kids in high school, and everyone was pretty much lower-middle class.

From the rural south with similar population numbers where I went to HS and 'field parties' were a thing. Similar economic demographics didn't prevent alcohol from appearing at those events.

I feel it's important to realize that even when we are reading "adult" MC novels, these adults are often smarter, prettier, and more skilled than 'normal' folk.

So, in YA novels I'm never surprised to find the MC a bit more mature than real life teens.

The important thing in crafting characters is to give them flaws, (uncertainties, worry, doubt, selfishness, etc.)

I'm currently reading a YA novel where the MC has major anxiety issues...and I'm finding it very realistic. The inner voice is very introspective and discerning (and also witty).

Most teens in real life these days are absorbed in technology. The phone, (really for all of us) is such a huge distraction. I've seen this addressed in current novels, but it isn't that interesting to read about.

As a writer I look at the big picture. The question is: What do teens lack from their adult counterparts?

The easy, and obvious, answer is Experience. Time.

When your MC is a teen that person has just been on the planet for less time and so, probably has less experience dealing with big life events.

In my novels my main characters who are teens can be seen as being rather extraordinary...but if they are, it is a result of their environment. I try to give them all the emotional insecurity and other things that just take years of experience to foster.

Most teens still believe in love. If they are in love they think it will last forever. I find that rather wonderful... first love, coming out, all those big emotional events that happen early are still worth exploring.

The mature voice thing pees me off most when the character's behavior and actions don't match up. Like, their narrative is that of someone twice their age, but then they go do stuff a person half their age would recognize as unwise.

What annoys me way more than the too-mature voice, though, is the too-immature voice.