The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

These six chapters complete book one. as Sarah mentioned in the previous post, many seeds of future events have been planted in this book.

Dickens is getting very pessimistic about the topic of the loveless marriage. In his earlier books, the loveless marriages were either comical/satirical or marriages of convenience where each spouse did not have any pretenses about matrimonial happiness; in this book he dedicated many pages to the loveless marriage of Stephen Blackpool and the chancery of this marriage.

I could not help thinking about Dickens' marriage and separation from Catherine Hogarth. The novel was published in 1954, but it still contains meditations on loveless marriage and is a precursor of his familial drama.

If you remember early Dickens, you must also remember how fond he was of his strangers - people coming out of nowhere and whom no one recognized for a while. Then, they disappeared and the narrative forms became less mystical, but in this novel, he is up to his old tricks of introducing a lady who is curious, but whose identity or social status is never revealed, and the years pass by.

Another example of unhappy marriage is the one between Louise and Bounderby. She accepts her destiny so passively, so demurely, and so humbly that one can only question how much spirit, spunk, and sassiness she has. None, zero, zilch, nada ...

Indeed facts won a victory on the battlefield of Loiuse Gradgrind.

Her brother Tom is quite the opposite - his spirit of protest is strong and powerful, and I hope it will not turn into the volcano of protest. This eruption can be quite dangerous for many people around him.

Yet again, excuse my 'sotto voce' Hedi, thank you for your offer to open threads. If I feel I am really behind, I will PM you. Meanwhile, bear with me my silence when I do not comment - I am still reading everyone's posts.

P.S. Hard Times is not a bad novel, and it explores many issues that are still pertinent and important nowadays, but I think after Bleak House with its dynamic prose, lyrical descriptions, innovative approach, Hard Times might seem a little bit boring. Basically, Dickens fell victim to his own success.

Louisa's marriage to Bounderby, while sad, was not unexpected. Louisa turns a proud eye to Sissy now because Sissy alone is compassionate and realizes her sacrifice. Two quotations from the exchange between Louisa and her father stood out to me:

"You have been so careful of me, that I never had a child's heart. You have trained me so well, that I never dreamed a child's dream. You have dealt so wisely with me, father, from my cradle to this hour, that I never had a child's belief or a child's fear."

"It has always been my object to educate you, as that you might, while still in your early youth, be (if I may so express myself) almost any age."

Regarding Tom, I too fear that he will eventually explode. However, I think that Louisa might as well: "There seems to be nothing there but languid and monotonous smoke. Yet when the night comes, Fire bursts out, father!"

Oh yes, her speech is very accusatory. It might sound humble, servile or even demure, but in fact it contains that message of embitterment that might lead to some very emotional and volatile situations.

Perhaps I am too soft-hearted, but I find myself feeling sorry for Mr. Gradgrind. He truly believes that he is doing what's best for his children, and he is so deluded that he can't even see through Louisa's veiled speech. He is, I fear, in for a rude awakening.

I also wondered if Dickens' questioning about why divorce isn't available to everyone reflected his experience, especially the wish to marry someone else instead.

Sarah wrote: "Perhaps I am too soft-hearted, but I find myself feeling sorry for Mr. Gradgrind. He truly believes that he is doing what's best for his children..."

I agree, Gradgrind is a surprisingly sympathetic character, because he does love his children, but has effectively imprisoned himself as well as them by his belief in fact over feeling. He's given one last chance when he "might have seen one wavering moment" in Louisa, - but "to see it, he must have overleaped at a bound the artificial barriers he had for many years been erecting." His discomfiture in this scene indicates that he knows that the match is not welcome to Louisa, but he chooses to put aside his own instinctive feelings as unimportant.

Why does Louisa accept? Tom wants her to, and she probably feels more affection for Tom than anyone else, but that's not a compelling reason. Louisa is strong-willed enough to reject the proposal if she chose (for example, she could make a good argument for being too young to marry.) Perhaps the underlying reason for her acceptance is that she sees no other prospect of a better or happier life.

What is already clear is that this marriage will be as bleak as Stephen's is, though for a different reason.
(Incidentally, Stephen's wife is described as if she's barely human - I don't think we've even learnt her name yet, unless I missed it..)

Gradgrind does seem to have some hidden humanity. He was surprisingly kind to Sissy when he took her in and later when he realizes she didn't do well in school, he can't really explain why he still likes to have her around.

Robin wrote: "I also wondered if Dickens' questioning about why divorce isn't available to everyone reflected his experience, especially the wish to marry someone else instead."

I found the story of Stephen very moving. The scene with Rachel as she nursed his wife could have been from any current TV program. It does make a change in literature of the period to see a man despair of being trapped in a bad marriage rather than a lady.

Helen_in_the_uk wrote: "It does make a change in literature of the period to see a man despair of being trapped in a bad marriage rather than a lady. "

It is indeed a significant change. Dickens, the innovator in literature, yet again!

Such an interesting section! I feel the chess pieces lining up, although I don't yet know how Dickens will play them. Stephen Blackpool drowning in the darkness of his miserable circumstances. Louisa married to Bounderby. Louisa and Tom alluding to unforeseen explosions, foreshadowing, perhaps, a tragedy we may have begun to suspect given their lack of emotional outlet. A mysterious lady who visits yearly. And, young Sissy lost among them. Where is it all going???

P. S. I kinda want to punch Tom is the face at the end.

I have finally caught up :-) and must admit that I still have not completely warmed up to the novel. There are many social topics that are described here, but I still miss the "literary passion" and a real protagonist in this book. It does though stylize the factual side of the novel. Usually, Dickens introduces many characters that somehow play a role somewhere, but we have now already read more than 1/3. In his other chunkster novels his wrapping up started about 150 pages before the end. ;-)
Zulfiya, I agree with you that this effect on me might also be enforced by just having read Bleak House which is so different.

Zulfiya, I had the same impression of Stephen Blackpool's marriage imaging Dickens's own marriage. Blackpool describes his wife as loveless and cold and I do remember that Dickens (at least) said similar things about Catherine.
Rachael, on the other hand, seems to be the typical Dickensian angel taking care of the wife of the man she might otherwise marry.

The mysterious old woman appearing in chapter 12 could be Bounderby's mother. We only learned from his narration in an earlier chapter that he was abandoned and raised by his alcoholic grandmother. So his mother might still be alive similar to Alice's mother in Dombey and Son.

I am missing the in depth characters yet. Mr Bounderby is to me a creepy and rather arrogant man. I did not like the way he was described when meeting Stephen Blackpool. Though he himself comes from the gutter, he does not seem very respectful of his employees and the more unfortunate people. It might be that he sees in them just a failure in rising the way he did. However, this is all speculation and first impression, not very well founded. Maybe we will learn more about that.

At last, Louisa and her decision to marry Mr. Bounderby. I think Mr. Gradgrind had to realize for the first time the result of the seeds he had sown. Louisa was very cold and distant and factually based in her decision marking that any emotions and feelings are useless in life. I have wondered why she made that decision as she is still young and a better opportunity (even factually) could arise. The idea that this might have been for Tom's sake is interesting.
Tom is running out of his desperate life at home to Mr. Bounderby and Louisa is getting imprisoned into a desperate life at Mr. Bounderby's. How sad... And as mentioned before we are learning about 2 desperate marriages...

Okay. I'm going to be a dissenter here. I can agree that Dickens may have put into Stephen Blackpool's mouth the frustration of being unable to dissolve his marriage. But Their situations were completely different. The Mrs. may not have been the love of his life, but she was, to all accounts, a decent, nice woman who had her hands full raising their gigantic family, with little help from her spouse. Yes he worked a lot, but he also spent a lot of time showing off and bitching.

Sorry. Just needed to get that out. Sometimes I wanna punch Mr. Dickens in the head, as well. Apparently, I harbor great violence toward the dead and the fictional.

Renee wrote: "Sorry. Just needed to get that out. Sometimes I wanna punch Mr. Dickens in the head, as well. Apparently, I harbor great violence toward the dead and the fictional.
."

Easy target, Renee :-) They will never punch you back!:-)

Hedi wrote: "The mysterious old woman appearing in chapter 12 could be Bounderby's mother. We only learned from his narration in an earlier chapter that he was abandoned and raised by his alcoholic grandmother. So his mother might still be alive similar to Alice's mother in Dombey and Son."

An interesting thought, Hedi. According to Dickens and his narrative tradition, a stranger should somehow be related to one of the protagonists, and usually should reveal more on in the long run.

Renee wrote: "But Their situations were completely different. The Mrs. may not have been the love of his life, but she was, to all accounts, a decent, nice woman who had her hands full raising their gigantic family, with little help from her spouse."

How about a poetic license, Renee? You know, authors like to twist and turn their history and show it in a new light with the same undertones :-)

Absolutely, Z! But sometimes it seems a bit self-serving. And I don't want to over-sympathize with Mr. Dickens, because he can put his frustrations into the mouth of a truly miserable character. It's a great trick as a writer, but a rotten one as a man with the ear of public opinion. How easy to shift from sympathy for the wretched Stephen Blackpool to "poor" Mr. Dickens and his "loveless" marriage!

Hedi wrote: "At last, Louisa and her decision to marry Mr. Bounderby. I think Mr. Gradgrind had to realize for the first time the result of the seeds he had sown. Louisa was very cold and distant and factually based in her decision marking that any emotions and feelings are useless in life. I have wondered why she made that decision as she is still young and a better opportunity (even factually) could arise. The idea that this might have been for Tom's sake is interesting."

I was very troubled by Louisa's agreeing to this marriage-it seems that Tom pushed her into it by wanting her to be near, but I agree that at 20 it seems a strange choice, and while her father seemed to support it I felt that even he wouldn't have pushed the matter (at least not at this point) if she had said no, or even that she wanted to delay for a little while. It also seemed out of character for Louisa who I was coming to view as a rather strong-minded young woman, particularly as Bounderby has been so creepily attentive to her for so long. The situation reminded me of Edith Dombey, only there doesn't seem to have been any financial need for her to find a husband so quickly.

Renee wrote: "Okay. I'm going to be a dissenter here. I can agree that Dickens may have put into Stephen Blackpool's mouth the frustration of being unable to dissolve his marriage. But Their situations were comp..."

Agreed-I also notice that he has stationed Stephen's real love interest as the nurse for the infirm wife, the same way his sister-in-law had come into his house to support his wife in caring for the children and household. I wonder what his poor wife and family must have thought in reading all these novels with husbands bound to inadequate wives?

I'm behind because of papers, but I should catch up during the upcoming week.

As others have said, very sad that Louisa said 'yes' to Bounderby. And shame on Tom for pushing it into her. Someone else said it as well; I don't think she feels that she has any other life options. Now, a young girl could go off on her own and make it, but then, women had no such choice.

It's no wonder today that women marry later or chose not to marry. Who wants to marry into a loveless marriage to the wrong man?

The other part that made me sad was that it said that Louisa would be no longer close to Sissy because Sissy looked like she pitied Louisa when told the news.

I also felt sorry for Stephen. Just like today, the wealthy can do anything they want, but especially then, the middle class and poor were stuck in their lot in life.

Renee wrote: "Okay. I'm going to be a dissenter here. I can agree that Dickens may have put into Stephen Blackpool's mouth the frustration of being unable to dissolve his marriage. But Their situations were comp..."

I agree. Dickens wasn't perfect, even though his books are wonderful. I also don't like the way he treated his wife in real life. Not nice, to say the least.

Which reminds me, I was so busy last spring that I never read the biography on Dickens. Must do that over winter break. Every time I walk into the University library, I think about getting the book, but know that I don't have time to read it now.