Steven’s Comments (group member since Jun 14, 2010)

Steven’s comments from the Running, Track and Field group.

Douglas wrote:
"Where is Alan Webb? He set the American record in the mile only three years ago. Has he retired, or is he injured again?"

The Track and Field news issue mentions Webb. Basically he is recovering from Achilles surgery and training under Alberto Salazar and the Oregon Elite group. I got the impression that they are taking it slow regarding his recovery and that while he is training, he won't be racing any time real soon. Perhaps not till next season?
I'll keep everyone posted as I find out more information.

Douglas wrote: "Here is the line-up for the Bowerman Mile:

Asbel Kiprop (Kenya)
Youssef Kamel (Bahrain)
Haron Keitany (Kenya)
Bernard Lagat
Mohammed Moustaoui (Morocco)
Nicholas Kemboi (Kenya)
Leonel Manzano
Ami..."

Here's an article on the Bowerman mile, focusing on Oregon runner Andrew Wheating:
http://www.universalsports.com/news/a...

I should have mentioned the intensity of training the lead character did. He was "in the zone" as we used to say. And yes, it's been a while since I've been able to run roads, but I remember cars/trucks running you off the road (in the South it seems there are no sidewalks or even level shoulders to the sides of most roads! ) and dogs and items thrown...sheesh.
I wonder that America has any young distance runners...people just don't know what it takes to train.
While sixty 400's sounds like too much to me, my college cross country coach was a former champion marathoner and I could see Coach L thinking that was doable...
I prefer the Rick Wohlhuter method of less is more. Some long running, but for milers and 800 men cutting back and working on speed as the season progresses. Course I haven't coached in a long time and I haven't kept up with things other than to check meet results and cheer on current athletes vicariously (if that's the right word).

I forgot that Cunningham was a Kansas runner, and Wes Santee as well. Ryun was following in a great tradition.
I'm curious to see how Kansas track programs are faring these days, I'll have to go check out their website and the lists from Track and Field News.
My library copy of Cunningham's book is on the way, I'll post when I receive it and start it.

Since most of us in the group are in agreement that the story of Glenn Cunningham, the American miler who came back from severe burns in his youth to be a champion miler, is one of courage and inspiraion, I thought I'd like to suggest to everyone that perhaps we try to read his book Never Quit by Glenn Cunningham and discuss it. Is anyone else interested in this? I've ordered the book through my local library via library loan. If you can't find Glenn's book there is also American Miler: The Life and Times of Glenn Cunningham by Paul J. Kiell out there.

An upcoming mile race (the Bowerman Mile) at the Prefontaine Classic track meet which could set some records for fastest times run on American soil -
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/...

I'm the same way Ben. I'm way impressed with Doug's 4:08. To run under 4:00 minutes is still way cool to me (in the lexicon of my youth). Heck I was happy when I broke 5 minutes!
This discussion does remind me however. Possibly one of the greatest performances of all time (that most people don't know of) was Daniel Kipngetich Komen of Kenya's 2 mile world record. On 7/19/1997 he ran a 7:58.61 - 1st mile in 3:59.2 and 2nd mile in 3:59.4. See the link below:
http://faculty.randolphcollege.edu/tm...

Along the same vein of discussion - the July, 2010 issue of Track and Field News has an article on who are the main and up and coming American milers at this time, along with a list of every American runner who has ever broken 4 minutes in the mile.
Of interest to me were a few facts,
- the 1st American to break 4 minutes was Don Bowden of the University of California who ran a 3:58.7 on 6/01/1957. He never ran any faster.
- as of 4/24/2010 348 American runners have run the mile in under 4 minutes at least once. The latest to add his name to the list is Steve Sodaro of the University of California, who ran a 3:59.42.
- Jim Ryun was the 13th American to break 4 minutes and the first High Schooler to do so when he ran 3:59.0 on 6/05/1964 in a race at Compton. He finished 4th in the race, behind 3 other Americans who were breaking 4 minutes for the 1st time - Archie San Romani, Jr. of the University of Oregon (3:57.6), Morgan Groth of Oregon State (3:57.9), and Bob Day of UCLA (3:58.9).
San Romani and Groth never improved their times, while Day and Ryun both did.
Anyway, the magazine is worth a look see if you can get ahold of a copy.

Some more comments on Once a Runner: A Novel by John L. Parker. I remember there was some discussion at the time the book came out, as to whether it was a realistic depiction of the life of a collegiate distance runner. The consensus seemed to be that it was, although not everybody that I worked with agreed on that. One bone of contention was that some thought the main character went out drinking beer too often. As one who lived through the 70's I can say that going out after running to "have a beer" was pretty common. I remember the New Zealand runners such as John Walker and Rod Dixon were fairly famous about it. On a personal level most of the cross country runners I knew at Georgia State University and the more prominent road runners that I knew in Atlanta went out to drink beer on a fairly regular basis. These were mostly young people, in the liberal 70's, and the drinking age was 18, so I think the book is fairly realistic in it's depictions, at least for the time.
Another aspect of the book that I found interesting and saw some evidence of was that the track and cross country runners were basically considered step children by the bigger programs such as Football and Basketball at the collegiate level. The pressure from the football coach in the book regarding forcing the track runners to cut their hair and conform to the same dress code as the football players is similar to several real life episodes in the news at the time. The main one I remember was where javelin thrower Bill Skinner of Tennessee ( a 31 year old former veteran at the time) was kicked off the Volunteer track team in the early 70's for having a mustache.
Here's a couple of links:
http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/disp...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid...

I read the book about a year or two after it came out. I'm guessing 1980, when I was working at the Phidippides warehouse in Atlanta. Phidippides was a retail company developed by Jeff Galloway, an Atlanta runner who is still involved in popularizing running and the sport of track and field. The reason I mention this is that the book was much discussed at the warehouse, where just about all of us employees were runners to one degree or another. I thought the book pretty much captured the essence of the 1970's running mind set, especially at the collegiate level and remember it pretty fondly.

At her prime Mary Decker Slaney held just about every American and several World Records at distances from 800 meters to 10,000 meters. That, along with her 1983 World Championships victories put her up there in strong consideration.
Grete Waitz is remembered today as a Marathoner, but she also ranked 1st in the World in 1975 over 1500 meters, so she was pretty versatile.
Tatyana Kazankina of the Soviet Union was Olympic champ in 1976 and 1980 over 1500 meters.
Recently, Tirunesh Dibaba and Meseret Defar, both of Ethiopia have been trading world records and championships back and forth, especially at 5000 meters.
Among current Americans, Shalane Flanagan is proving very versatile over the whole range of long distances, as is Jenny Barringer.

http://www.oregonlive.com/trackandfie...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer...

I'm not sure who I think is the Greatest of All Time, I'm going to have think about it some more, but I think Waitz, Slaney and Kazankina all merit some strong consideration...

Also in the late 60's and early 70's I remember being REALLY impressed with the sprinting of Chi Cheng of Taiwan.

If looking at longevity, then Irena Szewinska of Poland and Merlene Ottey of Jamaica probably run away with the prize.
No one has come close to the records of Florence Griffith-Joyner or Marita Koch.
Among Americans I'm a personal fan of some of the sprinters from the 60's and the 70's and 80's such as Wilma Rudolph, Wyomia Tyus, and Evelyn Ashford.
If pressed I think I'm going to vote for Szewinska but it's close...

I know we've debated as a group which person is the "greatest miler of all time". I pretty much agreed with those who thought Jim Ryun as his prime was the GOAT, but I don't know that any consensus was reached. However, that discussion got me to thinking about who might be the greatest "long distance runner of all time". There are a myriad of people who could contest for that one I would think. Leaving out Phidippides of ancient Greece, some of my suggestions would be:
-Paavo Nurmi of Finland, winner of 9 Gold and 3 Silver Medals in the Olympics between 1920 and 1928, also world record holder at distances from the 1500 to the 20 kilometer race;
-Emil Zátopek of Czechoslovakia, the only runner to win the 5000 meters, the 10,000 meters and the Marathon in the same Olympics (1952) as well as being a world record holder at distances from 5000 to 30,000 meters.
-Lasse Virén of Finland, winner of Gold Medals in the 5000 and 10,000 in both the 1972 and 1976 Olympics. Viren was also a world record holder for both the 5000 and 10,000 meters during his career.
-Haile Gebrselassie of Ethiopia, Gold medal winner in the 1996 and 2000 Olympics at 10,000 meters, also a World Record holder at distances from the 5000 meters to the Marathon.
There are a lot of other names I'm sure could be added to this discussion. I'm interested in what other members of the group think. One question I would pose, is the Olympic Medal or lately the World Championship Medal, the best way to measure who is the GOAT ? What about those athletes who missed the Olympics due to boycotts or injury?
Also, some athletes set World Records, but never won a Gold Medal, Ron Clarke of Great Britain comes to mind in this regard.
Then of course there are those fierce competitors such as Steve Prefontaine of the US and Rod Dixon of New Zealand, who weren't afraid to race anybody over just about any distance...

Hi everyone. I'm Steve, a school counselor in my fifties, married, kids, cats, dogs, and books pretty much fill up my house.
I was a runner for years, but foot and knee problems pretty much restrict me to walking and weight training for fitness now. I love track and field still though. I coached it at the high school level for both boys and girls in the 70's, 80's and early 90's. My favorite events are the 400, 800, and 1600 relay, because those are the ones I competed in in high school, but I pretty much enjoy the whole sport, field events included.
One of the things I like about the sport is that people of any age can do it, via fun runs, road races, all comer track meets, etc. and also the fact that a person can be a "winner" just by setting personal bests or improving, i.e. competing against themselves.
I'm a track nut who enjoys the statistics and history of the sport. Favorite athletes include Steve Prefontaine (American, Distance runner, 1970's), John Walker (New Zealand, Distance runner, 1970's), Ben Jipcho (Kenyan, Distance runner, 1960's and 70's), Brian Oldfield (American, Shot, 1970's) and Lopez Lomong (American, 1500 meters, 2000's) and a whole lot of others...

I want to believe that Bolt is doing these great times and is clean. The sad thing about the state of track and field and many other sports for that matter is that one has to be cynical, if for no other reason than the many times people have appeared to be legit, only for us fans to find out that they weren't.
Still, "hope springs eternal..."

Douglas wrote: "Ben, please keep us informed about the progress of your book, and let us know when it will be published. We all will benefit from and enjoy your collection of essays.

Like Steven and you, I too r..."

I think it's really cool you got your coach to switch to black uniforms for that year in high school by the way. The years I coached high school track were a lot of fun. I'm not involved in high school athletics any more, but I wonder if it's as much fun as it used to be, for both the kids and the coaches. I know there are a lot more rules and restrictions and most schools are bigger than they were when I was first starting, so I assume that fewer kids have the opportunity to be on teams. Still, I think any time a young person can be involved in an after school activity be it athletic or otherwise, it's usually a good thing. And of course I've stated that track is one of my favorite activities because everybody involved can feel like they're a winner in one way or another...

New Zealand during the 1970's and into the early '80's had some great distance runners. Besides Walker, there was Rod Dixon who was a champion 1500 man who moved up to the 5000 meters very successfully, Dick Quax who was a 10,000 meter runner and Jack Foster, a marathoner who was a champion runner at age 41! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Foster
also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Quax
also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Dixon

While looking up the links on this I came across a fact I had totally forgotten. Dixon was so versatile that he eventually moved up to the Marathon and won the New York City Marathon in 1983. Awesome...

Your book sounds interesting Ben, I'd like to know when it comes out.
Getting back to our original topic of "who's the greatest miler of all time?" I'd like to throw out another possibility who some of you may have never heard of :
Walter Goodall George (9 September 1858 – 4 June 1943)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_G...

George was a runner whose main days of competition were in the 1880's. He ran a world record of 4:12 3/4 in 1886, a time which stood as the record for 30 years. He is also supposed to have run a time trial of4:10 1/5, a time which would not be bettered until 1931.
A couple of books which detail his story are:
The Milers by Cordner Nelson and Beer and Brine: The Making of Walter George, Athletics' First Superstar by Rob Hadgraft. The title of the latter refers to George's habit of bathing in brine because he thought it was healthy.

I don't think it's dorky Ben, but then those are some of my favorite runners too. I'd forgotten about Joachim Cruz and how good he was, especially in 1984. Here's a video of Steve Cram and Cruz racing the 800 in 1985:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnJ1_I...