Traveller’s Comments (group member since Apr 18, 2013)

Traveller’s comments from the The Transition Movement group.

Discussion thread for Six Degrees by Mark Lynas.

Hi again. :)
Okay, what we could do is this: How about: anybody can post here if they would like us to open a thread for any particular book, which anybody who knows how to link the header of the thread to the book itself can then do. (In this folder).

(I wouldn't mind opening the threads, actually, if that carries your approval, Ted?)

Btw, the Vanderveer book that I mentioned is on our bookshelf - you added it on 2015/08/18, Ted.

Hi all!
What a good idea, Ted! Since I already own and have partly read, I am inclined to choose The Environmental Ethics and Policy Book: Philosophy, Ecology, Economics, but that book is rather outdated, so I might give it a short review and...hold on - are we allowed to do more than one book, and are the reviews going to be posted here on the group site or will we be linking to them in a special thread, or how is this going to work?

:) Me too!

instead of emphasizing cap-and-trade schemes and penalties on greenhouse gas emissions -- strategies considered to be most efficient by many economists -- policymakers should begin by providing benefits through green industrial policies, such as subsidies and tax rebates.

That sounds sensible to me.

Oh boy, I see I have a whole big thread to catch up on! Thanks for all the news!

Ted wrote: "Traveller wrote: "I need to figure out a plan for making the "transition" mentioned above (heh-heh). I may ask for volunteers to help at some point.
.."

Sure. I don't mind helping at all, but I do need prodding...

I must really put a post-it on my PC to remember to contribute more here. :(

Ted, yes, I wonder if the problem in this group might not be that members simply don't have the time to fit in the books under discussion - I suppose it has been a reason for my own inactivity here.
In light of this, I agree with you that a format such as that in Aubrey's group, where the focus is on topics rather than specific books, might be the solution to the problem.

So, how about we start a section where members can start threads around topics that concern them?

David wrote: "...we'd likely also need to end our dependence on oil .."

We're going to have to some time or another, and the sooner we start working on it, the better... but tell that to those who have vested interests in the oil industry...

Ted wrote: "The next chapter in the book, which I'll try to post on in a day or two, does mention B-corporations, which is one approach to the "higher profit forever" mentality. Another possible one is the simple argument that constantly rising profits are really no more possible than constantly increasing population or consumption..."

I suppose legislation might be an answer, but I'm always hesitant since legislation and similar regulation can be a two-edged sword. But perhaps sometimes a necessary sword?

But how to get it through?

..and then we come back full circle to the issue of Big Business's vice grip on politics in more ways than one. It's almost a self-perpetuating system, and it frightens me that it seems so hard to break out of that cycle.

Anyway, I admit that I've not been keeping up with the book at all. :P Sorry.

Ted, I feel ashamed that I've not kept up with this group, especially after you've done such a lot of work of such a high caliber here.

I have made a solemn promise to myself that I'm going to catch up and comment next week. Thanks for all your wonderful work here!

Wow, what an amazing resource for information this is Ted! I'm going to make a mark on my calender to catch up on this and comment, but it's going to have to be for the 15th of October, I'm afraid, when I'll suddenly have a lot of free time (hopefully); since there is a LOT of work to go through here.

Thank you for all of your hard work! It's not unappreciated. :)

Yes, that is well put, Ted. :)

Ted wrote: "Traveller wrote: "the average man on the street ... sort of (seems) to believe that: "If anything was wrong, the authorities ... would take care of it, right?" "

Traveller, does that really seem t..."

I do apologize in advance; since I'm reading other books on this subject, I can get a bit mixed up about which book says what, but one of the other books framed the problem nicely; there is indeed a school of thought out there in the world in general that seems to believe that we needn't worry too much about anything because human ingenuity will find an answer for the fixes humanity gets itself into.

Their reasoning would go something like: If we run out of land, for instance, we could always reclaim the deserts and somehow make them fertile; and scientists will somehow find a way to cool down the atmosphere, and all the combustion gases we release, will somehow be soaked up by Mother Nature, or we'll find a way of getting rid of them, and if we run out of water, we can always desalinate the sea and use that water; etc. etc.

If people want to rationalize their own behaviour, they will find ways to, no matter how improbable their scenarios might appear. If people want to cling to something problematic, they will hide their heads in the sand, hoping the problems will just go away.

The irony of it all is to me that the naysayers are saying "scientists will find a way to fix it" , and yet, the naysayers are the ones who are 'not believing' what the scientists are telling them.

It's like, the doctor is telling you: You have to quit smoking/exercise more/ eat less cholesterol, and you say: "Naah, I'm just going to carry on as is, bc if something happens to me, the medical profession will have ways to cure me."

Aloha wrote: "Oh, ten pages a week is very doable. Let me see what I'm supposed to be up to now."

That will be nice, Aloha, and, IIRC, you've got this book on your list already, right?

Elisabeth wrote: "I am reading the book on the computer and can't figure out how to copy and paste a quote. So, ugh. The quotes others have mentioned were ones I had marked too. I also noticed a couple reference to ..."

Yes, we do seem scarily close to a few points of no return. What frightens me is how there is just just a huge lack of awareness of these issues with the average man on the street. They'd vaguely heard of the issues, but don't view it as anything to do with them. They sort of seem to believe that: "If anything was wrong, the authorities, (that ephemeral "they") would take care of it, right?"

Ruth, what are you reading it on? On a PC Kindle or a PDF reader?

That is some wonderful input there, Ted, thanks very much. I will most certainly research the 'types' mentioned there.

I also think that people need to co-ordinate to get things like info fliers out there. Giving people facts in the sort of :Did you know? format on a flier that you hand out, or stick 'em onto the back of public toilet doors. Now I just need to design a nice flyer.

Okay, guys, a question: how does one try and get the idea of pollution and global warming and the seriousness thereof across to the man on the street? When people in my area light fires whether for burning leaves in a bonfire, a BBQ or a indoors fireplace, if I try and broach the subject they'll either say something like: "Oh lord no, not another tree-hugger!" or: "This little bit I am burning here is a only a drop in the ocean."

Nobody seems to take this seriously at all...

This is very useful, thank you, Ted!

I love the group home page banner as well, I must say!

Just had a look at the e-book version, and I must admit that I was pretty sad not to be able to make out the timeline. Oh well... maybe the diagram is online somewhere..?