Comments on Books White People Need to Read - page 6

Joel wrote: "Klinton wrote: "Bla bla bla bla"

TL;DR"

I rest my case.

Here's a question for some of the more frequent posters in this topic: why should specifically white people read these books?

Youp wrote: "Here's a question for some of the more frequent posters in this topic: why should specifically white people read these books?"

Dear Youp, that is a question that has been asked and answered by the white lady who created it.

"Books White People Need To Read
Based on an article from The Good Men Project called "Why I Don't Want to Talk About Race" by Steve Locke, this list is a way for white people to learn more about race, whiteness & oppression. It is focused on non-fiction & memoir and comes from an American viewpoint - more are welcome! Please add your ideas in a respectful, open-hearted manner & tell us why you picked the books you added.

"There needs to be discussion among people who think of themselves as white. They need to unpack that language, that history, that social position and see what it really offers them, and what it takes away from them."

This list is for non-fiction & memoir written from a progressive, anti-racist point of view."

Klinton wrote: "Youp wrote: "Here's a question for some of the more frequent posters in this topic: why should specifically white people read these books?"

Dear Youp, that is a question that has been asked and an..."

Dear Klinton,

That is:

A) Not an answer from a frequent poster in this topic.

And B) Not an answer to my question. It just states that white people can learn about race, whiteness and oppression from it, and that there needs to be a discussion among white people. Are these topics not important to people with other skin colors?

So here's my question again:

In the words of the more frequent posters here (such as Klinton), why do white people specifically need to learn about these topics?

Dear Youp,

I clearly see where this is going so I will leave you with this! These are not my words, I did not create this list and I was quite clearly quoting the creator of this list.

In answer to your question my previous post stated, "to learn more about race, whiteness & oppression and to create a discussion about it."

Whether you agree with her intentions or not are irrelevant. Although I highly doubt the intentions of the list creator were as incendiary as some would suggest, or more pertinently, as their sensitivities would lead them to believe.

Kind Regards

Klinton wrote: "Dear Youp,

I clearly see where this is going..."

Yeah, me too. You went exactly where I thought you would go :').

Youp wrote: "Klinton wrote: "Dear Youp,

I clearly see where this is going..."

Yeah, me too. You went exactly where I thought you would go :')."

Indeed Youp,

I went directly to the answer to your question!

TWICE!

Klinton wrote: "Youp wrote: "Klinton wrote: "Dear Youp,

I clearly see where this is going..."

Yeah, me too. You went exactly where I thought you would go :')."

Indeed Youp,

I went directly to the answer to ..."

Yeah...uuhm...no. Sorry. You failed to answer the question in your own words (even stating 'these are not my words'), and didn't address the actual question. I'll rephrase the question if you'd like:

Why is this list less important to, for example, Asian, Latino, Arab or Black people?

Klinton believes that only White people can be racist. You see, he believes that White people are different than people of other races. He believes that all White people are guilty of the sins committed by other White people who they don't even know. All White people are the same, you see. White people are born guilty because of the color of their skin. White people are a monolithic group who are less human than other races, because White people are a source of terrible evil upon other, superior races. As such, it is the obligation of White people to read about the supremacy of other races, and to read about all the terrible things they've done as a race throughout history. And you better agree with him, or you are a racist yourself!

Listen here, as long as black people live in a society created by whites, they will always inferior and therefore angry. That is why we should separate. There is no other way. American Indians hate black people generally so we will have to keep them away from the reservations and give the blacks a plot of land somewhere they can build pyramid spaceships and find the cure for cancer.

Joel wrote: "Klinton believes that only White people can be racist. You see, he believes that White people are different than people of other races. He believes that all White people are guilty of the sins comm..."

Wow. That seems a bit...racist to me But it's no problem, since black people cannot be racist.

Racist list is racist...

Dr.OliverHelesfai wrote: "Racist list is racist..."

White people cannot be the victim of racism, sir. Matter of fact, they are, without exception, all racists themselves. Some people in this topic can enlighten you some more on these universal facts, but they seem awfully quiet when asked about their specific opinions.

Dear readers,

In the time I took to read a small portion of all of these posts, I could have started a book on the list and gotten at least 1/4 of the way through.

Whether the intention of the original creator of this list was racist or not, it got my attention and I was curious about what the list included. I have been working on my own education about racism and racial inequity for years now, but there is always more to read.

A resource some of you might find informative is this link to a way to uncover your implicit biases. These are the biases that you hold unknowingly, in case anyone isn't sure.

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

In my opinion and experience, debating racism, white privilege and bias online is not very constructive...and this thread seems to be a prime example.

Could it be a possibility to alter the name of the list to make everyone more comfortable? If the originator of the list is not comfortable with this idea, then I would perhaps question the intent behind it. If that person is willing, then how about offering suggestions instead of consuming the thread with debates that seem to be going nowhere?

How about:

Learning About Race: For White people and others who want to
deconstruct racism

Books to help deconstruct racism in America

White Privilege and "the other" experience in America

Addressing White Privilege, Racism and Implicit Bias: for all that seek social and racial justice

Those are just a few ideas...they aren't as catchy or reactionary, but perhaps still encompass the meaning of the list.

In Peace and Understanding...

Joel wrote: "Klinton believes that only White people can be racist. You see, he believes that White people are different than people of other races. He believes that all White people are guilty of the sins comm..."

Discussing this with you guys is extremely futile. You have your own Nazi/supremacist vision and I understanding and there is no way around that.
I have not once said anywhere that only white people can be racist, please produce the quote since you have attributed this to my name.
You are making things up as you go along. Your assumptions only make an ass out of you and totally expose your lack of understanding, empathy and intelligence.

Lastly, you are the only person here mentioning white people as a monolithic group or in terms of racial superiority, which is telling.

As mentioned before I have a life and have no time to argue with idiots, you will only bring me down to your level and beat me with experience.

I await the backlash with glee

Youp wrote: "Joel wrote: "Klinton believes that only White people can be racist. You see, he believes that White people are different than people of other races. He believes that all White people are guilty of ..."


The ideas being attributed to me are not mine and I implore you to brandish these quotes if you can. I totally refute these claims, these are not my ideas or ideals but the ideas and ideals of a white supremacist used to justify his racist/fascist stance.

You are exposing yourself more and more with every character you type.

Good Day white supremacist Joel, white supremacist Youp, white supremacist casus.belli and the rest!

Ps. Have you said your 'hail Hitler' yet Today?

Doris wrote: ""The title is racist against white people!" is the most common comment here because the Western world is mainly white and they get to pick what is offensive, regardless of how little sense it makes..."

If blacks want to learn about their ''origin's history, they are free to attend a school in nigeria. A western country should cater to the population living there since the the begining of time and in western history blacks are seen as victims and whites the oppressors.

Is there a list of books that black people need to read?

Lianne (The Towering Pile) wrote: "There is no assumption being made here that all white people are racist. There's a difference between having white privilege (which all white people have, regardless of anything else), and being ra..."

You're THE problem in America today

Athens wrote: "Does the name of this list strike anybody as racist?

To be more direct, the name of this list is racist.

How can this list exist without a presupposed and prejudiced stereotype of what white peop..."

Racism against white people is a laughable concept.

To be more direct, you can't be racist against white people.

Cassandra wrote: "Lianne, I think it's halarious that you seem to think that you are the only one here that's heard of white privilege or intersectionality, or any other term you'd like to throw out from feminism 10..."

You can't be racist against white people. White people a) invented the concept of race to protect their ability to exploit enslaved black people and Irish people (who were not considered white until mid 20th century) and b) do not suffer in any way in society due to their race.

Wanting to educate white people in general about the experiences of POC, the consequences of racism, and what can be done to work towards equality is not racist.

If you would like to maintain your white privilege over POC without being called on it, you are not alone. But the time is passed for that, so get used to being uncomfortable.

Saying it's racist to say white people have something to learn is in itself a racist statement. If you want to be able to say that YOU are not racist, you need to reevaluate your attitude on the title of this list. And take responsibility for what you have that others don't.

These books need to be removed ASAP:

#163: Mein Kampf - Adolph Hitler
#168: Don't Make the Black Kids Angry: The Hoax of Black Victimization and Those Who Enable It - Colin Flaherty
#245: Mugged: Racial Damagoguery from the Seventies to Obama - Ann Coulter
#280: After the Arab Spring: How Islamists Hijacked the Middle East Revolts - John R. Bradley
#313: White Identity: Racial Consciousness in the 21st Century - Jared Taylor
#414: Easy Meat: Inside Britain's Grooming Gang Scandal - Peter McLoughlin
#414: Co. Aytch: A Confederate Memoir of the Civil War - Sam Watkins
#508: Black Nazis II! Ethnic Minorities in Hitler's Armed Forces: An Unbiased History - Veronica Clark
#534: Black Nazis! A Study of Racial Ambivalence in Nazi Germany's Military Strategy - Veronica Clark
#566: The Race Card: White Guilt, Black Resentment, and the Assault on Truth and Justice - Peter Collier
#593: My Awakening: A Path to Racial Understanding - David Duke
#601: The International Jew - Henry Ford

These are works of hate propaganda clearly added by racist trolls just to be threatening.

Emma wrote: "These books need to be removed ASAP:

#163: Mein Kampf
#168: Don't Make the Black Kids Angry
#245: Mugged
#280: After the Arab Spring
#313: White Identity
#414: Easy Meat
#414: Co. Aytch
#508: Blac..."

Why? White people should only read anti-white progressive propaganda and nothing more? I think people should read those books as well as social justice warrior books or whatever they want and be smart enough to make decisions for themselves, don't you think?

Emma wrote: "These books need to be removed ASAP:

#163: Mein Kampf
#168: Don't Make the Black Kids Angry
#245: Mugged
#280: After the Arab Spring
#313: White Identity
#414: Easy Meat
#414: Co. Aytch
#508: Blac..."

The fact that you lumped Hitler and Ann Coulter tells me that you simply consider anyone who's ideas you don't like as Nazis. No intellectual nuance whatsoever.

And you say that they were added "to be threatening". Who are they thretening and what is their threat? What are they threatening to do? Or is it simply that you consider that ideas you don't like amounts to the same thing as physical violence, a sentiment that is all too common these days on the intolerant left?

Joel wrote: "Emma wrote: "These books need to be removed ASAP:

#163: Mein Kampf
#168: Don't Make the Black Kids Angry
#245: Mugged
#280: After the Arab Spring
#313: White Identity
#414: Easy Meat
#414: Co. Ayt..."

Don’t be silly, there are plenty of white supremacists who aren’t Nazis. George Wallace, Thomas Jefferson, Bill Clinton, Steve Bannon. In fact, as far as I can remember, Hitler is the only Nazi on that list.

I am very intolerant of racism in all its forms, yes. I’m glad we understand each other.

Emma wrote: "I am very intolerant of racism in all its forms, yes. I’m glad we understand each other."

The problem is that your definition of racism is overly broad. It includes anyone whose opinion you don't like. It's an intellectually lazy way to dismiss ideas you don't want to confront.

Joel wrote: "Emma wrote: "I am very intolerant of racism in all its forms, yes. I’m glad we understand each other."

The problem is that your definition of racism is overly broad. It includes anyone whose opini..."

Or maybe I have confronted them and determined they are racist. You don’t know me; don’t assume.

Why? White people should only read anti-white progressive propaganda and nothing more? I think people should read those books as well as social justice warrior books or whatever they want and be smart enough to make decisions for themselves, don't you think?

The requirements of the list are made pretty explicit in the description: Non-fiction; anti-racist. On a different list I might tolerate books I find abhorrent. Not this one.

If you personally would like others to be more racist, I support your right to free speech: spread the hate, if you must. But I and those who started this list would really like you to stop, and we want to make a list of books that might help you understand why, if you bothered to read and take them seriously. And be warned--do not think for a second that if I see your hate somewhere, I won't condemn it and use everything I have to expose it for the cancer that it is.

A much better list, one that's not racist, is this one:

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

Emma wrote: "Why? White people should only read anti-white progressive propaganda and nothing more? I think people should read those books as well as social justice warrior books or whatever they want and be sm..."

Lady, this whole list is racist. Singeling a particular racial or ethnic group has by definition become "racist". In this case white or pan-European, just like if i made a list of books black people need to read and placed The Bell Curve as the top choice. If people want to claim perpetial victimhood then I guess that's what they do. It's better than facing reality and looking into the mirror to see where they themselves went wrong. Well...I guess that would require some painful self-reflection and that would be too uncomfortable so we can't have that.

Casus•Belli wrote: I guess that would require some painful self-reflection and that would be too uncomfortable so we can't have that

But isn't that your entire objection to this list? You don't want to reflect on how your own whiteness affects your life and the lives of others?

Emma wrote: "Casus•Belli wrote: I guess that would require some painful self-reflection and that would be too uncomfortable so we can't have that

But isn't that your entire objection to this list? You don't wa..."

Not really. You see...like most white people, i don't actually have any of this exalted "privilege" of which you speak. I have to work hard to put food on the table and deal at times with enormous stress of everyday living. There are probably millions or non-white people in the world who have more than i do and struggle less. So, do i really care about the struggles of non-whites in America. No... no i do not. Sure, i talk to black people that tell me this or that. They tell me about slavery and Jim Crow and how white people commuted "genocide", but what does that have to do with me? Most of the white ancestors were people of their times and had it been the other way, white people would have gotten killed and kicked off their land. The mongols nearly conquered Europe and a far-eastern people, namely the Turks, murdered 2 million white Christians in Anatolia. Europens were being enslaved by various Turkic people theough the centuries as well. Blacks were enslaving other blacks. Blacks in Africa fight for power and territoty and regard other Africans as subhuman. The Arabs had the biggest slave trade in history and basically overan the middle east and North Africa. Looking at it all, white people (pan-European) are relatively civil through out history as compared to some and the ones doing the actual colonizing came from just a handful of countries and not the majority. Even with the colonzing and certain uncooth behaviors, they still managed to build infastructire and brought certain immenities to certain territories that contributed to higher education and health care. So yeah...do i want to reflect? No, absolutely not. I won't play this game of butthurt and muh feelings with anyone.

So yeah...do i want to reflect? No, absolutely not. I won't play this game of butthurt and muh feelings with anyone.

Okay, but if that’s going to be your attitude, I don’t see why you get to complain about this list existing. You’d rather amplify your own struggles than consider the realities of the world around you. But you, Casus Belli, have no actual casus belli. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. The systems of this world exist and persist whether you want to believe or not.

The key thing you’re ignoring in your little history lesson is that this idea of race that we have—pan-European vs pan-African vs pan-Asian that is based largely on skin tone—didn’t exist until very recently, around 1620 or so. At that time, Anglo-Saxon landowners held slaves of all colors, with the Irish being treated as a lesser race just as much as African and American Indian slaves. Then, a rebellion (Bacon’s rebellion) with all enslaved peoples was attempted and was quashed. But the wealthy Anglo-Saxons knew that if all slaves organized against them, they wouldn’t be able to hold their own. So they elevated Irish slaves, treated them less harshly, gave them authority over black slaves, even gave them land and a small wage. They said that people with white skin couldn’t tolerate slavery, but that people with dark skin needed it, thrived under it, because they were more like animals. And in this way, they created a false sense of sameness between the Irish and the Anglo-Saxons, so that poor whites would side with rich whites, and preserve Anglo-Saxon supremacy.

That was the creation of America’s expendable white underclass, and it exists today as much as it ever did. And as long as those in power keep them believing they deserve more and better than other races, they’ll work to keep other races down—even against their own self-interest.

If you want to know more: White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America

You see...like most white people, i don't actually have any of this exalted "privilege" of which you speak. I have to work hard to put food on the table and deal at times with enormous stress of everyday living.

This tells me you don’t really understand what privilege means. It’s not about any one person’s individual circumstances. It has to do with social realities. In my city, the area where the wealthy people live gets the snow plowed first, while poorer areas have to wait. Most of these wealthy people probably have no idea that they’re getting preferential treatment, and many of them probably worked for the money they have, but that doesn’t change how things are. If you’re rich, you’ll be able to get to work the day after a blizzard. If you’re poor, you might have to wait up to a week. And folks with hourly wage jobs will miss out on hours and therefore pay that they need for things like food.

I’m not trying to hold white people responsible for a past they weren’t involved in. I just want people to take responsibility for what they can do in the present to lessen the impact of inequality. Like vote for the guy who wants to do something about the unfair snowplow policy, even if you’re living in the wealthy part of town—American ingenuity is legendary; surely we can create a system that works for everyone.

Emma wrote: "So yeah...do i want to reflect? No, absolutely not. I won't play this game of butthurt and muh feelings with anyone.

Okay, but if that’s going to be your attitude, I don’t see why you get to compl..."

Yeah...I'm a "snowflake", or maybe I just like the way the name Casus Belli sounds. Did you think of that? Probably not. I'm very aware of the Irish people's struggles in early America as I'm aware of Italian and many others. But that was a different America and a different landscape, as well as an era that had many Europeans antoginistic towards one another for territorial and spiritual reasons, not simply a matter or ethnicity. But yeah, that America was much different economically that today. If you cared so much about the poor and workers rights then you wouldn't favor mass immigration (legal or illegal) into the country. The poor are the ones being hit hardest by it with losing wages and having their neighborhoods trashed and their children's schools turned into mini-prisons. Your petty little argument about who gets their driveway plowed first just shows me how utterly blind and privileged you are to the true problems that affect the working classes. And no... I'm not trying to highlight my struggles. I'm no different than many working-middle class Americans who go through the same hurdles eveyday: feeding their families, trying to educate their children. We don't have time for butthurt and petty nonsense that you obviously have plenty of time for. And so...i bid you adieu and farewell. Good luck with your driveway being the firts to get plowed, and your priviledged life of virtue-signaling everyone. It's been real. ✌✌

Casus•Belli wrote: "Emma wrote: "So yeah...do i want to reflect? No, absolutely not. I won't play this game of butthurt and muh feelings with anyone.

Okay, but if that’s going to be your attitude, I don’t see why you..."

-I was making a play on words with your username. I think that was fairly evident.
-The snowplow thing was an analogy to help you understand privilege, not meant to be taken so literally. I picked it because it's a very simple, quantifiable example of a concept you don't seem to understand. Not because it had relevance to the conversation. It's also moot, because this issue was addressed several years ago, and things are better. The point is you take the principle and apply it to other situations. Like, for example, how you know what it’s like to struggle, but you don’t know what it’s like for things to get so bad that you’ll walk across Mexico to knock on the doors of a country that clearly doesn’t want you.
-My street gets plowed first because I live down the street from a hospital and ambulances need to get through. Nice for me, but it doesn’t mean there ain’t a payday loan joint around the corner.
-It wasn’t that different an America. Women can vote and we have smart phones. But the Calvinistic values system that we use to excuse the existence of privilege when we’re supposed to be created equal? Going strong.

The point you seem to be missing: all this grumbling about how other people are seeking change and justice IS just butthurt and petty nonsense. You’re saying that you don’t have privilege because some black guy somewhere has it better than you. That’s not logic; that’s just bitterness. You accuse me of being the snowflake, but I’m not the one who can’t handle being asked to take responsibility for himself as a citizen in a democracy. You accuse me of hypocrisy for not engaging with your beliefs, but I’m not the one who refuses to imagine that his own experience of the world may not be universal, even when confronted with facts, sources, and arguments that have an actual point beyond, “My life is hard so shut up.” I’m pretty clearly not the one in this conversation who needs to feel special—that would be you. That’s the butthurt that makes YOU the snowflake here. The beautiful and unique snowflake who melts if someone somewhere makes a list of books about racial justice, and has to take time out of his life to claim the list is somehow hurtful to him. Even though he’s working so hard to feed his family he couldn’t possibly have time for anything petty, like complaining about discrimination 🙄 I may not be a member of the working class, but at least I didn’t vote for a guy who says he’s a friend to the working class, and then enacts tariffs that are literally closing down factories and tax plans that inflate corporate earnings without giving the struggling working class any relief whatsoever. People who work as hard as you shouldn’t have to struggle so much, not in America. I believe that. But I don’t think your struggles give you license to ignore the pain of the other humans around you.

I wish you genuine good luck with your struggles, and a good year for your family in 2019. 🖖

You see...like most white people, i don't actually have any of this exalted "privilege" of which you speak. I have to work hard to put food on the table and deal at times with enormous stress of everyday living.

I don't think you understand white privilege. I'm white, and while I worked hard in high school, took my exams early, volunteered like crazy, and held a job all so I could get into a school and get a scholarship (WOOO I GOT IT!), it doesn't mean that I don't have privileges.

Property taxes were higher where I lived in my white little neighborhood and therefore the schools received more funding. More funding meant better programs and we had a counselor that worked with kids on an individual level to help them get into college. A lot of urban schools don't have this luxury. THAT is part of a privilege I had that many white kids have that many black kids don't.

Do you know that white people are more likely to get a call back when they send a resume to an employer? Studies have been done on this. Even though white and black are both looking for a job, we all ready have an advantage in that we have white names and are well.. white. Doesn't mean we don't work hard when we get our job, but our chances of getting it start right out of the gate.

Some white people / rich people have more advantages than others. Not all of us have our parents to pay for things (I certainly didn't have rich parents). But just being white, is an advantage in America. It just is. And that's why a lot of these books on this list are SO important for us to read. So we can empathize with POC, we can learn what our privileges are (we may not have even realized some of them!), we can learn why a lot of minorities still struggle and "just work harder" is not the answer to a lot of the race issues we are currently facing in America.

I use to not understand a lot of the issues faced by POC, because I was ignorant. I moved to a part of the city that had more diversity and was shocked to learn about things that Black people or Hispanic people worry about or have to deal with that I never considered or simply take for granted. I started to listen to my new friends and learned that, even though I work hard and certainly don't have a rich background or a lot of privileges that other kids have, I still have a step up. And it's heart breaking to think about. It was uncomfortable to admit at first, and it was hard to hear. But, it was true. And sometimes the truth sucks.

I think white people SHOULD read a lot of these books. We need to learn so that ignorant statements, like the one you made, aren't made as much. I think just understanding each other is the first step to change, and I think we need change in this country as there are many intelligent POC that are just under the radar. There are neighborhoods and schools that need work. And there are things that are just unjust that happen FAR TOO OFTEN to POC and I think that a good start to making this change, is learning about it. So read on!

Emma wrote: "Casus•Belli wrote: "Emma wrote: "So yeah...do i want to reflect? No, absolutely not. I won't play this game of butthurt and muh feelings with anyone.

Okay, but if that’s going to be your attitude,..."

I agree with so much of what you say Emma. Spot on!

Sort of a side note. I found this list because I was literally looking for books that I felt I should read in order to better understand minority issues in the U.S.A. I read The Hate U Give and I wanted more books to read to better empathize with a world I know nothing about.

When I saw this list "Books WHITE People should read" My reaction was "FANTASTIC! This is exactly what I was looking for!" And I added a few books from the list that I felt qualified for what I was looking for.

So, this list name, in my opinion, is a bit spot on.

Lianne (The Towering Pile) wrote: "Paul wrote: "Does the name of this list strike anybody as racist?

To be more direct, the name of this list is racist.

How can this list exist without a presupposed and prejudiced stereotype of wh..."

To state that White people are racist is an observation of a characteristic trait of White people as Lianne has also pointed out. I'm white, but we know that not all White people are racist, however, other cultures and other ethnic groups are racist towards each other. Case in point in India they have a caste system, this is ironically a class system founded in medieval India and transformed with the arrival of a British Empire and other Europeans that focused on a hierarchy, that distinguished a 'class' system. As affluent (privileged) Whites embarked on what can only be called an exploitation of an assumed weaker race thus defined by their characteristic traits and dress code. This colonisation purely for exploiting people, to harvest such minerals and other materials for their own benefit, is what eventually saw the demise of a weakening empire. The list is there to benefit all, learn from it what you will and extend and educate yourself, so that you may realise equality in this world for the good of all.

Yeah, I get the point of this book list. I'm part of the target audience, and I've read many of the titles without the benefit of race education, or reeducation, hectoring, or whatever. Perhaps a different list title would take the accusatory sting out of it and bring more people into the worlds, perceptions, and conditions that the listed books describe?

Oh, and BTW, if by privileged the commenters who employ the term mean that I grew up free from dire want, that most people don't presuppose bad things about me, and that they generally treat me with respect and equanimity, unless I do something to deserve otherwise, we will have a semantic disagreement about the term. This is a condition that I want for everybody and that everybody should expect. To characterize me as privileged for generally realizing this basic fairness in life is really to set a low bar for us all. That's my story anyway.

Frank wrote: "Yeah, I get the point of this book list. I'm part of the target audience, and I've read many of the titles without the benefit of race education, or reeducation, hectoring, or whatever. Perhaps a d..."
Aptly put Frank, however, I think what some commenters are referring to is that they assume to be a particular demographic, so they automatically fall into a privileged category. When in fact a majority of white people actually fall in to the same category as their fellow black counterpart; if your not in the top one percent earners then you ain't privileged. That's how it goes here in the UK.

David wrote: if your not in the top one percent earners then you ain't privileged. That's how it goes here in the UK.

Glad to hear the UK has solved racism. You must come give us a tutorial sometime.

Meanwhile, racism is still going strong here and has nothing to do with class. I was chatting with a woman at a working class bar one time, who genuinely believed that black people don’t use toilet paper and wipe excrement on the walls instead. Stop pretending like racial prejudice doesn’t affect the lives of real people.

Hey, the racism against white people thread is still going strong. Awesome. Let me know what an ignorant whitey can do to punish myself for my skin color.

Emma wrote: "This tells me you don’t really understand what privilege mean"

Crystal wrote: "I don't think you understand white privilege."

When people disagree with you, just claim they don't truly understand said topic. Flawless strategy.

Youp wrote: When people disagree with you, just claim they don't truly understand said topic. Flawless strategy.

It terrifies me to no end that we live in a world where fact and opinion are conflated.

Before you object to this book, let me point out that the author is conservative.

The Death of Expertise: The Campaign Against Established Knowledge and Why It Matters<

Youp wrote: "Emma wrote: "This tells me you don’t really understand what privilege mean"

Crystal wrote: "I don't think you understand white privilege."

When people disagree with you, just claim they don't tr..."

And then proceed to explain the gap in their understanding in clear consecutive ways with examples in order to start a dialogue. Or we could just respond with snark and pretend we add anything to the conversation.

I think that So You Want to Talk About Race has a VERY good explanation of what privilege is and why it's so important to discuss. And assuming that poor white people are just as "non-privileged" as a poor minority is insanely ignorant. See above comments for small minor examples of what white privilege looks like.

I think white people DO need to read a lot of these books to at least emphasize with demographic problems that we will NEVER face as white people.

But if white people are so offended by being told they need to broaden their horizons that we are getting overly sensitive about something arbitrary like a name of a list on Good Reads, of all things, then I really wonder if any of you will even bother trying to read or even learn about how racism is still a factor in America. I doubt the white people complaining about the name of the list will even bother to read any of the books and instead want to grip about something that doesn't even matter.

The name of this list, doesn't hurt white people. It's not keeping us from work, putting us in jails, having us lynched and mobbed. It's a name of a list directed at white people so we can read books to learn and empathize with POC and step outside our part of the world. This list is targeting a demographic, not in a negative way, but in a conversational tone asking white people to learn about the issues facing other human beings. Asking white people to use the privileges we have to help our fellow human beings.

David wrote: "Frank wrote: "Yeah, I get the point of this book list. I'm part of the target audience, and I've read many of the titles without the benefit of race education, or reeducation, hectoring, or whateve..."

Realizing that "class" and "race" are very separate is an important step in ending racism.

A lower class black person, does not have the same privileges and chances as a lower class white person. That black person is less likely to be promoted, to voice an opinion without being "uppity", more likely to get ticketed for minor offenses and their children are more likely to be treated differently in schools. Statistically and realistically, these are just facts. Black kids and brown kids are more likely to get suspended for minor offenses than white kids. And suspensions are more likely to lead to more problems such as dropping out of school entirely. Doesn't matter that they are in the same "class" of school, their skin color still affects them.

Ignoring this, is helping the systematic racism that we still have in America. You don't realize that you benefit from that racism while other demographics suffer. And I think it's very important that we realize that racism is still a contributing factor into how we live day-to-day life.

Emma wrote: "David wrote: if your not in the top one percent earners then you ain't privileged. That's how it goes here in the UK.

Glad to hear the UK has solved racism. You must come give us a tutorial someti..."
Emma at what point in my retort did I state that the UK had solved racism? Please enlighten me in what understanding did you arrive at that juncture from the context of my written text?

David wrote: "Emma wrote: "David wrote: if your not in the top one percent earners then you ain't privileged. That's how it goes here in the UK.

Glad to hear the UK has solved racism. You must come give us a tu..."

You suggested that white people and people of color are completely equal and the only privilege that exists is economic privilege. But if there is still prejudice against POC, then white privilege absolutely exists. It’s a package deal. But you were arguing that apart from economic privilege, you guys don’t have privilege in the UK, ergo, there must not be any racism. It’s a simple syllogism.