Poll

I'm voting for Madison because after reading by Jon Meacham I had SO many questions that just weren't answered, and as I wrote someplace in the discussions, I desperately wonder what exactly would TJ have been without Madison.

Interesting Will; I am sure a lot of folks feel the same way. In fact, I have asked that question myself.

Folks, Peter H. Michael asked me to add the early leaders of our nation under the Articles of Confederation. It is true that for the most part they are a forgotten lot and deserve recognition. I will add them at Peter's request and see it they get any votes to be considered. It is odd that they are forgotten as if they never existed by most of the country who only seem to recognize the group who served under the Constitution which eventually replaced the Articles of Confederation. However there is a lot of back and forth on what their role actually was.

John Hanson, the president who interests me most, isn't listed. Hanson was the first president of the original government under the Articles of Confederation and was a fascinating figure. There were eight other presidents of the first government who I would ask you to list. They are, in the order they served, Elias Boudinot, Thomas Mifflin, Richard Henry Lee, John Hancock, Dr. David Ramsay, Nathaniel Gorham, Dr. Arthur St. Clair and Cyrus Griffin. This original government (1781-1788) needs to be reintroduced to readers.

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Bentley wrote:
It was an odd situation because many served only over the sessions when the representatives came together. And oddly enough some of the time they did not have a head. It was an odd time period in our history and it is a wonder sometimes that this Great Experiment survived and thrived. Many feel that serving over the Continental Congresses did not have any of the same authority as being a President of the United States after the Constitution was ratified. However, I am happy to oblige and add these men to the listing.

The other question we must ask is: are there biographies on all these Articles of Confederation presidents that can be readily obtained??

Yes, that is the question that I have asked too. There may not be. John Hancock is really I am embarrassed to say the only one aside from Hanson that is recognizable to me. I wonder whether Thomas Mifflin was a Quaker from Philadelphia and was he an ancestor of George Mifflin who partnered with Houghton (publishing company). Curious how all of these obviously learned and well thought of men are not remembered; only the ones who served once the Constitution was ratified.

For folks who do not know who the Presidents were of the Continental Congresses prior to the ratification of the Constitution - here are some brief links:

John Hanson:
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/...
http://msa.maryland.gov/msa/speccol/s...

Elias Boudinot
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/...

Thomas Mifflin
http://www.history.army.mil/books/Rev...

Richard Henry Lee
http://www.history.org/almanack/peopl...
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/...
http://www.stratfordhall.org/meet-the...
http://colonialhall.com/leerh/leerh.php

John Hancock
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/...
http://www.history.com/topics/john-ha...
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/t...

Dr. David Ramsay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ra...
http://etcweb.princeton.edu/CampusWWW...
http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/p...

Nathaniel Gorham
http://www.history.army.mil/books/Rev...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathanie...
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/...

Dr. Arthur St. Clair
http://www.history.army.mil/books/CG&...
http://www.universityarchives.com/Fin...

Cyrus Griffin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Gr...
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/...
http://www.constitutionfacts.com/?sec...
http://legacy.mckinneyisd.net/Campuse...

White House Biographies

For those of you who would like to consult some write -ups on the Presidents of the United States after the Constitution was ratified; here is link to the White House biographies and you can read all about them there before voting.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presi...

I've studied the Presidents since I was young. While I'm always interested in learning more, I chose John Hanson because I would love to know know more about the Confederation Presidents. A write in vote: David Rice Atchinson who was President for one day.

Thanks Fred - and I will add some info on David Rice Atchinson to this post for those folks who do not know what you talking about in your post - message 8 (here is a write-up from Wikipedia which I am posting below):

"President for One Day"

Atchison himself never claimed that he was technically President of the United States for one day—Sunday, March 4, 1849. Outgoing President James Polk's term ended at noon on March 4, which was a Sunday. His successor, Zachary Taylor, refused to be sworn in to office on Sunday. Taylor's Vice Presidential running mate, Millard Fillmore, likewise was not inaugurated.[18] As President pro tempore, and therefore Acting Vice President, under the presidential succession law in place at the time, Atchison was believed by some to be Acting President.

However, while it is alleged that the offices of President and Vice President were vacant, Atchison in fact was not next in line. While the terms of President James K. Polk and Vice President George Mifflin Dallas had expired, Atchison's tenure as President pro tempore had already expired when the Thirtieth Congress adjourned sine die on March 4. He also never took the oath of office. No disability or lack of qualification prevented Taylor and Fillmore from taking office, and as they had been duly certified to take office that day as president-elect and vice president-elect, if Taylor was not president because he had not been sworn in as such, then Atchison, who had not been sworn in either, certainly was not President either.

Atchison was sworn in for his new term as President pro tempore minutes before both Fillmore and Taylor,[citation needed] which might theoretically make him Acting President for at least that length of time; however, this also implies that many times when the Vice President is sworn in before the President, the Vice President is the de facto Acting President. Since this is a common occurrence, if Atchison is considered President, so must every Vice President whose inauguration preceded that of the President if the President was sworn in after noon on Inauguration Day. Therefore, while one could argue that Atchison was theoretically President for a few minutes (though even this much is highly debatable), claims that he should be considered an official President are surely disputable. He is not included in any official U.S. government list of Presidents. The highest-ranking official whose term unquestionably continued during the interim was Polk's Secretary of State, James Buchanan (later elected President himself in 1856), whose term did not formally expire until his successor, John M. Clayton, took office on March 7.

In an interview with the St. Louis Globe-Democrat, Atchison revealed that he slept through most of the day of his alleged presidency: "There had been three or four busy nights finishing up the work of the Senate, and I slept most of that Sunday."

Despite this, a museum exhibit opened in his honor, in which its owner claims it to be the country's smallest Presidential Library. Although it is not recognized as such by the U.S Government, it opened in February 2006 as the Atchison County Historical Museum in Atchison, Kansas.
Atchison discussed the claim in a September 1872 issue of the Plattsburg Lever:

It was in this way: Polk went out of office on the 3rd of March 1849, on Saturday at 12 noon. The next day, the 4th, occurring on Sunday, Gen. Taylor was not inaugurated. He was not inaugurated till Monday, the 5th, at 12 noon. It was then canvassed among Senators whether there was an interregnum (a time during which a country lacks a government). It was plain that there was either an interregnum or I was the President of the United States being chairman of the Senate, having succeeded Judge Mangum of North Carolina. The judge waked me up at 3 o'clock in the morning and said jocularly that as I was President of the United States he wanted me to appoint him as secretary of state. I made no pretense to the office, but if I was entitled in it I had one boast to make, that not a woman or a child shed a tear on account of my removing any one from office during my incumbency of the place. A great many such questions are liable to arise under our form of government.

Atchison was 41 years and 6 months old at the alleged time of the One-Day Presidency, younger than any official President. Theodore Roosevelt, the youngest to serve, was 42 years and 11 months old when he was sworn in following the death of William McKinley in 1901, and John F. Kennedy, the youngest to be elected, was 43 years and 7 months old when he was inaugurated in 1961. However, in reality this also would not be true, because of the aforementioned standard of which the claim can be made, making every Vice President an Acting President.

Source: Wikipedia

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Note: I will add him even though I think you made the comment with tongue in cheek - but I can't say how he will do (smile). He did not have a long enough term to affect any policy decisions (smile) - especially since (by his own admission) he was sleeping on the job most of the time.

Thanks Fred, interesting stuff.

I vote for any of the gentlemen from John Hanson to David Rice Atchinson

Well everyone has a vote (smile).

I actually would love to read about Lindon Johnson then next would be Reagan

Charles - we just completed a great discussion on Lyndon Johnson (one of Robert Caro's books which was terrific). That is why he is not listed above; but Reagan is.

by Robert A. Caro

So make sure to vote above and just click on the person you want to vote for.

Just a little tidbit:

I chose James Monroe because I am intrigued by someone that those who criticized everybody else could not criticize.

Thomas Jefferson said, "'Monroe was so honest that if you turned his soul inside out there would not be a spot on it." How many Presidents can or could you say that about.

Monroe's time as the President was during what they called the "Era of Good Feelings" (smile) - not very similar to what we are facing today with the gridlock in Congress.

Cantankerous John Quincy Adams spoke well of Monroe. Even John Quincy Adams, who criticized almost everyone, spoke well of Monroe. He was called a trusted soldier and a worthy President by Adams.

Oddly enough, Monroe also died on July 4th, 1831 in New York City however. Jefferson had died on July 4th, 1826 in Charlottesville and Adams had died in Quincy on the same date. Jefferson had died 5 hours earlier than Adams even though Adams thought that Jefferson was still alive. His last words were Thomas Jefferson still survives ("Thomas Jefferson survives") which were untrue at that time but Adams was unaware.

I guess I am always intrigued by the death of our founders and presidents on July 4th and especially Jefferson and Adams (friends and adversaries) on the same date.

I thought in studying James Monroe that we would learn about a man who got along with others, was so honest that Jefferson and JQA could not fault his personal integrity, yet he seemed to successfully do the job. It would be nice to read about such an individual.

Good choice, Bentley.

I would LOVE to read Monroe...right after Madison ;)

Bryan wrote: "Good choice, Bentley."
There are a lot of good choices and we will just see how folks feel about all of the good men on the list.

Will wrote: "I would LOVE to read Monroe...right after Madison ;)"

Very funny Will.

I picked Washington because I wanted to go all the way back to #1, but I agree with you, Bentley, about Monroe; yet I'll be happy with any choice as I want to learn about all of them. US History category and any close subjects that crop up on Jeopardy definitely spark me to learn more, especially when I get it wrong, and I should have known/remembered the question, lol. I also realize that a lot of presidents were not covered with any real thoroughness in school US History and college history subjects.
Thanks for the info on the Confederation Presidents, about whom I have just about zilch knowledge.

Bentley wrote: "Folks, Peter H. Michael asked me to add the early leaders of our nation under the Articles of Confederation. It is true that for the most part they are a forgotten lot and deserve recognition. I ..."

Yes, if the Confederation Presidents are practically forgotten in America, they're unsurprisingly completely unheard of abroad - indeed, the only mention I heard of them before today was through the BBC quiz show QI (comedian Stephen Fry poses interesting, but impossible to answer questions), where it was said that technically Obama wasn't the 44th President, before Fry reeled off a list of the pre-Washington heads of government.

You only get the tip of the iceberg in school.

Virginia wrote: "I picked Washington because I wanted to go all the way back to #1, but I agree with you, Bentley, about Monroe; yet I'll be happy with any choice as I want to learn about all of them. US History c..."

Yes, there were quite a few folks overseeing the Congresses. Of course, some folks see them as Committee Chairpersons without much clout and the authority of the Presidency under the Constitution, but still.

I can understand your choosing Washington and I agree there was not much depth to the learning involved in terms of the Presidents in school (the Cherry tree, free the slaves, stonewall, father of our country, etc). And of course we got a couple days off from school for Washington and Lincoln's birthdays. (smile)

Paul wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Folks, Peter H. Michael asked me to add the early leaders of our nation under the Articles of Confederation. It is true that for the most part they are a forgotten lot and deserve ..."

Yes, I agree. And good for the BBC show and Fry; I doubt our game show hosts would have been able to reel them off.

Again I just want to point out that the only Constitutionally elected presidents who do not have even one vote are Franklin Pierce and Benjamin Harrison.

If you would like to read more about these men, here is the link to the White House biographies:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presi...

I hate to see any president forgotten - it is a long list and folks can miss them.

Trying to spur some interest in these last two Presidents - here are some links on Benjamin Harrison:

Benjamin Harrison Presidential Site:

http://www.presidentbenjaminharrison.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin...
http://www.history.com/topics/benjami...
http://www.ipl.org/div/potus/bharriso...

Some interesting tidbits about Benjamin Harrison - he was the country's Centennial President - 100 years after George Washington and he was the grandson of William Henry Harrison.

Official White House portrait:

I still have my fingers crossed for Benjamin Harrison (smile). Hope somebody votes for him and Pierce.

Really surprised that IKE is doing so well. But good to see enthusiasm for him.

Here is some "marketing material" for Franklin Pierce (smile):

Franklin Pierce



BORN: November 23, 1804


Hillsborough, New Hampshire

CHILDREN: 3 Sons
The Pierce's first son died 3 days after birth, another died at age 4 from typhus. After his election and before the inauguration, Franklin Pierce's 11 year old son Benjamin was killed in a train wreck (from which Mr. and Mrs. Pierce escaped unharmed).

MILITARY SERVICE: Brigadier General, US Army (Combat Veteran)

PROFESSION: Attorney

POLITICAL PARTY: Democratic

HOME STATE: New Hampshire

POLITICAL OFFICES: U.S. Representative, U.S. Senator

NICKNAME: "Young Hickory of the Granite Hills"

DIED: October 8, 1869 (Age - 64)

BURIED: Old North Cemetery Concord, NH

Nathanial Hawthorne liked him:

"I have come seriously to the conclusion that he has in him many of the chief elements of a great ruler. His talents are administrative, he has a subtle faculty of making affairs roll onward according to his will, and of influencing their course without showing any trace of his action." --Nathaniel Hawthorne

Some links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presi...

His Inaugural Address:
http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres29.html

Facts About Franklin Pierce:

Franklin Pierce was the first President to have a Christmas tree in the White House

Franklin Pierce is the only President to have said "I promise" instead of "I swear" at his Inauguration

Pierce was arrested while in office for running over an old woman with his horse, but his case was dropped due to insufficient evidence in 1853

Pierce installed the first central-heating system in the White House

Pierce was the first president born in the 19th century

He won the presidentil election in a landslide. He had 254 electorial votes to 42 votes for General Winfield Scott.

Franklin Pierce didn't have a Vice President. William Rufus DeVane King was elected VP, but died before assuming office, and was not replaced. He was the second President who didn't have a Vice President. Fillmore was the first.

He appointed Jefferson Davis as his Secretary of War. Davis went on to become president of the Confederate States.

Pierce always dressed in black.

Pierce was the only president to have his cabinet stay intact through his entire time as president. No one left, quit or was asked to resign.

He had a long battle with alcoholism. Heavy drinking over the years undermined his health.

Tension over slavery was so high during Pierce's administration that in 1856 Representative Brooks beat Senator Sumner with his cane.

His party did not nominate him for a second term.

Pierce was only 53 years old when he left the presidentcy.

After he left office, he and his wife Jane spent six months in Madeira, Spain.

Pierce gets a mention in Ulysses S. Grant's memoirs. Grant recalls General Pierce from the Mexican War as 'a true gentleman and a man of courage...I knew him more intimately than I did any other of the volunteer generals.' Pierce died in 1869 during Grant's presidency.

Pierce is an ancestor of former President George W. Bush. Bush's mother, Barbara Pierce Bush, is the fourth cousin, four times removed to Franklin Pierce.

Nickname: Handsome Frank

Last Words: Unknown

Cause of Death: Stomach inflammation

This might shed some light on the folks who presided over the Continental Congresses:

Term of office

Before the Articles of Confederation were ratified on March 1, 1781, presidents of Congress served terms of no specific duration; their tenure ended when they resigned or, lacking an official resignation, when Congress selected a successor.

When John Hancock was elected to preside over the Second Continental Congress in May 1775, his position was somewhat ambiguous, because it was not clear if President Peyton Randolph had permanently resigned or was on a leave of absence.

The situation became uncomfortable when Randolph returned to Congress in September 1775. Some delegates thought Hancock should have stepped down, but he did not; the matter was resolved only by Randolph's sudden death in October.

Ambiguity also clouded the end of Hancock's term: he left in October 1777 for what he believed was an extended leave of absence, only to find upon his return that Congress had elected Henry Laurens to replace him.

The time that presidents of Congress served in office varied. The longest serving was John Hancock, who presided for more than two years.

With the ratification of the Articles of Confederation, the length of service was finally codified. The only reference to the president of Congress in the Articles is a brief mention of the term of office:

The United States in Congress assembled shall have authority ... to appoint one of their members to preside, provided that no person be allowed to serve in the office of president more than one year in any term of three years....

When the Articles went into effect in March 1781, however, Congress did not bother to hold an election for a new president.

Instead, Samuel Huntington continued serving a term that had already exceeded a year.

It was not until the election of John Hanson on November 5, 1781, that presidents began serving one-year terms as specified under the Articles of Confederation.

Aside from this new term limit, the office was otherwise unchanged from before the ratification of the Articles.

Source: Wikipedia

=========================================

In view of the above, I will also add the following names:

Peyton Randolph
Henry Middleton
Henry Laurens
John Jay
Samuel Huntington
Thomas McKean

Here is an article which lists all of them for the following periods:

a) Pre-Articles of Confederation
b) Articles of Confederation period
c) Post Articles of Confederation - before Constitution ratified
d) After the Constitution was ratified - George Washington being the first president after that Ratification

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presiden...

Here is another good explanation:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/U-S-Histor...

Bentley wrote: "Again I just want to point out that the only Constitutionally elected presidents who do not have even one vote are Franklin Pierce and Benjamin Harrison.

If you would like to read more about the..."

Two people who deserve reading.

Yes, I agree - I think they would be rather interesting. I hate to see them not make the list when pre constitution folks have been voted for in their place - but everybody has a vote.

Folks, make sure you vote because this vote will determine the order of the reading of books about the Presidents.

One of our rules and guidelines is that members vote in polls which takes two seconds.

I want to thank (Dwight D. Eisenhower) Darius, Paolo, Jill, Reece, Michael, DotBlack, Mike, Christine, Josh, Dan, Aaron, Mark, Sandra, Finnelo, Douglas, G, Tacman, Therissa, Shane, Christopher, NyKen, Neal, Belmira, Marina, Jackboot, Linda, Brian, Andre, Steven Elizabeth S and Judy for taking the time to vote.

Harry Truman - Also thank you to, Fausto, Carolyn, Joel, Beth, Peter, Sarah, Marles, Harold, Bob, Samantha, Nick, Allison, Alison, Jim, Carla, Amber, Tim, Dave, Jim, Paul, Teri, JoAnn, Patrick and Rick.

George Washington - Also, thank you to Michael, Szabolos, Marren, Frederick, Alex, T.D., Joanne, Carolyn, Craig, Simran, Tom, Jeffrey, Kelley, Caitlin, Vince, Virginia, Holly, and Josh.

Calvin Coolidge - Also, thank you to Staastas, Edward, Laurie, Crit, Scott, Chris, Angie, Tomerobber, Amy, Mark, Dennis, Gary, Frank, Gavin, Jim, Mike, Lindsay, Ray, and Megi.

John F. Kenney - Also, thank you to Jimmy, Ty, Marianne, Ala, Tomi, M, Hunter, Nathaniel, Martin, Quinn, Mike, Lu, Juana Darkness, Queen Amudala28

James Madison - Also, thank you Erskine, Rob, Christopher, Tina, Will, Cleo, Mark, Mike, Justin, Jason, James, Chelsea and Ann

James Monroe - Also, thank you Frank, Dan, John, Johnny, Gabriel, Kathy, Lori, Sandra, Komet, Simon, David, FrankH, and of course Bentley.

Andrew Johnson - Also, thank you Richie, Francis, Steven, Tracy, Sara, Colleen, John, Catherine, Lane, Robert.

John Adams - Also thank you James, Regan, Nikole, Edwin, R.M.F., Amanda, Ashley, Arun, Iulia, Chelsea, Cara, Jodean, and Debye.

Richard Nixon - Also thank you Hasan, Dick, Stuart, Jeannine, Brannon, Zana, Ebony, Hilmi, Alisa, and Bryan.

Herbert Hoover - Also thank you Erik, Alex, Rebecca, Kim, Kenneth, Lisa, Barbara, Mike, Clayton, DonnaR, and Nathan.

Ronald Reagan - Thank you Chris, Suzann, Mary, Mark, Ronhummer, Barbara, Jenna, Randy

Grover Cleveland - Thank you Holly, Alvin, John, Nikki, Rebecca, Tom, Manny

William McKinley - Thank you Scott, Jacque, Tracie, Lori, Christopher, Heather, Sharon

James Carter - Thank you Sharyn, John, Diana, C. Laura, Jim

One possibility is to have a presidential series continually running, addressing the presidents in order of service, skipping where recently covered, with side reads or additional bonus reads of the confederational leaders. Polls could be used where a conflict between two highly lauded or thought of texts on the same person were commonly available, though that should occur rarely. That way nobody would be missed, and we'd have the advantage of working chronologically through their histories.

Will - we do have a Presidential Series continually running - but all of our volunteer moderators have busy professional lives so Bryan does about three presidents a year - we have always voted on the order of the presidents folks want to read about to keep interest high and so that Bryan is not alone moderating without interested members.

There are a lot of folks who want to go in order - but membership changes in a virtual environment so folks coming in would have missed what came before anyways. Also, it is a question of time - we are always looking for new volunteers who would like to help and get up to speed on moderating a book or two for us and helping out. We do not intend to miss any of the presidents - it will just take a while to get through all of them (smile).

We have had many polls in the past and we will continue to use them but as you can see we have almost 5000 members and only a subset votes and not a big one at that (even though simply voting on the polls is part of our rules and guidelines) So we have found that this approach works best in the long run.

We schedule where there is interest and keep things moving along. Also, the site is a site for world history, european and british history, and all areas historical - so we have a lot to cover in terms of discussions and need additional volunteers.

In terms of the Congress chairmen (Presidents or various titles) - we will put them on a separate list and cover them if reading materials exist and they are not too costly as we go along. We will order them accordingly too. And a bonus offering with an ancillary read for one of the pre Constitution entities is a good suggestion - but I think it all boils down to time and resources.

Folks, as you know we expect our members to minimally just respond to polls (which takes about two seconds) and to answer yes, no or maybe on the event notifications - we are very very careful about not sending out any notifications that we do not have to . There is one per upcoming discussion - none for buddy reads and only one broadcast sent per any poll. This is the first one we have had in six months so you can see that we do our best.

One thing that all of you can do for us is to make sure you vote in the poll.

For a 5000 member group - we need at least 356 voters which would give us a .5 sample size which would give us about a 95% accuracy that this is what the group wants. It would make it accurate at the .005 reliability level and it would give us a fair representation that even the folks who did not respond (and we hope that is not you) would probably vote along the same lines.

So right now at a minimum we would need another 82 of you to take the time and vote in the poll - so we do hope you do. There are 10 more days to the end of the poll so really and truly it is still quite wide open.

Indeed, Bentley. We need as many votes as possible!

Ike can still lose this election.

I certainly have no vested interest in any particular president - all of them interest me in one way or another. But it is true - that any of the contenders could move around a great deal with the additional votes. No top contender is locked in - not that I do not like Ike - I do - but right now for example Truman is only 6 behind Ike and Adams for example only needs 16 votes to tie for first place. The field really is wide open.

I am a new member who ran out of reading time shortly after joining. But I voted nevertheless: for Truman. I have already read something about him and was positively surprised. I believe he is really somewhat underrated. But I hope it is not a decisive vote because I cannot promise to participate, so please feel to 'override'.

As I am not American I am somehow more interested in the presidents of modern times and find the discussions about the founding fathers rather confusing, but I'll try keeping up ;-).

Great, Silke, I'm glad you voted.

Silke, everybody's vote counts and it is part of the rules and guidelines so we are pleased you voted.

Guys, keep voting, just a few more days longer and with over 5000 folks we should have many more votes. Everybody should vote in every poll if they are a member.

Folks, as you know we expect our members to minimally just respond to polls (which takes about two seconds) and to answer yes, no or maybe on the event notifications - we are very very careful about not sending out any notifications that we do not have to . There is one per upcoming discussion - none for buddy reads and only one broadcast sent per any poll. This is the first one we have had in six months so you can see that we do our best.

One thing that all of you can do for us is to make sure you vote in the poll.

For a 5000 member group - we need at least 356 voters which would give us a .5 sample size which would give us about a 95% accuracy that this is what the group wants. It would make it accurate at the .005 reliability level and it would give us a fair representation that even the folks who did not respond (and we hope that is not you) would probably vote along the same lines.

So right now at a minimum we would need another 11 of you to take the time and vote in the poll - so we do hope you do. There are only a few more days to the end of the poll so right now if you have not voted - now is the time. The order that is voted is going to influence the order for a few years so now is the time to be counted. Don't complain later if you did not vote.

Thanks, Bentley. Yes, please vote. This will be our order which will stick for a number of years!

Folks, keep voting - I will keep the poll open until we have the minimum of 356 voters which will give us an accurate statistical sample size.

So close, too. I feel like we are on a PBS marathon. We need your votes but I'm sorry to say we don't have any mugs to hand out.

Bryan you are making me laugh. We would not have any problems if we had free mugs (smile). I just know that this vote is a very important one for all of us and you especially because of the Presidential Series. This poll will give the order of presidents for quite some time. I do not think we had an update on the order since 2009. With 5000 members, the results could turn on a dime if just a fraction of those folks voted. Most of the time, I would not wait for the statistical sampling but in this case, I think it is wise.

Agree 100% Bentley. Thanks for all your efforts.

Bentley wrote: "Again I just want to point out that the only Constitutionally elected presidents who do not have even one vote are Franklin Pierce and Benjamin Harrison.

If you would like to read more about the..."

I voted for Ike, but I would eventually really like to read about and discuss Benjamin Harrison's Presidency one day. Then later perhaps Pierce, but not until we've covered some of the others on the list.

Agree, Steven. I enjoy reading about the lesser knowns.

I'm almost embarrassed how many Kennedy books I have plus I just read an excerpt about a new one on Rosemary I just read today...time to add another to my B and N wish list. About fifteen so far. Not that I admire as much as such interesting personal stories.