Rothfussians discussion

I think it is no coincidence that his tax collectors began to get waylayed after Caudicus was ousted. Someone is trying to control the Maer, first by keeping him ill and second by harming his relationship with the king and his people. If it weren't for the disappearing leader of the bandits I would suspect the Amyr, but with that evidence it clearly points to the Chandrian.

I think they are aware of his interest in the Amyr and fear an alliance with their enemies and someone as powerful as the Maer.

I think Kvothe got extremely lucky with his trip to Adem. His success against Caudicus and the bandits surely got the attention of the Chandrian, and leaving the country suddenly probably saved his life.

If the Chandrien were behind the plotting against the Maer, this puts Denna in the same place as their interests again, supporting the theory that the Chandrian, or more specifically, Haliax is Denna's patron.

I sort of like the idea that Haliax is the patron and just has someone like Cinder do his bidding. That fits decent in my mind.

Obviously the Chandrian are after something from the maer or tax collectors. I actually thought after reading that scene, that maybe Kvothe was on the wrong side and the Chandrian are running things all Robin Hood style in Severen and surrounding.
It was one of the moments I actually thought the Chandrian may not be ALL bad.

I mean, the Amyr dont exactly seem good in my opinion.

Definately chandrian related with cinder at the camp. I think its to stop a union between him and the lackless's, 2 very powerful families, no one would marry a sick withered old git, then he gets better and all of a sudden bandits starting stealing his taxes, making him look weak ,also kvothe mentioned they were stolen on the road between the lackless estate and severing, possibly to break the alliance through suspicion. It could further the Brendon cinder theory as someone in the court must've been passing the collectors routes on to the bandits.


Wild speculation time, I think there's a huge power play going on, you had the story of a family in the line of succession getting lost/killed at sea. I also think the maer knows more about the amir than he let's on, purely based on his extreme punishments.

Thats a good theory.

Although, some might say Meluan would have a better reason to marry a withered old git if it was HER that was making the power play. As far as I understand, she would get the Maer's estate and title if he ended up dead after their union.

Although, you did lose me on the stealing the taxes to cause suspision part. Maybe expound on that. I'm just not seeing how taxes being stolen between the Lackless Estate and Severen would cast doubt on either family. If anything it makes them both look sort of weak.

My major question would be why was Cinder stealing money from tax collectors and where is it going? Obviously they have some sort of rebel group with them and working for them - but to what end?

I'm bothered by a few details of the Maer's tax problems.

When Kvothe finds the coins, they're in a box with the Maer's seal. They weren't small coins like you'd expect the locals to have. It was all perfectly denominated Royals. If that's the case, it suggests the Maer is shipping money North. Why? Am I just reading too much into it?

Something I always wondered about too... Farmers in that area with royals?

I keep feeling that Cinder is the Maer's general.

Ions wrote: "I keep feeling that Cinder is the Maer's general."

I've had that thought myself. Not a pleasant one.

I don't think the tax collectors are going house to house collecting. They most likely have agents that do that and bring it back to a central facility, or the people take their taxes to the facility. Then its transferred to Royals to make it easier for transport. If the tax collector is going house to house, I'm sure they'd stop at a money changer every once in a while to exchange coins. They wouldn't carry a bag of coins when the could carry one.

I don't think Cinder is the General, but I do think that the General is helping the rebels. I think its possible the rebels were hired by the King. The Maer is the biggest rival to the King.

I think Brandon is correct. Though there is some merit in the idea the Maer is financing something in the North, we know he's a man of many interests, and obscure ones.

Though it's likely that the taxes collected are actually handled by someone in the town and then changed to pay the actual tax collector. If he was going to door to door, it would be a huge and ridiculous matter. Not to mention the safety concerns of something like that.

I've always thought that the Chandrian might be pulling a Robin Hood sort of thing with the Rebels. Helping them rob the tax dollars so that they could help the poor folk. (I thought this after I noticed that little Rhyme about the chandrian are nice to us)

And lets face it, if Haliax said to do it, Cinder probably would.

It was Kvothe and Stapes' initial reaction to the general that gave me a feeling of foreboding towards him. maybe he is just one of the 7, and not exactly cinder. either way... its painful not consuming a series in its entirety, lol. too many unanswered questions.

>.<

Brandon wrote: "I don't think the tax collectors are going house to house collecting. They most likely have agents that do that and bring it back to a central facility, or the people take their taxes to the facil..."

You could be right, and I've thought that before. I'm going to have to reread the chapter; my impression was there wasn't much in the way of civilization (or moneychangers) up that way.

I'm not sure, I may need to reread that one as well.

Though I was under the impression the moneylenders were pretty accessible in the four corners. I might have just though that though because we spend so much time near the university and Severen is so large.

Upon further reflection, I think the Amyr have been watching the Maer long before Caudicus. The death of his father came at just the right time to distract him from digging deeper into the missing Amyr. They killed the old Maer.

I've always thought this question was obvious, but reading all of your arguments makes me question it. My take was always that the Maer was being slowly and deliberately opposed by the Jakis family, in order to reduce his power so that when they succeeded to the Vintish crown he wouldn't be there to oppose them.

The steady reduction of his taxes and being unable to control his own territory would lend to conflict between him and Roderick Colanthis, destabilizing the throne and the maer's seat.

Also, the slow poison of the Maer instead of killing him, and thus reducing his capability to control his territory lends to this as well.

Caudicus mentioned that he spent a good amount of time with the Jakis family when Kvothe questions him about family stories, which immediately made me think that he was being paid by Jakis to undermine the Maer.

Just my thoughts.

Thomas, I like the way you think. I bet Jakis Sr. is much more subtle than Jr. I don't think your guess is an "obvious" one in that its easy to realize. It is simple and plausible. That wins it for me!

I think that the Amyr have more to them than the stories are letting on. If we all believe the premise that Lanre got crazy due to his wife's bereavement, and that he became a powerful dark force in the world, and that the Amyr were some sort of demigod-type creatures (fae? god? super-human? don't remember, but definitely not your garden variety homo sapiens), then they wouldn't exactly be doing things other than for the greater good.

I think that there was a point when the true Amyr were superseded by a new generation of corruption-prone humans, who maybe first assisted the Amyr in their crusade against the Chandrian, and afterwards, when the true Amyr fled/went into hiding (for various of reasons), became puppets of Haliax, who then got them to tarnish their (Amyr's) image.

The false Amyr, which must be in hiding these days, as indicated by the debate b/w Kvothe and others, must be in cahoots with other iconic and evil individuals, such as your benevolent Baron Jakis.

Yes, the first amyr were not humans at all. It is implied they were pulled from the population of beings called the Ruach, who apparently populated the world after and during the creation war. How closely connected they are to the creatures we know as fae, I'm not 100% clear on.

I agree though that eventually the original amyr were superseded by mortals who began to change the original mission, possibly in an attempt to create some semblance of law and order which clearly got out of hand as time passed. I don't know whether they worked with Haliax or the Chandrian or what, I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all if the corruption just happened naturally as the power of the Amyr grew. Power corrupts most mortals on it's own. LOL

Amber wrote: "Yes, the first amyr were not humans at all. It is implied they were pulled from the population of beings called the Ruach, who apparently populated the world after and during the creation war. Ho..."

The book says that Lanre lost it just because he couldn't revive his wife. What if it isn't just that? Maybe there was a bigger, more powerful force, which did and continues to exist even now, that makes people like Lanre into a chandrian like Haliax. Like an embodiment of the seven deadly sins. The origin of the Chandrian is also not mentioned, it being a part of the bigger plot and all. Maybe the Amyr fell prey to a similar fate, and disbanded.

There is definitely a bigger more powerful force behind Lanre's fall, it's the Ctheah. We know that Lanre was lured to the tree because of a situation with Lyra, however, his ultimate downfall seems to stem from speaking with the creature. It pretty much pollutes anyone it speaks with.

It's entirely possible that something like that may have happened with the Amyr, but it's thus far impossible to know.

Like you said the complete origin of the Chandrian is also not known, so your theory isn't outrageous by any means. When Kvothe speaks with Ctheah it seems pretty suggestive it may have also spoken with Cinder at some point. At least in my opinion. So who knows how many other Chandrian it may have a connection with.