Vaginal Fantasy Book Club discussion

Listening to the most recent VF, as well as the ones in the past, I feel like Bonny does a bit of virgin-shaming. I've heard her saying that slut-shaming is not okay, and I agree, it isn't, but she seems to stereotype virgin men by certain actions.

I can't remember the exact episode, but I remember whenever she was questioned if she would ever go out with a virgin guy, she seemed disgusted, said no, and talked about how they were ALL too clingy.

This most recent episode, she attributed Lovecraft's poor character to him "not getting any." This, despite the fact that Lovecraft was previously married. It gives the idea that all virgin men are angry or sexist people who just can't seem to get a date.

I don't have any problems with Bonny outside of this. She seems like a nice person, but she's quick to judge men based on their virginity while at the same time condemning slut-shaming. To me, it doesn't seem right.

Greentea wrote: "Listening to the most recent VF, as well as the ones in the past, I feel like Bonny does a bit of virgin-shaming. I've heard her saying that slut-shaming is not okay, and I agree, it isn't, but she..."

sugarbean, but we are angry berserkers untill we bath in the healing waters. and besides marriage and sex at times don't dance together so lovecraft could be a virgin despite being married, not all marriages are consumed

Greentea wrote: "This most recent episode, she attributed Lovecraft's poor character to him "not getting any." This, despite the fact that Lovecraft was previously married. It gives the idea that all virgin men are angry or sexist people who just can't seem to get a date."

I could be wrong but I attributed that to the fact that Lovecraft was well known to have "little success with women" and also considered to have very low opinions of women in general, regardless of being married. So as far as most of the world knows he wasn't getting much at all. According to what I've found he wasn't a virgin (quote from his wife describing him as "adequately excellent lover"), just not very fond of women in general.

Greentea - while I do recall Bonnie saying something to that effect in a previous Hangout, I don't feel she's virgin-shaming. Instead, I feel she's just expressing her own personal preference. I could see how you might feel that way, though. What Kamil is saying about marriage not necessarily meaning sex is definitely true, especially in earlier periods. It can still be the subject of sitcoms and drama on TV in our current society. (It still happens sometimes!) For me, I just feel that it's harder and harder to find (and to be) a virgin these days.

And besides... Bonnie mentioned her preferences are geared towards guys that look as if they just got out of rehab, and you find few virgins among that kind of people

I don't think Bonnie was shaming virgins. I think she was expressing a personal opinion, which she is perfectly entitled to. Not wanting to date someone doesn't mean that they are a bad person or that you find them disgusting. It just means that is not the sort of person who makes you happy. As a healthy sex life is an important component of relationships, I can see why that would be an element in looking for a partner.

As far as her comments in the recent hangout, Lovecraft was a well know a-hole. He was a racist, hateful man who spent most of his life dealing with pent up issues about his mother. When he did marry, he only spent a short amount of time with his wife before financial issues forced her to move to a different state. They saw little of each other and divorced a short time after that. I think it is safe to say that the marriage bed was not a-rockin'.

I feel like there's a lot of Bonnie bashing happening recently and it makes me angry.

Caitlin wrote: "I feel like there's a lot of Bonnie bashing happening recently and it makes me angry."

I'm not bashing her, I'm giving a legitimate complaint about how I feel she comes off.

Renee wrote: "I don't think Bonnie was shaming virgins. I think she was expressing a personal opinion, which she is perfectly entitled to. Not wanting to date someone doesn't mean that they are a bad person or t..."

I'm not arguing that he was or was not an a-hole, for he definitely was. What I'm saying is that it felt like Bonny came off as saying that his virginity or lack of sex was the reason for that instead of the other way around.

Tegan wrote: "Greentea wrote: "This most recent episode, she attributed Lovecraft's poor character to him "not getting any." This, despite the fact that Lovecraft was previously married. It gives the idea that a..."

The way Bonny seemed to being implying, and I could have misinterpreted this, was that his angry, sexist personality wasn't the cause of his lack of sex life, but a result of it. If that's the case, that carries the implication that virgins are angry, sexist people. I don't see why she had to reference his virginity to his attitude unless she meant something by that.

Greentea wrote: "Caitlin wrote: "I feel like there's a lot of Bonnie bashing happening recently and it makes me angry."

I'm not bashing her, I'm giving a legitimate complaint about how I feel she comes off.

Renee..."

I don't think she meant it in an insulting way at all.

I think all of the girls were just having fun, sometimes saying silly things and hey, at the end of the day I don't think it's that big a deal - I'm pretty sure that if she did mean to virgin-bash, she wasn't doing it universally but personally - to attribute to the fact that it's known that H.P Lovecraft was a bit of an asshole.

I think we're all beating up on the wrong parties here. Bonnie is a cool gal but like any one of us simply makes her choices based on her own preferences and bias. I loved her her pick of Chuthullurotica but was a tad flustered with her "wiki"-tastic explanation to those who were no familiar with the character.

I think she's got awesome sauce as her main personality but can be a tad gruff when she thinks it helps. I also feel Greentea should not be squished just cause they expressed themselves. Sometimes Virgin Boys and Gals are twice as fun because there is so much that is nuance to them. I love it when an author (or when hangin' w/a flesh and blood person) you meet the halfway point between innocence and lust.

So I think while both sides here have a valid point it would be nice to express both without fearing a landslide if you share Greentea's view or feeling defensive of Bonnie who (given her fandoms) does not strike me as needing all that help if defending her view point.

Jessica wrote: "I think we're all beating up on the wrong parties here. Bonnie is a cool gal but like any one of us simply makes her choices based on her own preferences and bias. I loved her her pick of Chuthullu..."


Solid post! I definitely agree and of course people should be able to voice their opinions without fear of being squashed or ganged upon - just because they disagree of agree it doesn't mean they are wrong. I think these comments on the show were in jest but I can understand the concern and perhaps disapproval.

Joia wrote: "Jessica wrote: "I think we're all beating up on the wrong parties here. Bonnie is a cool gal but like any one of us simply makes her choices based on her own preferences and bias. I loved her her p..."

not having much sex + UNhappy about it= poor excuse for hating women