The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion

I thought the first episode of the new Elementary series (Sherlock Holmes US update) was really well done. Nice dynamic between Sherlock & Watson as they take turns getting ahead of each other. Nicely done mystery, too.

What do others think?

Enjoyed it and especially Lucy Liu as Watson.

I like the show, however with the actors speaking so fast it is sometimes difficult to understand what they are saying.

I forgot that this show started last week. Going to check it out soon.

One thing I've noticed with a lot of shows is that the background music is too loud and it makes it difficult to hear the dialogue. Anyone else notice this?

Background music didn't bother me but Sherlock does speed speak.
Show has good potential.

I enjoyed the show also. Fingers crossed that it lasts!

I, too, enjoyed it last week.

At first I didn't know if I would like it. This Sherlock was a little more sloppy than Benedict C.'s
Sherlock, and Lucy Lu as Watson was a bit getting used to, but by the end of the show, I thought it was wonderful and I am looking forward to this week's performance. It is equally as good as any Sherlock effort!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I guess I'm going to have to give it a try based on your guy's opinions. Think a female Watson has been what's stopping me.

I think it's really well done - a surprise, as I expected not to like it.

If you're having trouble understanding the dialogue, you might want to try closed captioning when you watch. A little distracting at first, but it's nice to know what's being said.

Finally saw the pilot and thought it was OK. I didn't love it.

But then, it irritates me when they take established characters (from a book, older TV show or movie) and then change pretty much everything. A few changes are understandable to make the show work, but Elementary changed a bit too much for me - time frame and location and backstories and the Holmes/Watson interaction, etc.

Why not just do what House MD and Monk did and come up with new characters (and names) and give a nod to Sherlock Holmes? I'm not a purist on this, but there comes a point where it's just a different story.

Sorry, I'm just grumpy! I've seen so many shows from my childhood "reincarnated" and often into something that loses that quality that made the original work. I liked the old Sherlock Holmes and love the BBC's Sherlock but I'm not sure this one will work for me. I'll give it a few more episodes, though - maybe it will be better.

I finally got around to watching it. I like the idea of it and I think Lucy Liu is great but something about the whole idea of Sherlock's father paying for her services as a sober companion (or whatever that situation is -- I haven't quite got a handle on it) seems so contrary to the idea I have of Sherlock Holmes.

From the 2 episodes I saw -- admittedly I was somewhat distracted while watching one of them -- the Holmes character just seems sort of co-dependent and somewhat fragile, not at all what I expect from the world's greatest detective.

Just watched my third episode and I'm still undecided on whether or not I'm going to stick with it.

Question: In the world in which Elementary is set does Arthur Conan Doyle's fictional character of Sherlock Holmes exist?

If some writer wants him to. Imagination rules, and I still like this series. Good writing; good acting.

Just watched the 3rd episode on DVR. Very good, lots of twists, although I thought it was a little fuzzy on (view spoiler)[ how the first victim, Adam, could have been old enough to turn the tables on his captor and doesn't that mean he had to have some pretty severe psychological problems to begin with? (hide spoiler)]

I do like the way they are developing the relationship between Holmes and Watson.

I'm with you. Romance would ruin the show.

I am still watching the show, but it is losing me. Let me explain.

I am a HUGE fan of the BBC show "Sherlock." And I love how they transport the Doyle books into the modern day. So, you get A Study in Pink and Scandal in Bulgravia. You also get Moriarty, but in a contemporary setting. Thus, it is Sherlock Holmes, but how he would act in contemporary life.

The problem with Elementary is that, well, it's pretty much just a standard police procedural, except that the head cop is really Sherlock Holmes. Other than there being a Holmes and Dr. Watson, there's nothing...Holmes-ian about it. Where's Moriarty? Where's the other Sherlock-y elements?

As such, it is interesting, but not quite as compelling as I was hoping for. We have enough cop shows. We need Sherlock Holmes, does that make sense?

In this series, Holmes is keenly observant and in possession of arcane knowledge; Watson is intelligent and observant and helps solve the mystery. That's in keeping with the tradition. I keep watching because the plots are innovative and the actors are good, especially Lucy Liu. She masters understatement in this role.

I like the actors, but it does not feel like Sherlock Holmes to me. It seems at times that Sherlock sort of leaps to conclusions, instead of really building toward an honest deduction.

I would have preferred seeing these actors in a more original series, instead of them trying to be Holmes and Watson.

We like what we like, for whatever reasons. Compared to what else is available on network tv, this is one I like.

Sorry to say that there was nothing in this show which made me want to watch more than the pilot episode.
The actors were doing their best but I thought were wasted on a very thin script and Sherlock gets all the good lines while the other stars look on and feed him material.
To me this was hooking an English name and English actor into a pre-established format and it may do well because of that.
But let us not get confused that it has anything to do with Conan Doyle.
Actually very disappointed.

I really enjoy the show, that's what lead me to the books for which I am very thankful.

Nina said: "The actors were doing their best but I thought were wasted on a very thin script and Sherlock gets all the good lines while the other stars look on and feed him material."

Sherlock always has had the best lines while others looked on.

I was a bit skeptical about the concept. But once I decided that this "world" didn't have the Doyle Sherlock in it, I was OK with it. It's a modern take on who he would be now. I think Miller does a great job of creating a quirky, brilliant man who cannot handle boredom. I think he's very engaging.

And I've always been a fan of Aiden Quinn.

I'm still enjoying the show, and I liked the last episode where Watson had her first solo case, but was it just me or was there a crazy amount of mobile phone product placement? They kept showing the actors using their phones, with close-up images of the text messages and such. Got a little annoying.

But Carrie, cell phones have taken over our lives!!!!!!!!!!!! I try not to use too much tech, but
just take a look. Anywhere, you are apt to see
people using their phones or texting. We just had an
accident noted in our local paper of someone texting
while driving. Terrible!!!! I like Elementary very
much and haven't missed a episode. I just think they
were trying to update Sherlock and being very modern.

I'm definitely a fan of the series--I've always loved Sherlock Holmes and I appreciate the modern spin on the classic--and love that Watson is a woman. Lucy Liu does a fantastic job, as does Johnny Lee Miller. I watch this show loyally every week!

Georgia wrote: "I just think they
were trying to update Sherlock and being very modern."

I thought so too until I read an article yesterday that said the Nokia Lumia 800 was being promoted on the show Elementary as was the iPhone 4S. Guess that answered my own question. Oh well, TV shows don't pay for themselves. ;)

I'm still enjoying the series, and I especially like the final scene in each episode and the accompanying music. I'm not sure how to describe it - maybe wistful?

I just finished season 1 of Elementary! I loved it. I cannot wait to start on season 2. I have been watching Sherlock in between to get my fix. I have never read or watched anything about Sherlock Holmes before this, and I am learning that I am a closet Holmes fan. I just never knew! I agree with many of you that I love Watson as a woman, and I love Lucy Liu!

Autumn wrote: "I just finished season 1 of Elementary! I loved it. I cannot wait to start on season 2. I have been watching Sherlock in between to get my fix. I have never read or watched anything about Sherlock ..."

I never cared for Lucy Liu until this show. Now I have to wonder why because I think she is a great actress and perfect for the role.

The best I can rate Elementary is okay.

My biggest initial gripe was the same as Michael's: Sherlock's motor-mouth speaking and heavy accent made it hard to understand him. I wonder if so many people complained about it that they slowed him down. Or maybe I just got used to his speaking style. Either way, he's easier to understand now.

Like Marja, I hate the 'dramatic' music all shows seem to have these days, especially when it drowns out the dialog at a crucial point in the show. It's as if the people behind the shows think we as viewers are too dumb to pick up on those dramatic moments. If the writers did their job right, the dialog would carry the moment.

Quillracer wrote: "The best I can rate Elementary is okay.

My biggest initial gripe was the same as Michael's: Sherlock's motor-mouth speaking and heavy accent made it hard to understand him. I wonder if so many pe..."

It's interesting that you say that because I like the dramatic music. Not as much as they use maybe, but some music. I watched several British crime shows and there was no music and I found it unsettling and odd. And not in a good way.

Kathryn wrote: "Autumn wrote: "I just finished season 1 of Elementary! I loved it. I cannot wait to start on season 2. I have been watching Sherlock in between to get my fix. I have never read or watched anything ..."

Kathryn, I felt the same way. I've never cared for Lucy either and her casting made me hesitant about this show even though I am a huge Sherlock Holmes fan. However, once I watched the show I liked her immediately and I think she does a great job as Joan Watson. As far as the other gripes I've heard I never really noticed Holmes having a particularly strong British accent, nor have I noticed the background music. I watched the story from the start on air, but have just finished watching season one again on DVD. I loved the show even more on DVD without all the commercial interruptions. I was able to concentrate better on the show and got more enjoyment out of it as a result.

I will keep watching it because I like it. Miller does an excellent job playing a character who is different from most of us with a brain and eyes moving so fast, collecting data, facts, etc. that we can't help admiring Sherlock. I think this is why WE have loved him throughout the Century and he always gets his "man"!!!!!!!

For any of you wanting to know more about Sherlock Holmes and his evolution through time, please read: http://martatandori.com/fictional-det...

Definitely a fan. I hada hard time for a bit understanding all of his words because of the accent. Now much better. I think the story lines are very clever and more original than mist of the other detective series..other than Castle which is a win win too

We love this show and record it so we will never miss and episode.

Will Sherlock use that packet of drugs in his pocket? I say no, he won't.

Elizabeth wrote: "My husband and I enjoy this show as well. We were just annoyed with the last few episodes because JLM would practically be mumbling/whispering, requiring us to turn up the volume...only to have an ..."

Glad I wasn't the only one irritated with that.

I agree, love the show, but his mumbling has gotten worse

I agree. But that's always been the case with Elementary (as well as Sherlock, at times).
But keeping that aside, is anyone else depressed by the idea of Dr. Watson being not John but Joan ? I mean, seriously. Until I watched the show, I just couldn't picture a female Dr. Joan Watson whatsoever ! And I don't think I still am completely able to absorb that.

I wondered about that at the beginning but I really like Lucy Liu as an actress and I think she has done a really good job so it's not much of an issue for me now.

The romance with Mycroft was an interesting twist.

I'm not a huge fan of Lucy Liu either. However, in this particular case, I think she's a good foil for Sherlock in that she can express empathy and even sympathy without being overly-emotional and with just the right amount of reserve. Sherlock's character needs that foil because he has one of those narcissistic personalities that can overshadow everyone else around him.

Marta wrote: "I'm not a huge fan of Lucy Liu either. However, in this particular case, I think she's a good foil for Sherlock in that she can express empathy and even sympathy without being overly-emotional and..."

My girlfriend talked me into watching this show. I thought it sounded stupid. But I became a big fan after Sherlock had to man-up and act like a real AA sponsor. This show is a lot deeper than anything other mystery. but i don't know, i don't watch much TV.

Lucy I flip back and forth on. One show I think she's OK, the next I think she's a marketing gimmick, the next I'm hoping the bad guys just shoot her. She is an interesting twist, but I'm sticking with the gimmick theory.

So what do you think about Sherlock working for MI-5? He volunteered at the end of the season finale. I'll certainly be tuning in the see how that works out, but I feel like they may be straying too far away from the cannon. I also wish that they had kept Mycroft with MI-5, but left him as a semi-regular character. I like it when they at least stay close to the cannon.

Yeah she's good but I still cannot get used to the idea. Even though she's doing a good job.
Yes, the twist is very refreshing ! It's fun to see Sherlock squirm like that !

PS- but isn't it sherlock's narcissism that makes him kind of brilliant in himself ?