Karen Chance Fans discussion

Valerie ~ Val Hall ~ wrote: "On a side note....aside from Kate Daniels and Jane Yellowrock...any other heroines that are not TSTL?"

That's really a good question Val and I really have a hard time to find other heroines that I don't want to kill or shout that they are stupid to do things on their own. Like Lannister said, Kara Gillian could be in the group to not TSTL but if you think of any other please let me know 'cause I'm coming blank here :/

The A stands for annoying.

Ah, thanks Mello! I did kinda like Awesome though! :)

You're welcome.

I'd say Lily Yu isn't TSTL. I'm sure there are more, I can't think of them off of the top of my head, though. There are some heroines I like, but they still tend to do some stupid shit a number of times, so I'd still include them on the list.

Strong female characters are a must for me in a series. If I don't like the main character, I won't read the book.

LMAO

It's annoying. I saw it used for the heroine of Spade's book (Night Huntress).

I also like Thorne St. Croix from Faith Hunter's Rogue Mage. Then there's Annja Creed from Rogue Angel, a cheesy B series, but I do like Annja. Harper Blaine from Greywalker; Celia Graves from Cat Adams' Blood Singer; and, Diana Tregarde from Mercedes Lackey's series of the same name. Mercy Thompson from her series. Riley Jenson. Janet Begay from Stormwalker. Kitty Norville. Then there's Kate Connor from Julie Kenner's Demon Hunter series and Harper Connelly from one of Charlaine Harris' series.

I too like Lily Yu! Two other human cops I like are Heather Wallace from Adrian Phoenix's Maker's Song and Pete from Caitlin Kittredge's Black London.

In the YA camp, there's Claire Danvers from Morganville Vampires.

I'm not sure yet about Kallie Rivière.

I know most of y'all don't like Anita Blake for her excessive sex life, but other than that, ya gotta admit she ain't stupid.

I like Thorne, too, Kathy. Janet, too.

I have to say, I do like a lot of the series Kathy listed, and there are some tough babes in there; Greywalker, Blood Singer, Mercedes Thompson, Riley Jenson, Harper Connelly, and Kitty Norville are all good, solid series. I not sure about how I feel on the Stormwalker series, even though I have read them all.

Also, can't forget Jace from The Bloodhound Files, Sabina from the Sabina Kane series, Mira from the Dark Days series, and Delilah from the Delilah Street series; these all have chicks as leads who are not stupid.

And I love Anita Blake - even with all the unnecessary sex, she is still one tough cookie who - except for when it comes to sex - is not stupid.

I can agree with regards to Anita.

All good series listed above. I'm just getting tired of reading about clueless heroines lately. Most of the series you all listed...the heroine had some inkling of what the world was about (even if she did not know everything).

Sorry for the shopping list but I had it handy.
Maybe also: Arcadia Bell series by Jenn Bennett, Bloodhound Files series by D.D. Barant, The Hollows by Kim Harrison, Vamp City series by Pamela Palmer, Anna Strong Chronicles by Jeanne C. Stein, Downside Ghosts by Stacia Kane, Dreg City by Kelly Meding, Hunter Kiss by Marjorie M. Liu, Vampire Huntress Legend by L.A. Banks.

Eta: editing my list because of glaringly obvious flaws.

Just finished Jasper Fforde's The Last Dragonslayer . The first in a new series of the same name. Too funny and total nonsense poking at commercialism and greed. I'll be posting the review today.

just read (Thanks Duane!)

Now reading:

Rereading:

And the allie beckstrom rereads need to go fast so I can get to her new book!

Zeenat is a machine, I swear.

Valerie ~ Val Hall ~ wrote: "All good series listed above. I'm just getting tired of reading about clueless heroines lately. Most of the series you all listed...the heroine had some inkling of what the world was about (even if..."

Ooh, a bunch of series I haven't read yet!

I will agree on Rachel Morgan in The Hollows by Kim Harrison. I'm having some doubts about Nikki Glass in her series by Jenna Black. Anna Strong has had some odd hits in the last two books, and I love Maxine in Hunter Kiss by Marjorie M. Liu (forgot about her!?).

Oh, and I did read Grave Memory and Blood of the Demon as well. I hate that I have to wait months for another Alex Craft! Fortunately, I have Secrets of the Demon on order!

Yeah, Nikki Glass is a bit iffy but I liked that she did not have awesome powers like any urban fantasy....she may be clueless but not TSTL really.

Okay some series u guys mentioned I know and some I know about but haven't read (yet :p ) but I don't agree with every heroine u mentioned. Are they strong - yes. Are they clueless and I want to shout at them - yes.

For example Mira from Dark Days series was a doormat. She thought she knew what was going on but she hadn't got a clue and she was taken advantage of all the time.

Rachel Morgan from The Hollows she was guessing what to do and agreed to every stupid thing even when she knew that it was untrue what she was told and she was taken advantage so many time that I lost count.

Mercy Thompson - she's a freaking mechanic! Not an assassin! She's not exactly stupid but does stupid and unnecessary shit all the time

Kitty Norville - a radio host who has no freaking knowledge how to defend herself and others, yes it changes later in the series 'cause it's a must for her to survive but she has no clue what she's doing most of the time (BTW same goes for Marcy )

I think I would go with Jace from The Bloodhund Files to my not TSTL list 'cause the woman knows what she's doing and Riley Jenson but after the 2nd book (before she wasn't trained and I actually shouted few times at her that she's stupid) the same with Sabina Kane - after the 2nd book 'cause in the 1st one she was pathetic :/

Mercy is a mechanic and Kitty is clueless about self-defense, but neither allows that to interfere with wanting to help. Yeah, Rachel does some stupid things, but she does try to learn from it. And, again, her heart is in the right place, even as she dives into scary situations to help her friends.

Yeah I agree about the heart and don't get me wrong I like all those series but that doesn't mean that they act stupid. I love the fact they want to help but if you know you can't do something (on your own!) you only get in the way so learn how to ask for help.

I guess it depends how flawed we like our hero/heroine (or without any sense of self preservation). We can't have perfect characters, they would be boring...unless they are dark, tall and silent. I have a crush on D from vampire hunter D even if nobody can see his appeal.

Margo wrote: "Yeah I agree about the heart and don't get me wrong I like all those series but that doesn't mean that they act stupid. I love the fact they want to help but if you know you can't do something (on ..."

True enough...

Margo wrote: "I love the fact they want to help but if you know you can't do something (on your own!) you only get in the way so learn how to ask for help. "

I think that might be one of the defining characteristics of a TSTL character. Or maybe it's actually down to the author wanting their heroine to save the day single-handedly, no matter how unrealistic the odds. It's beyond dumb when lead characters go charging into situations that no sane person would ever approach on their own. But they just have to show how tough they are.
*major eyeroll*

I just finished my 1st book this month, titled The Hobbit (Middle-Earth Universe)
by J.R.R. Tolkien. My next book is Hidden (House of Night #10)
by P.C. Cast

I don't know about the Vampire Huntress Legend series - I think this was the worse series I EVER tried to read. It was like torture getting through the first book, and when the second book picked up immediately where the first one left off I knew that that was the end of the series for me. The characters were flat, the world was dull, the evil entities laughable, and the dialog was so pathetic that I thought it was written by a first grade dropout. Of course, this is just my opinion.

Lannister wrote: "Margo wrote: "I love the fact they want to help but if you know you can't do something (on your own!) you only get in the way so learn how to ask for help. "

I think that might be one of the defin..."

That's how I see a TSTL character as being. There are some characters I really like that are still TSTL a lot of the time.

I actually hated Rachel Morgan for the first few books. I kept reading because I found the overall world interesting and I was completely hooked on Jenks, Al and Trent. I wanted to choke the shit out of Rachel half of the time.

I love Cat from Night Huntress, but she was always running off on her own to solve things without telling one single person wtf she was doing. She put herself into some seriously stupid situations.

Mello luvs Gin, Illium, Myrnin & Jaqen H'ghar wrote: "I love Cat from Night Huntress, but she was always running off on her own to solve things without telling one single person wtf she was doing. She put herself into some seriously stupid situations. "

Yeah, I know it's fantasy, but I don't think you can completely shake off reality. I don't find it remotely heroic when a character does something like this (unless they have a very, very good reason). I mostly find it idiotic and unrealistic, and the characters stop being believable, which can kill the book for me.

Agreed. The heroines may be strong or have some nice powers, but they can't go running off on their own all the time to do things as though they're the only ones that can handle the situation. Most of the time, the people they leave behind that they're trying to save are stronger than they are and always end up showing up in the end to save THEIR asses.

What about Gin from the Elemntal Assassin Books by Jennifer Estep? She's pretty kiss ass.

Gin's a good one. I don't consider her TSTL.

Kiss or Kick??

I don't have problems with stupid heroines, if it's reflective of their age and personality. Rachel is stupid, so stupid. But her stupidity is tempered with her heart and is realistic.

In fact, I like my heroines with faults. I'm annoyed with heroines who are virtually "faultless": Cat, Merit . . . I am trying to think who else.

Flawless characters are boring (in my opinion) and more surreal than the one with flaws. No one is perfect and I don't want any characters to be (people as well in real life) but I'm just saying that if there is even a possibility that the heroine can't do something on her own then please let her take someone with her! Don't let her go on her own and save the world! Usually it ends up bloody (even if she at the end conquers all at the last second).

Agreed, Margo.

Started

Lannister wrote: "I mostly find it idiotic and unrealistic, and the characters stop being believable, which can kill the book for me."

I so agree. Worst is that those idiots always survive because they are the heroes/heroines of the series.

You mean the ones where everything that could go wrong does and they find themselves in the most unsurvivable situation, but still manage to survive. It always takes place at the very last minute and it's always some sort of freak accident/coincidence.

Lol Gin

opps I did mean kick not kiss ass. don't think she does much kissing ass lol

Just finished Hunters and Prey by Katie Salidas.
I would give it maybe 3.5 to 4 stars. Very quick read.
But interesting characters. This is the second book. Took me awhile to get into it because I let so much time go in between the 1st book.

Meant to put this with that last post.
I'm now reading Shady Lady by Ann Aguirre. Goodreads does not recognize this book either. I think this is the second book in that series.

I just finished . The romance was definitely unrealistic in its conception, and there are mates involved. I don't know if you could considered it "fated mates," but definitely mating. However I loved the male lead, Dragos, who is definitely swoon-worthy and the story was very dynamic. It's a fun, fast read.

I just finished my reread of the Allie Beckstrom series, and loved it more this time around! I started the last book , and I'm trying to savor it. LOL

I finished and give it 4 stars only because the story has one major drawback - if you are not reading Connie Suttle's main series Blood Destiny you won't know who's who and many many things considered almost all characters (except for main heroine) but if you've read Blood Destiny and liked it then you will definitely like Demon Lost. Now I'm on the 4th chapter of and I'm already screaming at Risa how stupid she is! Hope it gets better :/

I still need to read books 3 and 4 of Dark Angels. Your screaming at Risa is not making me want to get to them too quickly.

Zeenat wrote: "I just finished my reread of the Allie Beckstrom series, and loved it more this time around! I started the last book , and I'm trying to savor it. LOL"

There are 9 books in that series? I dunno if I should be happy or unhappy!!! My TBR pile is crazy! Tho I know quite a few of you have it worse than me!!

Finished with Darkness Hunts and for me it was not worth it. Right now I feel it was the worst book in the series that brought nothing new to the main plot of the story. I've seen people giving good review about it but the only redeeming quality of this book was Azriel. I will read the next book but if it's going to be like this one I think I will drop the series completely.

Finished Magic for a Price . . . review will be up in a few hours.

Margo--now I'm dreading finishing darkness hunts . . . it sounds awful lol

Zeenat it's only my opinion so you are welcome to give it a go I just was very disappointed that's all

I just added The Hollows to my TBR pile. I'm so weak!

Haha, Sarah. It's about time.

I just finished my 2nd book this month, titled Hidden (House of Night #10)
by P.C. Cast. My next book is Fourth Grave Beneath My Feet (Charley Davidson #4)
by Darynda Jones