Glens Falls (NY) Online Book Discussion Group discussion

Jackie wrote: "What I'm reading right now:
The Ugly Little Boy by Asimov & Silverberg and Ring Around the Sun by Clifford D. Simak. Enjoying both."

Jackie. Both of those books sound intriguing.
The only book I've ever read by Asimov is _Isaac Asimov's Treasury of Humor_. He not only tells funny jokes and anecdotes, but he explains what makes them funny. It's actually an analysis of humor, in a way. Amazon.com says the pub. date is 1999*, but I discovered it in the Mahopac, NY, library back in the 1970s or 1980s. I liked it so much I wanted to own it and I paid a good amount of money for it because I believe it was out of print at the time. Now it looks like they're a dime a dozen. I don't understand it.

*(P.S. The Goodreads book page says it was first published in 1972.)

Currently I'm reading the March book club selection of the Crandall Library group, _The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao_ by Junot Diaz. It's a Pulitzer Prize winner but so far I haven't discovered the "wondrous" part. :) But I'm only on page 47. I'll give it a few more hundred pages. :)

Hi Joy - How's this for synchronicity? Just started reading James Kunstler's novel WORLD MADE BY HAND, which is set in a not-far-off post-apocalyptic America thrown back to what's basically an 18th century life style by a perfect storm of disasters: environmental castastrophe, terrorist attacks, epidemics of disease, the complete collapse of both the global and the domestic economy, and the subsequent disappearance of any kind of technology. It's set in a small town in the Upper Hudson Valley called Union Grove, which feels like it might be fictional although I don't know, but the nearest big town to it, which is frequently referred to, is...Glens Falls! Just joined your group a couple of weeks ago and there you are in practically the next novel I pick up! (it's good, BTW, at least so far, but a very disturbing cautionary tale...)

Joy,
I agree with Twain: "'Classic' - a book which people praise and don't read." Or something along those lines. It seems to me that the Pulitzers for literature and the Academy Awards for film are always the worst selections I can think of. Granted, my tastes are not like everyone else's but I don't see how some of these books are even published.

Margaret,
I recently put A World Made by Hand on my to read list. It sounds like my kind of book. Let me ask you a question, are you a sci fi fan? I find that sci fi fans expect more from this type of novel. I'd like to know what you think of this novel when you are finished. I just want to know if it's sci-fi enough for me.

Joy,
I forgot to say about Asimov, he's the only author to have written books in every genre. I adore him.
I like his style, he's an intelligent read and he doesn't make it difficult to read his work. I get annoyed with authors who get too wordy, like they're superior and are explaining to us dummies. Asimov is a down to earth writer. I haven't ever disliked a book by him.

Joy, you have Richard Russo's book, "Bridge of Sighs," on your to read list, I believe,,when you do read it and give your review I will send you the poem my Poet neighbor(yes, she has been published many times) wrote after reading that book..She is sending the poem out..I will let you know if it is published..nina

Jackie wrote: "Joy,
I agree with Twain: "'Classic' - a book which people praise and don't read." Or soemthing along those line. It seems to me that the Pulitzers for literature and the Academy Awards for fil..."

Jackie, I'm actually not a sci-fi fan at all, I'm afraid - if a book has more than one made-up word, a space alien and/or a fictional planet on the first page, I'm pretty much out of there. I'm a bit further on in the Kunstler book now, and although I'm slightly reading tea leaves, I would say it isn't strictly speaking science fiction, at least not as I define it, and maybe my definition is narrow. I think it's more of a cautionary fable about where some of our current behaviours might end us up, and what the challenges of rebuilding a society might be. I'd call it more of a futuristic fantasy.
I tend to agree with you about Pulitzer novels, but I did think both Jeff Eugenides' MIDDLESEX and Michael Chabon's ADVENTURES OF KAVALIER AND KLAY were worthy and deserving of their wins.

I think what makes this goodreads a fun "Read" is that it's oK to disagree..I disliked, "Middlesex," looked in my Book Club Journal to check my notes on this book and all I could find was, "NO." If I do remember correctly and I am not sure I do, I thought the main character's brother was a dog until I got into the story. Didn't he have a very very strange name..Please correct me if I am wrong..nina

Margaret wrote: "Hi Joy - How's this for synchronicity? Just started reading James Kunstler's novel WORLD MADE BY HAND, which is set in a not-far-off post-apocalyptic America thrown back to what's basically an 18t..."

Margaret, I looked at the Goodreads description of _World Made by Hand A Novel_. My goodness, that book does present a frightening future for us. And what a coincidence that the setting is near Glens Falls, NY. I wonder how Kunstler happened to choose that particular location.

I often worry about what we would do without the fossil fuels which we currently depend on for our entire way of living. I take an optimistic view that the finest minds in the world will, when things start looking desperate, work out a solution using other kinds of energy. Sometimes it takes a crisis to bring out the best in people. History has proved that.

Jackie wrote: "Joy,
I agree with Twain: "'Classic' - a book which people praise and don't read." Or soemthing along those line. It seems to me that the Pulitzers for literature and the Academy Awards for fil..."

Jackie, perhaps the folks who give out the prizes are sadists. :) The choose they most complicated books and then sit back and watch the readers struggle. It seems some readers are masochists and they enjoy suffering. :) Yet, when I read the praise heaped on some of these difficult reads, I wonder what's lacking in me that I can't find pleasure in plowing through them. Sometimes the only pleasure I get is knowing that I've read them and at least know something about the books in question.

Granted, I do find some parts of the prize-winning books interesting and well-written, but I have to work to find the gold.

Margaret, I just added World Made by Hand to my to-read shelf. Thanks for the tip!

For what it's worth, I think of post-apocalyptic novels as a branch of science fiction. Only, where much of the genre explores imaginary new developments in the natural sciences, post-apocalyptic (and Utopian and dystopian) fiction explores imaginary new phenomena in the social sciences. Just a thought!

Jackie wrote: "Joy, I forgot to say about Asimov, he's the only author to have written books in every genre. I adore him. I like his style, he's an intelligent read and he doesn't make it difficult to read hi..."

I really must read more of Isaac Asimov's work. Perhaps I'll start with his short story "Nightfall". Wiki says that it "has been described as one of 'the most famous science-fiction stories of all time'".

I wonder which novel I should start with, _Foundation_ or _I, Robot_? Wiki says they are among his most famous science fiction stories.
Here's the Wiki page: ====>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_As...

I've ordered the DVD of the movie, "Bicentennial Man" from Netflix, since it's based on one of his short stories. As you probably know, it stars Robin Williams.

Nina wrote: "Joy, you have Richard Russo's book, "Bridge of Sighs," on your to read list, I believe,,when you do read it and give your review I will send you the poem my Poet neighbor(yes, she has been publishe..."

That'll be fun, Nina. Thanks.

Margaret wrote: "I tend to agree with you about Pulitzer novels, but I did think both Jeff Eugenides' MIDDLESEX and Michael Chabon's ADVENTURES OF KAVALIER AND KLAY were worthy and deserving of their wins."

Let me provide links to those books, Margaret, just in case some lurkers (like me) are curious about them. :)
_Middlesex_ by Jeffrey Eugenides
_The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay_ by Michael Chabon

Both those books sound great! On to the To-Read Shelf they go!

I have a terrible habit of confusing names. So I keep a list of the names which confuse me.
For example, I used to confuse Michael Chabon with Michael Gambon who was an actor in "Gosford Park".
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002091/

I remember that Chabon wrote the book _Wonderboys_ which was made into a movie with Michael Douglas and Tobey Maguire. (That's one movie I DID see!)

I also confess that I used to confuse writer/director, Nora Ephron with writer, Norah Lofts. :)

Margaret,
OK, futuristic fantasy works for me, sci-fi has so many sub-divisions and from what you told me, I'd say A World Made By Hand is in one of these sub-divisions.
Since our resources are finite, I often wonder what it'll be like AP (After Petroleum). I imagine things will have to be more community based for survival. I am intrigued by the book, I'm calling the library tomorrow. Thank you.

Joy wrote: perhaps the folks who give out the prizes are sadists. :)
I'm LMAO over that one! I see it from a different point of view, I don't think I'm lacking, I think these authors are lacking on so many levels.
Nightfall is my #1 favorite book from Asimov. I have a feeling you are going to like it, Joy. Sci-fi is a misunderstood genre. The only thing sci-fi about Nightfall is that it's set on a different planet. It's more about religion vs science and how crazy people act in the face of fear.
Some want to find meaning in the tangible, some in the mystical. It was an excellent read.
Foundation is the first of a series, so it depends on if you like series or not. I plan on re-reading them sometime this year. I'm missing Foundation and Earth, so hopefully I find it at the June Crandall Library Book Sale.
I, Robot was really another excellent book. The movie was good too. Thought provoking.
Bicentennial Man is deep. I especially enjoyed the book and it gives food for thought, What constitutes sentience?, Ethics regarding treatment of sentient robots, equal rights for sentient robots. It's thought provoking book. Things we don't have to think about right now, but maybe someday we will, and all our ducks better be in a row.
I love Asimov's thought provoking novels because he doesn't come off better-than-thou, just making observations based on human nature, and they are pretty accurate from where I'm standing.
Let me know if you read any the books and how you like the movie(s) once you've seen them.

Jackie wrote: "I see it from a different point of view, I don't think I'm lacking, I think these authors are lacking on so many levels."

You have a great attitude, Jackie. I wish I were as confident in my ideas as you are.

I didn't know that the book, _I, Robot_ had been made into a movie. I just now put it on my Netflix queue. My Netflix queue is longer than my To-Read List! LOL

OK, I'll let you know how I like these books and movies, but don't don't hold your breath. :) It may take a while. I'm having too much fun online. :)

My DVD of "Cold Mountain" just arrived today... and I still want to watch the bonus parts of "Milk". Both DVDs are waiting in their envelopes. :)

I just finished To Kill A Mockingbird-my other book group is reading it & A Tree Grows In Brooklyn.....TKAM has stayed true to me & I was not disappointed in the least....I read a horrible review on Goodreads & it surprised me....

Joy H. (of Glens Falls) wrote: "Jackie wrote: "I see it from a different point of view, I don't think I'm lacking, I think these authors are lacking on so many levels."

You have a great attitude, Jackie. I wish I were as confide..."


Joy-can't wait to hear what you think of Cold Mountain....

Becky wrote: "I just finished To Kill A Mockingbird-my other book group is reading it & A Tree Grows In Brooklyn.....TKAM has stayed true to me & I was not disappointed in the least....I read a horrible review on Goodreads & it surprised me."

I can't believe someone didn't like TKAM!

I'll post about Cold Mountain soon.
I'm still feeling sorry for Harvey Milk.

I'm feeling the same about TKAM. This is one case where Twain was wrong, LOL. I'm shocked that someone didn't like it. Even my son liked it and he hates to read.

The robots in I,Robot were awesome! And Will Smith is a good actor, totally underrated IMO. The best movie he was in was The Pursuit of Happyness (I didn't spell it wrong, LOL, that's how it's spelled).
I was blown away by his acting. It's based on a true story and it touched my heart, very inspiring. And his son played his son in the movie, what a gorgeous little boy. It's no wonder, his mother is gorgeous too, Jada Pinkett Smith.

I liked Cold Mountain, Rene Zellweger was incredible in it. A good story. I don't want to say anything about it because I don't want to ruin it for you.

Joy's going to be very busy...

Love Will Smith....

Loved Cold Mountain....

& the review that I read here on Goodreads was one of the most negative things I have ever read....it was almost trying to write as much bad as possible, if that makes any sense....

It makes sense. Why they would do it, I don't know.
I don't believe there isn't any call to be rude in a review. If you don't like it, OK, say so, but to be overly critical isn't very nice. It makes you wonder what's wrong with people.

Joy, Isaac Asimov wrote a book of short stories called I, Robot. It's 8 or 9 wonderful stories. Read that, but it can be a bit tough to find. There is now another book by the same name that is a novelization of the movie with Will Smith. Only the title is the same. Not a bad movie, but it shouldn't have been named the way it was.

There is another short story book called The Rest of the Robots which is a continuation of short stories from "I, Robot". You can pick up on his robot theme easily from that. Both have great stories in them.

Started A Tree Grows In Brooklyn....

Speaking of robots....when I was in high school, we were able to pick 2 English classes eahc year as Jr's & Sr's-it was a great thing. I did a drama class, business comp class & in my Sr year I did a sci fi class(the teacher was very young & very good looking!!). The class was so much fun!! We read R. U. R., Fahrenheit 451, The Illustrated Man-they were the ones I could think of-I still have the book we used for some of our reading....

Jim,
It's been a long time since I read I, Robot and I do mean long. If I recall correctly and I may not, weren't the short stories tied together like Dr. Calvin were telling it? I can't exactly remember. I do remember the Three Laws of Robotics and robot psychology. It was interesting, that I remember. I wish I were better at remembering details of books and movies.

Fahrenheit 451, another all time great book. I recently re-read it and find it prophecytic from the time it was written to what's going on now, with all the 'I'm offended' nonsense going on in our country today. In the novel, this is the exact thing that leads to book burning in the first place.
This is a great book about cenesorship and a Must Read for anyone who loves books.

Here's a bit of irony: In the foreword of the reprinted 1980 or 1981 book, Bradbury tells of how a college in California wanted his permission to do a play of F451 yet they wanted to change some characters because there 'weren't enough female characters' in the novel. He wouldn't give permission and I say 'Cheers' to him! It seems to me that they didn't get the concept of F451 and it's implications of changing original books so as not to offend anyone.

I was just looking for my copy so I could give the copyright date of this version and it's gone! I keep my books in their place in an orderly fashion. This is one I know I won't lend out, I'd rather buy someone a copy than lend mine. I don't know where it could have got to. Guess I'll be buying a new one.

Jackie-some many times over recent years, I think back to 451 & so much of it sounds like today, the large TV screens, the real life shows, etc-I have to back & re read!!

I do remember catching a very horrible movie version-I was flipping channels one night & found it....

A lot of old sci-fi is like that. In Brave New World and Brave New World Revisited, first published in the early 1930s, has women taking pills for contraceptives.

Jackie wrote: "Joy's going to be very busy..."

It's all a form of "play" to me. :)
===================================================
"Play: Work that you enjoy doing for nothing." -Evan Esar

"The supreme accomplishment is to blur the line between work and play." -Arnold Toynbee
===================================================

BTW, I've put "The Pursuit of Happyness" on my Netflix queue.

Joy H. (of Glens Falls) wrote: "Jackie wrote: "Joy's going to be very busy..."

It's all a form of "play" to me. :)
===================================================
"Play: Work that you enjoy doing for nothing." -Evan Esar

"T..."

I am sure you will love it Joy

Jim wrote: "Joy, Isaac Asimov wrote a book of short stories called I, Robot. It's 8 or 9 wonderful stories. Read that, but it can be a bit tough to find. . "

Jim, thanks for telling me that _I, Robot_ is a collection of short stories and not a novel. No matter. I've put it on my To-Read list, along with _Foundation_ and Asimov's "Nightfall", his collection of short stories.

I've put a reserve in at my library for _I, Robot_. Let's see if I get it.
Thanks for all the info.

Werner wrote: "Margaret, I just added World Made by Hand to my to-read shelf. Thanks for the tip!

For what it's worth, I think of post-apocalyptic novels as a branch of science fiction. Only, where much of the..."

Thanks, Werner, for this insight, I hadn't thought of it in that way! Yes, with that in mind, WORLD MADE BY HAND definitely fits under some part of the sci-fi umbrella. As I said to Jackie, it's not a genre that in general appeals to me much and I don't know a lot about it, but years ago I did enjoy reading around in both John Blackburn and Joihn Wyndham, and looking back it seems to me that their work falls at least somewhat into the category you describe of exploring "new phenomena in the social sciences." Are there other titles you would recommend that have that emphasis? And I'll be interested to hear what you think about Kunstler's book...!

Jackie wrote: "Fahrenheit 451, another all time great book. I recently re-read it and find it prophecytic from th..."

Hope you find the book, Jackie. Wiki says it was first published in 1953.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenhe...

I doubt that I'll have time to read it. So I ordered the movie from Netflix.
It's probably that "horrible movie version" which Becky mentioned. LOL

Margaret mentioned John Blackburn and John Wyndham.
So I'm posting links to them for folks like me who have never read them:
John Blackburn
John Wyndham

According to the Goodread's author description of John Wyndham, _The Midwich Cuckoos_ was filmed as "Village of the Damned". I think I'll put that on my Netflix Queue. I know it's not the same as reading the book, but at least my horizons will be raised.

Netflix describes the movie as follows:
====================================================
Village of the Damned(1995)
"John Carpenter's remake of the 1960 sci-fi thriller stars Christopher Reeve and Kirstie Alley as doctors who must try to stop a group of alien children from taking over the world. An alien force impregnates every woman in a small town, and the spawn -- who grow at an incredible rate, and can read everyone's thoughts -- attempt to conquer the earthlings. Mark Hamill and Michael Paré co-star."
====================================================

Becky wrote: "Speaking of robots....when I was in high school, we were able to pick 2 English classes eahc year as Jr's & Sr's-it was a great thing. I did a drama class, business comp class & in my Sr year I did..."

Becky, those were great H.S. classes! What a great opportunity!

When I was in H.S., the English teacher used to look as if she had fallen asleep in the back of the room while the students were reciting, one by one, up at the front of the class. I remember turning around and seeing her eyes closed as she sat at a desk at the back.

She was very dry, bland, and unenthusiastic... kind of crabby looking. She had white hair... and was probably just waiting for retirement. Too bad... because I might have majored in English had she been inspiring.

Instead, I majored in history because the H.S. history teacher was so inspiring. As I've mentioned before, her legs were paralyzed, but she walked using canes and swinging her body ahead. She had huge hands. Her name was Mrs. Cleverdon. I graduated H.S. in 1951, a long time ago.

Jackie wrote: "I wish I were better at remembering details of books and movies."

You and me both, Jackie!
You do much better than I, that's for sure!

The Day of the Triffids is also by John Wyndham. It was a good, grade B SF movie. I liked the book, too.

Jackie wrote: "Fahrenheit 451, another all time great book. I recently re-read it and find it prophecytic from th..."

Jackie, I hope you find the book. I checked at Wiki and it was first published in 1953.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenhe...

I've ordered the movie at Netflix. It's probably the "horrible movie version" Becky mentioned. :)

Jim wrote: "The Day of the Triffids is also by John Wyndham. It was a good, grade B SF movie. I liked the book, too. "

The Goodreads description says:
================================================
_The Day of the Triffids_ by John Wyndham:
"In 1951 John Wyndham published his novel The Day of the Triffids to moderate acclaim. Fifty-two years later, this horrifying story is a science fiction classic, touted by The Times (London) as having 'all the reality of a vividly realized nightmare.' "
=================================================

Sounds "horrifying". :) I'll put the movie on my Netflix queue anyway, since it's a "classic".

Day of the Triffids is one of my husband's favorite books....

Joy H. (of Glens Falls) wrote: "Margaret mentioned John Blackburn and John Wyndham.
So I'm posting links to them for folks like me who have never read them:
[a:John Blackburn|20879|John Blackburn|http://www.goodreads.com/images/..."

Hi Joy - see if Netflix has the older version of Village of the Damned, released in Britain under its original (and I think way better!) title The Midwich Cuckoos. It's 1960 or so and stars the great velvet-voiced George Sanders; for me it's much more effective than the remake, despite the rudimentary "special effects", and closer to Wyndham's book.

Jackie wrote: "It makes sense. Why they would do it, I don't know.
I don't believe there isn't any call to be rude in a review. If you don't like it, OK, say so, but to be overly critical isn't very nice. It ..."

Hi Jackie and Becky - In theatre we see a lot of that kind of gratuitously nasty criticism and we spend a lot of time talking about when and why "critics" stopped being constructive in support of the art. Unfortunately it's a lot easier and more fun to write a bad review than a good one, and a negative article makes an irresistible showcase for critics with a vitriolic sense of humor to demonstrate their gifts for snark - and then the review is about them showing off and not about whatever it's meant to be about.

In fairness to the responsible critics of the world, who genuinely love the art they're reviewing, it does sometimes happen that they see something (and this happens to me as an audience member too) that is so bad - so poorly executed, so miscast, so misconceived, so horribly wrongheaded and disrespectful of the material - that it's aggressively offensive to their sensibilities at some deep level and they get really really angry - as we all do when we see something awful happening to something we love. And then even a critic who is relatively honest and fair and diplomatic can turn rabid. Here's a link to Ben Brantley's recent review of HEDDA GABLER in the NYT, which I think is in that category:

http://theater2.nytimes.com/2009/01/2...

It's his subjective opinion, of course - there may very well be people who thought the production was wonderful - but you can tell it just outraged him in a really personal way. And to his credit, even then he did his best to keep explaining WHY he was reacting as he was.

Whenever we're on the receiving end of purely self-promoting snippery here at ACT, I remember what George Steiner said: "Critics exist by the grace of some other man's genius." So perhaps they're more to be pitied than censured...:)!

Oh, there's a new "Day of the Triffids" movie? Cool. I'll have to look for it. The one I recall was from the late 50's or early 60's. I think it was British.

Nina wrote: "I think what makes this goodreads a fun "Read" is that it's oK to disagree..I disliked, "Middlesex," looked in my Book Club Journal to check my notes on this book and all I could find was, "NO." If..."

Hi Nina - As my grandpa used to say, "That's what makes horse races"! For me "Middlesex" was a very memorable read - epic, funny, thoughtful and beautifully written, a kind of off the wall 20th century "Candide." I do see that the nature of the central character Calliope could pose a challenge in terms of connecting with her, but I thought she was an inventive and original metaphor for the various states of between-ness Eugenides was exploring: being American, but having another cultural heritage; growing up in the years between the American Dream and its demise; living in racially charged Detroit, but being neither definitively white nor definitively black. And beyond the themes of the book, I appreciated Eugenides' literate, elegant style and his vivid evocations of place and historical event. As they say in DIE FLEDERMAUS, "Chacun a son gout" [each to his own taste:]... :)

(ps her brother was called "Chapter Eleven", a family nickname resulting from his financial woes!)

Margaret wrote: "Hi Joy - see if Netflix has the older version of Village of the Damned, released in Britain under its original (and I think way better!) title The Midwich Cuckoos. It's 1960 or so and stars the great velvet-voiced George Sanders; for me it's much more effective than the remake, despite the rudimentary "special effects", and closer to Wyndham's book."

Margaret, Netflix doesn't have "The Midwich Cuckoos" movie. Too bad, because I'd like to see George Sanders in the movie.

Margaret wrote: "Jackie wrote: "It makes sense. Why they would do it, I don't know.
I don't believe there isn't any call to be rude in a review. If you don't like it, OK, say so, but to be overly critical isn't v..."

The reviewer was just looking for things to hate about the book & that is what I didn't quite get. I really don't care if someone likes or dislikes what I am reading, it was the tone in which it was written & I felt it was written to make people who happen to like To Kill A Mockingbird, somehow wrong or dumb or something, & it wasn't a "critic", it was a GoodReads member such as we are LOL!!!

Margaret mentioned "Hedda Gabler".
Wiki says: "Hedda Gabler is a play first published in 1890 by Norwegian playwright Henrik Ibsen."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedda_Ga...

Netflex has 2 different TV adaptations:

Ingrid Bergman as Hedda Gabler in a 1963 TV adaptation:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057135/

and

Diana Rigg as Hedda Gabler in a 1981 TV adaptation.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0450276/

I've ordered both of them at Netflix. It'll be fun to compare them.

Summary: "Hedda Gabler is a beautiful woman married to the solid and respectable academic George Tesman. Then an old flame, the dreamer Eilert Lovborg, turns up on the scene with tragic results."

I love comparing different versions of presentations. I saw 3 versions of "The Man Who Came to Dinner" and enjoyed them all. One was with Monty Woolley; one was with Nathan Lane; and the third was live at the Wood Theater in Glens Falls. What fun! Great humor.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033874/

Jim wrote: "Oh, there's a new "Day of the Triffids" movie? Cool. I'll have to look for it. The one I recall was from the late 50's or early 60's. I think it was British."

Jim, the DVD I ordered at Netflix is from the BBC miniseries, 1981.

Margaret, you asked me to recommend some SF titles that focus on the sociological side of the genre. I'd start with the five best (IMO) works of the dystopian tradition, which are, in chronological order: Evgeny Zamiatin's We (1924 --that's the date of the English-language publication; it was written in Russia but banned from publication by the Soviet regime); Aldous Huxley's Brave New World (1932); George Orwell's 1984 (1949); The Space Merchants (1952) by Frederik Pohl and Cyril M. Kornbluth; and Joseph Bayly's Winterflight (1981). Most of these have some mention of fictional new technology, but the central focus is on new sociological patterns, extrapolated from the trends of the author's present (all of which are still with us) and presented as awful warnings of what will happen unless those trends are challenged and changed. Most of the novels in the opposite, Utopian tradition are boring and poorly written, but an exception is William Dean Howells' A Traveler from Altruria (1894), in which a visitor from a Utopian society experiences major culture shock in 19th-century America; that reversal of the usual pattern of those novels works more efectively. Among post-apocalyptic novels, the best ones I've read are A Canticle for Leibowitz (1960) by Walter M. Miller, Jr., and Pat Frank's Alas, Babylon! (1959). Both of these deal with a world profoundly affected by the destruction of technological civilization in a nuclear war; but they're otherwise very different, just as the five dystopian visions listed here differ markedly from each other. You'll find each of these books a very distinctive, individual and thought-provoking read!

I don't know when I'll get to the Kunstler book --I have so many books on my to-read and owned-not-read shelves now that they'd practically fill a library! But I'll try to see that it's in the near rather than the distant future. :-)

Thanks, Werner. I've saved that bit re the SF titles.