Moning Maniacs discussion

Stumble wrote: "Megan so glad I have someone who agrees with me:-) Also Karen has said in a Q/A that, "She doesn’t like to start a character out bad…she likes to transition." I think Dancer is in for major changes..."

OMG can we just mention how much a cynical witch Ro was... ugh!!!
I kinda wish she can be killed again...lol

This is a bit off topic, but during a re-read it made me wonder. I had some questions about when Barrons son bites Mac's neck open.

Barrons and his men can kill Fae. So I would figure that would include his son as well, right? When he bit Mac's neck apart, she should have died. Barrons said that the Rhymer is 4000 yrs old, but can only die in the way the Fae do. The sword, the spear, and left out, would be Barrons and the boys.

Only Fae royalty can grow back body parts that are missing to heal themselves. So how does Mac's neck grow back when she only drank an elixir to make her long lived? I know these are probably stupid questions, but it makes you wonder. I know humans can heal eating Fae, but if she's no longer human, Fae rules should apply to her correct?

And lastly. When the Fear Dorcha did whatever he did to Mac. Do you think he put a little more back when he restored her like the Gray Woman did to Dani? The US are meant to take, eat, or destroy. Not give. So in giving back what they take, do you think they may also give a little of themselves in the return? Just wondering. Maybe that could have something to do with the ZEWS following Mac?

That's really interesting. Maybe the throat wound wasn't fatal to a Fae. It's possible that Barrons may have had to work a bit more to kill the Fae.

Jennifer wrote: "And if Ryo is affectionate, and says she matters, and keeps her close to the action? Well actions, remember?"

I just don't see it. Ryo's been around too long to be tempted by someone who skanks herself up by getting highlights and booby glitter. He wants someone REAL, someone who can keep up with him. Just brings me back to the "Jo matters because she matters to Dani" argument.

Jessica wrote: "This is a bit off topic, but during a re-read it made me wonder. I had some questions about when Barrons son bites Mac's neck open.

Barrons and his men can kill Fae. So I would figure that would i..."

This bit has been bothering me too. We never actually saw how Barrons kills fae. Maybe they have to eat the heart? Or do something specific?
As for Mac's neck growing back, it might have something to do with the fact that Cruce has been working and experimenting on UK's elixir.


Allison wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "And if Ryo is affectionate, and says she matters, and keeps her close to the action? Well actions, remember?"

I just don't see it. Ryo's been around too long to be tempted by some..."

Jo doesn't even dare to say what's on her mind. Dani, on the other hand, tells Ryodan what to do and he sometimes even listens. Ryodan is all about amusement. I have nothing against Jo, but let's face it, she doesn't strike me as someone who can keep Ryodan's attention forever. Dani? Definitely. Ryodan himself admits it. She's too unpredictable and hyper to ever be boring.

Well what about when Ryo kill that Fae in ICED, and all Dani notices is a couple drops of blood before Ryo blockss her view? They have to do "something" to kill the Fae, but its not ripping out their throat apparently.

Carina wrote: "Well what about when Ryo kill that Fae in ICED, and all Dani notices is a couple drops of blood before Ryo blockss her view? They have to do "something" to kill the Fae, but its not ripping out the..."

Yeah remember even Mac doesn't know how the 8 kills Fae... he manage to block that part of the vision from her, even Ryodan makes it a point to not show Dani how they do it... it has to been something complicated... taking of the hearts is a good theory!!

I don't want to fall into the trap of hating Jo just because I don't like her and Ryodan as a couple. I don't think they'll last, but I like Jo as a person.

I suspect that killing Fae requires a bit more of their beast aspect than they're willing to let others see. It might involve having to shift part way. Maybe bring out fangs and claws?

Claire wrote: "I don't want to fall into the trap of hating Jo just because I don't like her and Ryodan as a couple. I don't think they'll last, but I like Jo as a person."

+1

I feel like I've turned into some kind of Jo defender when I don't really care all that much (and it was my least favorite part of the book).

But the point I was trying to make is that we've only seen her from Dani's point of view. Which is admittedly, not flattering, because, hello, Dani is fourteen and the only woman she respects is Mac. And she wants Ryodan's undivided attention.

We just don't know what is actually going on between R&J - because it's all been offscreen except for two scenes, narrated by Dani.

Incidentally, Dani has no respect for Kat, either, but we got to experience Kat's POV, thus building some understanding and sympathy for the character.

Julija wrote: "Jessica wrote: "This is a bit off topic, but during a re-read it made me wonder. I had some questions about when Barrons son bites Mac's neck open.

Barrons and his men can kill Fae. So I would fig..."

Ryo takes some lip from Dani now. I wonder if he would if things change between them once she gets older. He doesn't strike me as the type to take lip from a woman he's tupping (to steal a slang word from the MacKeltars).

bibliophile brouhaha wrote: "Julija wrote: "Jessica wrote: "This is a bit off topic, but during a re-read it made me wonder. I had some questions about when Barrons son bites Mac's neck open.

Barrons and his men can kill Fae...."

But if they somehow miraculously end up together in the future, Dani won't be just a woman he's tupping (don'y you just love Keltars and their language?). And that's the difference between her and Jo. Ryodan will have to accept that Dani will never be obedient little sheep ready to kiss his ass. I'm not saying he has to obey her, but hey, at least she can try to boss him around...

Jennifer wrote: "Claire wrote: "I don't want to fall into the trap of hating Jo just because I don't like her and Ryodan as a couple. I don't think they'll last, but I like Jo as a person."

+1

I feel like I've t..."

Exactly! Jo isn't my favorite character but I find myself defending her because I feel that she's gotten the short end of the stick. I found Kat to be annoying and didn't like her very much when I only saw her from someone else's POV in the Fever books. But, seeing the world through Kat's eyes, I've got a better idea of the pressure she's under and I respect her ability to keep it together.

I think if we ever saw the relationship through Jo's eyes, we'd like her more. Right now we only get heavily biased glimpses of her from Dani. If Jo puts some effort into her appearance because it makes her happy, is that such a bad thing? To a total tomboy with an attitude like Dani, it probably is.

Allison, I totally agree with you, he want's someone who can keep up with him.
Julija, I think that Jo has been saying what's on her mind regarding his men, and them bringing back any people they find to Chester's - he just looks stonefaced and doesn't even deign to answer;-). And when Dani and Ryo fight outside Chester's, Jo was throttled like they didn't even notice her arguements. Sorry if I repeat myself!

Claire wrote: "Exactly! Jo isn't my favorite character but I find myself defending her because I feel that she's gotten the short end of the stick."

I think it's just you and me on this one< Claire. :) We shall see what happens...

@Jennifer I think we're more than capable of holding our own =]

I think that if we ever do get to see the world from Jo's eyes, a lot of people will be surprised. Maybe she defers to Ryodan, but she's been trained to fight and kill creatures since a very young age. And since Jo hasn't gotten herself killed yet, she's clearly tougher than she looks.

I have a feeling that Jo will get killed or sacrifice herself at some point and that is what will bring Dani and Ryo together. I think if he just dumped Jo as soon as Dani were old enough, that would not sit will with Dani! I agree with what a few of you said about Dani loosing her virginity to Dancer, although I think something will happen after where we will find out he is not what he seems kind of like what happened with Vlane!

Meredith, I too believe that something is going to happen to someone Dani loves, something so life-altering that will be the catalyst that brings Dani and Ryodan together. Either Jo or Dancer, but I am leaning toward Jo. I think Dancer is something other, Rhymer, a piece of the Unseelie King or Fae-touched, so his life is not in question, in my opinion. Jo, on the other hand, is human, and her death would affect both Dani and Ryodan. We have no indication as to how deep feelings run between Ryodan and Jo, but her death might really affect him more than we ever would think.

Mac grew up after her sister died - but she loved and respected her deeply. Dani is a harder case - she has little respect for those females whose strengths are different from hers. And, for obvious reasons, she holds them at arm's length when they try to care for her or show affection.

At this point if Jo died, Dani'd probably just roll her eyes and chalk it up to Jo's supposed idiocy and inferior weakness. I can't imagine it would make an impact, unless it was truly a heroic sacrifice.

How interesting would it be to see Dani have to recognize a deeper,less showy power? That might be just the thing that would force her to grow up.

That, and truly atoning for Alina's death. She still thinks in b&w comic book terms, and is all id and ego wrapped in one. It's kind of tiring, to be honest, and she's not really a heroine I'm rooting for. I keep thinking of Barrons plucking her out of thin air in Dreamfever, like she's an annoying bug. God, I love that image.

I think that Dani would be genuinely bothered by Jo's death. If she didn't care about Jo at all, Dani wouldn't be so enraged by the thought of Jo being trapped at Chester's or afraid that Jo would get hurt. Dani might not respect the other sidhe-seers, but she cares about them.

I can't say that I'm rooting for Dani to be with Ryodan. My opinion might change as Dani gets older, but at this point the thought of them together creeps me out. Dani definitely needs to grow up a bit more emotionally. Her childhood might have made her strong in some ways, but it stunted her emotional growth.

As for Dancer being the bad guy: I don't think KMM would write the same situation twice. What makes her a good writer is that she manages to surprise the reader. If she repeated the V'lane situation, it wouldn't be too inventive.

Claire wrote: "I don't think KMM would write the same situation twice."

That's what worries me with the world - there's a set roster of characters, and it seems like we are heading into PNR land. Nine immortal alphas and the sidhe-seers who love them (love to hate them?). Please, KMM, don't match them all up MacKeltar style!

Jennifer wrote: "Claire wrote: "I don't think KMM would write the same situation twice."

That's what worries me with the world - there's a set roster of characters, and it seems like we are heading into PNR land. ..."

I love the idea of reading more about the 9 immortal alphas!!!!
but I diffently agree no match up MacKelter style, loved it then, but I feel it's getting overdone..IMHO

I haven't read the Hilander series, but I wouldn't want all the 8 to get paired up. Yes, selfish of me, but I would like to keep some mistery to these stories. Its part of the appeal.

Laroc wrote: "Agree with you! I´m pretty convinced about Dani being, at least part, the same that the 8, but I can´t shake off me an idea...
Am I the only one that thinks it is weird how many times all the princ..."


ooh so agree with your theory, I though maybe Dani contains the song of making in her....(hence the light glowing out of her).. she could very well turn into the seelie queeen.

@Jennifer Since KMM plans to go back to writing mostly about Mac and Barrons after her Dani sojourn I don't think we need to worry too much about a Highlander style pair up. After all, KMM says she has no plans to return to romance. Then again, at the end of her last full length Highlander she said she had no plans to end her Highlander series....

Davena wrote: "Carina wrote: "Well what about when Ryo kill that Fae in ICED, and all Dani notices is a couple drops of blood before Ryo blockss her view? They have to do "something" to kill the Fae, but its not..."

I'm still reading Iced, but from the Fever books, I always thought Barrons was a vampire, and that he sucked the blood from the seelie princess - killing her.

We do know that Ryodan has fangs because he bit Dani on the neck so he could track her.

Ok Friends.. I FINALLY FINISHED ICED. HOLY HELL. I literally finished the book 5 minutes ago…This one thing is bothering the FECK out of me…

**This HFK is like the second biggest thing to happen since the walls came down, right?? And you are telling me that the 2 main components in saving the world the first time (eh- Mac and Barrons...) CONVENIENTLY had nothing to do with saving the world this time?? I feel like Ryo and Barrons call each other whenever they get a flipping splinter- and Barrons wasn't by Ryo's side fighting the ICE MONSTER?? I don't know...I am sure we will get an answer by the next book...but that honestly just annoyed me. I know this was Dani's book...but where was Barrons and Mac while the world was getting iced...
**In other news…THANK GOD Ryo is not Dani’s love interest. In fact I loved that he became this weird/crude evil father figure. CLEARLY Dani is almost like the 8 or is one of the 8?? I CAN NOT WAIT to find out what the deal is there. But Lor and Ryo definitely have the little sister they never wanted…lol
**Did you guys like the book?? I think I would give it a 4 star on goodreads. But I think if I picked it up ‘ICED’ without knowing the other Fever stories it would only rate like a 3 ½. As predicted Dani’s POV and voice irked me a bit, and it did have a bit of YA about it. KMM said it wouldn’t but seriously…just because Ryo says Fuck every 3 lines does not make this a paranormal romance…
All in All, successful start to Dani's series...ALTHOUGH...not too happy about Jo and Ryo's little romance. But like others said, Maybe when we get Jo's POV we will come to like their "budding" ehem romance.

I kept trying to like Christian. I really did. He is just so different from the person he used to be. I mean he went- from a highlander to an Unseelie prince. He just got totally weird. And his blatant love for Dani just made him more disagreeable as a character. But I think that is where KMM wanted to take him. Somehow he is going to retain some human identity...I have a feeling we will see him as a hero again...

As for Ryo...I never once got the feeling he was in Dani's life to eventually be a love interest. Dani has never had anyone in her life try to set rules and boundaries for her. He has been stalking her since she was a child...Maybe she is one of the 8? Who knows... However, he has time and time again wanted to protect her. Everytime they investigated he just wanted to grow her, somehow grow whatever skills she has...
I made be totally off base, but the only person who really showed true love interest in her was Christian (as misguided as it was) And I think Dancer is a bit infatuated as well. Has anyone made any guesses about Dancer or who/what he is???

KMM's style of romance in the Fever series evolves over several books compared to the Highlander series. So it is still paranormal romance it just doesn't wrap up in one book. Plus, we have to consider Dani's age. While she is older in some world experiences than typical 14 yr olds, in other ways she is very much her age & most of us would never accept a "hero" molesting a child. No matter what her maturity is in other areas.

I also agree it was unreal to think Barrons & Mac would stay out of the HFK situation.

I want to know if the 9 all have different abilities it seems they might because it appears Ryo can read minds. How did he figure out that Dani killed Alina? If it was so easily to read on her face then Mac would have known earlier. Idk but I am ready for Flayed NOW!!!!

L. Vale wrote: "Mich wrote: "Ok Friends.. I FINALLY FINISHED ICED. HOLY HELL. I literally finished the book 5 minutes ago…This one thing is bothering the FECK out of me…

**This HFK is like the second biggest thin..."

L Vale, I disagree too. I am almost sure that Karen has a future planned for Ryodan and Dani, although I cannot completely rule out Christian (more on that in a second). It is obvious that there are some very strong feelings coming from Ryodan, and even Christian admits in his inner dialogue that he can see that Ryodan intends to have Dani as his. Ryodan sees all of the potential of a future mate in Dani, and I believe he is going to mold and teach her, just as Barrons did Mac.

I feel there is a small possibility that Karen may have a future planned for Christian and Dani. Even though Christian seems bipolar and is struggling to retain his human half, he is a Keltar, and for anyone that has read Karen's Highlander series, they would understand when I say that it sounds as if Christian has found his one true mate. I think that Dani is going to help redeem Christian, just as Dageus was redeemed in The Dark Highlander.

I also did not feel that Iced was in the young adult genre, at all. Karen has been very clear that this is not a young adult series and there was sex in Iced, although not with our Dani. Karen has said that Dani will lose her virginity in this series.

Christian gave me the creeps. Seriously, who claims dibs on a 14 year old's virginity??

As for Ryo, eh I could see him just being a father figure or something, but then I'd need a really good explanation for why he got hot and bothered after Dani stripped and almost died and subsequently had to work out his tenseness on Jo.

I really liked Iced, but part of got the creeps over these guys effectively grooming Dani.

Mich wrote: "Ok Friends.. I FINALLY FINISHED ICED. HOLY HELL. I literally finished the book 5 minutes ago…This one thing is bothering the FECK out of me…

**This HFK is like the second biggest thing to happen s..."



Yeah I disagree as well, I never got the feeling that Ryodan would be a father figure for Dani. To me it was obvious that he had strong feelings for her.

What I do agree on is why Barrons and Mac weren't there to help figh HFK. I wish we saw more of them in the book.

Christian was just straight up creepy. But I do feel sorry for him.

I loved ICED. Definitely a 5 star for me. =)

@Robin I had the same thought about Dani as Christian's mate. The only thing that's holding me back from that line of thought is that the attraction goes both ways, and Dani doesn't seem remotely interested in Christian.

The idea of Ryodan being aroused by Dani definitely creeps me out. No matter how you look at it, she's a 14 year old girl and he's a full grown man. And since he's positively ancient, Dani's practically an infant compared to him.

I think Dani is one of the 8. I don't think she's truly 14 either--they age way slower--she just thinks she is fourteen. Remember Barron's CAGED son? Remember all the caged references Dani made? The similarities are endless. Dani doesn't realize she was caged for a reason and I bet Rowena used her as a weapon.

Cait1204. That is a brilliant theory. Especially since we don't know all of their names. The only thing that keeps me from going with that theory is the scene in Dreamfever when the men break into the abbey with Barrons to get Mac. Doesn't Dani mention how many men there are when she describes them?

Robin wrote: "Cait1204. That is a brilliant theory. Especially since we don't know all of their names. The only thing that keeps me from going with that theory is the scene in Dreamfever when the men break in..."

I'm re-reading the series as we speak to look for clues. She may be the offspring of one of the men and since she may be a female version, she may altogether be the same, but different.

In Iced Dani mentions to Ryodan that she wishes she was like him. He responds with something to the effect, " ask me in a few more years." ( I can't remember what page.) Another subtle yet huge clue.

Dani also references a lot of old television programs which leads me to believe she either watched a lot of Nick at Nite, or she is in fact a lot older than she thinks.

I just finished the book and really loved it.

I enjoyed Dani as a narrator more than expected. When talking with others she sometimes got on my nerves but I like her way of telling a story. I also liked getting glimpses into Christian's head. Not sure about the Kat parts though. Was it to give us info about the IFP thing? But then there is Cruce as well... I wonder how much we'll see of that in the next books.

I fell in love with Ryo in the Fever books but now I love him even more. Awesome guy who is always prepared and likes being in control! My fave scenes were when he slammed Dani into that pillar and when he was telling R'jan he's the King and Master of Dublin.

The Jo parts made me laugh. She's so delusional. But she can live in her fairy tale until Ryo doesn't need her anymore for fu**ing and information. LOL

I'm against a Ryo and Dani pairing for several reasons and I'm glad that Iced didn't go in that direction. I don't get romantic vibes from Ryodan. Dani is a weapon he can use and won't share.

I can't stand Mac and was glad we didn't see a lot of her but I was WTF because she and Barrons didn't help fighting against the HFK. Very weird.

I still think Dani is somehow related to the Nine. I know the sidhe-seers can have special powers but she's so similar to them.

So many questions...

Dancer was great, btw. I hope he'll stay human. That would be a nice change to all those people having or getting special powers, immortality etc. But I wonder about his dark secrets.

L. Vale wrote: "Am I the only one who wants Dani for Ryo?"

LOL no your not the only one. I want Dani and Ryo to end up together too. =D

No, I don't like Ryo. I like Dancer as he is now, but we know he will become real shady or something later on.

Oh Christian. I love Christian pre-Unseelie consumption. I don't know about him now. I feel bad for him & worry if this can be undone. Not sure how.

I loved Christian before his transformation. Now? Well, I'll give KMM credit, she certainly knows how to write a tortured character well. Christian just creeps me out now. I'm having a hard time remembering the charming Highlander he used to be!

@L.Vale & @Ntzee same here! I'd love to see Ryo and Dani together! Pair from hell I'm telling you if Ryo wasn't immortal he would have grey hairs from worrying about her!

BTW I'd like to say (confess) that I like Christian better now!

*don't shoot, don't shoot*

But I find him more intriguing than the highlander boy who fell in the silvers, he can never be pure Unseelie and it gives him tons of potential.

Kimberly wrote: "No, I don't like Ryo. I like Dancer as he is now, but we know he will become real shady or something later on."

Why do we know that? I'm confused.

Claire wrote: "I loved Christian before his transformation. Now? Well, I'll give KMM credit, she certainly knows how to write a tortured character well. Christian just creeps me out now. I'm having a hard time remembering the charming Highlander he used to be!"

That's true. But I agree with Marina, it makes him more interesting and I like the way KMM wrote him in Iced.

I love Ryodan and would love to see him paired up with Dani when she is older. That being said, I also think Dani would match up well with Dancer. I think she is going to lose her virginity to Dancer, which will really upset Ryodan because we all know he will figure that out just by body language and reading her thoughts.

I have wondered if Karen would take the Highlander route with Dani and Christian, where she redeems him and will be his Keltar mate, but I just don't see that happening. I am really wondering if Christian will be hurt even more because Dani chooses Ryodan, throwing him over the edge to a Cruce-like Unseelie Prince. He already is very serious about killing Mac and Barrons. Wouldn't it be interesting if Cruce and Christian eventually team up to bring everyone down?

I just finished this last night, and it was amazing! I'm still trying to calm down from it.

I don't know about most of you, but I am seriously enjoying Ryodan and Dani's constant fighting. The way I see it, there's hope for RyoDani to happen! Jo is in the picture, but like one of you said above, you think he's using her to satisfy his base needs. I agree. And though he's using Jo, I believe who he really wants is Dani, but she's too young at the moment. He's already keeping her close, watching out for her, and waiting for her to grow up, so he can stake his claim. :)
Oh, I'm really keen on the idea of Ryodan and Dani.

Then there's Christian. Even though he is transitioning into an Unseeling Prince, he is such a sweetie, treating Dani like his princess. I do like Christian; however, I think he's wrong for Dani. An UP and sidhee seer just doesn't work for me.

@ Sarah I know you at a hard judge on books what aspects of Iced did you like?

Marina, I totally agree with you that Christian is so much more interesting now as a prince!

Don't want to see him with Dani though, Ryo and Dani are peas in the fever pod IMHO;-)

I finished a few days ago and have spent the last couple of days checking this group's comments. the story left me feeling frustrated in general. I hated the "baited hook" feeling I got about Dani and Ryo's relationship. After the Christian/Ryo exchange (or non-exchange) as Ryi and Dani walked back to the club, I felt pretty clear that both men have a sexual interest in Dani. So, for the rest of the book, i was left trying to force characters into roles they didn't quite fit into. A bunch of square pegs and hexagonal holes... I have no clue who/what Dancer is, but i think he has the best chance if claiming Dani's virginity when the time comes. I can't see an easy resolution to the Ryo/Jo relationship is Ryo really is just using her to pass time until Dani matures. I don't think Dani would be so cruel to Jo. Christian's situation mkes me ill! I hate him as the up-and-coming UP. His story is truly fecked up by no fault if his own. I don't think Dani is his mate, but i hope he gets a HEA in this series. Since he had no memory of "engagement talk" with Dani, I am seriously hoping that his Unseelie consciousness can be separated from him some way. I think I read that he'd asked his father about cutting off his wings, so ( assuming he was talking about the Keltars) maybe the Highlanders will make an appearance in thiis series later on. There are so many plausible theories on the direction of this series that I my head is spinning. I will give this book a re-read this week and likely review the Highlander and Fever proper series before Burned is out... let the torturous wait fir the next book begin!

Baited hook, great analogy, same for square pegs. I had that same feeling.

I've also read a lot of convo after reading, and have to say that more and more I feel bummed that romance, of all things, is the bigger plot point than all the other crazy shite going on! And what a romance, ugh, but hey, even Dani herself showed zero interest, even going so far as to be pretty "ew sex cooties!" and too much of a mess to be even near anything remotely like that. I resent the baited hook, when all the other facets of her growing up would be so much more interesting!!

So I guess I am devil's advocate, but I agree with this review, and kind of loved how Madame X perfectly laid out why Ryodan is no Barrons. http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

Stumble wrote: " Ryo and Dani are peas in the fever pod IMHO;-)"

Well said Stumble! :)