The Sword and Laser discussion

Ok, this was a fast read. The book itself was short and a light read, so you get by the pages without even noticing. Something like Saturday afternoon TV ?

(report of my review)
This was my first Tad Williams book and, I have to say, I will be looking for others.

On DSoH, Tad Williams does the most important thing: he tells a story. This is an unpretentious book that simply doesnt take itself too seriously, with enough twists to make it interesting, but not enough to make it tiresome.

DSoH is a light, fast paced fantasy, set in an easy to digest universe. The religous overtones are tasteful, and not specific for any religion. It is just a backdrop against which the story played.

Yes, there are minor cliffhangers, if you can call them that. Mostly, they are unfinished subplots that leave a good hook for the next books. The smell of trilogy is in the air. However, the main storyline is concluded to satisfaction, so finishing the book leaves you with a feeling of wanting more, but without any frustration.

I have been reading quite a bit of urban fantasy lately. The two authors who got me into the genre are Kim Harrison and Patricia Briggs, although I like Briggs' fantasy books as well.

Overall an enjoyable read. Good but not great.

Far from Tad William's best work though.

I prefer his more classical fantasy books like the "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" trilogy that starts with The Dragonbone Chair

This was also my first Tad Williams book. I wasn't crazy about it. Bobby Dollar was an alright character but I feel like the book was missing something. I can't put my finger on it but it felt like it was missing something. I dunno. Just wasn't a fan of this one.

This was my first Tad Williams book too, but it won't be the last - I really liked it a lot and want to read more of Bobby Dollar! I've heard from others (including some in this group) that Williams' other books are even better, so I'm looking forward to checking those out.

I'm a librarian in the Raleigh, NC, area, and here's my review on our library's book-a-day blog: http://ow.ly/2t2xy6

I agree with others here (and on other discussion threads) that it is similar to The Dresden Files by Butcher, Anita Blake series by Hamilton, Good Omens by Gaiman & Pratchett, and the TV show Dead Like Me. I also thought it was a bit similar to The Incarnations of Immortality series by Anthony.

Easy fast read that had me chuckling, I was amazed this was the same author as The Dragonbone Chair because I couldn't seem to get into that one at all and lemmed it with the thought of maybe picking it back up at a later date. I disagree about it being a good stand alone, I was rather unsatisfied with where things left off and I wish I had the next book in my hands right now.

Also just finished. I agree with Dara. The book seemed to be missing something... I don't know what. Maybe a solid conclusion. However, there are supposed sequels coming out, so maybe we'll have more of an ending then.

I enjoyed it but I don't think it was worth the $12.99 for the new Kindle version. I wish this group didn't sometimes pick brand new books. We have only two rules in my other (face 2 face) book club and one of them is: the book has to be in paperback. It's been great and usually the Kindle version price drops when the book comes in paperback and it just gives it time for all formats to be out and maybe even the library has more copies and such. Worth considering...

I enjoyed this book and it is also my intro to Tad Williams. All of the religious references seemed a bit weird at first but it may depend on your upbringing. This was one of those Audible books that had be up all night i.e. just one more chapter and before you know it, morning.

I will definitely be looking for his other works.

I thought it was meh

Jim wrote: "I enjoyed it but I don't think it was worth the $12.99 for the new Kindle version. I wish this group didn't sometimes pick brand new books. We have only two rules in my other (face 2 face) book c..."

That's one of the reasons why I skip many of the S&L books. I'm not paying $12.99 for a book when there are hundreds on my to-read list available at the second hand bookstore. There's a recession on you know :)

This book has a couple of other pros and cons going for it too.
Pro - It's a Tad Williams book. Have read 8 others and loved them all.
Con - It's a Tad Williams book. It's going to turn into a work of 1000s of pages and I hate to start an unfinished series.

Yeah, I think I'm with you AndrewP. I'm loving S&L, but I'm not going to buy any more new, expensive books. I'll wait until they're in paperback myself and catch up with the discussions/videos then (like I am the rest of the ones I've missed).

I prefer to get them from the library if possible, or Kindle. But not at new, hardback prices. Tigana was the only one since I've joined up that I had to by the physical book, but it was in paperback so that was cool.

I got this one just because I had a gift card.

Yeah, it might be better to let the books be out for a few months, come out in paperback at least, and get some good reviews on them before we make them an S&L pick.

Just a suggestion. Thanks.

I loaned my mum my kindle to read this book (first time she's reading a book on kindle and it was kind of amusing to watch her figure it out). So far she's loving it. I'm interested to see what her final verdict is.

I have to admit something of a love/hate relationship with Williams' books. I read all of Memory, Sorrow & Thorn, and enjoyed it overall. I could not get past the first 10 chapters of the first Otherland book.

DSoH was a departure for me, then, from what I associate as his regular work. I thought the characters were done quite well, and really enjoyed Bobby Dollar and the whole mystery scenario. Williams' metaphysics were a bit jarring at first, but quickly became an interesting puzzle to work out. In particular I enjoyed the question to Clarence (which in itself was a really fun riff) about questioning what is presented and determining what is real from what is presented.

While the wold building was great, I thought the characters were by far the best part. George Newbern tackles the voices as a pro ought, and this is the best form of audio story save a full cast production. I'll have to look for more of his work.

I want to know what happens in the rest of this series, but I don't think I want to know bad enough to read the rest of the series. I'll just have to wait and see if the rest of the series is better than this first book.

I enjoyed this book but hated the ending. It just seemed to fizz out without really solving anything in a satisfactory way. As I was getting to the I kept thinking when is this big finish coming and then I ran out pages.

The rest of the book I found gripping and entertaining

I thought the book was fun, but kind of predictable. I had a strong feeling as to who-dun-it way early. It was still fun to read though, and made me laugh out loud a couple times. I look forward to picking up some of Tad William's other books, and I'll probably read the next installment of Bobby Dollar's adventures also.

Anyone else get a Dresden Files vibe from this book? It seemed very much like Fool Moon to me.

Finished today. It started out ok, but the tone of the book wore on me. Too light and I thought it ended flat.

My review http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

I have to chime in a agree with some other people. While a great book, the ending was terrible. It was like he was trying to pull off a Neil Stephenson ending . . . without, you know, resolving anything. Which is not so quietly driving me insane.

This is probably gonna be another book/series that I only start recomeneding to friends when it is finished.

I finished it this morning.
It was an ok read. The characters seemed a little one dimensional with little depth. I can't say warmed to Bobby Dollar at all.
More dirty sheets of heaven than dirty streets. :)

I enjoyed the book in a way, but I think Bobby Dollar's character annoyed me too much for me to say I loved the book. I didn't hate him or anything, but his vernacular was jarring sometimes. That being said, I did enjoy the world Tad Williams created a lot more than I liked the main character. I kind of feel like I want to know more about the world than I want to know what happens to Bobby Dollar in later books.

Just finished the book today. I loved nearly ever moment of the story. I thought the sex scene with the Countess of Cold Hands was a little gratuitous. Other than that, I really loved this book.

I thought we might see Bobby Dollar find a way to redeem the Countess of Cold Hands; but that might be in another Bobby Dollar story.

Great choice. It left me looking forward to more Bobby Dollar stories as well as wanting to read more Tad Williams.

I just finished this book today. I enjoyed the read. I have not read Tad Williams before, so I can't compare this to anything else.

I will be interested once the second book comes out to see where is goes. I had no problems where it left off.

Enjoyed the story but couldn't get on with the written style. Wasn't an amazing book but I was intrigued enough by the story to want to finish it despite not getting on with the prose. I will probably read the sequels, but only when I don't have something else on the go.

First post by me.

I finished the book yesterday. Yes, I got a Dresden Files feel from it (I should list those books here on Goodreads). I thought the book was good, made better by the fact that the other book I was reading was horrible. I love urban fantasy, despite the fact that I don't like getting caught up in 'current fads'. Overall, a pretty good book, looking forward to finishing the series.

Finished it yesterday, i have the same problem as some others seem to have, where I couldnt warm to any of the characters. I also could not get into the whole "love" with a demoness thing. I felt it happened too quick and if the protagonist was really some sort of battle hardened heavenly ex-marine then he wouldn't have been attracted to Caz. I felt that moved far too quick and I just wouldnt see her motivation at all.

I also thought that while the ending was expected it was almost as if Mr Williams couldnt decide who would take the untimate fall for the plot. It seemed a bit ham fisted to me.

Also, while it normally annoys me when reviewers call a character chauvenistic, I really saw it this time. Everything Dollar did reeked of a self-serving egotistical and self-destructive attitude of someone who knows they cannot, infact self-destruct. It seems a tad melodramatic for someone who professes to take his job so seriously.

I read the Otherland series, and I much prefer this book. (Brevity, no doubt, played a part.)

There was only one point in the book that I thought it failed a bit, because Bobby Dollar should have been able to rationalize a piece of the puzzle out. But other than that, I love it.

Jim wrote: "I prefer to get them from the library if possible, or Kindle. But not at new, hardback prices. Tigana was the only one since I've joined up that I had to by the physical book, but it was in paperback so that was cool."

My library had a copy available early last month, so I went that route. I'm guessing Some libraries are faster than others at new acquisitions.

Alex wrote: "Maybe it's because I haven't read much urban fantasy or detective novels in the past, so it all seemed new and interesting to me? "

That could be. I've read a descent amount (all of 3 series by 3 different authors amounting to 30+ books maybe, and short stories in a few others). I wasn't terribly impressed by this book's writing.

Alex wrote: "Maybe it's because I haven't read much urban fantasy or detective novels in the past, so it all seemed new and interesting to me? "

Have you read The Rook? I thought that was a lot better. I'm like you in that I haven't read too much urban fantasy. Unlike you, the genre hasn't appealed to me much so far. I think I'll give Dresden a go at some stage but if I don't like that then I might just stay clear of it

Jim wrote: "I enjoyed it but I don't think it was worth the $12.99 for the new Kindle version. I wish this group didn't sometimes pick brand new books. We have only two rules in my other (face 2 face) book c..."

Actually, we very rarely read brand new books.

Good to know Veronica, thanks.

I've just finished and I have to say it was pretty bad. The book I read before this one was Abercrombie's 'Red Country' which very clearly contrasted a really good author and Tad Williams.
This review here: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13...
says everything you need to know, so I will not repeat that here.
I very much doubt that I'll anything else by Mr. Williams again I' afraid.

Enjoyed it enough to be thoroughly entertained but as mentioned earlier, don't see why there should be more volumes in the series. This was a solid story, and I'm not interested in diving into this world any further. The author created great ambiance and wrote memorable characters. I only found the writing tiresome when bobby dollar's thoughts were being dragged out page after page.

This is my first Tad Williams book so I can't compare it to any of his other works, but on its own I thought it was a decent story. The world that was developed was interesting and the overall story kept me engaged. The humor kept me going when the plot started to slow down or when the action seemed too long. I'm a little disappointed with the ending in that issues were settled a little too coincidentally, but maybe that is common in mystery or noire novels. I know the book is setting up for a sequel, but I felt that it ended way too quickly and left a few too many questions unanswered.

Just finished it. In general, I like urban fantasy of the Neil Gaiman-esque variety, and I like hard-boiled/noir detective stories in the Raymond Chandler vein. But I've rarely found a book trying to combine the two that I've really liked. Some are better than others, but I wouldn't hold up any of them as my favourites. I think it's because trying to combine the Chandler-style, cynical first-person narration with long expository infodumps is one of the most irritating things to read. It's like listening to a lecture from a smug know-it-all. And this book definitely suffers from that, especially in the first half.

That all said, I think this is one of the better examples of the subgenre. Like a proper noir protagonist, Bobby Dollar is capable and committed, but plagued by personal demons (ha!) and despite all his skills and confidence, is still caught up in things way over his head and definitely suffers for it. And while I predicted a couple of plot resolutions, (view spoiler)[ Williams really blindsided me about Moses Habari's identity. Just like Dollar, I'd guessed it was Leo too. I was really impressed by that. (hide spoiler)]

In short: was it good? Pretty good, yeah. A lot better than I usually expect from this genre. Would I read more in the series? Probably not. This story had some interesting things and a couple of compelling characters, but in general it doesn't really do anything I haven't seen elsewhere.

Joe wrote: "Just finished it. In general, I like urban fantasy of the Neil Gaiman-esque variety, and I like hard-boiled/noir detective stories in the Raymond Chandler vein. But I've rarely found a book trying ..."

It might be a good idea to put some of your comments in spoiler tags. This thread has mostly been overall opinions on the book with little to no specific plot points.

I really liked this book! The story, while maybe not the most complex, was good. But what really sold me were all the quirky characters! A really fun read! :)

This was my first Tad Williams book, and I definitely liked it enough to take a look at his other works. It was a fun, quick read. I've never been a mystery person, so I wasn't sure I would be able to get into it. But it turns out that a mystery can hold my interest if it's taking place in the midst of an good fantasy setting.

I agree with some of the other posts here - the ending left me a little disappointed. I actually hadn't realized going into it that it was a series, so I felt let down when I got the end and still had a lot of unanswered questions. Once I realized that there would be additional books, though, it made sense.

It was strange, though, that at the end of the book, the main character seemed to think that everything was over and done. If the next book was going to pick up with the same storyline, I almost would have expected Bobby to be asking some of the same questions I was in the final chapter, just to give us a little tease of what would be answered in the future.

But like I said, I very much enjoyed it overall.

I enjoyed it and I didn't. I do feel like I owe #2 a read to really get an idea of where the series is going. Here is my full thoughts on it: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

I also enjoyed this book. Extremely different to Cloud Atlas and felt a bit like a come down after the heady heights and big topics that book dealt with.

It was a very enjoyable read but the story wasn't as complex and as clever as I would have liked given the genre style it was aping. I agree with the above comments that it felt like a Saturday TV show where you can just switch off and let it flow. Took very little time to read despite not being a small book.

I hope, and think, that this is just a solid introduction to a more complex plot coming in the next books in the series. The world TW has created is very fun, and feels seedy and makes it very hard to trust anyone which is what I found fun about the book.

I would have preferred a cliff hanger of an ending, rather than just letting all the threads you had been following just languish unfinished. That way when you finish the book you would have had more to think about, as it is it felt very much like how you feel after you leave a movie theatre having watched the latest blockbuster.

Rob wrote: "It might be a good idea to put some of your comments in spoiler tags. This thread has mostly been overall opinions on the book with little to no specific plot points."

Sorry about that. I figured the title of the thread made it okay, but now that you mention it, you're right--better safe than sorry.

Joe wrote: "Sorry about that..."

No worries. Didn't spoil anything for me, I read it months ago, just figured it was a good idea based on what you said. Thanks for editing!

I liked it. Its easily the most accessible Williams book I've read. It was also a HUGE departure from his style in other books. This book was pretty straightforward full steam ahead in plot development whereas his other books tend to meander at points in long chapters that really add nothing to the story except page padding.

I'll definitely read the followups when they come out though they are not going to be something I start planning my reading schedule for . . . . I'm currently not starting the next Malazan book simply because I'm trying to keep my reading short and easy up and until Memory of Light comes out in January.

I finished it last week. I enjoyed the book. It was a very easy read and by Williams' standards the equivalent of a magazine article lengthwise.

I am looking forward to the next one.

I thoroughly enjoyed this rendition of Angels and Demons. This was my first Tad Williams novel and will definitely look for the next one in this trilogy.

Finished the book yesterday. It was kind of Dresden Files -light experience for me; entertaining, but lacking a bit on all fronts. Then again, had I read this first and the first few Dresden Files books after it, I might think just the other way.

The noticeable Noir-feeling also showed up fairly late in the book. The long buildup makes sense as this is the first part of a trilogy, but it didn't really enchange the reading experience.

Solid average book on my scale. Entertaining, but could have been much more.

I'm going to agree with you. Now, I didn't really feel the first couple of Dresden Files books, but I still think that even those early ones were better than this. I think Williams was trying too hard to do something different from what he usually does and it felt that way. I like well-done noir, but I don't think this was it.

On the other hand, I just started The Devil You Know by Mike Carey and have read over 100 pages in a couple of hours reading time. It's extremely well-done urban fantasy noir and it's really easy to see the difference, even if I can't explain it.

The description Veronica and Tom gave of Dirty Streets on YouTube is what finally got me to try reading an S&L book during the month, and I can't say I'm all that displeased.

Sure, it's not the world's greatest literature or the next Harry Potter, but I wanted something fun, light, and quick to read over Thanksgiving break, and I got it. Bobby Dollar, while not endearing, was entertaining. I do think Williams sort of copped out on the demons - they could have been way more interesting and instead got cliche (especially Grasswax at the start). Only the Countess wasn't a cliche and she's got the tragic figure label now. The Heaven characters had a bit more variety.

Overall, it wasn't a bad first experience with an S&L book. I have the first Dresden Files book on reserve at the library, so we'll see if I keep liking the S&L recommendations, and if I agree with all of you who say they're similar.