The Darkness That Comes Before discussion

R. Scott Bakker

I am really enjoyed "the prince of nothing" series and ready the next trilogy(the aspect emperor). All very good fantasy. Seem to be under the radar some how. Has anyone else read his books? What are your thoughts?

I think he's an amazing writer, with a different approach to epic fantasy.
Yes he is not very well known to the wider masses, but that is to be expected I guess, since his tale is not something that aims to please the masses. Many people find his writing too depressing and bleak, or even sexist. It's not everyone's cup of tea, and I hope Bakker remains true to his work.

I have checked out a few reviews about him online, and just like you said some people are not so keen on his righting. I have no clue were the sexist thing comes from. His female characters are very strong. I think he shows the truth of human emotion in a lot of his characters. Maybe some people are not able to handle this type of mirror. I was hooked to his books from the moment that Kellus walked out into the wilderness and met his first normal person. Can't remember the name it has been so long but the character was a recluse and really like the why Bakker opened up his inner workings.

Anyway I agreee. I hope he keeps up his style.

Cheers

I have read all of his books and found his world-building fascinating. I love the shifts in perspective and I'm really curious to see how it all turns out.
If anything, Bakker's writing gets better as the story goes on, but I find myself a bit worn out after reading them.
As for the sexism charges. The society depicted is not like ours, it's more like our world in 1000AD women are not equals to men. Even the Empress is a former prostitute. I can understand why some people would have a problem with this, Bakker has handled the matter is a somewhat cack-handed way, but I think his critics are unable to separate the man from his works.

Hello Stacey

I agree with your statement of getting a little worn out after one of his books. I am not a scholar and I find his books make me think a little harder than most other novels do.
That is part of the attraction for me. I like to work my mind a little and Bakker uses some really interesting motives with his characters. His books are almost a study in Psychology for me. The motives behind the actions of the characters are so clear in his books, its great.
I really don't understand critics sometimes. I don't think that they have read any of Bakker's books.
I am reading Clive Cussler's firs book right now (The Mediterranean Caper). WOW talk about sexist. Good old Drik Pitt is slapping some sense into the ladies and then bedding them......... I am surprised these books are still allowed in print.
Bakker has a women that may have been a prostitute but she does her best to hold an empire together. That is a strong women character.
Critics are odd at the best of times.

Cheers

Problem with Bakker's books is they make you question some things rooted deep in human psyche and society, things you used to take for granted. Bakker really did change the way I think and perceive world around me, and not many authors can do that. My guess is most people and critics look for entertainment in this kind of literature and thus high criticism.

I hate when people (mostly women) spurn him for all his female characters being whores. Well if you took your time and read more you would see his whores are better developed and more human than most virtuous heroines and chaste ladies in other books. Meh...

And you hit the nail here - "Maybe some people are not able to handle this type of mirror."
People just don't like it when you show them ugly truths.

I loved his books. I had to go out and buy the others just to keep reading. I don't know why people don't like his writing other than it will make you think, reread, think, and smirk a little to yourself sometimes. People are self absorbed and most of his writing will make those who are see it in themselves.

Love it.

I've read the first of this series, and couldn't get into it. Better written than most contemporary fantasy, it still suffers from the tropes and cliches of that legacy.

I suppose, after having read other contemporary authors like Wolfe and Mieville, my expectations were just too high. While Bakker attempts to tackle esoteric and metaphysical human issues, he seems to fall short of firmly grasping an original analysis of these issues. At least, having fallen from that high expectation, he does not fail to present an interesting story regardless.

I think Scott Bakker is a fantastic writer. I'd say he's as lyrical as Mark Lawrence, and like Mark, Scott's books are definitely in the sub-genre of grim dark epic fantasies. In fact, I'd say they're as grim and dark as you can get and still be relevant. They're highly ambitious, weaving various strands of philosophy and determinism into a story unlike any I've read. His characters seem trite but Scott always manages to subvert them, making them more and less than what I expected.
That said, I struggle with reading his books. It's not because the writing itself is a challenge but because his world and characters are so full of pathos and darkness.