Rothfussians discussion

If anyone is interested in working on the wiki with me that'd be awesome.

I've been struggling through and made some corrections but it is rather daunting and any imput, especially from some of the more frequent boardies would be awesome.

Its fairly dead their, so I'm pretty sure if you are a good writer and dont like something thats already written you can just erase it. (I'm sorry but that is what I do, some of this crap is way ridiculous)

Things I'm trying to avoid are, going through way to much description of the novels. This is supposed to be a reference point, not a retelling of the story IMO. You can see the Kvothe page to get an idea of TOO much information. I've been running this by friends with an interest in the series, and they hate pages that are overly wordy. So...I'm getting rid of crap like that.

I'm also removing a lot of the speculations or at least revising them. I really think its only necessary to add the most popular beliefs and theories since really, people should discuss their theories elsewhere - like here. LOL.

Also - if you like DeviantArt has tons of great fan art, I try to link to some, but always remember to site the artist so they get their due.

I've set up a general format of writing a little blurb on the character, then the description, then their place in the story, then any speculation. If their are any other sections worth adding, I always add them before the speculation and leave it at the end. I'm trying to get this all uniform as possible.

Anyway - Its a lot of work but also great fun when you are waiting for some action on the boards or just plain bored period. My edits are under the username IvoryDoom.

If enough people are interested maybe we can divide up some of the most important pages.

EH Eh? Anyone interested?

I'll check it out. No promises how often I'll be there, but I will help.

Yeah, I'll help too. Got some free time on my hands.

How much speculation do we want on there? For example, on the doors of stone there's info about the waystones... Should that be there? If so, should we elaborate about them being a portal to the fae...

p.s. I'm deleting all those chapter headings. We're not writing a web version of the book!

holy crap - i just looked at that. And I agree a bit ridiculous on that page. We really dont need a chapter by chapter IMO.

I try to keep speculation to stuff that is at least pretty popular from what I've read around here and elsewhere. I'd say mentioning that fans speculate they're a portal to the fae would be fairly relevent since I've seen it theorized to pretty good extent.


I would say something I'd delete is like on the Master Ash page, they have in the speculation about how Count Threpe might be Denna's patron. That's pretty much super random - so I intend to remove it.

with speculation, keep it light and accessible, like if you have to make more than 3points to say or back something up, don8 bother.

doors of stone -> waystones -> Fae portals

that isn't much of a stretch, through all the information we have about the stones, its a simple conclusion to come to.

avoid things like Bradon is Cinder is Master Ash is patron.

or, unless its too much trouble, make a gauge for the speculation. when something comes up we can easily say "this is blah level speculation, meaning its more than likely not true, but fun to entertain" or "this is blah level speculation, meaning even though no one has outright stated it as true, X number of mentions about blah have pretty much implied it to be so."

It's going to be a little from my point of view, the speculation side of things. For example, I'm not going to put that Lorren might be an Amyr or Denna is the female Chandrian.


*cringe*

eh...I left the Lorren might be an amyr theory on the Lorren page.

I dont personally agree with the theory but it was already on there and it is a major theory that people have.

I've read it at least a dozen times from different people on this board alone.

Though I agree, I wouldnt have added it if it wasnt already their. I honestly try not to add any speculation and primarily edit what is already their. I dont particularly think that people's speculation should apply to the wiki - but others appear to disagree.

Master Ash's page is a prime example. I'd delete that whole bitch if it wouldnt piss someone off.

Haha. Oops, put my foot in it. But speculation is speculation for a reason! It might turn out that Lorren is the king-daddy of the Amyr, we'd feel bad for keeping it off the speculation page then ;)

I've started working around the 'name of the wind' page. God, I didn't realise what a herculean task this is going to be! I wish anyone with a computer and an idea didn't comment until there's a structure, now it's cleaning time!

nah, If it were up to me, honestly, I'd take off all the speculation.

A really nice wiki is the one for A song of Ice and Fire and they dont have stuff like that on their pages. They have actual "theory" pages with very minimal background. I think thats a better format, but...like you said. It's already pretty daunting not to mention how many fairly important pages are really weird or completely off base...you know...priorities and shit.

LOL

You should use this example as mistreatment of the editing process.

Someone has written:
'In the story, Kvothe becomes a Re'lar after teaching the beginning Sympathy class for Master Hemme , giving him a "Hot Foot" in the process. He is brought up on charges of malfeasance for this, a charge for which the punishment is expulsion, but he is instead sentenced to three lashes and sponsored to Re'lar by Master Elodin'

SO MUCH NO.

uh...yah...thats not good.

I think we all know that he was sponsered to E'lir for that and I'm pretty sure it was actually by Master Kilvin... *shudder*

What page is that from? Please tell me you took that off? LOL!

Apparently, I'm about to have a Master Lorren page war. Ugh. I really hope not. Sucks since I actually spent a lot of time on that page, now someone wants to add some obscure theory about Lorren's Giller being a ciridae. (WTF...Seriously...Does anyone with two thoughts in their head even think that?)

Amber wrote: "uh...yah...thats not good.

I think we all know that he was sponsered to E'lir for that and I'm pretty sure it was actually by Master Kilvin... *shudder*

What page is that from? Please tell me y..."

Actually a number of people think Viari (and possibly the rest of the Archive Gillers that do Acquisition work) might be Amyr. Don't worry about Master Lorren, I'll try to edit it and I think we can come to a compromise about what goes in there.

Haha, never fear, I quickly edited it.

I didn't really get that feeling from Viari, are his tattoos even described? I also don't think he was Eduma, I just think he has traveled and met a lot of different cultures.

How do you know you're about to have a page war?

I wrote to the admin to chaange the organisation of that page. So the contents at the top will be different. Can we post links on here? http://kkc.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:H...

If not, my suggestion is on Huffdoggs page under 'Contents'.

Yah, I seconded that Chris. Thought it was a good idea.


Eric was that you editing that page? LOL. I could come to a compromise on it as I expressed in the talk page. It just wasnt a theory I'd ever read which I do follow these theories...obviously LOL. Plus, the fact we arent completely sure what Ciridae tattoos consist of, as well as not knowing what the tattoos of Viari consist of.

Its like saying. Hey, I seen a guy with tattoos. Ciridae have tattoos. So he must be one.


Thats not really a very well supported theory IMO. But if their is some discussion on it somewhere I'd love to read it and see the back up.

Though it might be more relevant to add to the Viari page vs adding to the Lorren page.

WHERE WAS THIS CIRIDAE YOU SPEAK OF???!...oh...I see...

I needed that. It's been a frustrating day. :P

Amber wrote: "Yah, I seconded that Chris. Thought it was a good idea.


Eric was that you editing that page? LOL. I could come to a compromise on it as I expressed in the talk page. It just wasnt a theory I'..."

No, it wasn't me editing the page. Cirdae is silly, Amyr might be possible.

Actually, looking it over. Viari doesnt have Tattos he has visible scarring. Which I dont really consider a point at the Ciridae but I did find on the Tor reread where they personally did. However, with no subsequent back up as to why. *grr. Frustration!*

Still think its probably more pertinent to the Viari page, if worth mentioning at all. What do you all think? I mean, I would like the wiki to appeal to everyone here at the very least so I'd love some input.


*EDIT

Whatever we decide to do, we at least need to remove that they are tattoos, because they arent.

Yeah, let's remove that.

There's something there to speculate about at least, pretty odd to have extensive scarring but maybe it's referring to his dangerous life.

Thats very true.

Kote has extensive scarring as well and I feel relatively sure he's not a ciridae or amyr.

Though that might be a whole new level of speculation for his character LOL.

I actually did remove it and put a note in the talk page to discuss it if the person so desires. Hopefully they'll come back and talk about it not just undo me again.

Oh snap! I might start a speculation page that Kvothe has a split personality and he's secretly a Ciridae. He's met the Chandrian twice, he knows the name of the wind...

I started joking but now I'm worried someone will take me seriously.

How many admins are on the page? Two that I know of.

thats all I know of too. I think Huffdog is the only one thats really active though.

And sadly, that wouldnt even be the worst speculation on this wiki LOL

Chris wrote: "Oh snap! I might start a speculation page that Kvothe has a split personality and he's secretly a Ciridae. He's met the Chandrian twice, he knows the name of the wind...

I started joking but now I..."

It kind of comes down to the question of if you're an Amyr because you were annointed or had a ceremony, or because you embrace their ideals?

great work on the wiki, so far! I've read through a few entries and they really hold up.

Amber wrote: "Actually, looking it over. Viari doesnt have Tattos he has visible scarring. Which I dont really consider a point at the Ciridae but I did find on the Tor reread where they personally did. Howev..."

Um, hi. I think I have maybe one other post here, so I don't wanna come off poorly. I appreciate your effort to civilize the Wiki.

One of the reasons A Wiki of Ice and Fire looks so good is because it's a private construction moderated by the folks who own Westeros. The Wikia is, like, one of three public... messes.

It's also the child of three major fan communities- goodreads, tor, and westeros- and assorted individual fans. That probably accounts for the perceived disparity in popularity of various speculations. Well, that and the fact that it's usually one contributor wading in with a metaphorical hammer and sickle and rebuilding from the ground up... over and over again.

Those folks, and you, are heroes. Thanks for your time.


Regarding Viari, the bit where his hands are described tends to evoke the Ciridae tattoos in a significant minority of readers.

I shook it without thinking. His hand was solid as a rock, and his dark Cealdish complexion was tanned even darker than usual, highlighting a few pale scars that ran over his knuckles and up his arms.

Compare that to Kvothe's state when Auri calls him her Ciridae:

I had dried blood running down the back of my hands from when I’d been trying to stanch my wounds. It looked like the old tattoos the Amyr had used to mark their highest ranking members.

And to the Ciridae from Kvothe's Scheherazade story:

When he made this motion, the old beggar saw the backs of the Amyr’s hands, and for a second he thought the Amyr had cut himself, and that blood was running between his fingers and down his arms.

The Cealds are the black folks of the Four Corners, and Viari at that moment is tanned as dark as can be. The reading suggests the tattoos show up poorly against that background or that the scars evincing removal. Yes, it's a on the weak side.

However, the description of those pale scars over his knuckles and up his arms does bear an eerie resemblance to blood... running between his fingers and down his arms. The precision of the descriptions stands out. Why there, in exactly the same place?

Doesn't necessarily belong on the Lorren page, though. Nor does it support Lorren as an Amyr even if true.


If you're taking suggestions:

Remove the image from the Kilvin page and, if possible, find something with a more appropriate skin tone. A lot of the folks on Tor and Westeros were aghast to learn he wasn't white, though, so I wonder if the deviantart community's in the same position.

You should leave the Master Ash speculation unless you can verify nonsense. He's only interesting in terms of speculation at this point, isn't he?

EDIT: I can see your frustration, I think, with the Ash page.

I had no idea where to put this and didn't want to start a new thread. But does anyone think the 'telling you three times' is significant?

It comes up quite a lot. Bast says it both alone and with Kvothe "I hear you three times". And Sim says it...
Is it just a colloquialism do you think?

@thistle - thanks for your input. Feel free to say anything to me. I have a horrible penchant for honesty...so cant really be mad when someone else does the same LOL.
Yah, I definitely did my research on Viari. But thank you for posting the quotes. I'm not saying I cant see the leaps that people go to to eventually make this association, I'm just saying that its so many leaps its really pointless speculation. I mean, the strongest point even you have to make is that in all these descriptions the author described a characters hands....

This however I completely disagree with. Its a matter of how you wish to take it.

The reading suggests the tattoos show up poorly against that background or that the scars evincing removal.

It literally says, he has a few pale scars, thats it, that doesnt suggest anything about tattoos. Its a bit outrageous that people put so much into that, IMO. It says Kote has scars covering his arms during NOTW when he is pressing the cider. No one says shit about that. So seems really dumb to be so focused on the VERY FEW scars that happen to be on a minor characters hands....
Not to mention, its not all that odd that descriptions given by Kote/Kvothe often focus on the hands of characters, He's a character very concious and protective of his hands through out the entire series.

Ultimately I removed it because it's simply a bad theory though. And here is why.

Lorren MIGHT be an amyr because his giller MIGHT be ciridae because the ciridae MIGHT have switched from tattoos to scarification or his giller MIGHT have had his tattoos removed thus leaving scars.

Way to many maybe's with zero support. That's not worth having on the wiki. Its really more appropriate for discussion some place like...HERE!

I'll definitely try and work on Kilvin's page relatively soon. I dont particularly care for that picture, no matter what race it's drawn in LOL. Plus, I like finding cool pictures to add. :) I'm hoping to make my way through a few of the Masters and hopefully Denna's this weekend.
As far as Master Ash, I gave it a sweep over and made some corrections, but eh. When I said I wanted to delete it someone objected so....Ya know...I dont want to be a TOTAL dick. It looks a lot better than it did.

I would love to get my own site going with a less editable wiki, but I'd also hate to compete with this one....so I dont know. If anyone thinks that is a good idea let me know. I actually probably could work it out pretty easy.


@Chris - I think its kind of a colloquialism, but when Kvothe brings Auri three gifts she also thinks that makes him a proper gentlemen...so maybe it has a little more to it than that.

Also I know doing something three times in fantasy literature is pretty common, it may have just been a part of the satire aspect Pat tries to add to his writing. I'd say its up to you, its not like you make the wiki any worse really...LOL

I guess it's a pretty common concept in our world too. '3 is the magic number', the holy trinity... etc. Kvothe says 'the third time pays for all' or something along those lines several times which seems to be him referring to a specific saying of the 4C.

That's a brilliant idea Amber. I was actually looking at setting up a website the other day as start-up cost can be cheap (£5) and it's an exciting thing to have. I wonder at the popularity, the wikia pages are quite common, I personally google 'a certain manga wikia' most of the time. But there's no reason why they couldn't coexist.

Three and seven are both significant/lucky numbers in the four corners universe as well as our own. Third silence, telling three times, three gifts, etc.

I think there's a lot of supporting evidence for Lorren being Amyr, or is at least serving somebody helping to prune the archives of historical accounts of them. I'm obviously pretty convinced, but understand that others aren't.

Oh, I'm not against Lorren being an amyr, I find plenty of support for that through out the series.

I'm only against this whole Viari/Ciridae theory since it literally has no leg to stand on.




Outside of that - Thistle, you should go check out the picture I put on Kilvin's page and give me your opinion. I seriously could not find any good pictures that could relate with a dark skinned character, but I think the one I chose is at least ambiguous. Lemme know, or just remove it if you dont think its a good one! I'll keep looking if it dissapears. I appreciate your opinion!

Amber is there anyway to just commandeer that wiki, and link it here. (Pardon my ignorance, I'm an old school geek, not a techno. More of a tehcno-moron LOL) Didn't PR already give his blessing to our little group here, and the work is half done. If not, I would definitely be down for a new site where all information is together and accurate. Please keep me posted.

honestly, I could link it here and that would work I'm sure. Pretty much no one is editing on there but people from here anyhow.

I'll help!

I looked around for pictures, too, and it looks like that dwarf is gonna haveta do. As I can't do any editing, I'll trust the folks willing to. On the other hand, do I make suggestions here or there? I just did it there.

Yeah, that was rough. Looking for appropriate pictures is half the battle on this wiki. I seriously spent over and hour looking for an acceptable picture for Wilem...go look at what I found. I couldnt find shit better and welcome everyone to try. (Please)

Daniel - I actually had to revert your edit because you put some incorrect info in, make sure you have your book when your editing buddy and always double check - I think I clarified more in ther Talk Section of that page! But I appreciate your help. I've been trying to mark some article stubs, so thats probably the best section to start looking for stuff that needs serious editing.

Sorry if something was wrong, but I just checked my book:

International version, page 82.
Auri finds goes into Kvothe's room while he's reliving his childhood memories..

"I began to cry quietly, and she gently uncurled the tight knot of me until my head lay in her lap''

''It's okay'', Auri said softly. ''I'm here. You're safe''.

I don't see what my mistake was, could you point it out so I correct it.
And my apologies again, I'll be more careful next time.

-- EDIT --
I see now where I was wrong, Kvothe doesn't find Auri, Auri finds him. I'll correct it.

Lol, its fine, I'm always checking that stuff anyway. Since I'm sorta anal. (Feel free to critisize me LOL)

You just switched it around and said Kvothe found Auri when Auri finds Kvothe. Which I thought was an important distinction. (maybe invalidly)

Feel free to re-edit! I do appreciate your ideas!

Hey people who care about the wiki.

I'll be working on a server this weekend so I can do some site hosting from my house. I was thinking of putting a fansite together something like Westeros.org but obviously for KKC.

It'd also feature a much less editable wiki.

Obviously a long term goal here, but when I do get the basics done, I'm going to need some help working on it. So if you're interested message me so I'll know you are and when I need the help I can reply and give you the info to access the server. Hopefully that will be within the month. I just dont see the sense in putting all my time into Wikia when I can host something more manageable and most probably nicer.

I'm definitely up for that. Free time is plentiful currently so I'm in. Let me know what you require :)

Cool.

I think I'll have the server running by tonight. The old man put one together last night for me, but it didnt have enough ram to support the data transfer. So, we're going to put together another one tonight that's a lot better, I had just hoped we could use the shitty one since...well...its shittier and the one I'm changing now was a workable/decent desktop.

Goodbye bedroom Netflix. LOL.

Anyway, once I get it working and have the template up I'll let you know and give you access instructions.

Count me in!!!

cool same to you then, I'll message you when I get everything set up.

Alright, well I got the server going and I'm working on setting up a format now. I think I can publish to the web this week or next.

After that I'll have to set you guys up as users so you can access and edit. I decided to use the Wordpress wiki over Mediawiki (what westeros.org uses) Mostly because it looks nicer and I can more easily customize it without having to do a bunch of tedious codeing.

Plus it's visual editor was way nicer. Something anyone could probably use. At least that was my opinion. Only thing I'd fault it for is I don't particularly care for the way we have to set up the catagories, but eh. I'm not willing to sit around for a year writing my own software...so...I'll just shut my mouth on that. It's good enough and completely navigatable.

So, woot to that. Sorta slacked on the blog this weekend since I was trying to get this shit all set up, but now I'm kinda stoked to get it going.

I was thinking maybe we could divide up some pages. I intend to move the work I've already done on wikia over to my site. But other than that, if you want any specific page...call it now.

I've got no preference. Just throw any you need doing my way :)

Presumably this entails an abandonment of the public wikia, right? I might be able to help or at least provide some copy editing and question answering.

I noticed your post on Pat's blog and while I can't speak for the man's intentions, I can say that he first promised an incoming redesign or the website back in 2007. So I wouldn't count on that to do the job of a wiki.

I don't intend to work on wikia content anymore personally. Since I haven't been too impressed with how it's run.

My hopes is to have this site be something more accurate as well as providing a better resource for content in regards to the books, though still run by fans.

Now that I know it was such a long time back he started talking about the revamp I feel much more confident in going forward with the idea. I intend to make it clear its fan generated, but I certainly would not want to detract from his personal website.

I could put it on the web right now for access actually, but I need to get a domain set up so people dont have to know my IP to login. I've put a couple of page on that show the format I think is best, though that is totally up for discussion -

I could probably link a forum in if you guys would rather talk about such things over there as well, whatever is easiest really.

Okay, I just need a domain.

Added a ton of blank pages last night that just have the titles, so people can click and go work on them. Have the catagories pretty worked out. I intend to keep those minimal, the less clicks to get to the page you want the better.

I think I'm ready to go live now. Woo hoo! As soon as I do I'll post the link so people can start working and also give me feedback. I might have to set you up if you want to do work on the site since I have the security on high right now.

Only thing holding me back is a domain really, I do need to design a main page as well though, but thats of less importance really. It will just have some links from fans presumedly. I'll have my blog on that page, my cousin's you tube channel will probably be linked in as well, if they ever get the podcast going on KKC I'll probably link that in. If anyone on here runs a site I'd be happy to include them.

Okay, I finally got the domain set up.

If you want to participate in adding content please message me or post in this thread what you'd like your username to be and the email address you'd like to use. (I think thats all I need to set up your account generic style which can be edited by you later)

If you want to take a peak at what I have so far put together you can see the wiki direct at

scrivenerious.com/kkc

I bought the domain so I could host and link up some of my other projects to though so if you go to just

scrivenerious.com

you'll see links to the wiki, my blog, and a few other things.

Any opinions are also welcome. If you guys would rather forum over there I can add one of those as well.

I'd love to help! I'm from México, and Spanish is my first language, so my english writing is not excellent, but tell me anything you need me to do and I'll do it!