Rothfussians discussion

Should, Abenthy, be held in suspicion?

He comes to Kvothe and leaves right before the Chandrian kills Kvothe's family.

He brought magic and took knowledge of Arliden's song.

Amyr? God? Angel? Singer? Chandrian?

Discuss!

Heavens, I never thought of that!

hey..what a great point..never thought of it that way..hmm..though kvothe

aargh..phone froze sorry..as I was saying kvothe wouldn't have his knowledge or been to the university without meeting Abenathy

Colin wrote: "aargh..phone froze sorry..as I was saying kvothe wouldn't have his knowledge or been to the university without meeting Abenathy"

He also warns Kvothe, which makes me think he may be on the opposite end of the Chandrian.

this character NEEDS to appear in book3. he has been too formative to only appear once and be forgotten to time

Ions wrote: "this character NEEDS to appear in book3. he has been too formative to only appear once and be forgotten to time"

agreed!

He'll be back. Kvothe has alluded that he runs into Abenthy again.

I dont have a lot of opinions on Abenthy, but I did enjoy his character immensely. So cheers to seeing him again.

I hope we do.

Gavin wrote: "Ions wrote: "this character NEEDS to appear in book3. he has been too formative to only appear once and be forgotten to time"

agreed!"

This. I don't think he's super important, apart from what we already know.

I started thinking there was more to Ben on my last reread. Here are some hunches.

A) I think there is a possibility he could be an agent of the Chandrian, but not likely. I just don't see him as evil.

B)I've thought about him being part of the Amyr, and maybe he was checking up on Natalia Lackless. Again, very unlikely due to the way he left. The whole widow thing would have to be a sham, and I have a hard time believing a town could fool a traveling troupe for a week.

C)The typical traveling arcanist? I don't buy that either. The only other traveling Arcanists that are mentioned are chasing the wind(which is not a common practice in this time, plus Ben already woke his sleeping mind), or guillers for one of the masters.
Some Ramblings....
I thought the way he left was a little sketchy, like someone getting him out of the way. To me, Ben seems to be more powerful than the average arcanist. But none of the Masters even indicate that they knew him. I find that very odd. We know he knows the name of the wind, he could know others. He seems to have a lot of knowledge of the world, and if kids are making up dirty limericks about Natalia, I would think it a strong possibility that Ben has heard the rumors. He had to of put it together.
I guess the only thing I do know about Ben is that shit doesn't add up. I'd like to see what Professor Thistlepong has to say. Seriously, that guy should teach a class. Anyway maybe this crap will help spark something for someone else or maybe make you dumber for having read it. Sorry.

I'm just curious as to why Kvothe didn't even ask Mannet about him?

maybe I'm just naive, but I seriously can't entertain the idea that Ben was shady.

Brandon: Do we know what an average arcanist is capable of? He would have had to of been at the University for several years, enough time to take an advanced sympathy class and several chemistry classes :P

I'm sort of with Chris on this one. We're not even totally sure what full arcanists regularly can do.

I mean, the only one I remember specifically meeting that wasnt a Master or Ben was Caudicus and we dont really get any concept of what he can actually DO.

Though I have to agree, it does seem rather odd that in all this time we havent seen even ONE other travelling arcanist. Kinda weird.

Kvothe's father seemed to understand the benefit of having an arcanist traveling with the troop, and knew what to look for (the giller).
to me it seemed that, even if its not common, its not unusual for arcanists to take to the road and look for work. even though we haven't seen any other traveling ones besides Ben, we only spent a few chapters on the road with Kvothe's troop.

How did Chronicler gain his giller I wonder... Completely sidetracked this topic, but I'm just curious as to what he must have specialised in to 'graduate'. Possibly a scriv.

Chronicler doesnt have a giller from what I remember.

He has a pendant of Tehlu's Iron Wheel. Pat/Badali Jewlery actually just released the replica of it.

Though I can see why you were confused. I thought it was a giller as well until this came up over in The Chronicler thread. (I believe)

It seems though that Chronicler is not a full arcanist. Probably at least Re'lar though.

And Ions I think you make a fair point. We havent spent an exponential amount of time on the road so...just because we havent seen that many doesnt mean they arent out there.

Brandon wrote: "I started thinking there was more to Ben on my last reread. Here are some hunches..."

I’m not sure how to take that.

A) (and B) I’m not a huge fan of looking for Amyr or the Seven, less still their agents. In this case, however, Ben doesn’t have any strong markers for either. There’s no shared symbolism or philosophy to the extent we can determine that.

C) I think you conflated students with arcanists with regard to chasing the wind. It’s not crucial to what you’re saying, though. We see arcanists in four capacities: Masters, gillers, court appointees, and, well, Ben. We also get the hint that it’s neither a respectable career, via the reaction of Sim’s father, or a guarantee of employment. There can only be so many appointments. Of those few would be as comfortable as working for Alveron and all of them would probably be until death or disfavor. Come to think of it, most of them would probably be librarians, politicians, advisors, accountants, doctors... you get the idea.

Here, I wanna skip ahead to Chris’s question. I’ll come back to Hallowfell and the oddities about Abenthy.

We know the University has seventy-five dropouts every year. Ben identifies some of them: chill charmers, dowsers, fortune tellers, toad eaters. The dueling section identifies what they’re capable of. And these are the people who washed out. Devi got expelled after two years and yet she’s among the best sympathists, on par with Kilvin and Elxa Dal.

I’d guess the average arcanist can pull off a three part binding, has shown some potential for naming though perhaps not mastered one, and has mastered one of the nine subjects after six to ten years of study. An archivist, for example, might not be a dangerous wizard. A namer, sympathist, artificer, or alchemist, is.

Having command and subtle control over a name probably places Ben above average. Dal says most of the masters know a name or two. I suppose this could go either way, but it suggests that some don’t. He’s an alchemist with the patience and skill to teach sympathy, sygaldry, and alchemy. And he’s pretty talented in chemistry and history.

Just because he’s exceptional doesn’t mean he’s famous or anything. The masters accept Kvothe based on the implication of his recommendation. They know him and respect him. The don’t mention Caudicus either, and he’s got one of the most significant appointments in the Four Corners.

Is Ben suspicious?

Some folks compare the prominence of Alpha and Beta with Felurian’s “glamoured as a pack mule laden.” Is he travelling with disguised Faen? We’re meant to at least consider it, lead to water as it were.

And his presence is overwhelmingly coincidental. In all likelihood it’s merely necessary. But as the only roaming full arcanist, he sticks out.

Then there’s his parting of ways with Greyfallow’s Men at Hallowfell. Kvothe's metacommentary raises a flag:

As you can see, I don’t think anyone could have built a better snare for Ben if they had tried.

He literally leaves right after the first public performance of the song. And some time thereafter the troupe is massacred.

Still, all of that’s perfectly explicable. He travels because he can and maybe because he has to. He’s got a problem with authority, even at his age. He basically lives with those mules. It’d be surprising if he didn’t anthropomorphize and pamper them. Coincidences make a story. This one merely alters Kvothe’s eventual fame from trouper to magician. It’s a bit eccentric to teach a ten year old, and a little irresponsible. He realizes that eventually.

Amber wrote: "I mean, the only one I remember specifically meeting that wasnt a Master or Ben was Caudicus ..."

We get a few gillers, too.
Alder Whin (Elodin)
Cammar (Kilvin)
Viari (Lorren)
Distrel (Lorren)
Anisat (Mandrag)

The descriptions of Chronicler's wheel are, golly, sloppy in The Name of the Wind: ring, disc, wheel. Plenty of folks believed it was a guilder right up until there was a replica.

Nicely written Thistlepong. I agree. :)

Except I'm left wondering..can you give me a citation for:

We know the University has seventy-five dropouts every year

Since I so did not know that and I'm the sort who likes to look for themself. :)


Also - I wasnt thinking Gillers for some reason...I guess they are Full Arcanists though. I always just imagine them like the teachers aid or something though, outside of Viari. Even so, we get very little information about any of them and what kind of ability they possess. I think the one best known is probably Cammar.

A hundred students left the Arcanum every year, perhaps a quarter of them with their guilders. That meant that every year there were a hundred more people in the world that had been trained in the use of sympathy. (NW374)

*The estimates for ability are cobbled together from bits here and there. Based on Kvothe's first time on the horns and the conversation wherein Denna fist asks about writing magic, it looks like multiple bindings are kind of a big deal. I din't get the feeling Sim or Wil ever expected to do five, though they both intend to graduate.

Thank you for the citation, I like to try and keep all this stuff straight for when I work on the wiki...and honestly, just for my own sick obsession...I love going back to peices I dont have a good memory of.


And, I agree about your assumptions, they are well based and it does seem Kvothe is more advanced, otherwise he probably wouldnt be put against people in such extreme standards during the dueling.

is it possible that Ben was killed by the 7? maybe they took him out shortly before or after the troop.


also, why wasn't there a systematic picking off of children after skarpy's tavern story?
maybe that last part belongs in another thread

I think it's possible. I mean, it never addresses what happens to him after he hooks up with that Lady who owns a Brewery or Ale House or whatever.

Though for your second question, I'm not entirely with the idea that saying their names brings them to you. I mean, Elodin makes it explicitely clear that calling names are not going to have that sort of power.

Maybe True Names but certainly not all the names used by The Chandrian can work that way.


Plus if you follow certain theories there are other reason the Chandrian could have wanted to kill Kvothe's troupe. (Like the fact they're travelling around with the True Lackless Heir, but that IS speculative, well supported, but still speculative)

I hope we see Ben again. I'm sure we're going back to Hallowfell because

1. It's on the map! Therefore, I think it has more importance than simply the place Ben left the troupe.

2. With the name Hallowfell, how can it not be important?

Hallow = to make holy or set apart for holy use; to respect greatly, venerate

Fell =
adj. - fierce, cruel, terrible, malevolent, sinister
noun - high barren field or moor; skin, hide, pelt
verb - to cut, knock down; to kill; to sew a seam by folding one raw edge under the other and sewing flat on the wrong side