Catch-22 discussion

The podcaster to my favorite wine appreciation show would always end with this adage: Drink what you like; like what you drink. All the rest is commentary.

As long as you are not a student, an English professor or a professional commentator/reviewer, my advise to you is, "Read what you like; like what you read. All the rest is commentary."

Whenever I've approached a classic / iconic book I want to read but have problems getting through (for whatever reason), I turn to the scholarship. There are many scholars / smart people who love the book / author and are good at explaining WHY they feel this way. They can teach you how to approach reading the book, making it more enjoyable or interesting.

Now, there are classics I can't stand. I truly appreciate why Faulkner is a great writer. However, I really don't enjoy reading him. Part of the reason is that I grew up in a highly dysfunctional home--both my parents were/are severely personality disordered. My brother has Narcissistic Personality Disorder and is a functioning sociopath. So, Faulkner's writings can hit way too close to home. I can't stand Don Quixote either, because I really can't stand reading about a main character who is loosing touch with reality. I don't see what others see in him. Again, that's probably because I knew someone who behaved similar to him.

Give Catch-22 a fair shake. However, if things are not getting better, follow the advise, "Read what you like; like what you read. All the rest is commentary." Just because many people really like Catch-22 doesn't mean you have to like it. Just because many people think Catch-22 is a great novel, doesn't mean that you have to think that way. If it still isn't your cup of tea, send it back to the library or trade it away at your local used book store.

Omoo

I would have to say no. I understand where the author is coming from and the point he's trying to make, but there's no reason for a redundant argument to consume so many pages. Slaughterhouse Five raises similar question in a more interesting, swift, and reflective matter, without making the reader utterly hate themselves for reading the book.

Linda wrote: "Omoo"

Omoo ?

Mary Lynn wrote: "I would have to say no. I understand where the author is coming from and the point he's trying to make, but there's no reason for a redundant argument to consume so many pages. Slaughterhouse Five ..."

One of my friends who was in the Service (US Army) said that he felt the redundancy in this book really did give an accurate impression of Army life.... hurry up and wait being the norm. I think he's right.

I agree with you about Slaughterhouse Five. However, my opinions are biased, and that's because I knew Bernie Vonnegut. I began reading Kurt Vonnegut novels, because he always included an essay at the end about himself. I liked reading those essays, because he was writing about people and places I knew. And so it goes...

I have read it twice, and it takes some getting used to. For what it's worth push on

It's not worth somebodies time to push on if they didn't like how it was starting out. This post is 4 years old. Since this was only in regarded to the person who opened up the discussion isn't going to start reading this book again.

Catch-22 is a book that either you love it or you hate it.

The reason to read it (even if you don't like it): it's an iconic book. Many veterans really love it. They tell me that it is one of the best books to hand to a civilian so that that person understands what real life Army life is like--especially when you're deployed overseas. Also, the book does get better. The last 1/3 is MUCH better than the first 2/3.

IMHO, is this book a classic? NO. It is an iconic book, but not a great book. , but Heller's shoddy, melodramatic and excessively farcical book desperately needs an editor. A good editor would tell him that it needed to be cut down by about 1/4--and those cuts needed to come in the first 2/3 of the book. This would have been a great book had it been properly edited.

But it is so damn long. The problem you get a reader doesn't enjoy this genre to pick up if this isn't what there intrested. There are very few chapters that make you want to pick it up again after you stopped reading itsn't all that interesting. All it is one person attempt to get out of the Army.
The subject matter goes from humor to something bad in a hurry. I also made a review that this had good writing but the whole needs a whole new edit and far fewer characters to bring it to younger generation.
The only reason it got popular is because of a CBS anchor man who mention Yessarin lives on TV. Like said to many other the person how created this stopped reading right after she made this post and to the author she loves reading the most.

Scott wrote: "But it is so damn long. The problem you get a reader doesn't enjoy this genre to pick up if this isn't what there intrested. There are very few chapters that make you want to pick it up again after..."

Sorry to repeat a comment, but try listening to it as an audio book - that's how I got through it!

Otherwise just let it go - if it's not for you, or someone else, then that's actually *fine*. We all go through life in this world missing *most* of what's going on, but can have a perfectly rich life on the little scraps we end up with! :)

Scott wrote: "But it is so damn long. The problem you get a reader doesn't enjoy this genre to pick up if this isn't what there intrested. There are very few chapters that make you want to pick it up again after..."

Please ? I think your last paragraph needs some editing , didnt understand a thing ! All this seems like nonsense ! If you dont like the book then forget it and move on . It gave me a chuckle , a giggle and made me think ! I loved this book ! Maybe the Heller is an aquired taste , but anyone who says this isnt an important book in American fiction must have their head to far up latest young adult ,vampire , magic Harry P. , slush fest that passes for good writing and story telling these days that they forgot what real writing is like . A novel doesnt have to be easy to read but if it has something to say then I feel it is worth the effort !

A.R. wrote: "I believe that novels like Catch-22 and All Quiet on the Western Front (a very different story) are meant to be appreciated, not enjoyed. Being a veteran of Uncle Quixote's Army, I immediately unde..."

Thank you for the wisdom, I appreciate this book and hold it in a similarly high esteem to the works of Vonnegut.

While I ultimately did not serve in the ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, I contemplated enlistment as well as OCS going through college and afterwards. I find the tone of Catch 22, how it makes me feel uncomfortable, trapped, uneasy, doomed. Working with veterans, I have found this tone helpful relating to my peers who did serve.

The power of this book is the sense of overwhelming gloom and hilarity it instills in the reader, it's disorienting, frustrating, gut-churning. Feelings that veterans I know are well acquainted with and understand.

I hope my experience gives perspective to someone reading, or forcing themselves to read this book, while they may still find it off-putting, this is purposeful and the writing style gives the reader a powerful experience.

Catch 22 is such a classic. Quite humorous and engrossing. Heller's style is ace. He's so inventive and sharp in this book. I plan to re-read. Should be a blast!

I wish people would read my comment from years ago. This thread is no longer valid and has been out of date for 5 years now. The book Catch-22 is not meant as good book for Rebbecca. Anyone that continues to post here is waisting time and energy. Just because this book is funny at times and it's sole purpose is to be cynical people don't mention that right after ever laugh there is a tragedy. Also this book has one plot that is repeated over and over and that is Yossarian desperately trying to get out of the military. For Rebecca this book is not in her genre, & asking somebody read a 400 plus page that is not a single page turner with over abundant number of characters in a single book doesn't work. Rebecca picked it up thinking it would be a great read for her, because this doesn't have today's editing it not worth her time to pick it up. This should be obvious that poor Rebbeca is never going to pick this book up again and her that she were to ever read these comments it will be useless. Asking somebody to read a book that takes a month to read is not going to do it especially after having to put it down and never picked up again. Again Catch-22 is not in the genre of Rebbecca's reading list. This book is meant for a small minority readers those that severed in a military and readers of literature that will read a book to complete it to the end.
People should admit just because a book becomes a classic literature book over time it doesn't necessarily mean a classic book is a literature read for the masses. For some readers modern day authors is why they want read a book in the first place because they want to spend hours reading a story that wants the author
has engaded the reader so much the reader has to turn the page. Nobody wants to waist time reading a book that doesn't it make anyone care about the main characters or becomes so bored with the story because the plots are repeated over and over again.

For a person to enjoy a book, two things have to come into play. One, the quality of the work and, two, the state of mind of the individual. Let me give you an example of what I mean using an extreme case. Crime and Punishment is a great book, but you would not give it to a ten-year-old. In other words, the mindset of the reader -- emotionally, intellectually and educationally -- is extremely important. When I picked up Magister Ludi while in my early twenties, I was bored with it, but when I did so again in my forties, I found it to be absolutely the most fascinating book that I had ever read. Don't force yourself to read it. You are not in school. The day might come that it will be right for you. There is way too much good reading to waste your precious time on one that you do not find entertaining or inspiring.

Gonzalo wrote: "For a person to enjoy a book, two things have to come into play. One, the quality of the work and, two, the state of mind of the individual. Let me give you an example of what I mean using an extre..."

Great comment - totally agree. I found The Great Gatsby rather dull in high school but really enjoyed it midlife. I got through Catch-22 OK listening to it as an audio book, and I'm glad I did - there are a lot of truths about life in this world that made it worthwhile - but it did take a bit of determination to push through with it to the end.

Some books are just not for us. I started A Confederacy of Dunces and absolutely could not stand it so I put it down. I'm pretty sure it's not getting a second chance, much as I sympathized with the author in his misery.

You don't need to agonize over not getting into a book. Put it down and move onto something that does excite you.

And yes re Scott's comment - maybe it's about time to wrap up this thread and move on to new ground!

I liked the book, but if you don't right now, why should you force yourself to finish it? There are so many books that we can read and that might have something precious to tell us in this moment of our lives. So I never force myself to finish a book if I feel I cannot connect with it.

Muhammad wrote: "Catch 22 is such a classic. Quite humorous and engrossing. Heller's style is ace. He's so inventive and sharp in this book. I plan to re-read. Should be a blast!"

When you say you're going to re-read this book do you mean like a chapter here put the book down move on read another chapter there then let it sit for 6 months and so on until you finish reading it like December 2018 kind of read? The book is so monotonous if there ever was one! Like whoever reads Catch-22 without getting bored from it by day 3? I was everyday I spent reading it. With so many damn good books that sit on library shelves and that I have on my to read list, I rather give an author my time of day if they draw me in to the story so much I'm turning pages one after another.

I doubt Millennials when they get into their forties are ever going to be reading Joseph Heller. If books are still in book print then. I can't image anyone reading Catch-22 in ebook. With

Karen wrote: "Gonzalo wrote: "For a person to enjoy a book, two things have to come into play. One, the quality of the work and, two, the state of mind of the individual. Let me give you an example of what I mea..."

The one major thing about rereading those classics what is so cool a about a majority of them no matter how boring they are on a first read is that they are short. It makes rereading a book so much easier the shorter it is. Seriously when you have a boring book by page 30 who wants to really to read a 400+ page book and finish it only to say at the end of it I could have waisted this many hours having been able to read something else. You mentioned you listened to the tapes that had to be much easier because audio books are much shorter and condensed than a whole book. Catch-22 is a 453 page book and in today's world this book isn't edited like today's fiction. There is no asterisks or dividing lines that break up one story to the next that can throw the reader for a loop. The book has way to many characters you can't keep track off and one plot with Yossarian trying to get out of the military.
A lot threads that tell Rebecca to press on are because they served in the military.
For the life of me I don't see how any woman could have enjoyed reading this book to the end without being fully offended and appalled by it. For a guy I was. Reading the part with Yossarian beating the hell out of prostitute that cared for him was just stupid. Of course people that recommend the book don't mention how violent it is with most of it serving no real purpose. With the tapes they can take edit that out and the parts that is so repetitive. Your description of the tapes sound they could not undo boring, time consuming and way over drawn out subplots being so repetitive. I think I told Rebecca years ago not to bother finish reading it. It's not her genre no one should ever have read a book just to finish but I did it. I regret having waisted all hours and days with it when I could have read a far better book from one of a couple hundred non-
fiction to thriller, suspense, mystery, horror, and classic books that make up my to read list. Thanks for your comments on your reading and listening experiences.
Worst novel I ever read was The Stranger on the Train

Surely somebody's said this, but our experience of war in the U.S. is different now without universal conscription, when war was a common experience among people with nothing in common, when it was a prolongation of high school, when it was something everyone did, before war was a non-national police action and military service was a career choice. You'll never get it. And so it goes. If you're 70, this is a book that makes you hurt until you laugh....

Then again, per Wiki. Thus is what I'm talking about. Yosarian, Orr, Catch-22. Catch-22. Major Major Major, I couldn't read Anthony Powell without this book in mind, can't hear about FU's at the VA without thinking about The Soldier In White. People live it now, but it's defined in different terms. Imagine a continent populated by soldiers who didn't volunteer, if you can. Do you know Winston Smoith? It was different even then. I hear a soldier died in Afghanistan, I say, "And..." What? He didn't want to? She's better off than the ones who come home? Why is this newsworthy? It's hard to understand what it was like when all men went to war. Hopefully, it will stay that way. This quote isn't about Catch-22. It was just there. Like Snowden. And then he wasn't:

The book is based on S.L.A. Marshall's studies from World War II, which proposed that contrary to popular perception,[1] the majority of soldiers in war do not ever fire their weapons, because of an innate resistance to killing. Based on Marshall's studies the military instituted training measures to break down this resistance and successfully raised soldiers' firing rates to over 90 percent during the Vietnam War.[2]

Grossman points out that there are great psychological costs that weigh heavily on the combat soldier or police officer who kills, if they are not mentally prepared for what may happen; if their actions (killing) are not supported by their commanders and/or peers; and if they are unable to justify their actions (or if no one else justifies the actions for them).

NellVolare wrote: "Surely somebody's said this, but our experience of war in the U.S. is different now without universal conscription, when war was a common experience among people with nothing in common, when it was..."

Thank you, Nell - interesting commentary!

I agree with your initial comments to some degree. With that said, I am not seventy and I thought Catch-22 was hilarious. As someone that has never been in the military I saw many comparisons to war today. It wasn't the hookers, the tents or Europe, but the corruption and how goods were provisioned and sold. Perhaps age and/or military service isn't what makes the book entertaining, but the reader's aptitude for the way power structures are designed, an awareness of geopolitical capitalism and current events. Personally I think Catch-22 transcends time and will entertain the masses for decades to come.

Brian wrote: "I agree with your initial comments to some degree. With that said, I am not seventy and I thought Catch-22 was hilarious. As someone that has never been in the military I saw many comparisons to wa..."

Brian - Another good comment - much of what you say resonates with me as well.

Karen wrote: "Brian wrote: "I agree with your initial comments to some degree. With that said, I am not seventy and I thought Catch-22 was hilarious. As someone that has never been in the military I saw many com..."

Thanks, Karen. Halliburton kept running through my mind during most of the book. You can't expect everyone to get the content or even to enjoy it if they do get it. Some people are just built to read books without meaning or subtext. As much as I hate the writing in both the Hunger Games books and Divergent the message is solid.

I first picked up this book in 2007 and had multiple false starts with it. A year later, during summer 2008, I decided to give this iconic book a fair chance, and it has been my favorite novel since then. Each re-read brings a fresh perspective, a different viewpoint and relationship with the cast of dozens of defined and hilarious characters.

But this isn't about me, it's about you. My advice, if you can't stay invested in those first few chapters is to read perhaps the chapter called Major Major Major Major or the first Scheisskopf chapter, which are both pretty standalone and should give you an idea of how the quality of the book jumps. These are both within the first ten chapters of the book. Enjoy!

I cheated. I saw the movie first. The book is better.

Rebecca. It depends on how your mind works. If you like the absurd you should enjoy it. For me it's one of the most original books of the 20th century and very funny if you like dark humour and irony. But I'm a Brit and we like this stuff and Joseph Heller is an American!

If you aren’t into this book after two chapters then it isn’t for you. Too bad though as it is the best book ever written IMO.

60 page rule. If it doesn't work by then, it probably isn't worth it when there is so much other stuff you can enjoy. Regardless of how many people say 'it's their favourite' we are all different

I read this book and I liked it, but it wasn´t easy to read for me. Still I´m glad I read it because it really is a qualite literature :)

I found this book to be hilarious about a very serious subject. And it raises a great question of the blurred lines between sanity and insanity.