Infinite Jest – David Foster Wallace discussion

Thanks Jason! You're obviously not getting enough work at work, LOL... XD :P

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Jason wrote: "I agree. The endnotes really seem like they are meant to be part of the text. I wouldn't advise skipping them, either. "

"Endnotes are absolutely and unconditionally necessary. Dave intended that your reading be interrupted every time you had to flip back to the endnotes; it's the path the novel wants to take. Dave's got your back, but the experience of reading IJ includes the experience of being pissed about needing to flip back to those notes. DO NOT SKIP THE ENDNOTES"

Is this a technique of metafiction or is DFW doing something like the Brechtian alienation effect?
If it's indeed to keep things real then Shakespeare did it centuries ago! Bottom,during the performance of the tragedy of Pyramus and Thisbe in A Midsummer Night's Dream,assures the audience that the lion is not real & Thisbe is not really dead!
Talk about breaking the fourth wall!

Mala wrote:Is this a technique of metafiction or is DFW doing something like the Brechtian alienation effect? If it's indeed to keep things real then Shakespeare did it centuries ago! Bottom,during the performance of the tragedy of Pyramus .."

If this will be of any help Mala:

He explained that endnotes “allow . . . me to make the primary-text an easier read while at once 1) allowing a discursive, authorial intrusive style w/o Finneganizing the story, 2) mimic the information-flood and data-triage I expect’d be an even bigger part of US life 15 years hence. 3) have a lot more technical/medical verisimilitude 4) allow/make the reader go literally physically ‘back and forth’ in a way that perhaps cutely mimics some of the story’s thematic concerns . . . 5) feel emotionally like I’m satisfying your request for compression of text without sacrificing enormous amounts of stuff.” He also said, “I pray this is nothing like hypertext, but it seems to be interesting and the best way to get the exfoliating curve-line plot I wanted.”

Garima wrote: "If this will be of any help Mala:

He explained that endnotes “allow . . . .."

Where is the quote from?

He certainly got #2 correct and #4 is a reason to read the book and not use an ereader or audiobook.

Jim wrote: "Garima wrote: "If this will be of any help Mala:

He explained that endnotes “allow . . . .."

Where is the quote from?

He certainly got #2 correct and #4 is a reason to read the book and not use ..."

It's from The New Yorker article Jim. Here's the link

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/20...

Garima wrote: "Mala wrote:Is this a technique of metafiction or is DFW doing something like the Brechtian alienation effect? If it's indeed to keep things real then Shakespeare did it centuries ago! Bottom,during..."

Thanks Garima,If I'm not mistaken,I think I read that long back in Understanding David Foster Wallace by M.Boswell.
I was referring to the "Authorial intrusive style" up there,thought Nathan N.R. has some new ace up his sleeve- he usually has!

Jim wrote: "Garima wrote: "If this will be of any help Mala:

He explained that endnotes “allow . . . .."

Where is the quote from?

He certainly got #2 correct and #4 is a reason to read the book and not use ..."

Thank God I got the physical copy few days back,now flipping back to the endnotes is way more easy, also the goal post is very clear- the heft shows me how far I'm from reaching the target :( but ah,my hands & wrists- that's a different story!

Jim wrote: "He certainly got #2 correct and #4 is a reason to read the book and not use an ereader or audiobook. .."

Yes, that is hugely irritating, and ironic too, since the book is supposedly set in the future-- but it requires archaic technology to read...

Well, i'm simply just not physically geared towards lumping around huge physical tomes anymore. My paper books look good on my shelf, but unless they are Kindle size and weight, that's where they stay. I'm just going to have to streamline flipping back and forth electronically.

Perhaps having the book open in 2 different readers might be the easiest thing. There's always a way where there is a will.

Flipping back and forth electronically has been a piece of cake. Honestly, I wouldn't worry that DFW says it's part of the 'experience.' Not everything that came out of his mouth was gold (sorry, folks). I'd say go with whatever makes for a more enjoyable reading experience for you.

Jason wrote: "Flipping back and forth electronically has been a piece of cake. Honestly, I wouldn't worry that DFW says it's part of the 'experience.' Not everything that came out of his mouth was gold (sorry, f..."

Or maybe you could just look at "make the reader go literally physically ‘back and forth’" in the tree book as tennis on a real court, and the 'back and forth' in the ereader as "Pong" on a B&W portable TV.

LOL, going back and forth is still back and forth, so yeah, whatever... :P
A 'virtual' back-and-forth.

PS . I like to cheat when i can, in any case. (Don't tell anybody)

Traveller wrote: "PS . I like to cheat when i can, in any case. (Don't tell anybody)"

In that case, you'll probably love Jim Struck and his efforts at plagiarism - but only if you don't cheat and skip note 304 - LOL!

I read note 304 - but I'm sure if I absorbed it. Unfortunately I think I WILL have to read it again the next time it is referenced.

You dont need anythong in it until it gets referenced in the text. All others just make it a blind alley, but you will know then why DFW referemced it earlier... I have GOT to stop using my phone for these posts!

I think he just referenced it in case you want to know more about how the weelchair assassins came to be in their wheelchairs. But I'm assuming that the value in that endnote comes in much later. Is my guess.

Nah-nah-nah-nah - you guys with physical volumes, guess what:
In the Kindle version, the notes are linked, so i can just click on the note number in the text, it takes me there, i click on the number again, and it takes me right back to where I was in the text again, in an instant! No paging around! Hahahahahahaha *evil maniacal laughter* :D

Traveller wrote: "Nah-nah-nah-nah - you guys with physical volumes, guess what:
In the Kindle version, the notes are linked, so i can just click on the note number in the text, it takes me there, i click on the numb..."

Well, that's no fun.

Traveller wrote: "Nah-nah-nah-nah - you guys with physical volumes, guess what:
In the Kindle version, the notes are linked, so i can just click on the note number in the text, it takes me there, i click on the numb..."

This is what I meant when I said it was a piece of cake. =)

Hal's presentiment of ''Evil" in his nightmares (P61-63) : "...the sudden intra-dream realization that the nightmare's very essence and center has been with you all along,even awake: it's just been...overlooked" and the "face in the floor" kind of recalls the line in Hamlet-" Something is rotten in the State of Denmark."(Act 1,Scene4), or am I reading too much into it!

Mike wrote: "I'm using the new Kindle Fire HD 8.9--it shows the page (from the 1079 page edition, as well as the %). It makes it very easy when going back and forth from the Kindle to the pbk. edition."

Well nyah nyah nyah, Mike Puma!

Mala, I've been finding Hamlet references here and there, too. Granted, that one in particular might be a bit of a stretch, but I'd say go with it.

Well as for the ebook v treebook debate- I was earlier reading IJ on Kobo on my iPad & the main problems that I faced were--

A) It gave me a false sense of achievement- it shows double the number of actual text & slow reader that I am,I was very happy that I've done enough reading for a day!
B) When ever you need to access the earlier pages for reference/recall/re-reading- it was kind of difficult to find,took lots of time.
C) For going back n forth from text to endnotes,the loading sign going round n round,made me kind of sleepy not unlike the IJ cartridge that made its viewers catatonic haha!
Still, to each his own. Go with whatever works for you.

Mike wrote: "Jason wrote: "Mike wrote: "I'm using the new Kindle Fire HD 8.9--it shows the page (from the 1079 page edition, as well as the %). It makes it very easy when going back and forth from the Kindle to..."
Just sayin' (good god, I hate that phrase)--not to mention that xray feature, which I'm just learning about.


You can save the world while you are reading great literature!

Mala wrote: "Well as for the ebook v treebook debate- I was earlier reading IJ on Kobo on my iPad & the main problems that I faced were--

A) It gave me a false sense of achievement- it shows double the number ..."

Hmm..-on my PC it goes instantly, zero delay--plus i can cram quite a lot of text into my page.

@Mike: *goes green with jealousy*- i wouldn't mind having your model, Mike! I just have the cheapie Kindle, but it's one of the best investments i have ever made! I have a little arm-pouch thingie for it, that can strap around my arm with velcro, and I can thus carry a huge library of books around with me effortlessly! :D

Back to IJ & Hamlet: why don't we start a Hamlet thread? I'm waiting for my annotated Hamlet to arrive, but i suppose i can start re-reading the naked text again as well.

Drugs, and IJ and barrenness: besides that IJ seems to be soaked in drugs to me up to this point, it also seems to be swamped in a huge desert of clinical detachment and emotional barrenness.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Jason wrote: "http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1..."
Oops! Am i a lazy group navigator or what? I suppose i've been lax here bc this read was officially only supposed to start in January. *blushes a little*

Thanks Jason!

*starts rummaging around for a copy of Hamlet* I wonder if i should just grab a copy off Gutenberg.com? My treebook copies might be dusty. Or, actually i might have a complete works of Shakespeare sitting on my hard drive, actually..

The one on Feedbooks is much more nicely formatted than the one at Project Gutenberg.

http://www.feedbooks.com/book/2846/ha...

Thanks, Jason. I see I do have a Kindle version, but it's very heavily annotated, which is nice if you want to do an in-depth study of Hamlet, but i think the copy you linked to now, is nice and clean, and very nice to have in addition, for if you just quickly prefer to go through the text itself.

Unfortunately the notes and commentary in my Kindle version besides bookending the play on either side, is also spread throughout the actual text of the play, so going through the text of the play by itself quickly, would appear to be impossible with it, but the Feedbooks version is perfect for that!

So thanks!

Traveller wrote: "Jason wrote: "http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1..."
Oops! Am i a lazy group navigator or what? I suppose i've been lax here bc this read was officially only supposed to start in Jan..."

Not at all, Trav -- a bunch of us started a month early bc of the upcoming Proust 2013 read. I've been swamped at work, but I am hopeful that after tomorrow I'll be through the worst of that, and can post more.

Sooo where is discussion on 86 to 226?

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Why didn't I see that earlier? I must be stoned.

I finally started today. I don't know how long this is going to take me since I'm also reading The Brothers Karamazov and plan to start some other really long classics in January.

But because my husband loved it and wants to read it again, I want to see what it's all about. I've read a bunch of his essays and thought they were terrific.

Thanks for including me, Kris.

Cynthia wrote: "I finally started today. I don't know how long this is going to take me since I'm also reading The Brothers Karamazov and plan to start some other really long classics in January.

But because my ..."

I'm so glad you're here with us, Cynthia! It will be fun, and we have lots of IJ veterans as well as first time readers -- a good mix.

Sits atop my all time list too... I get new insights every day from this group and the other group also reading it at this time. Stick with it through 250 pages and you will love it i think. I am finding out that there are many links to the bros k, as well as hamlet, ulysses, neither of which i have read, as well as gravitys rainbow, which i put down after 200 pgs because i was so grossed out.

I don't know why but I'm not getting any email notices of any comments or threads from this group. Any ideas?

I think only the moderators can answer that! I'm getting the notifications in my email updates ( not for all the threads though!) but I think the setting for this discussion is very private- only the members can access it & any comment you make also doesn't show on your wall/newsfeed which is a rather good thing,I mean why bother others who are not reading this book!

Cynthia, go into your profile settings and turn on notifications for all group threads.

http://www.goodreads.com/user/edit?fo...

'Emails' tab. Group Email Preferences is down toward the bottom.

I have become a complete convert in regard to the endnotes. If you skip them, you think they are unnecessary and a nuisance. The more you read them the more you see how integral they are. They are also often hilarious and you would miss out on many comments, conversations, hints, etc., if you did not read them. The longer notes especially (minus perhaps the film chronology)seem like they could easily be part of the "normal" text. It makes me wonder why some of them were made endnotes.

I do not think that everyone has this problem, but I do have a problem with retaining large amounts of the books I have read--especially when I am on a huge reading jag or the further I get from the reading of a particular book. I think DFW's method, whether intentional for this purpose or not, is brilliant. The immersion into a book to this degree where it becomes so physical, tangible, and so involving that the book (if physical) becomes so abused and well loved leads to a much deeper experience. The reader is forced to "work" and to interact. For me anyway, this seems to lead to greater retention . . . and a peculiar affection via infection.

Jim (and DFW by way of Mala, I think), I love the idea of the flipping back and forth as a tennis court metaphor.

Also, I am not trashing anyone who is reading this on an ereader; I simply do not (yet) have one and so have no experience with them. The ease of accessing the endnotes people mention actually sounds really lovely and fluid--undermining my physical argument perhaps?

I've tried it both ways (does this make me a bi-jester?) and it is much easier on the kindle. I wasn't smart enough to figure that out until I joined this group.

I'm enjoying my two bookmarks almost as much as the "woah that's a big book" comments.

The pot-paranoia part is awesome ;)

Yay Mary. :)

A group read with you is a great way to end 2012 and start 2013 .

Kris wrote: "Yay Mary. :)

A group read with you is a great way to end 2012 and start 2013 ."

I concur! :)

I think the level of difficulty depends on what other books the reader has read before, if a reader has read books by Saul Bellow, Don DeLillo, William Gaddis or Thomas Pynchon, then that reader should find Infinite Jest a lot easier then someone who's read Jonathan Franzen or F.Scott Fitzgerald, Infinite Jest to me is somewhere between a complex novel and a more straight forward one, David Foster Wallace read Don DeLillo and it shows in his writing

Who are Jonathan Franzen and F. Scott Fitzgerald? Are these friends of yours?

I think I've found my groove with this book after the first 80-ish pages...the Kate Gompert part was my favorite from this first section, closely followed by Hal's opening sequence.

Mary wrote: "I think I've found my groove with this book after the first 80-ish pages...the Kate Gompert part was my favorite from this first section, closely followed by Hal's opening sequence."

Agreed! I loved Kate's part. Though many other favorite sections followed thereafter.

Jason wrote: "Who are Jonathan Franzen and F. Scott Fitzgerald? Are these friends of yours?"

should of checked my spelling

No, I didn't notice any spelling errors. I was just screwing around.

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Awesome link! Although, even THIS one didn't tell me what the heck a Nuck was! LOL!"

I know I'm replying to this a bit late, but just in case you still have this doubt.. I read in I don't remember which IJ forum that Nuck is slang for Canadian, short for Canuck. I think someone even suggested by context that he was referring to French Canadians.