Goodreads Ireland discussion

This is the comment thread for our December montlhy group read, The Hobbit.

I look forward to discussing this book with you all.

all ready to go, just getting into the first chapter, so far im liking it ;)

From my status update of 12/1 (on page 1)

""This book is GR Ireland's December read. At the stroke of midnight (12/1/12) I have entered another world. I've been There before, perhaps thirty years ago; now I'm going Back Again. I read ...

In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit.

Now I'm starting chapter X. I'm no longer sure that I've ever read the book. I thought I read it to my son about thirty years ago when he was five or so. He sort of thinks I did too, though he's not sure. (What we both know for sure was that I read him The Lord of the Rings when he was in second grade. After that he read it to himself practically every year through high school.)

The edition I have of The Hobbit is a 50th anniversary edition published in 1987. It has a forward written by Tolkien's youngest son Christopher. It's fascinating, when I told my son about it he became very keen to read it.

At any rate, I remember almost nothing as I'm reading, I have no feeling that I know what's coming or how any of the little subplots are going to turn out. Didn't really expect that, but I'll take it!

Today I had a conversation with my grandson (going on five in ten days) about hobbits. We agreed that they were probably make-believe, like dragons, though he assured me that there used to be dragons.

About half-way through now. This is my 3rd or 4th time reading this book, but the first for 20+ years.

I have a 1974 UK paperback edition with a a pencil and ink sketch by Tolkien of a certain dragon (I'm a firm believer they existed in some magical land!) on the cover. So a skilled artist as well as a writer.

There is another book I have on "The History of the Hobbit" that I got as a present early this year: unpublished drafts and also commentary. I haven't read much of this yet, having not totally surrendered to my inner geek!

The edition I have also has drawings by Tolkien in it. There are also four full color, full page illustrations which were apparently in the original 1937 edition (or at least three of them were). Although the title page says "Illustrated by the author", I don't know whether Tolkien himself painted these illustrations.

We all the discussion about Tolkien's art, I though I'd post the back cover pic from my old paperback.

The same illustration is in my book, between pp 192 and 193. The coloration might be slightly different. Yours appears sharper, you must know how to use your scanner or photo processor better than I do.

I'm cheating, because I just finished reading this to my children a few weeks ago, having finished Lord of the Rings. Great book; I've read it myself several times, but you get a whole new perspective reading it aloud to children. While I do love LOTR, some of it can be a little (*whispers*) long-winded, especially if you're reading it aloud and can't just skip to the end of a descriptive paragraph or song as you can if reading normally. The Hobbit is much tighter, and ideal for a younger age group while still being an enjoyable book for adults.

@Ted. This isn't a scan of my copy. If it were it would have the price in $US and $Canadian slightly under Bilbo. I found a suitable version on a Tolkien enthusiast's website.

@Maria. Reading over The Hobbit again I can see what you mean.But for me the real difference is the air of menace in LOTR. The only time The Hobbit ever came close to this was (view spoiler)[when Bilbo was in Gollum's lair. (hide spoiler)]

Otherwise I found it to be a thoroughly enjoyable adventure.

The "air of menace". Yes indeed, Declan, nicely put. I still remember that from LOTR, even having read it 30 years ago (or am I remembering the movie? who knows). But you're right about that lacking in the Hobbit, at least in what I've read so far. Yes, they get in nasty situations, but somehow it's not got the same air of menace! (And in LOTR, many of the likeable, even if not really main, characters really did die.)

I think the destruction of nature in LOTR played a large part in this. In The Hobbit the natural surroundings remain pretty much undisturbed. The Orcs wreak havoc in LOTR. I think Jackson portrayed it beautifully in the movie.

In The Hobbit the surroundings always feel inviting. I'm dying to see the new movie.

Well, not so inviting in the case of Mirkwood!

I'm sure my wife and I will see the movie, even though we don't see very many. But before the fact I'm a little miffed that they thought this comparatively slim book needed as many movies to tell its story as the LOTR trilogy did.

I read this book as a child myself, and of course I loved it. Several years later, though, I encountered Beowulf, and there are undeniable similarities. As it turns out, Tolkien was a widely-recognized scholar of Beowulf. I went back and read The Hobbit again, and it changes the whole dynamic of the read... I found myself looking for hidden clues and ties to the old poem, and it became almost a game... As if Tolkien's world weren't already wonderful enough, it made it feel like I now knew a secret passage through it. :) If any of you have read Beowulf, I'd encourage you to look for the connections yourself. It'd enjoy the discussion!

Ted wrote: "Well, not so inviting in the case of Mirkwood!

I'm sure my wife and I will see the movie, even though we don't see very many. But before the fact I'm a little miffed that they thought this compar..."

Actually, Mirkwood did come across as quite threatening, but I didn't find this to be protracted. (view spoiler)[I'm not back to this point yet, but if memory serves me they soon found themselves in the refuge of Beorn's hospitality (hide spoiler)]. Poor Sam and Frodo, for their part, were usually closely pursued by the Nazgul or faced the possibility of betrayal by Gollum who travelled in their company for a large part of the story.

Also, I had no idea that there were to be three movies. This had completely passed me by. I can only assume that other works from the Middle-Earth universe are to be included. I agree completely that The Hobbit alone can't justify that amount of screen time.

Annie wrote: "I read this book as a child myself, and of course I loved it. Several years later, though, I encountered Beowulf, and there are undeniable similarities. As it turns out, Tolkien was a widely-recogn..."

I've never read the original Beowulf, but I have seen a rather lovely animated version which was commissioned after LOTR began production.

I've included the link to a six-part Youtube platlist for anyone interested in the story.

I think it is well worth watching. You can really see where Tolkien found his inspiration.

I should mention that the entire playlist only comes to around 25 minutes. It is not an extended depiction.

As Woody Allen said to Diane Keaton in Annie Hall when she's deciding what university course to do: 'Just don't do anything where they make you read Boewolf.' Good advice...

Poor Beowulf. Kills Grendel and the dragon and he still can't get any respect.

I think it's interesting that Tolkien is telling virtually the same story, and yet the mere mention of Beowulf elicits groans while The Hobbit is a beloved favorite for almost anyone who's read it. There are certain scenes in The Hobbit that are identical to those in Beowulf. It goes to show how the language and presentation of a story may be even more important than the story itself.

Annie & Declan:
Wow, I'd never heard about the Beowulf similarities before. I believe I read Beowulf decades ago, long before I first read The Hobbit (whenever that was?). Annie's comment #19 is surely very true. In regards to the presentation, I'm sure that Tolkien makes us care much more for his main characters than the author of Beowulf is able to do - for one thing, Tolkien's characters are much more like us psychologically than I recall any characters in medieval literature being. (At least that's the way I perceive them.)

I'm not sure how relevant this is to your comment, Ted, but when I read The Táin and watched Beowulf I never worried for any of the warriors' safety. War was their stock-in-trade and death was the risk it carried. Whether or not they would be victorious was what held my interest. But when Bilbo, Frodo or Sam were in danger (and Pip and Merry) I worried for them. They were accidental heroes who weren't looking for trouble. Trouble found them.

As wonderful as I remembered it and a book that I didn't want to finish!

The parallel with Beowolf is new to me, but not surprising given Tolkien's background, though I have heard that there are those that say Lord of the Rings is a reference to World War II.

Apparently the new film is going to be more of a loose adaptation, looking forward to all three parts eagerly.

I've finished my re-read and I'll be off to see the movie in the morning. In light of the fact that it's going to be a screen trilogy I'm dying to get a feel of the direction that it's taking.

@ Declan - Considering it’s not a very big book, I’m surprised that Peter Jackson has squeezed 3 films out of this. I will be interested to hear what you have to say about the film.

Also did anyone watch the one show last night they did a piece on Tolkien, about the lovely Christmas stories he wrote for his children, and apparently he wrote a book between the hobbit and lord of the rings that has never been published.

Kate :-)

The New Yorker reviewed the film this week. They are often kind of down on these kind of films, but I was surprised at the many glowing remarks about it. However, the reviewer was somewhat down on the three-film format, and (quite surprising to me) (view spoiler)[the first film ends at the point where our band has been treed by the Wargs (hide spoiler)]! Also, the second and third films have been padded somewhat by including stuff that isn't in the book at all. So we'll have to see what the reaction of hard-core Hobbit fans is, it could be mixed.

As to the book, I finished it a couple days ago. Enjoyed it tremendously, and concluded that either I never did read it to my son thirty years ago, or I wasn't paying much attention when I did. Only bits and pieces of the book seemed at all familiar, and there could be many explanations for that "familiarity"

I-like-to-read wrote: "@ Declan - Considering it’s not a very big book, I’m surprised that Peter Jackson has squeezed 3 films out of this. I will be interested to hear what you have to say about the film.

Also did anyon..."

I missed both of those, Kate. I've been shunning television lately. I wouldn't be surprised if this Christmas story was released next year or soon after.

Ted wrote: "The New Yorker reviewed the film this week. They are often kind of down on these kind of films, but I was surprised at the many glowing remarks about it. However, the reviewer was somewhat down o..."

I'll be leaving to see it in the next few minutes. Thinking about the new trilogy over the past couple of days I remembered that Tom Bombadil was omitted completely from the LOTR movies, and their was a novel devoted entirely to him, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil. I'm wondering if he may feature heavily in this trilogy as he was a much-loved character.

I got home a little while ago and I really enjoyed the movie. Apart from the main gist of the plot it's very different from the book. It's crammed with action sequences, there are more than a few other charcters from thr Middle-earth universe and there are a few jokes which are above the heads of younger viewers. It's not Tolkien's The Hobbit, but it is in the spirit of Middle-earth.

My friend, Tracy, from the English Cozy Mystery club, just wrote this review on the "Hobbit". It's so good that I had to share it will of you.

I can't review The Hobbit: it's part of me, so I can't be objective.

Instead, kick on the karaoke machine.

He Didn’t Mean To Adventure
- The story of The Hobbit, singable to the tune of Billy Joel’s “We Didn’t Start the Fire”

Bilbo is respectable in Bag End Under Hill
Till “Gandalf tea Wednesday” and a rune scratched on his door.
Fili Kili Ori Óin, Dori Nori Bombur Glóin
Bifur, Dwalin, Bofur, Balin - are there any more?!
Yes: Thorin especially; Gandalf makes fourteen
An Unexpected Party, and a burglar with no choice.
Green Dragon, Bywater, Trolls consider slaughter:
Bert, Tom, and William - Gandalf throws his voice.

Bilbo: I didn’t mean to adventure
Minding my own business,
Then all things went amiss
I didn’t mean to adventure
Taken from my doorstep
Now with Gandalf I schlep

Heading on to Rivendell, Elrond’s House where elves yet dwell
Moon runes, Elf tunes, but it’s not long before:
Thunderstorms, giants swarm, misery is uniform
Captured by the Goblins, but Gandalf comes through once more
Goblin King, a missing Ring(!), Bilbo makes good use of Sting
A game of Riddles in the Dark, Gollum’s bite’s worse than his bark
Balin is sharp-sighted, the party’s reunited,
Bilbo appears, Dwarves cheer, Gandalf is delighted.

Bilbo: I didn’t mean to adventure
Wish that singing was my kettle
Not Elves in fine fettle
I didn’t mean to adventure
Almost served like mutton
Then lost all my buttons

From the frying pan of Goblin fray to Wargs and wolves, ya harri hey!
An eye-opener and no mistake, racket keeps Eagles awake
A night spent in an eyrie, Beorn’s house is more cheery
Ponies serve up honey-cake, with dogs and rams - no chops or steak
Beorn gives good advice (maybe should’ve told ‘em twice)
Black squirrels and butterflies, cobwebs and insect eyes
White hart frustrates, Bombur is a dead weight
Vanishing feasts agonize, all lose their heads (no real surprise)

Bilbo: I didn’t mean to adventure
I don’t think I’m an asset -
Are we nearly there yet?
I didn’t mean to adventure
The Road goes ever on
That’s why I’m woebegone

Bilbo’s nearly caught in webs: courage peaks as daylight ebbs
Attercop, Attercop, monster spiders nearly get the drop
Thorin caught by Wood-elves, the rest made prisoners themselves -
Butler and guard drink till they drop; barrels float, Bilbo atop
Bilbo starts to cough and sneeze; Fili says No apples, please!
Desolation of the Dragon, now it’s all up to Burglar Baggins!

Bilbo: I didn’t mean to adventure
Hope I come in useful
Not look too much a fool
I didn’t mean to adventure
Once I blew smokerings
Now I’ve got this joke Ring

Bilbo ‘thags you very buch’; old black snail-cracking thrush
Smaug rises in fire, off to Laketown venting ire
But now the dragon’s Not At Home, I’ll just take that Arkenstone
Goblets they found there for themselves, and harps of gold where once they delved
Mithril vest, did Smaug go west? Lake Town is put to the test
Grim-voiced Bard, black arrow last, a little bird speaks as Smaug flies past
Smaug goes down in clouds of steam - Bard should be king, the Dale folk deem
Dalemen and Elf array marching northward straightaway

Bilbo: I didn’t mean to adventure
I miss my good old arm-chair
Once back I won’t leave there
I didn’t mean to adventure
Don’t care how much gold’s strewn
Can I be going home soon?

Old Roäc, son of Carc, reports Bard’s arrow hit its mark -
That’s the good news; bad remains - Thorin sends him off to Dain
Dueling ballads, Elves and Dwarves - Thorin’ll sit on gold and starve
The Clouds Burst, Bilbo’s cursed, after Dain comes the worst -
Goblins led by Azog’s son - wolves and Wargs behind them run
Disagreements disappear - so does Bilbo, thinking clear
Goblins offer no reprieve, then Thorin turns the tide at eve
And Bilbo sees a welcome sight - "Eagles are coming!" To join the fight

Bilbo: I didn’t mean to adventure
I’ve a helm and hard skull
Of adventure chock-full
I didn’t mean to adventure
Didn’t expect warfare
Eagles, Dwarves, Wargs, Elves, bear

Bilbo comes to once more - Thorin’s passing grieves him sore
And Fili and Kili, body and shield, defending Thorin died before
Under the Mountain Dain’s now King, Even dragons have their ending
Chest of silver, chest of gold, Yule-tide with Gandalf in Beorn’s hold
Bilbo’s Took blood grows more tired the closer he comes to the Shire
Rivendell - the first of May, and Elves’ lullabyes at break of day
Auction ended, SB’s offended, reputation gone and won’t be mended
Thus ends the tale, how beyond all ken, Bilbo journeyed There and Back Again.

I really enjoyed that, Susan. Lol!

You should warn her, though, that if she intends on seeing the movie that it isn't Tolkien's The Hobbit. It's just loosely based around it.

I'm about two-thirds through the book and enjoying it. My son has a special anniversary edition from a few years back, though I realize 2012 is the 75th anniversary. It's an enjoyable read. I like the comparisons being made here to Beowulf. I have the Seamus Heaney translation of Beowulf: A New Verse Translation on my shelves and should read it. In January I start a 5 week course on Heaney. It's a class at my local bookstore so no heavy lifting.

I had no idea that Seamus Heaney published his own translation. That complety passed me by.

If I ever do get around to reading it I'll read that one.

Cool I live near Bellaghy (his hometown) he's a bit of a legend here : )

Woohoo got the limited edition of the hobbit for Christmas. Haven't figured out how to post the pictures

Declan wrote: "I had no idea that Seamus Heaney published his own translation. That complety passed me by.

If I ever do get around to reading it I'll read that one."

The bit I've read is so much better than what I was subjected to in school. I can't remember if it was secondary school or undergraduate at university...

@Stephen. You'll have to upoad then somewhere (like your Goodreads photos or a filehost like Photobucket) and the you can paste them into the thread using the image URL with the html code.

@Barbara. Did you ever discuss it's significance before Tolkien when you studied it? It seems to me that it only became significant to modern literature after The Hobbit. Would you know whether or not it had any impact/influence on earlier fantasy novels?

I will soon post a review of this book, which will probably mostly be about the edition of the book that I have (see post #4), and the Forward in that edition by Christopher Tolkien. I plan on scanning the forward into a PDF document. If you would be interested in receiving this, I suggest that we become friends, then you can Message me your email address and I can send it to you.

I have pretty much decided to skip the movie. Perhaps once they are all out, I might watch them all as a package. However, I am pretty upset at Jackson's deeming it necessary to turn a simple 300 page story (far less complex than any of the Ring books) into a 3-part series of movies.

I would also like to pass along what I have seen about the 48 frame per second shooting: don't see it if you can see the 24-fps version instead. I have seen more than one reviewer comment something to the effect that the 48-fps version makes the movie look like a cartoon.

I wouldn't quite agree with the cartoon assessment, but it does have a feel of recent comic book movies. More in the vein of the Marvel super heroes than the likes of Zack Snyder's efforts.

I finished the book this morning. An entertaining read, though I found myself wondering how Peter Jackson was going to make this into three movies. I quite like Bilbo Baggins, an unlikely but very likeable hero (three words with like in a single sentence).

Barbara wrote: "I finished the book this morning. An entertaining read, though I found myself wondering how Peter Jackson was going to make this into three movies. I quite like Bilbo Baggins, an unlikely but very ..."

Well, I liked your comment. After seeing the first movie I can tell you it's quite different to the novel. I do think it's in the spirit of Middle-earth, though. I know it will be divisive. Every genre has its purists and Fantasy/Tolkien novels are no different.

I never did get around to rereading the book but I saw the movie today. Three hours of fantastic special effects and visuals. Just not the same as reading it but still a good movie. I want to go to New Zealand now.

I've been saying that I'm going to New zealand for the past 10 years since LOTR, but I still haven't gotten off my arse. It does look beautiful.

Someday...It takes 14 hours from the Seattle area just to get there. It would be worth it. Now I just have to save the money.

@Declan same here and this will be the first thing i'll check out.
http://www.hobbitontours.com/ check out the green dragon.

@Laura. It's a bit of an ordeal flying from Dublin, too. It's a lot cheaper if you change flights but that usually entails an overnight stay somewhere between Dubai and Singapore.

@Stephen. It looks beautiful. If I ever get there I'm going to climb off the wagon and have a beer in the Green Dragon. It's like Disney Land for fantasy nerds.

There's a town in New Zeland called Dunedin that I have always wanted to see. They moved a Scottish castle brick by brick there. They have a penguin preserve and a Cadbury chocolate factory. It has really caught my imagination. So many places to see, so little money.

@Declan exactly, would be a dream to visit there just imagine standing at Bilbo's door gazing over the shire, awesome.

I may need to join a new group: the "Day Late and Dollar Short" group since it's now January, and I've just begun reading The Hobbit. This is my first time reading it (where have I been?!) and I'm thoroughly engrossed in it. I know I'll enjoy reading others' posts on it. I have the enhanced e-book version, and it includes audio of Tolkien reading some passages aloud. What a treat :)

Drop my bacon sandwich!!!!!!!!

Audio of Tolkien reading!? I wan't this, now.

Declan wrote: "Drop my bacon sandwich!!!!!!!!

Audio of Tolkien reading!? I wan't this, now."

It is so, so cool. What lucky children to have their father write the story, illustrate it---and record himself reading it.

I'll have to get my hands on a copy.

He really comes across as such an excellent, caring father. I would have loved to meet the man.