Catholic Thought discussion

I was wondering if anyone has heard or read either of these two books. I found one at a local divinity school where it's required reading for a class and the other in a church donation bin.

American Jesus: How the Son of God Became a National Icon by Stephen R. Prothero

The Lost Years of Jesus: Documentary Evidence of Jesus' 17-Year Journey to the East by Elizabeth Clare Prophet

Have not heard of either. But, the second title sounds a bit "out there". I would question the scholarship in it. If there was credible evidence of these "lost years", I would imagine numerous others would have picked up on it and I have not seen any historian or theologian speaking of it.

Leslie wrote: "I was wondering if anyone has heard or read either of these two books. I found one at a local divinity school where it's required reading for a class and the other in a church donation bin.

[book..."

American Jesus has popped up in my recommendations window on here and it sounds absolutely fascinating, I have similar books on my to read list. I've seen a few essays and articles on Jesus' "Journey to the East" as the second title puts it and I find them to be, at best, circumstantial and in most cases bordering on conspiratorial reasoning. Might be interesting to read, but the bibliography is probably lacking.

I felt the exact same way as the two of you about the second book but started it and liked it. That said, I only had time for about five pages. There's so much garbage out there and I do tend to feel sceptical, but occasionally there's a gem in the rough so I try to stay open minded.

Neither will get read immediately, but I am curious about the first as this Divinity school has required it several years now (I'm sure by the same professor of course).

I'm starting The Second Coming by Walker Percy. He always comes up in the Catholic must read lists but this will be my first run with him. Just started it and it looks good already. :-)

An Introduction to the Old Testament: Canon and Christian Imagination by Walter Brueggemann

This was my first sustained, scholarly reading in canonical studies. Prior to this, my primary exposure was to source criticism with its emphasis on the historical context of the text of the Old Testament. Typical of Walter Brueggemann, this overview was thorough, thought provoking, steeped in extensive scholarship and well worth the investment of time and brain cells. I know I have only retained a fraction of the material presented. A re-read is in order as well as additional reading in this field.

Irene wrote: "An Introduction to the Old Testament: Canon and Christian Imagination by Walter Brueggemann

This was my first sustained, scholarly reading in canonical studies. Prior to this, my primary exposur..."

That's how I feel about the two history books I read this summer on Christianity. :-)

So, I really liked Go Set a Watchman and the reason I brought it up here was I thought it'd have some good discussion of issues that we still deal with, namely racism, and I think it did achieve that. My full review is here and feel free to kick off a discussion on the review itself.

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Joseph wrote: "So, I really liked Go Set a Watchman and the reason I brought it up here was I thought it'd have some good discussion of issues that we still deal with, namely racism, and I think i..."

I just got my copy and am looking forward to reading it. Thanks!

Soul Sisters Text by Edwina Gateley, Art by Louis Glanzman

Twelve lovely portraits of Gospel figures are accompanied by poetic reflections on that woman. Maybe I don’t sufficiently understand free verse poetry, but these reflections struck me as prose masquerading as poetry by its formatting in short lines. In each of these reflections, Gateley addresses the women in the illustration, linking her presumed oppression under a pervasive patriarchal structure with the similar patriarchal oppression of women today. Old or young, barren or pregnant, vigorous or ill, it would seem that in every state in life, women are inevitably repressed and tormented victims of hypocritical patriarchal authoritarian systems. I will use the illustrations as meditation pieces in days of reflection, but I do not anticipate using the texts.

Nice review of "Go Set A Watchman", Joseph.

I saw this book advertised in a Catholic book club....I think on EWTN/The National Catholic Register and bought it.


Framing Faith: From Camera to Pen, An Award-Winning Photojournalist Captures God in a Hurried World by Matthew Knisely

Leslie wrote: "I saw this book advertised in a Catholic book club....I think on EWTN/The National Catholic Register and bought it.


[book:Framing Faith: From Camera to Pen, An Award-Winning Photojournalist Captu..."

Does it come in an ebook format Leslie? I get all my books that way as space is limited where I live. I rather like the idea of having a book on my phone or iPad so I can read any place I am.

Yes, it does come in Kindle.

Leslie wrote: "Yes, it does come in Kindle."

Need to make some fresh coffee but I think I'll check out if I can download it to my iPad. Thanks Leslie. Your advice and info are very much appreciated.

If you click on my link it should take you over to Amazon. You're welcome.

I just found it on iTunes Leslie so it's on my list. YAY!!

It's a photographic look at religion. Can you do that on iTunes?

Leslie wrote: "It's a photographic look at religion. Can you do that on iTunes?"

Yes. You have to download a free app iBooks to read anything but you can view pictures.

Good to know!

I got my book, Framing Faith. I have too many others going all at once to start yet another, but I wanted to let you know....there's not many pictures in here. When I read it I'll give some feedback.

Just bought two new books. The Pope's Daughter by Dario Fo and Fields of Blood: Religion and the History of Violence by Karen Armstrong. I hope they are good!

Someone on here suggested as a Buddy Read The Pope's Daughter. I was willing to be a moderator just to not place any more burden on the current moderators, if they were okay with it.

Anyway, Doreen felt this book would be controversial in that it discuses a negative time in the church and that we are trying to stay upbeat here, so perhaps would be best read privately.

I just wanted to say that I wasn't deliberately mentioning a controversial book. I just liked the cover, saw the author was a Nobel prize winner for literature, and grabbed it. That's all. I definitely wasn't trying to stir up negativity about the church in any way! That's completely the opposite of how I feel.

I enjoy educating myself about the controversial issues/dark time periods too, but honestly, we are inundated with controversy already in the news on a daily basis. Also, I've seen how this can go wrong on a site and don't want to go down that path either. If someone reads it too, private message me and we can discuss it if interested. For now, I'm already behind in my other books, so will be moving it to my Not-In-Such-A-Hurray-To-Read-Pile.

So far during Pope Francis' visit to the U.S., he has mentioned Thomas Merton two or three times in his speeches. Maybe some time in the future we could do a group read on one of Merton's books?

Susan Margaret,

I'm in favor of Merton. The nice thing with him is he has large and small books. :-)

I have read a bit of Merton and would love to read and discuss more. I also enjoy reading Day who Pope Francis also highlighted. She has been an inspiration for me, especially when I was younger.

Irene wrote: "I have read a bit of Merton and would love to read and discuss more. I also enjoy reading Day who Pope Francis also highlighted. She has been an inspiration for me, especially when I was younger."

Susan, Leslie and Irene I think you have excellent ideas. Maybe we could check out books on both Day and Merton and vote from there. Pope Francis's visit has definitely been inspiring.

Thanks Doreen. Below is a list of Thomas Merton books which was on the recommended Merton reading list on the Catholic.com website:

The Seven Storey Mountain, 1948
The Tears of the Blind Lions, 1949
Waters of Siloe, 1949
Seeds of Contemplation, 1949
The Ascent to Truth, 1951
Bread in the Wilderness, 1953
The Sign of Jonas, 1953
The Last of the Fathers, 1954
No Man is an Island, 1955
The Living Bread, 1956
The Silent Life, 1957
Thoughts in Solitude, 1958

BOOKS WRITTEN BY DOROTHY DAY…

The Long Lonliness – The Autobiography of Dorothy Day; San Francisco: Harber & Row, 1981, 1952

Dorothy Day – In My Own Words; Edited and Compiled by Phyllis Zagano; Missouri: Liquori, 2003,

From Union Square to Rome; New York: Arno Press, 1978, 1938

House of Hospitality; New York: Sheed & Ward, 1939.

Loaves and Fishes; San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1983, 1963.

On Pilgrimage; New York: Catholic Worker Books, 1948

On Pilgrimage – The Sixties; New York: Curtis Books, 1972.

Therese; Springfield, Illinois: Templegate, 1979.

Susan Margaret wrote: "Thanks Doreen. Below is a list of Thomas Merton books which was on the recommended Merton reading list on the Catholic.com website:

The Seven Storey Mountain, 1948
The Tears of the Blind Lions, 19..."

Thank you Susan Margaret. You will notice that Catholic com, the website of Catholic Answers, does not list anything beyond 1958. However, Merton wrote some really good works during the sixties. In my opinion they are concerned about some of his contemplative works which demonstrate a Buddhist influence in his thought so they just cut things off in the fifties and lost some really good stuff.


For general information, I read "Seven Story Mountain" for the first time in 1962 while in college. It had a very positive impact because it showed Merton struggling with sin but continually picking himself up and moving forward. Make no mistake Merton was a sinner, nothing to be proud of. But his striving and battles resonated with young men at the time.

Fifty years later, 2012, I read it again, this time I was fortunate enough to be with a group of young seminarians. I enjoyed the book but most of all I enjoyed their reactions to it, that was wonderful.

Also, "Seeds of Contemplation" is no longer in print but the "New Seeds of Contemplation" is in print and it builds on the first. I have also read "No Man is an Island", "Ascent to Truth" and "Thoughts in Solitude" from their list and recommend them.

In my opinion, Bishop Sheen and Fr. Louis (Merton) attracted more men to the priesthood than anything else going on in the fifties and early sixties.

I have a book Merton wrote that was his version of The Divine Office. I enjoy it, but it's not group read material. I've started The Seven Story Mountain but it was a long time ago and never finished it due to career deadlines. Similarly, I was in another book club that read The Long Loneliness, but wasn't able to read that month....so I can do anything. I'm looking forward to it, either way.

Leslie wrote: "I have a book Merton wrote that was his version of The Divine Office. I enjoy it, but it's not group read material. I've started The Seven Story Mountain but it was a long time ago and never fini..."

Is that the "Book of Hours" edited by Kathleen Deignan? I read and enjoyed that.

Yes Mike. :-) I like it too. I usually use the church's Divine Office, but sometimes I get out Merton's from time to time.

I pulled out all of my Merton books. I have:

The Book of Hours (wouldn't recommend it for this purpose)

The Seven Story Mountain (long but always on a Catholic must read book list) - I can handle long reads

The Silent Life

Thoughts in Solitude

No Man is An Island (I also see this on must read lists quite often)

The Springs of Contemplation

Thoughts on the East

I haven't read any of these.

The Springs of Contemplation is a retreat at the Abbey of Gethsemani with a forward by Kathleen Norris - 1992

Thoughts on the East - numerous copyrights. 1965 and onward. Merton's thoughts on Eastern Religions following his belief "that East and West share a unity of outlook and purpose a common spiritual climate."

I already have Day's The Long Lonliness. (Unread)

Leslie wrote: "Yes Mike. :-) I like it too. I usually use the church's Divine Office, but sometimes I get out Merton's from time to time.

I pulled out all of my Merton books. I have:

The Book of Hours (woul..."

Seven Story Mountain is worth the time if you really want to get into Merton; there is so much background giving you insight into his development as a person. This in turn will help when handling his other works, especially the earlier works.

I know. I really liked it when I started it before. It's just been years since I read it. I think it was 1999! :-)

I have read The Long Loneliness and Seven Story Mountain. I have read several of Merton's journals along with other titles. Also have read some of the collections of essays by Day. Could not remember all the titles I have read. But, anything is worth a revisit.

Just finished:
On Care For Our Common Home by Pope Francis

This papal document was courageous, challenging and quite current. I really appreciated its accessibility. Addressed to all people about an issue concerning all people, it did not get bogged down in ecclesial language or rely solely on Scripture and moral theology. Rather it drew on the biological, social, political and earth sciences.

Thank you for your comments Irene. :-)

I knew I had another book on this topic. Today I found my book, The Vision of Thomas Merton ed. by Patrick F. O'Connell.

I have not read anything by Merton or Day. Anything that is chosen is fine with me.

Me too.

We have been having some good discussions regarding books that may be waiting in the wings, which is timely since our group reads will be drawing to a close. I would like to re-post some material and some of my thoughts regarding religious reading.

I can’t tell you how many times I have stood among the shelves at the local book store and wondered if this or that book is any good. Will it help me grow in my faith or just confuse me? Perhaps this is not a problem for the members here but in case it occasionally is, I wanted to be part of a site that would offer only the best books that are highly recommended by people I know and trust. A site where people would not have to wonder about the Catholicity of the books they were selecting to read. A site that would assist in selecting books that would draw them closer to the faith as taught by the Catholic Church.

I wanted a site where people could be relaxed and allow a sense of peace to come into their reading. So I started to look for books recommended by church leaders and people active in Catholic evangelization; Fr. John McCloskey, Fr. Robert Barron, Fr. Mitch Pacwa, Patrick Madrid and some others. I will repost Fr. McCloskey’s life long list so all of our members can review it. There is so much that needs to be read, that is enlightening and uplifting, that I didn’t want to spend time with the controversial. I know that debate sharpens the mind but savoring thoughts brings rest to the mind. I really believe that just making it through the day offers plenty of challenge for most people; the quiet of a book which draws us closer to God is a good way to rest.


Here is Fr. John’s reading list. Lifetime Reading List

My comments are just that, one person’s comments; they need to be blended with those from other members. I have read quite a few of the books and authors from this list and they have brought me hours of enjoyable reading. The current active members need to set the tone for the future, a future to which I will not belong.

In a couple of weeks I will leave the group, become inactive, is a better way to put it, since I will maintain my membership. I am thoroughly enjoying the readings and the comments but have other directions to follow. I have enjoyed the past four years plus on the various groups within Good Reads, but this group is special. Thank you all and especially Doreen.

I hope to finish the “Founding” with the group. I can assure you that I did not double post on the reading schedule for the "Founding" to hasten my departure, it really was a mistake.

I will be truly sad to see you leave! Your posts have been educational and inspiring. I like your thoughts about how this group should be, a peaceful and reflective place. You will be truly missed!!

Mike wrote: "We have been having some good discussions regarding books that may be waiting in the wings, which is timely since our group reads will be drawing to a close. I would like to re-post some material a..."

Mike I will dearly miss your wise wisdom and great friendship. I understand your reasons for what you have to do and am glad your not entirely leaving the group. I will do everthing I can to make it continue and be as worthy as you set it up to be. We're a unique sort of family here and together we will be strong in our devotion to the group and our faith.

I will appreciate if any can help out in any way. I think we all help to balance each other out and our group is the stronger and better for it.

Mike, I know I am very new to this group and have not really gotten to know anyone yet. But, I want to wish you all the best in whatever new direction your life is takeing. God bless you.

Mike! I'm so upset that you are leaving!!! I haven't known you long, but always love reading your thoughtful comments. I agree wholeheartedly about the quality of the selections. I want to read exactly in that way. I will read something controversial from time to time just to further educate myself, but there are so many wonderful books to choose from! I recently listed a book I had picked up at a local bookstore to read personally. It wasn't listed in the to consider list, but just what I'm reading or will read. I had no idea it was as racy as it looks to be. LOL. I'm still going to read it just to understand the mystery of the controversy. LOL. In any event, it wasn't meant to stir up anything.

Your presence will truly be missed but I'm glad you'll read along with us. I'd be happy to help moderate if needed. Please rejoin ASAP. :-)

It's my fault about the reading ahead. I was the one that asked if we could post the headers for the next thread since I was reading ahead thinking I would have a schedule conflict f o r what is now last week. I ended up not leaving so slowed back down and now I'm struggling to catch up. LOL. I'm so sorry for the confusion.

As for our discussion about Merton titles, I just received an e-mail ad from Ave Maria Press announcing a sale on their Merton titles. I have not had a chance to go to their website to check out how much of a reduction or the range of titles. Just wanted people to know in case anyone was interested.

I found another Merton. Conjuctures of a Guilty Bystander.

Maybe we should put up a poll soon so we can take advantage of the sale quickly?

Most are available on Kindle too...FYI.