Reading the Classics discussion

We seemed to be lacking this vitally important place. xD

Please discuss Book 5: Pro and Contra.

CrushingonGuysFromBooks wrote: "Kassandra waited for the nurse to come check her out and turned to look at Sacha. It might not show by the way they had easily gotten annoyed with each other but they were pretty close oddly. She r..."

Sacha brought Kassandra into the Medical Center. Simply looking at the nurse, he was able to convey his message to her. The nurse got up from her seat and lead him to a room, where he gently set Kassandra on a bed and was then ushered out of the room so the nurses could inspect Kassandra to pinpoint what exactly was wrong and how she would have to be treated. Back in the waiting room, Sacha put in Kassandra's ID into the machine to say that she was currently there, along with his own. After he completed that task, he sat down on a chair patiently waiting.

Kassandra was not a happy girl at the moment. Not only was her leg messed up but than Sacha was forced out of the room who the Hell is She supposed to talk to now?! Finally the nurses came back and told her she had to stay off her foot and leg for the entire day. What the hell? She was a ver busy girl grumbling she called Sacha in and told him. "You know I can't sleep at night so your joining me and I need you to carry me or will be for one of the favors you owe me."

The nurses were trying to find her crutches, in the meantime Sacha was in her room. Sacha didn't comment, simply leaning against the door frame of the room. "I'll be late, I have plans with Shae." He said. They needed to talk to Stanton about their viola and cello duet and if he would help to convince Father of the fact that it would not be such a horrible idea. Sacha had already told Shae he'd meet her to call Stanton, but even before that he was going to help her set up her room. The nurse came back in the room with the crutches, not giving Kassandra time to reply. She explained how to use the crutches before saying Kassandra was free to go but needed to stay off her foot. With those words the nurse left.

Kassandra shrugged,"You're telling me this as if I don't already know this. You're always late I've grown to expect it and if you don't come late airplane be weird." Licking her lips she studied him,"So I'm calling in another favor you owe me. I want to draw you, you and your physical appearance are needed. " She put on a small pout,"Please?" She tried not to scrunch up her nose in distaste , god she sounded like some pathetic girl. Sacha wasn't stupid enough to believe she actually meant the pout and please but she did want to draw him. He was the other half of he drawing she bargained for with Vince.

"No the favors are still the same." He said in a tone that meant there was nothing she could do or say to him that would change his answer. He looked at her with a blank expression as she told him that she wanted to draw him. He did not like the idea of sitting around for her and allowing her to draw him. That was just no. "I'll help you out of your dorm at night but you do not get to draw me." Sacha said simply. Why would she want to draw him anyway? There were far more many young men on campus whom she could ask.

"Come on Sacha! A favor is a favor is it not?" Kassandra wracked her head,"Why can't I draw you? You just contrast so greatly with the other half of my drawing that I need you. It's not just any drawing you know the art kids always have a big art show in the end of the year and the best drawing will be sent to a museum for display. You're my chance to win!" She really wanted Sacha, the one thing about their friendship was that they were stubborn as a mule, both of them, and it's hard to sway either one. Checking the time she sighed, she had to go. "I need to go but I know you'll decide with me. See you at night, same place." Using her crutches she left.

All the philosophy in this section has been dragging for me. I like it when there's action going on, but all this "is there a God or isn't there?" stuff can only go on so long before it gets old. Has anyone else felt this way? It could just be the translation I'm listening to, though. That does tend to make a big difference.

Alana, I'm DYING in this section! Having such a hard time picking the book up and getting through even a chapter when I do! I'm really glad I'm not the only one feeling this way! Ugh, move on book, I'm begging you!

It's getting better around section VII or so, but yeah, this middle part is tough. The only way I'm getting through it is by listening on audio while I work on finishing up Christmas presents (still have a few more scarves to make and get in the mail). I just make up my mind to do one "book" every day, which isn't too bad, when it's just playing in your ear. I think I'm done with Russian novels for awhile after this.

How did this book win the poll by such a landslide?

We all wanted to read it. Nothing wrong with wanting to read a book then finding out it's not what you hoped it would be. Bound to happen every once in awhile.

I really wanted to read it too! It looked amazing and has good ratings. I'm going to keep trying to pushing myself to read it but I'm not sure I'm going to be able to finish this one.....

I am struggling too, and wonder if part of it is the time of year, at least for those who are celebrating holidays. I'm no longer sure I want to read something difficult right now.

There was no way I could put myself through another long book over the holidays - not even done with The Scarlet Letter yet!

I'm struggling too and it's such a comfort to know I'm not the only!

I just don't want to think that in more than 700 pages nothing is REALLY going to happen.
I thought that this book was written before "Crime and Punishment" (a masterpiece) but was surprised to find that it was long after it!
I'll do my best to finish at least for the sake of a group discussion :(

Chahrazad wrote: "I'm struggling too and it's such a comfort to know I'm not the only!

I just don't want to think that in more than 700 pages nothing is REALLY going to happen.
I thought that this book was written ..."

I struggled through book V (and book VI for that matter). I found myself falling asleep and waking up on top of the book. It was just so tedious. I have just started VII, however, and am enjoying the book once again! Do not give up, fellow readers! It get's better!

Chauncey wrote: "Chahrazad wrote: "I'm struggling too and it's such a comfort to know I'm not the only!

I just don't want to think that in more than 700 pages nothing is REALLY going to happen.
I thought that this..."

And here comes hope again :) thank you Chauncey!!!!

I think maybe it is more about the philosophy, than what happens. I admit it is tougher than a few of his other books. I'm biased because he is one of my favorite authors - but I believe he was one of the first authors (maybe the first?) to ask the kind of complex questions about God and religion that he asks in this novel. Also, I saw the three brothers as metaphors - I believe they were metaphors for the old Russia, the current Russia, and the future Russia. Any thoughts?

P.S. I'm new, and it has been a couple of years since I've read the book - so forgive me if I remember something wrong.

I hadn't thought about time periods of Russia as a metaphor, that's very interesting. Their viewpoints certainly reflect that. Hm, I'll have to remember that as I go through more philosophical sections.

I'm hoping that all of this will help me understand the motivation of characters later. The novel does start to pick up once we hit book 7, but I'm still waiting to see what reflection books 5 and 6 will have on the plot.

I got to the part of Ivan's "poem" last night and I'm seriously thinking of skipping those pages. Something I never do. I was curious to see what others thought of it. I was really moving along and enjoying it until this part.

This is beginning to put me in mind of a soap opera. the characters make great proclamations and build arguments then go "only joking" and claim the opposite. it's a bit annoying.

I actually rather enjoyed Ivan's poem, it's been one of the better sections so far.

Just finished book V. Am I finally approaching the start of the story, after 325 pages? Who knows.

Back to Ivan's poem. It reminded me of the Pontious Pilate sections in The Master and the Margharita.

Anastasia wrote: "I think maybe it is more about the philosophy, than what happens. I admit it is tougher than a few of his other books. I'm biased because he is one of my favorite authors - but I believe he was one..."

Never thought about that, interesting.
Well it definitely is a though part, but I didn't mind, it fits the book.

I am sorry but Ivan`s poem just killed me. I really liked the argument he made and sort of made me an atheist again (i am always unsure about God), but it was way too long for an actual conversation. And of course because Engish is my second language the archaic use of words made it really hard for me to read it. I even consider to read the hungarian translation but this way its easier to follow the conversation here. But i am glad that a book is getting better only one book to go. YAY

Phil wrote: "I actually rather enjoyed Ivan's poem, it's been one of the better sections so far."

I am with you. I found it very thought provoking. Then again it may just be me since I enjoy reading and pondering on theological works and ideas anyway. I found the ideas of what the Church had become by the time of The Inquisition, in actuality an enemy of Christ and the freedom in Him, very true. Also how he spoke of man as being most afraid of real freedom. Interesting ideas and very poignant I thought.

And it looks like I won't be finishing this book. I really tried, but I can't do it! Sorry guys :(

I just want to reinforce what others have noted above, that the story really picks up shortly after this section. I also struggled with this part the first time I read it, but I was so glad I pushed forward in the end. I am reading it a second time now, which is something I rarely do (especially with such a long book) and a reflection of how much I love this book.

I will say, though, this time especially, I found the philosophical discussion pretty interesting and thought provoking. Even as a Christian I sympathized with Ivan's point about the abused child...chilling.

I must be in a minority here because I found the philosophical discussions in both book V and VI very interesting and not boring at all. These two sections were very easy for me to read and go through.

I may be jaded because I read Atlas Shrugged earlier this year, and while it was good, BOY was it overstuffed with philosophy! I think after that I just got a little shell-shocked and try to stay away from an over-abundance of it. I understood the concepts being discussed and found parts of it interesting, but felt the sections carried on way too long and were repetitive. Maybe I just tried to read through it too fast, though, without really absorbing it.

Alana wrote: "I may be jaded because I read Atlas Shrugged earlier this year, and while it was good, BOY was it overstuffed with philosophy! I think after that I just got a little shell-shocked and try to stay a..."

Thanks for reminding me - I've been wanting to read Atlas Shrugged - maybe I'll wait for a while after this one though! I thought of skipping pages during Ivan's poem, and also wondered if I wasn't enjoying it because I was trying to read through it too fast. I enjoyed Zosima's philosophical ramblings later on, but Ivan's were just too much.

It's excellent, don't get me wrong, but it's nearly 1300 pages long. It is mostly story, though, with one HUGE section of philosophy. But even that section isn't too repetitive. It covers economy, religion, government, socialism, etc, some of which I agreed with, some I didn't. Whether you agree with her philosophies or not, it's a very interesting perspective. I found it especially interesting reading it right before the U.S. election, because the economical and social issues are exactly what we have been dealing with. I think Rand goes too far in one direction, there has to be a balance, of course, but it's still a point of view not often expressed well.

It's very different from the philosophical sections in B.K., though. In B.K. it's more philosophy with a little bit of story that doesn't always match, while in A.S. it's story that builds up to the big message of philosophy.

Alana wrote: "It's excellent, don't get me wrong, but it's nearly 1300 pages long. It is mostly story, though, with one HUGE section of philosophy. But even that section isn't too repetitive. It covers economy, ..."

That sounds great - now I really want to read it! I'll probably have to do a few shorter ones first though since I had challenged myself to reading 50 books this year and so far, because of B.K., haven't finished one yet.

It's ok: when you read long ones, you don't feel so bad about counting books that only have 150 pages :)