Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

My book Shadows Live Under Seashells has fulfilled its term with Amazons KDP program. I am now in the position of renewing with KDP or not. Since this is my first exposure to online book publication I am curious to see what other authors have done at this juncture. If you've been where I am please offer the the pro's and con's of your experieces renewing with KDP and/or the benefits/detriments of going elsewhere.

Any insights are greatly apprecaited. Thanks in advance.

...I am at a similar crossroads Allan ...My KDP Select finishes in January and I am not renewing. It's not that they are not an excellent service but that the restriction to eBook anywhere else is very rigid. Once I am free I will continue with Amazon.com for both paperback and Kindle books but will also "Indie" publish with other companies such as BookPal etc...it also means I can create an eBook right here at Goodreads. In actuality my books are doing better in paperback than kindle! Good luck with the decision making .

I did not renew, mainly because I have heard Enough Nook users complain about books with KDP Select not being available to them. It made sense to use it for the ability to list it for a promotional giveaway, but after that it just didn't seem worth it to potentially alienate part of my audience. My two cents... For whatever it's worth.

@Penny - Thank You.
@Jenelle - 3 books 6 Cents :) Thank You.

A follow-up: My KDP requirement expired in November (I was unaware) and now I'm into the next KDP term. I think I can still drop from the program as I haven't begun a promotion but I'm not entirely sure.

The only negative I have about to going outside Amazon for my ebook is having to reformat my manuscript. I've been told by others that many places do things differently and the "Amazon way" isn't necessarily the standard.

Each eBook format is slightly different it seems but usually a PDF file will translate into the same thing Allan. There are free programmes to download that help with this and of course whoever you approach to reformat your kindlebook will assist you too. Amazon are not really that different to other formats ...they just have a high profile in the industry !
Your KDP account is usually for 90 days so go into your account and click the box that lets you remove yourself from the programme ...you will have to see out the current 90 days though. Good luck!

I completely understand the 'knee jerk' reaction of not wanting to publish one's book in one location..and to have the ability to publish for the Nook or Smashwords..but having done both, I have to say, I've never had the sales and support that I've had at Amazon.
I did a one day free promo for my first book in my fantasy series The Persephane Pendrake Chronicles and in that one day got 1770 downloads, exactly half US and half UK. Now what you need to understand is that Amazon sees those downloads as a 'sale'..and so sends every person an email to ask them to write a review. Not to mention that now 1770 people have the book in their hands to read. Where can you get that kind of coverage at '0' cost? The next day I sold 30 books. And many are now borrowing it..and I get paid for that.
So just my experience..but I think as a new author, it's the best deal I can get.

Lady wrote: "I completely understand the 'knee jerk' reaction of not wanting to publish one's book in one location..and to have the ability to publish for the Nook or Smashwords..but having done both, I have to..."

My experiece was stunning as well. The first promo I ran yielded nearly 4,000 downloads (2 day Wed-Thurs)), the second only 110 (2 days, fri-sat), and the third (1 day - Wed) roughly 1000 and, like you, my best sales were on the heels of those promo's. If Penny is right and I have to sit though these 90 days, I can think of worse things that could happen.

Thanks for the input. :)

Glad to help, Allan. I, too was really hesitant to do this, but truly, it was a good choice.
Just a note, other authors have found the weekends are not the best for promo..I agree. Wed, Thurs, Friday are the best.
Cheers,
LE

...your ststs are amazing Lady Ellen ...and perhaps the genre is also "high hit rate" too. I don't actually feel "knee jerk" quite described my view simply as a new Indie options are important I guess ...need less to say removing myself from KDP Select doesn't remove me from the kindle or book programme.
It's a hard choice to make.

It is, Penny, I know. But when you're in the KDP program, your book is up for borrowing by Amazon Prime members..and they are in the hundreds of thousands. It's estimated that Amazon has some 2 or 3 hundreds of thousands of credit cards on file..where people just do the 'one click' or borrow thing. You get a portion of the fund Amazon puts up for the borrowing..right now it's $700,000..but for December it's been doubled to 1.5 million. And depending on how many times your book gets borrowed..you get a piece of that for every borrow. In Nov. it worked out to over $2.00..more than your royalties at 75% if your book was priced at $2.99. This month it will be about double. Hahah..I'm NOT an agent for Amazon..I'm all about the best deal for the author after 'sweating little beads of blood' through the forehead as we write. But, seriously..this is really good for us.
And they are fighting to get the best deals going forward with all ebook distributors out there.
Anyway, for now. A great situation. They truly want you to do well. As my book was downloaded..all of sudden the emails I was getting daily..and we all get those...had my book on top! Now how many people saw that and responded. I don't know..but sales were most definitely better those days. Again..at '0' investment by me. I'm sold. For now, anyway.

I too started out with Amazon KDP. As a newbie, I thought it was the best course and for some, it obviously is, but I opted out so that I could publish on Smashwords, too. Smashwords then made my books (There are five now) available on B&N, Sony, Apple and others as well as on their site.
Amazon sales haven't suffered and my books are now available in all ebook formats. I'm looking at other small ebook publishers as well.
Smashwords has a free book available that takes you step by step through the process and was very helpful. I even reformatted my Amazon editions. Ironically, the book is available on Amazon.
My advice is to experiment. You're in this for the long haul, so see what works best. You can opt out of any of them or opt back in.

Jacqueline..I too did all of this..had my books on all the various platforms, but my sales were never that great.
To me, it's about getting seen, people just don't know you're there without exposure, so at the start the Amazon KDP does that with their huge traffic and the free promo thing. There are a ton of sites and Facebook pages which you can list on, when you're having a free day or three, whatever. That made a massive difference for me. I was on Smashwords for 2 years and basically...nothing to speak of... just something to consider.

...hmmm it's interesting that Jacqueline and I share a similar experience ...I had expected Amazon to be a greater influence truth be told ...as my self-publishing company is CreateSpace, Amazon their parent company I had expected more from the deal, I am included in all the 'channels' they offer too. I sell my own book in paper format and it's doing well but distribution is the toughest call.
When we withdraw from the KDP select we can return if we wish but again our books, both kindle and paperback remain with Amazon ...just not exclusively.

Yep, get that. But one just doesn't have one's book anywhere without doing our own marketing. All I'm saying is that the KDP programme offers more exposure opportunities.
When I do the 'free' days, I list in an extensive list of places. Here is what I start with..
http://www.rachelleayala.com/p/promo-...
It's helped me a lot. I also belong to the Number One Book Club, an amazing group of over 4500 Kindle authors..we help each other, give honest reviews of books we personally have an interest in. It's such a lovely community. You can see the start of if here: http://budurl.com/KindleRev Anyway, just trying to help here, obviously everyone has to make their own choices on what seems to 'fit' for them.
Cheers,
LE

My first book has been out since September. I opted for the select program and think it's pretty wonderful. My free days have gotten visibility for the book that I never could have gotten without them, and resulted in visible leaps in sales. I can't know if all the people who "borrowed" the book through the lending library would have bought it otherwise, but I tend to think not. Since I get almost the same royalties for a borrow as a sale, I'm happy for the additional outlet. My first 90-day stint just ended and I've opted to stay in the program.

...Oh believe me as an Indie both pre and post publications I market extensively Lady Ellen. I've been published since July and Book 2 is about to go to print after final proof. Thank you for your links though I will certainly take a look at them.
My personal challenge as such is to find a distributor here in Australia to free myself up to just write.

Good information ...Penny Reilly

I didn't renew, because of the exclusivity and because it appeared that Amazon's more recent algorithms made free downloads less useful. My book sales fell off a cliff within a few weeks of my leaving KDP Select, and I have wondered if the almighty algorithms include some built-in penalty for leaving the program.

Karen wrote: "My book sales fell off a cliff within a few weeks of my leaving KDP Select, and I have wondered if the almighty algorithms include some built-in penalty for leaving the program. ..."

My fear exactly. I was making modest, but steady, sales of around twenty per month for my one book. I left the KDP Select programme a couple of months ago. I have made six sales in that time (and none so far this month).

I recently read this from a blog post on e-publishing: "the 'also boughts' and 'top sellers' also heavily favor books in the KDP Select program"

Yikes. Penalty indeed. Invisibility. On top of this, I haven't sold any via Smashwords in this time, and you have to wait months before getting sales reports from B&N, etc.. I'm going to stick it out for a bit (as it took so long to work my way through the Smashwords process). I feel I might end up going back to KDP Select.

I've just completed my first weekend promo with KDPS and was quite disappointed. I had just over 1000 downloads and sales so far have been about what they were before joining.

The plus I can see is that my book was briefly at 13 in Horror (free) but this did not translate into real sales afterwards. I think you may be right when you say that the weekend is not good and probably not this close to Xmas.

I'll give it another go midweek in the New Year and see if the theory is valid.

Allan J. wrote: "@Penny - Thank You.
@Jenelle - 3 books 6 Cents :) Thank You.

A follow-up: My KDP requirement expired in November (I was unaware) and now I'm into the next KDP term. I think I can still drop from t..."

Nope. It's auto-renew, so you're stuck until the next 90 days. One of the *many* reasons I didn't go with KDP-S was the auto-renew without asking whether you want to opt back in ... and I think Amazon counts on that.

Big thanks to the person up-thread who remarked about those who use non-Kindle readers, BTW; I am one of those folks. It is indeed a slap in the face to part of your audience to go KDP-S, because it tells the consumer they are not important to you.

Discoverability is key; if readers can't find you for their device, they are not going to read you. People don't make consumer decisions like which reader to buy and then want to be told "Oh, just download the app to your computer or phone."

Lady wrote: "I completely understand the 'knee jerk' reaction of not wanting to publish one's book in one location..and to have the ability to publish for the Nook or Smashwords..but having done both, I have to..."

Everyone's experience is different, of course, but I sell 100:1 via Smashwords outlets compared to Amazon (and that is not a typo). It would not be worth it to me to give up the huge ePub audience I have on the off-chance that the .mobi versions will do radically better.

Hi JD: Did you promote on all the free kindle sites? I know that really helped me.

(re message 21) Sharon, do you do something special to market for Smashwords? I've had minimal sales there, though the coupon codes are very handy for reviewers.

Sharon wrote: "Lady wrote: "I completely understand the 'knee jerk' reaction of not wanting to publish one's book in one location..and to have the ability to publish for the Nook or Smashwords..but having done bo..."

Karen wrote: "(re message 21) Sharon, do you do something special to market for Smashwords? I've had minimal sales there, though the coupon codes are very handy for reviewers."

Interestingly enough, the answer is no. My main sales are through B&N and Sony, and I do *nothing* to promote there. Smashwords' extended distribution is the main advantage to remaining there for me. Because of them, I have books on WHSmith in the UK and FNAC in France (via Kobo, which is via Smashwords) just to name a couple.

I have an active FB fan page presence with fans from all over the world. Perhaps that is why? It's hard to say.

I was unhappy with the results of my 3-month try with KDP Select on my debut novel. Almost 1,000 people downloaded the title, but it didn't generate any sales or activity in the lending library. None. Zero. Zip. Nada.

I didn't wish to give away more copies without any sales, so I didn't use the last few give-away days.

It bothered me to not make the book available to the other markets, and I fear using KDP Select harmed my debut novel sales. I had read so many glowing posts from other writers who generate many sales using KDP Select, and that convinced me to try it. Mia culpa.

KDP Select was not a good marketing choice for me. I'm not likely to use KDP select again.

I tried Select in the early part of the year and was also disappointed with the result. Thousands of free books were downloaded and paid sales did show a slight, short-lived increase. However, the increase in sales did not make up for the harm done to my sales at other outlets. Nine months later and I have still to get back to earlier levels. I find Wattpad a much better site for promoting books. You can chose to upload part or all of a book and you know that only genuine readers will download.
Select has caused a boom bubble in Indie publishing and, like all bubbles, it will eventually burst and the authors will suffer. Until then the reading public are being drowned in crap and scams. Amazon need to drop the Select program.

As much as Amazon's platform is a good one with wide acceptance, I chose not to go KDP Select. I wanted to distribute my books to the widest possible market, so I enroll my Kindle versions with Amazon Digital, but I also make mobi and all other eFormats available through Smashwords.com, who also distributes to several additional eBook online retailers including Apple and Sony. Now, Smashwords is my go-to venue for first editions of any ebook, followed by Amazon. I am especially happy with the coupon generation applet with Smashwords, so I can always have a time-limited discount (or freebie) coupon at hand for giveaways as I choose. Amazon's increased royalty wasn't worth the restrictions in distribution to me.

Lady wrote: "Yep, get that. But one just doesn't have one's book anywhere without doing our own marketing. All I'm saying is that the KDP programme offers more exposure opportunities.
When I do the 'free' d..."

Can you help me with the site for Number One Book Club? It says you need to be invited to join.How is that accomplished Lady?

Give me your email address and I'll invite you.. I meant to say..my real name is Deb Baker

See you on the other side
Cheers,
Deb

Harold..I think if you use this link..you just put your email in there and then the video comes up with Ryan explaining it all. You can sign up right under the video.
http://budurl.dom/KindleRev

Cheers,
Deb

thank you, but isn't this just a link to his book on Amazon? I don't see any club; only another marketing item designed to sell his book.Am I wrong?

No the book is a giveaway..and it's pretty good. Once you put your email in..then you see a video explaining the system and the club..it's definitely worth watching.
Deb

Lady wrote: "No the book is a giveaway. ..."

I tried signing up to this a couple of weeks ago. It said the book was a giveaway, but once he'd got my email address, there was a message saying the giveaway ended the day before and I now had to buy the book ... which I did not. A tad annoying.

Hi Natasha: Hmmm didn't know that. If you want to pm me, I'll send you a copy. It was free for quite a while.

Lady wrote: "Hi Natasha: Hmmm didn't know that. If you want to pm me, I'll send you a copy. It was free for quite a while."

Done. Thanks so much :-)

Ok..super. On it's way.

I've put ebooks on select and not on select. The ebook I did best with on Amazon was the one not on select. It got to number one in the paid UK poetry charts and stayed in the top ten for 2 months and top twenty for nearly three. I made decent sales in the US kindle marketplace too and also did well via Smashwords on Nook and other places.

So I have decided that free offers via Kindle is not necessarily the way to go.

I'll stick to word of mouth, twitter, facebook, Goodreads and other online places to spread the word and trust to Amazon in its general marketing strategy from now on. I'm in no way convinced that select has any real long term benefit.

The freebies may result in downloads but it doesn't result in reads in most cases and in the cases it does result in reads I suspect those people might have paid to buy anyway. I think it is better to price an ebook at 99c than give it away.

A.J. wrote: "I tried Select in the early part of the year and was also disappointed with the result. Thousands of free books were downloaded and paid sales did show a slight, short-lived increase. However, the ..."

Do you sell books via Wattpad? Or do you just share what you're working on, and hope people want to read more? Can I post partial books (like a chapter or two), and direct people to where they can get the book for purchase?

Rebekah wrote: "Do you sell books via Wattpad? Or do you just share what you're working on, and hope people want to read more? Can I post partial books (like a chapter or two), and direct people to where they can get the book for purchase? "

Wattpad seems mainly to be for teenagers who enjoy sharing their writing with each other. It's often not to a professional standard, in my experience.

I'm not aware of having sold any books via Wattpad. You can post one or many pages, or yes, a chapter or two. I have an external link to my website up there, but you could add a link to Amazon instead.

Rebekah wrote: "A.J. wrote: "I tried Select in the early part of the year and was also disappointed with the result. Thousands of free books were downloaded and paid sales did show a slight, short-lived increase. ..."

Rebekah wrote: "A.J. wrote: "I tried Select in the early part of the year and was also disappointed with the result. Thousands of free books were downloaded and paid sales did show a slight, short-lived increase. ..."

Michele wrote: "I've put ebooks on select and not on select. The ebook I did best with on Amazon was the one not on select. It got to number one in the paid UK poetry charts and stayed in the top ten for 2 month..."

I have two whole books on Wattpad and samples of my others. The two whole books are also my best-selling books on other sites. An Evil Shadow was in the top 100 with Sony for the best part of two years. They took off about the same time as I posted them on Wattpad.

There are a lot of teenagers writing on Wattpad, but there are also a lot of heavyweight writers of repute. It's up to you who you reach out to. I am constantly amazed that many of the readers who rave about my books are teenage girls and young women. I would have thought my genre would have appealed to an older reader. Just proves you should never make assumptions.

A.J. wrote: "I have two whole books on Wattpad and samples of my others. The two whole books are also my best-selling books on other sites. An Evil Shadow was in the top 100 with Sony for the best part of two years. They took off about the same time as I posted them on Wattpad.

There are a lot of teenagers writing on Wattpad, but there are also a lot of heavyweight writers of repute. It's up to you who you reach out to. I am constantly amazed that many of the readers who rave about my books are teenage girls and young women. I would have thought my genre would have appealed to an older reader. Just proves you should never make assumptions. "

An author I've been in contact with on GR for a few months directed me to Wattpad some time ago—although I've only been posting there for a few days at most. I have no idea if sharing stories on that website would bring in potential sales. But I've been wondering how useful it may be all the same, in terms of building relationships and potential later readership. (I've also often wondered if waiting until you self-publish your book to advertise it is a good strategy...)

What's your experience with that, if I may ask? (Not only A.J.; other people in this thread too.)

Any writer will tell you that platform building should start the day you begin your first manuscript. Wattpad is great for developing a readership, just ask the author of Fifty Shades. James started her books as fan fiction and feedback from early readers helped determine the path her books would take. There have also been a number of writers who have been offered publishing contracts based on their Wattpad postings.

Thank you, A.J. At any rate, it seems very logical. I'm terrible at advertising my own stuff (which is even more of a shame, considering I studied marketing techniques years ago -_-).

So far my story isn't completed yet—well, half of it is, but I'm struggling with the other half to make its set of events more exciting, and properly build tension while balancing it with the proper amount of 'revelations'. I'm not too sure it's the right genre for the usual Wattpad audience, from what I've understood, but... I guess any start *is* at least a start, right?