Horror Aficionados discussion

Well said. Additionally, ghosts have the benefit of the incorporeal. They can influence an environment while a person has no ability to harm or even touch them. Not being able to defend yourself is a scary thing.

Ghosts are such a deeply imbedded part of our culture. Even if you don't believe in an afterlife, it's hard to avoid getting creeped out when you have a childhood full of ghost stories and other tales. Look at different cultures - their ghosts all have distinct properties and people's fears change accordingly.

Ghosts combine not only our fear of helplessness, but our fears of death, darkness, and the unknown as well. A good ghost never shows itself too much. Just the fact that it might be there is often enough to freak people out.

I think that's another part of what makes ghosts scarier.

Demons are just Evil, a part of a simple black and white universe, malevolent, out to torment us, can be dispelled by Good.

Ghosts are not evil. The danger they pose is caused by losing touch with their humanity. They exist in a gray world. And worst of all, we might become one through no fault of our own.

Robb wrote: "I think that's another part of what makes ghosts scarier.

Demons are just Evil, a part of a simple black and white universe, malevolent, out to torment us, can be dispelled by Good.

Ghosts are n..."

That's a good point. Demons, for the most part, were never human. Ghosts once were. It's the same reason fallen angels are so intriguing - they were once something so much more. It's fascinating how elaborate some of the rituals are in different cultures when it came to burial. People have been absolutely terrified of turning into ghosts or the undead for millennia.

Another problem with demons; belief in them depends on religion. My faith does not recognize hell, satan or demons so I have no fear of any of these things and try to avoid exorcism/possession themed books and movies.

Ghosts, on the other hand, even if you don't entirely believe in them, are still intriguing to think about and read about. They are just more effective at suspending one's disbelief.

In all honesty, I have never encountered a ghost yet I always watch shows about them such as Ghost Hunters and Paranormal Witness. I'm one of those people who has an open mind about them yet if I do ever come face to face with one I'd probably be freaked the f*&k out!

Misty wrote: "Holly wrote: "Another problem with demons; belief in them depends on religion. My faith does not recognize hell, satan or demons so I have no fear of any of these things and try to avoid exorcism/..."

Misty;

I am a traditional Celtic pagan. My faith has no doctrine on the afterlife, so ghosts are a possibility, we just don't know for sure. I do not have the christian belief in god and satan; which definitely messes up the whole satan/demonic possesion theme in films, especially where belief in those entities is called for.

For example, the recent movie The Conjuring: I loved the first hour, when the movie seemed to be about a haunted house, but then they brought in the demonologist, people started sliding across the floors and up the walls and I fast-forwarded through the last half of the movie.....I had completely lost interest.

An agnostic can suspend disbelief for ghosts, especially if they are covered as unexplained phenomena. Accepting the existence of a ghost does not mean accepting any baggage attached to any specific afterlife interpretation.

Demons are defined by evil, which means to buy into them, you also have to buy into a cosmology that includes static Good and Evil forces. Even the most secular interpretations feed on negativity and hate faith, which implies the natural universe has these things in it as actual forces.

So maybe neither requires a specific religion, but demons definitely require a religious worldview, while ghosts only require openness to the idea of a soul or some kind of imprint left by a sentient being.
Neither is really something I believe in, but the ghost requires far less of a jump, and thus can more easily get by me while I am distracted.
Plus there is almost always implicit in the existence of evil creatures the certainty that good beats them.

If I saw a demon? Well..I'd probably be freaked out even more but if it tried to harm me then it is on!

I found this very interesting~ http://www.unmuseum.org/ghosts.htm

Ghosts explained with sooo much more sense than the
belief in other explanations. ;]

Remember throughout history~lack of knowlege/proof=superstion/legend/myth.

Mankind also used to believe that the world was flat,lol!

Misty wrote: "Thank you for explaining that. So if you don't believe in God or Satan, how does that balance out with good and evil. Or is that just a different belief? Like for example: There is good and evil, j..."

Misty;

For us there are no exterior sources of good and evil; it is all about free will. You either choose to do right or wrong, and humans who choose wrongly are the source of all evil in this world.

I think the big difference is in believing in Good and Evil or good and evil.

There are real life examples we could all agree as being evil: murder, rape, purposely putting money or power over the well being of others...
The question is whether these things are Evil.
Is there something behind them, like an Evil force? Is the person who does them inherently Evil?

Demons belong in that world where Evil exists rather than just evil. It's a viewpoint many people have, and it may actually be the way most of us are socialized to see the world...
But for those of us who see evil as mundane, they just aren't real.

Ghosts scare us by being part of the unknown and manifesting as the things we barely sense around us at any time, or as dreams or hallucinations.
Demons are motivated by hatred of humanity and manifest as spiritual corruption.

I can see where demons could be scary, especially if used subtly. The notion of our morals or thoughts being twisted or taken is universally scary. It's why alien parasites and zombies and sometimes vampires work.
But too often the writers who use demons have a big religious axe to grind... so there's a lot of the slippery slope stuff-- corrupting a person toward evil makes them Evil. And too often people of character are immune... and naturally we all like to pretend we are people of character.
Rarely are demons ever used outside of a morality play. IF you are on the inside of the author's vision, you feel safe. If you are on the outside, you find it laughable or preachy.

I have no idea! I just know that since the thing would be terrorizing me I would want to at least attempy to fight back while in fear, doubt I'd be successful though!

Most of what scares me in a writing is dependent upon how well the author has delevoped his character. If I "feel" and identify with a character, I'll get that prickling of the skin when something devesating happens to him/her--whether it be a demon or a ghost or a returning ex (which is usually demonic anyway).

Misty wrote: "Justin wrote: "I have no idea! I just know that since the thing would be terrorizing me I would want to at least attempy to fight back while in fear, doubt I'd be successful though!"

LOL reading t..."

That's definitely something to consider. At least you can fight a zombie.

Why are ghosts scary?
I guess it depends on what scares you; we're all a bit different. Personally, the ghosts that have scared me the most were in the Shining, Hell House, M.R. James's short stories, and the movies The Grudge and The Ring.

So for me, I'd have to analyze what it was those stories had in common and try and write about that. Maybe the unknown (always scarier than the known), an unreasoning and unstoppable hatred for the living, a distinct sense of a force that is alien to humanity (the scariest ghosts aren't dead Aunt Lucille with her unfinished business that keeps her from crossing over; the scariest ghosts are the ones that hate us and wish us harm and we have absolutely no idea why or how to stop them or save ourselves). So, yeah, to sum up for me: alien, hatred for the living, unstoppable, unknowable.

For someone else it could be (and probably is)completely different.

William wrote: "Why are ghosts scary?
I guess it depends on what scares you; we're all a bit different. Personally, the ghosts that have scared me the most were in the Shining, Hell House, M.R. James's short stor..."

I don't even need them to be hateful or malevolent; I am terrified by the thought of a bitchy ghost. You know; the kind of ghost that might never manifest as an apparition, but would just mess with you.....make you question the sanctity of your home and your own sanity.

William wrote: "Why are ghosts scary?
I guess it depends on what scares you; we're all a bit different. Personally, the ghosts that have scared me the most were in the Shining, Hell House, M.R. James's short stor..."

I think it's fascinating that you mention The Ring and the Grudge. I've found that a lot of my friends, who aren't afraid of Western-style ghosts, were terrified of the ghosts in those movies. Could the familiarity we have with ghosts being taking the edge off them?

L.G. wrote: "William wrote: "Why are ghosts scary?
I guess it depends on what scares you; we're all a bit different. Personally, the ghosts that have scared me the most were in the Shining, Hell House, M.R. Ja..."

Maybe in the West we've become accustomed to the concept of ghosts being recently departed with unfinished business that keeps them from crossing over into the next phase of existence. So, all we need to do is to help them along on their journey, and voila!

What I loved about Samara in The Ring, was the moment when the mother tries to soothe her little boy by telling him that they helped 'free' Samara, at which point we find out that that was a crazy, crazy thing to do. Samara was evil long before she was a ghost. That moment gave me chills.

In the West, we grow accustomed to fiction that plays to our individualist sensibilities. At least from the comfort of our couch or bed, we can judge the victims as stupid, immoral, overly ambitious, obsessive, too curious, or many other things that our insane Protestant ancestors determined were deserving of death-- and some unthinking part of our brains that lights up when we watch movies shares these judgments, even if we would never call these things deserving of death in real life-- we do it half the time.
In most Western fiction, most of the suffering and death is "deserved" in that subconscious frame of mind, or it's a type of martyrdom or something tragically symbolic... All of that makes us feel comfortable, especially in the movies, which lack the nuance of books (good books make us judge the victims less by building up a sense of their humanity).

The better ghost stories, and a lot of non-Western horror, does not play up that morality play stuff. Thins are not under our individual control. We are not destined to survive because we are good or clever or whatnot. Whether you know the urban legend or not, looking at the video just once sets up a chain of events beyond the individual's control (for the most part).
I think that particularly scares Westerners because it takes us out of the comfort zone.
And most Western horror that's good is good because it breaks from the "deserving" frame. Stephen King, for example, mostly follows the Western script... but occasionally he doesn't, and he also makes sure the characters are fleshed out enough to blunt our nasty judgments. Minus that, they would have no effect.
But when you have a story that completely dismisses our individualist Puritan biases, it can sometimes be too much. It's horror on a higher level.

The ghost isn't with god. The ghost is godless. If there is a ghost, then there is no god; or god is simply more trivial, mercurial and cruel than you thought. That is the underlying and unspoken horror of the ghost story: the dead are not in heaven or hell, but tormented on Earth with nowhere to go.

N. wrote: "The ghost isn't with god. The ghost is godless. If there is a ghost, then there is no god; or god is simply more trivial, mercurial and cruel than you thought. That is the underlying and unspoken h..."

That is a good point. The ghost is something that should not be, at least by most of our Western belief systems (whether Judeo-Christian or rational-scientific), beings that throw our world into chaos.

I can watch shows on ghosts and even read about them with no problem or issue in the possibility of being scared. However...If I ever saw one in real life? While I'd like to think I'd brush it off or be like 'hey..sup?' I wouldn't, I would be scared! lol. I'd be freaked out. The idea of ghosts doesn't seem scary I suppose until you've actually encountered one for yourself.

I have known people that have actually encountered "ghosts'. There are many people that do not believe in them, but then there are people that have encountered them. The only real movie is the one for the people that encounter them every day.

It depends on what it is and what it does.

Many believe that some ghosts who die a violent death or from unnatural causes such as suicide appear because they cannot accept they are dead. Many of these though appear to be benign.

However if it inhumane i.e. demonic then you would have every reason to be fearful. Avoid Ouija boards would be my advice on that!

I wish I could remember the name of a book I read years ago about ghosts and hauntings..........the theory is that ghosts are not the spirits of dead human beings, but incorporeal elemental beings that have always been a part of this earth since before humanity. The supernatural beings in Peter Straub's Ghost Story seem to fall into this category.

They aren't living and the simple idea of seeing something that's no longer living is chilling.

Holly wrote: "I wish I could remember the name of a book I read years ago about ghosts and hauntings..........the theory is that ghosts are not the spirits of dead human beings, but incorporeal elemental beings ..."

I think this could be true in some instances, Holly. I don't doubt there may be all sorts of entities we are unaware of, even science lends itself to this possibility.

Aaron(Everlast) wrote: "Ghosts seem to have more power than we humans do."
Yeah, what's up with that? Did they have those powers when they were alive?
If a ghost is a human minus their body wouldn't they only be weaker?
My criticism is directed at all those telekinetic powers ghosts seem to have in fiction. Not saying they wouldn't be scary to run into.

There is a point which has not been explored yet, in this discussion. Death attracts death. From the very earliest twinklings of our intelligence we have known that dead things bring death. Maybe it was a scavenger that caught the scent of a carcass, and found a buffet, or disease spreading from purification of dead flesh, that killed many. Whatever the causes we learned that dead things attract death.

Perry wrote: "Aaron(Everlast) wrote: "Ghosts seem to have more power than we humans do."
Yeah, what's up with that? Did they have those powers when they were alive?
If a ghost is a human minus their body wouldn'..."

I would say it depends on the author's reasoning as to how ghosts exist. If their ghosts are made up of electrical impulses, it makes sense that they could interfere with other impulses, technology etc. But if they're a residual emotional imprint like the Stone Tape theory, they should just be a recording of their human personality (maybe some changes could be argued if they are somewhat sentient and have had experiences over time), and 'extra' powers don't make sense.

It is the fear of something being there in the room with you that you can't see. Watching you. That is creepy. Just last night my daughter and I were having a conversation and she was holding our cat. All of a sudden our cat perked up and looked into the hallway. 100% focused on something we could not see. It freaked us both out especially my daughter because it was her room across the hall.

J. wrote: "There is a point which has not been explored yet, in this discussion. Death attracts death. From the very earliest twinklings of our intelligence we have known that dead things bring death. Maybe i..."

Wow! That's a real creepy point you raise, but also it sorta makes sense. Death attracts death. Scary!

In my humble opinion...

I don't believe ghost exist. What people see as a ghost is actually a Demon. Negative or POSITIVE experiences, that is not the spirit of a little boy or your dear old grandma. That there "ghost" is a Demon.

I've had lots of ghostly experiences. Including a full body apparition when I was about 9 years old. I thought it was a real man, but I followed right after him through a doorway, and the room was empty with no other exits. I don't believe in demons. I think ghosts are like angels of our ancestors that visit every now and then or else spirits trapped here for some reason. Some benign. Some not so much. Definitely agree, No Ouija Boards.

Jan wrote: "I've had lots of ghostly experiences. Including a full body apparition when I was about 9 years old. I thought it was a real man, but I followed right after him through a doorway, and the room was ..."

I've had a lot of supernatural experiences as well and I totally agree with you. I think some people are afraid of what they don't understand and that leads to either skepticism or the belief that everything is evil. Of course, there's no concrete evidence that anything exists so all we have to go off is personal experiences. Mine have been extremely positive, but I can't deny that there's always that initial wave of unease that something is in the room with me and I have no idea who or what it is, why it's there and what it wants - if anything. Some would argue that interacting with 'ghosts' is down to imagination or coincidence, but that's another topic altogether!

I honestly have had a few paranormal experiences but I agree that there is not much to be scared of a ghost. If anything I thirst for the paranormal and interacting with ghosts sounds exciting. It makes me wonder how ghosts work and would it be possible to contact anyone who is dead. I am an atheist but I do believe that ghosts exist and that maybe there is some sort of mirrored world where ghosts haunt the world. I don't know about ghosts being evil, it really depends on what ghosts are capable of. And even if you are some sort of Christian if I'm right evil feeds off fear so not being scared is really just gonna put you in a safer position

I think it also depends on the personality and characteristics of the person before they died. If someone was less than pleasant or troubled throughout their life then, chances are, they're going to be a pain in the a** as a supernatural entity! I'm not religious either, I'm just going off experiences and what I've learned. My friend is a paranormal investigator and he has some eye-opening stories, so I firmly believe that there is more than one plane of existence where spirits roam side by side with us. I do accept the possibility of demons, but I don't think they should be confused with the innocent residual energy of a person.

Well said Rae. If they were troubling or vengeful during life it'll make them feared in death as a ghost because that's how they were and why they are still around. Some of us get scared at the sight of any ghost whether they are friendly or not.