Time Travel discussion

The Book
The Kronos Interference

GoodReads Blurb: When physicist Jacob Newman is pulled from his family, his job, and his whole life to investigate a strange vessel discovered at the bottom of the South Pacific, he finds evidence of time travel, along with implications that a judgment day against mankind is imminent. But it isn’t until he cracks the time travel technology and uncovers a startling link to his own family history that he undertakes a dangerous mission back to 1924 to kill Adolf Hitler and undo a horrific episode of Earth’s violent past. The results are catastrophic, and soon he discovers much darker forces working against him—forces he must overcome if he hopes to save humanity and see his family again.

Written in the vein of the late Michael Crichton, James Rollins, and similar authors who inject high concept plots with little-known historical facts and a touch of cutting-edge science, The Kronos Interference offers international intrigue, fast-paced action, and plenty of twists and turns. The book received the coveted starred review from Kirkus Reviews, who called it "impressively original" and a "tour de force."

The Authors
Edward Miller and J.B. Manas (a member of our Time Travel group)

When to Read
December 20, 2012 - January 20, 2013

Where to Buy
*Amazon.com (Kindle edition only $2.99)
*A list of other places to buy

Spoilers
Please avoid talking about spoilers without using a spoiler cut. You can make a spoiler cut by following the html directions in the "(some html is ok)" link above the comment box.

Book Club Questions
Everyone is welcome to contribute questions for the group. I'll put a master list here as we go along.

Pre-Reading Questions:
1. One of the main themes of this book seems cliché: time traveling to assassinate/stop Hitler. But have you read many time travel books with this theme?

2. In a time traveling scenario where you could change history, how likely (on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the greatest) would you be to try to stop Hitler?

3. Do you think that time travelers would do more harm or more good by trying to change major historical events?

Post-Reading Questions
1. It seems that in much of the time travel fiction I have read that when someone goes back to change the past, the resulting change to the future is (view spoiler)[typically worse as a result and so the protagonist must go back and fix it. Are there any stories out there in which changing the past made the future better? (hide spoiler)]

2. Having finished the book, are you expecting a sequel? If so, how much would you be looking forward to reading it? Otherwise, do you feel the book was standalone enough, no need for sequels?

3. Did you think that the (view spoiler)[supernatural (hide spoiler)] ending was appropriate or took away from your enjoyment of the book?

4. Which possible scenario is better? (view spoiler)[Destruction of the U.S. or no war with homelessness (hide spoiler)]? WHO has the right to determine?

Q&A With the Authors
http://popculturezoopress.com/q-a-wit...

I read this book back in July and will revisit it as we discuss. If anyone's interested in my review of the book, you can find it here: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/.... Tej's review is here: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/.... Both of us found it to be a real page-turner.

Pre-Reading Question 1:
One of the main themes of this book seems cliché: time traveling to assassinate/stop Hitler. But have you read many time travel books with this theme?

Pre-Reading Question 2:
In a time traveling scenario where you could change history, how likely (on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the greatest) would you be to try to stop Hitler?

Pre-Reading Question 3
Do you think that time travelers would do more harm or more good by trying to change major historical events?

While the subject of time travel to assassinate Adolph Hitler seems as if it's a time travel cliché, I'm only able to think of one other time travel book that touches on this theme, a book by one of our other group member aptly entitled The Assassination of Adolf Hitler. I was quite surprised to realize that it's not as common of a theme as you'd think. It certainly wouldn't be an easy task to accomplish. I think the best way to do it would be to make sure his parents never met. That would be the cleanest cut of all. However, I don't think I'd be likely to try to do it at all. There are just too many things that would be changed in the world as a result. While I detest wars, genocides, and plagues, I think that the world's population would be out of control without them. I would never actively choose to have those horrible things happen, but I think that I'd also never actively choose to take any of those events away. Good can come from bad just as well as bad can come from bad. I'd certainly never change any bad part of my own life because I am who I am today as a result. The lessons that I learned are lessons that I needed to learn. Perhaps it's not a popular opinion, but it's mine. And I surely hope that me or the people I love or any of you are never the victim of such a war, genocide, or plague. But if it happens, we'll cope and become a stronger world as a result.

That really is surprising! It is a theme often filmed however, which I can recall at least 1 example of...wait only one? I'm sure I...gosh, why did we have this perception? The one example I can think of is a Twilight episode which I posted about in the TV series thread a while back...an excellent episode it was too.

Would I try to stop Hitler if given the opportunity to go back in time? No. I say that with a heavy heart but with no hesitation. If we not had Hitler doing what he did then, we would have someone else doing what Hitler did at some point later. See, unfortunately, the nature of humanity evolves and learns mostly by tragedies and mistakes. Prevention is not humanity's strong point. Indivuals may be gifted with such thoughts and hindsight but not humanity as a collective whole or at least not the people in power. When the Titanic sunk, on then was safety protocols improved, policies tigthened, ship designs improved.

Even natural disasters are a necessity to learn from as we find ways to improve ways of prediction and early evacuations. Take the recent Hurricane Sandy for example, Fatalities would havve been 10-100 times more if complacency wasnt exposed in previous Hurricane disasters such as in New Orleans.

Basically, travelling back in time to prevent tragedies and murders, not only effectively postpone tragedies and deaths but they surpress humanity's education, increasing ignorance.

Amy wrote: "Pre-Reading Question 1:
One of the main themes of this book seems cliché: time traveling to assassinate/stop Hitler. But have you read many time travel books with this theme?..."

I may need help from Tej on this one, but didn't book one of TimeRiders deal with Hitler in some way. If I remember correctly, someone steals a time travel device in order to prevent Hitler from dying/being killed, thus changing the future to one in which the U.S. is invaded and overtaken by the Nazis. An interesting twist on the go-back-in-time-to-stop-a-madman theme.

John wrote: "I may need help from Tej on this one, but didn't book one of TimeRiders deal with Hitler in some way..."

Oh you're right, John. It certainly did. How can I have forgotten that! With a fine twist in the tale too.

Tej wrote: "That really is surprising! It is a theme often filmed however, which I can recall at least 1 example of...wait only one? I'm sure I...gosh, why did we have this perception? The one example I can..."

While I'd love to hold this magical, positive view of humanity learning from its mistakes, unfortunately, I can't. Hitler's actions certainly haven't prevented subsequent genocides, just as Native American genocide didn't help stop Hitler from committing his acts. From that perspective, I think I'd go back and stop him, had I the chance, though I think it's likely someone else would take his place.

There is another way to look at this.

Suppose Hitler was not the most evil man that ever lived & others were worse.

And perhaps these Timelines have already been corrected (without our knowledge, of course).

If your missions were limited & others were worse, then perhaps he, as bad as he was, had to be passed over in lieu of them.

So just because he's an historical fact doesn't mean others weren't eliminated.

But, given the chance, I'd pop him & not think twice.

Pre-reading Questions:
1) No I don't recall actually reading a book where the plot revolved around going back to stop Hitler, although I agree it does sound cliche.
2+3) Personally, when it comes to time travel and changing history, I tend to think that the changes you make could cause more problems than you fix, and it is better to leave the big picture items alone. I may not be adverse to tinkering with avoiding a car accident i had in my early 20's, but changing world history, I wouldn't have the nerve for that.

I am 10 chapters in, and I must say I am loving this book. It is very well written and has enough action and intrigue to suck me in and keep things interesting. This book reminds me a lot of the Dirk Pitt novels written by Clive Cussler.

I'm fairly new to time travel fiction but fancied trying something different. So, I've not read anything along the theme of travelling into the past to kill Hitler.

I agree with most people that generally changing the past would do more harm than good but if taking out this one man would save the lives of millions of people and the descendents that they would have produced then I would probably have gone back to kill Hitler. Of course, there may have been someone else who was going to come along and lead the same atrocities. I recently watched a documentary series called The Dark Charisma of Adolf Hitler and this suggested that Hitler's views were unique but he managed to carry so many people along with him. If that's the case then maybe illiminating him would not neccessarily have meant someone else would have taken his place.

I'm loving the book so far.

Unfortunately our history is plagued with genocides where Hitler is only one of the worse "leaders", and not even the first in rank or the latest. So I don't think that we really learned something from our past, and is difficult to choose which event to change: the extermination of tens of millions of Amerindians by Spaniards and Americans? The extermination of more than 50 millions by the communists? Hitler, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao...

(view spoiler)[ I am still at the beginning, but I found interesting to have such technology allowing to record things everywhere without being spotted. (hide spoiler)]

I have completed part two, and I'm really digging this book. The only problem I have is the authors' approach to the classic grandfather paradox, which we can dicuss more later.

I do have one question for the group. It seems that (view spoiler)[in much of the time travel fiction I have read that when someone goes back to change the past, the resulting change to the future is typically worse as a result and so the protagonist must go back and fix it. Are there any stories out there in which changing the past made the future better? (hide spoiler)]

John wrote: 'Are there any stories...'

John, as you ask:

Read my books.

I am about halfway through, and am thouroughly enjoying it. There have been so mnay times while reading where a question would cross my mind, and the next paragraph answers my question, which makes me giggle, and my husband gives me weird looks.

I don't think that changing the past will be possible outside books (still think that time travel is somehow possible), but that doesn't stop writers to write about this for their and mostly our pleasure. I had several times the sense of a deja vu, or predictable move reading it, but it is a good book.

Finished last night, really enjoyed the book, (view spoiler)[ When I was in the 2nd last chapter I said to my husband, the ending reads like a Beatles song, All you need is Love, and then lo and behold the character said the exact same thing, spooky! (hide spoiler)]

DISCUSSION QUESTION: Having finished the book, are you expecting a sequel? If so, how much would you be looking forward to reading it? Otherwise, do you feel the book was standalone enough, no need for sequels?

Answers in spoilers please if going into ending details!

Overall this was a wonderful book for many reasons, Time Travel being just one.

The pace was eager & the characters very engaging, yet the downside for me was that the resolution near the ending was too convoluted as the back-story is just dumped on the reader & perhaps would this would have been helped by some references to this crucial aspect earlier on.

Still, I enjoyed it for it was fasted paced & well written & I certainly would read a sequel if one came out.

I enjoyed this too but agree with others who said that the ending was a bit too much information all in one go at the end. I enjoyed the story though and thought it was well written. It kept me eager to come back and read more. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a sequel. It was certainly left sufficiently open for one to follow.

POST-READING QUESTION 3: Did you think that the (view spoiler)[supernatural (hide spoiler)] ending was appropriate or took away from your enjoyment of the book?

Amy, not a problem for me, an OK twist but it would have been better served by, as stated, a less convoluted resolution.

Amy wrote: "POST-READING QUESTION 3: Did you think that the [spoilers removed] ending was appropriate or took away from your enjoyment of the book?"

I like surprise endings, but somehow I prefer (view spoiler)[ to be in sync with the type of the book. A book about magic, let's say, can have a "magic" end. (hide spoiler)]

Tealc wrote: "Amy wrote: "POST-READING QUESTION 3: Did you think that the [spoilers removed] ending was appropriate or took away from your enjoyment of the book?"

I like surprise endings, but somehow I prefer [..."

Yes, that's kind of what I was thinking. The ending seemed to come out of left field. If that's where it's going, there need to be some hints along the way. I think that a sequel would probably hit closer to the theme of the surprise ending. It reminded me, in ways, of the movie (view spoiler)[Prometheus (hide spoiler)]. For both the ending to this book and the entirety of the mentioned movie, I think I liked the premise more than the execution. Although, I might be tempted to read/watch the 2nd book/movie in the series for both.

Now that I've finished, the first thing I want to say is that I really liked this book. The story is well written, and I did not want to put it down... that is, until I got to part three. (view spoiler)[When the main character shoots an earlier version of himself yet his future self continues to exist, I nearly quit reading. To me, this is one of those unspoken rules of time travel you just don't mess with. However, by the end of the book I felt like this issue had been adequately resolved... at least in my own mind. In this regard, I think the surprise ending of the sentinels/guardians and that everything was being influenced by divine guidance allowed me to be more open minded to the paradox mentioned above since we were no longer working with a strictly scientific form of time travel. I also liked the fact that the ideology of the guardians was vague enough to match the reader's own beliefs. (hide spoiler)]

I think the authors have left this book open for a series, and I would definitely read a sequel if it were to come out. As for the question of whether I would change history if given the chance, I would say no. In my mind I think any change to history would be met with resistance, whether from divine influence or fate I don't know. Plus it would potentially make things worse, so just don't mess with it in the first place.

Hi all. First, I’d like to say I’m really enjoying this forum. It’s invaluable to see candid feedback and thoughts, especially from fellow time travel fans, some of whom are authors in your own right. I truly appreciate any and all comments and criticisms.

I thought I’d “give back” a little to the forum and shed some light on some of the writing and thought processes that went into the elements being discussed here. This whole note is one huge spoiler, so if you haven’t finished the book, I’d read this after.

(view spoiler)[
Interesting to see the topic about whether or not to go back and kill Hitler. That very thing was a big point of debate between my co-author Ed and I. In an earlier draft, I had a real problem believing someone like Jacob would actually take the risk and try to kill Hitler, considering all the potential implications that could lead to.

So we discussed it and decided to plant the idea in Jacob’s head that there was a potential alien judgment day coming, plus we added the unmarked delivery package, which put all kinds of ideas in Jacob’s mind. So, at least in Jacob’s mind, he felt justified in his actions, and even thought for a moment he was being led to it by some unseen force or ally.

Our original ending for the book was sort of an ambiguous "Inception" ending, where Jacob, after receiving the letter from his past self, gets on a plane to San Diego, and crinkles it up as trash for the flight attendant. And he goes home and greets his wife (she didn’t have cancer in the earlier draft). And you don't really know what he's going to do. But then, for other reasons, we came up with the whole metaphysical spin. Here’s how that came about.

It helps to understand that when we crafted the story, we were heavily influenced by the Chris Vogler/Joseph Campbell “hero’s journey” model, and to a great degree the whole story is a retelling of the Ulysses (or Odysseus) story. Like Ulysses, Jacob is torn between his curiosity/adventure and his longing to return home. Instead of Penelope being ravaged by suitors (in Ulysses), Jacob’s wife Kim is ravaged by cancer. And so, like Ulysses, Jacob is on a journey and must face many obstacles in his return. Metaphorically, we had Jacob going against “the gods” (nature). When the draft was complete, something was missing. The supporting characters felt like they didn’t have enough to do. We felt something bigger was needed. And so we batted around ideas.

At one point, an idea came to us: Why not make this LITERALLY like Ulysses, where there are gods helping and gods thwarting? Then everything seemed to click and we wrote another draft. It gave much more importance to Finkel, to Beeze and Lauren, and to other formerly minor characters.

The question then was how to reveal all this without having a huge information dump at the end. The short answer is, it’s hard to avoid. While we did break the reveals up into two chapters, and included some action during it to “make the medicine go down easier,” there really didn’t seem to be an easier way to put all the pieces together for the reader. As a guide, we thought back to the film, Psycho, where the psychologist explains the whole background on Norman Bates and his mother at the end. With some stories, it’s hard to include those things earlier or it gives too much away. There’s always a tradeoff. In hindsight, there are some additional approaches we might have taken, but then again, I’m never satisfied with a completed work.

One thing I definitely think needs resolution, and it will be addressed in the sequel, is more background on Finkel and Lauren, and why they were so focused on Jacob. Without that information, people might even perceive them as one-dimensional, but they’re anything but. More will be revealed about this that will hopefully make people say, “ah, now I get why they acted that way.”

From the beginning, we perceived this as a trilogy, the first book dealing with the past, the second mostly in the present, and the third in the future, but all involving time travel in some aspect. The sequel is outlined, but we’re still batting around specifics. It was important to us that the sequel stand on its own as a high concept story, though it does continue where the first book leaves off. Many of the things most people liked about the first one will be prevalent in the sequel as well, the mix of history, adventure, and sci-fi, more twists, etc. And all the characters will be back. First we have an unrelated sci-fi book we’re wrapping up, so our goal is to finish the Kronos sequel (tentatively titled The Kronos Prophecy) in 2013. I can share that another major historical figure is referred to heavily (and may or may not make an appearance). Sorry to be so cryptic, but I’m sworn to secrecy. :-)

As for the time-travel rules, the whole "grandfather" paradox where Jacob kills his earlier self was a point of discussion for us as well. Ultimately, we decided to go for it after I saw an episode of Morgan Freeman's "Through the Wormhole" where the possibility of parallel universes was explored. So we decided to go by the rule that if you cross "universal boundaries" or enter an alternate timeline - the paradox doesn't apply (we theorize that there's more to what we know about "time" than meets the eye -- which we plan to expand on in the sequel).

(hide spoiler)]

Incidentally, the Malcolm character was based heavily on Morgan Freeman’s persona. Ironically, neither of us had even heard of the Wormhole series until the book was nearly done. Nor had I seen Evan Almighty, where Morgan Freeman has eerily similar dialogue about “opportunities” (though I’d seen Bruce Almighty). Quite an eerie coincidence.

For those interested, here’s a link to a Q&A with Ed and I that sheds more light in how we write together. This one doesn’t contain spoilers!

http://popculturezoopress.com/q-a-wit...

Thank you J.B. for giving us some insight into how this story developed. I think it adds a lot to the discussion. And I for one am thrilled to hear there is a sequel planned. If you need any feedback as the new book is being developed, I'm sure this group would be happy to oblige.

Just catching up with all the discussions. I agree with Amy about the ending coming out of left field and can also understand that it would derive split opinions. I personally dug the ambitious direction its going but it did drag on. I think it opens up to something more epic (well potentially) in any future sequels (if any are planned).

(view spoiler)[ I get a sense of Phil Pulman's Dark Materials territory from that ending. Ie higher dimensions, a scientific alternative to what many would perceive as Godly or Divine" or where angels and gods are all powerful but nevertheless mortal. I love that sort of fiction which is why I dug the ending, there is much promise for bigger things, just as the Dark Materials had evolved (hide spoiler)]

I am simply delighted by this book! What I find refreshing is the ethical dilemma of changing history. So many time travel books describe the devastating effects of changing history and none of the positives. This one added the positives. I really enjoyed reading (view spoiler)[about the destruction of the US and then there's the description of no war and no homelessness. (hide spoiler)] The underlying question is really which scenario is better and WHO has the right to determine?


Thank you for such great ideas, discussion and suggestions for books to read! I thoroughly enjoy this group!

Thanks for your thoughts, Sandy. I also really liked this book. I have read just about all of the books we have selected since we started doing the book club, and this was one of the best. Some of the books felt like they were a chore just to get through them, but this was a fun and easy read. I am really looking forward to the the next two books. According to the Q&A posted above, the authors are planning a trilogy.

Here's a fun little exercise. I mentioned that the Malcolm character was inspired by actor Morgan Freeman. For those who've read the book,if the book were ever made into a movie, who would you envision in some of the roles? As a writer, I often try to picture an actor as I write dialogue. It helps with staying in the character's voice.

For Jacob, I've heard people suggest everyone from Nicholas Cage to Michael Fassbender (a personal favorite of mine). I know my co-author Ed envisioned Jeff Goldblum (perhaps in his younger days). As Finkel, I imagined actor Bruno Ganz, whom U.S. audiences might know as the retired Stasi agent in the film Unknown with Liam Neeson. Or I could see Christopher Plummer in the role as well

For the psychologist, Muller, I was most certainly envisioning Christof Waltz of Django and Inglorius Basterds fame.

Of course, that's a dream cast, but it's always fun to envision what people think in their mind's eye when reading, in terms of casting.

So, putting on your casting director hat, who would you cast in a film version of the book?

I could definitely see Nicholas Cage as Jacob. I think the role could also go to Liam Neeson or even Brad Pitt. I also agree that Christof Waltz would be great as Muller. The others are up in the air for me.

I somehow picture John Cusack for Jacob. He has great reassuring presence without being overwhelming and can emote passion in subtle ways that someone like Cage would overdo (awesome though Cage is). Fassbender is certainly also a great choice and a relative "new kid" on the block to bring freshness on the screen too. Malcolm is the sort of role I'd want Anthony Hopkins to play but then, Hopkins has played that sort of role too many times, need someone fresh and perhaps

As a director, I would try to stay as clear away from type casting as possible. Its stale when you see the same actor playing the same role. I'd try to be creative and try casting actors who are normally associated with certain roles and turn the table round playing a role, the audience wont be expecting knowing the actor will totally convince of course. For instance, Waltz will always be remembered for his amazing Nazi performance in Inglorious Basterds but I can equally see him as a quirky mentor. He could be a great Malcom adding (dare I say) more spice to the role than in the book.

But the character I would really like to cast with relish is the devilishly flirtatious women on the ship (forgot her name)...I need to think about that one for a bit though, a lot of names are popping in my head. Obvious ones are someone like Angela Jodie but she is too obvious.

Thumbs up for Cusack. Good call, Tej.

Wow, interesting and unique choices, Tej! One of my good friends said John Cusack as well. I'm convinced Christoph Waltz could play anyone. he's an amazing actor. of course, the book describes Malcolm as African American, but that doesn't mean it has to be so for a movie.

All in all, very creative choices! for Lauren, I've heard Angela Jolie, Scarlett Johansson, Naomi Watts, Charleze Theron, and Clare Holt from Vampire Diaries. of course, Lauren has much more depth in the sequel, as we learn more about her (we wrestled with whether to include some of that in the first book, but for better or worse, felt it would fit better in the sequel).

Keep the ideas coming!

Ah Scarlett johanssen...yes, I would love to see her in such a role. Charleze Theron a close second. To be honest, I still cant shake off the fact that Angelena Jolie IS Lauren...beautiful, intelligent, oozes class like no one else on the planet, potentially treacherous and way above any man's league, even Brad Pitt, the lucky devil. Cast her as Lauren and there is no difficulty whatsoever in believing Jacob's struggle to resist her devilish temptations. But Jolie has too much star power that will drown everyone else, so I think Johanssen would strike the right balance.

And yes, its probably a little obvious now though I'm not sure if I mentioned it before but I did wish for more of Lauren's involvement in the book as I felt that was the only thing underdeveloped especially given the delicious impact of the short scenes she had. But its good to know, she will be featured more in the second.

Personally, I think its always good to have a strong female presence whether good or bad and if written well has the potential to enrich a story because they (in these type of novels) add complexity in their motives, and a favourable uncertainty element to the narrative, sometimes more threatening, more mysterious and in this particular case delightfully conniving and flirtatious. Most of those traits, you dont generally connect with male protagonists. I mean face it, us males are bland and transparent most of the time and so our fictional hero counterparts inevitably reflect that regardless of the brave derring do of the male heroes and baddies in novels :)

Haha all very good points, Tej! I think you'll like what we're planning.

OK folks, here's an exclusive sneak peak for those in this forum... this is a preliminary logline for The Kronos Prophecy, the sequel to The Kronos Interference. We're pretty far along in our outline, and are excited about how all the pieces are coming together.

As I mentioned, there will be plenty more from all the original characters, we learn much more about their hidden motivations, and there's even a little more Hitler (but I'm not saying how or in what capacity). Overall, it's feeling like a solid story that builds on the first book (and sets up the third). I think our readers will like where it's headed. At least I hope.

Here's the current logline (don't worry, while not evident in the logline, the book incorporates all the teasers left open at the end of the first book):

A CIA nanotechnologist wakes up in a mental institution and becomes concerned when another patient claiming to be Napoleon Bonaparte brings news of a world-ending series of catastrophic events that appears to be coming true.

Awesome, J.B. Do you have a release date you are shooting for?

Well, not yet.

Sorry, pressed send too soon! Anyway, not quite yet. We have another sci-fi book that an agency is reviewing, so that one will come out first, hopefully around summer. The Kronos sequel should take 8-10 months to complete, so I'd say either end of 2013 or early 2014.

I love the idea of nanotechnology and time travel. Including a dose of augmented reality would make it a geekfest triumvirate. I would definitely have reading hangover in the mornings from it!