The Sword and Laser discussion

I really liked the book. Got it as part of that one humble bundle and couldn't put it down. Anyone else feel like it kinda ended like a deflated balloon though? It felt like Perry and Kathy were just starting to piece some things together, and there were all these hints about secrets pertaining to the ghost brigade. I thought maybe there would be more happening between them. But then it just kinda suddenly ended with a "Welp, and I never saw her again." I didn't realize this was a first in a series though-so perhaps there are some answers in the other books... It just seemed the like the story was really going strong, and then just ended.

I thought the same but then I realized it is war. You lose the ones you love. I felt that was the theme through the book. Everyone Perry loves ends up dead. Funny thing is you can technically remake Kathy and the others over and over again.

I've finished as well. I felt like a lot of the stuff that has happened is ridiculously unlikely, and is primarily a medium to explain all the ideas in the book. I really enjoyed the book and I think the ideas in it are great, but there are too many improbable things that happen for me to suspend my disbelief.

Wife gave it to me for Christmas and I read it in three days. It was great. The ghost brigades felt a little strange while I was reading, but thinking back I actually liked just about everything, including the end.

John wrote: "I've finished as well. I felt like a lot of the stuff that has happened is ridiculously unlikely..."

Like... what? Come on folks, saying stuff like this without examples just leads to... nothing. I have a real issue with people who pick up SFF and then complain that it's unrealistic (duh...) but I don't know what bugged you so I don't know if that's where you're coming from or if it's something else. Detail, please.

Was the entire chain of events unlikely? Well, sure, but if we'd followed the story of the others it would have ended permanently with their deaths. In some senses, the story of John Perry is the story of any veteran who lives through the war.

I agree with you to a degree, Kristina. The novel was separated into three parts, but they didn't feel like three acts to me, they felt like three episodes of a TV show (each with their own act structure). It was an interesting choice by the author, and it works very well in the first two parts, but it does deflate that third section because there's very little build up to the final battle. The apparent (and very sudden) end to the Perry/Jane(Kathy) relationship didn't bother me as much as it did you, but I also knew it was the first book in a series as I was reading it.

I can tell you the second title in the series is called THE GHOST BRIGADES, so I'm sure that will answer some of your questions about the secrets of the Ghost Brigade (I just grabbed it at the library today).

I think the best elements for me was John's process of discovering his new abilities and environment. Once that was done then most of the fun was over for me - except the Consu. I was fascinated by the Consu and I really wanted the book to go into more about them and there plans etc - I read the rest of the books hoping we'd get into a bit more world building involving the Consu. Didn't happen much. But I still enjoyed the series for the most part. But this first book is still my favourite of the series.

Rick wrote: "John wrote: "I've finished as well. I felt like a lot of the stuff that has happened is ridiculously unlikely..."

Like... what?"

(view spoiler)[Like Harry and Jesse being among the handful of survivors of Coral as well as Jane being the one to recover Perry from Coral. Like Perry happening to be a war hero against the Consu which just happens to be critical to getting information from them. Coincidence upon coincidence.

It didn't wreck the book for me, but it just kept getting unlikelier to the point where I was looking for the setup/twist. (hide spoiler)]

I started it a few days before the new year and was done on the 31st. I love the humor that is put in. Especially with the Brainpals. It did get a bit serial Sci-fi but I enjoyed it none the less.

Harry and Jesse surviving was not critical to the story, but it might be setting up things later in the series.

Jane wasn't the only soldier to find Perry, but it makes sense for her to be there as a platoon leader and one of the better ones according to Major Crick.

Perry was taken along to Consu because he was a war hero against them. If he wasn't then someone else would have gone and we'd have had a different character telling the story.

I generally find that coincidences are more common than expected and a story is generally about an individual that's had many coincidences in their lives. Otherwise, what's the point of the story?

My only real issue with the book was the alien race names. We, in most cases, can't pronounce what aliens call themselves and probably like 'human' originally meant 'earthling' also just refer to what they call their own planet, why wouldn't the humans give the alien races pronounceable names, even if just diminutives?

I read this before it became a pick but my thoughts summarised here in my review http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

I picked it up early to give myself time to read it, and then finished it in a day. It was a quick and easy read for me. The ending didn't feel complete for me either, but I was expecting that as it's part of a series. I think I will be reading the others in this series.

LIndsay - thanks for the reply. I pretty much agree with Mapleson, that some things are unremarkable (he was at the second Consu meeting because of his action in the first battle. Had he not figured that out he wouldn't have been invited.) Had he not survived Coral the story would have ended. Had the story been about one of the other Old Farts who died, the story would end there.

Telling a story about the guy who lived through all of this is no more remarkable than telling the story of someone who lived through D-Day in WW2. Of course the story is about the survivors.

About the age thing (not getting a feeling for his age/that he'd lived a life), remember you're picking the story up as he enlists. A lot of backstory would have bogged things down and, frankly would be boring. "Here's a middle class, middle American senior citizen living his life..." Stories tend to be about people and events that are interesting for some reason.

Sidenote: How old am I? Can you tell from how I write? (I might have mentioned this in other threads, so no fair if I have and you get the information that way). My point is that most people don't spend a lot of time doing stereotypical things for their age. Old people just live their lives and unless doing that necessarily involves stuff about age they don't walk around doing things that emphasize it. They get up, have breakfast, talk to friends, etc. They don't, generally, have a bunch of special things that indicate their age explicitly. Sure, SOME do... but a reasonably healthy, active 75 year old might not. Neither is he going to note that he walks with a stoop - he just does. Like a lot of things about one's body, slow changes just become part of the background.

To jump to another series as an example, imagine if instead of writing about Harry Dresden, JIm Butcher had written about his neighbor - the guy who lives next to that weird dude downstairs, gets up, goes to work, has a drink after and goes out with some friends. Would anyone read that? Probably not. Bur writing about the guy downstairs who's a wizard? THAT is a story to read. Same for the various cops in the Chicago PD.... most of them are just cops. But Murphy... she has a wizard for a friend and sees some very strange stuff as a result.

I think you want a different book than Scalzi wrote, though and while it's a fair criticism, it's always possible to ding a book for not being something else. However, I think one has to ask if the novel was ever meant to be what you want. For example, I could ding this for not being a very politically complex book and there are certainly themes in the OMW world that could be expanded in that dimension (imagine scenes back at Phoenix about relations with various aliens, etc). But that's not the book Scalzi wanted to write so, for me, it would feel slightly unfair to call out the book for not being a deep political allegory.

By the way it's perfectly possible that Perry does think about Earth, etc in off moments, but they're off moments...they're not the story Scalzi is telling. And there ARE moments... when he and Jesse have had sex in that first burst of youth he talk about the fact that his misses his wife sometimes... and they chat a bit about marriage.

But at the end of the day this isn't a novel that focuses a lot on the interior lives of the characters, building up complex backstories for each and weaving them in. It's really a story about the guy who joins up, has some experiences takes us for the ride with Perry and that's all it is. I do think Scalzi has grown as an author but his books do have a tendency to tell one main story and follow that thread throughout. I don't know that I can recall any of his stuff where there are multiple significant plots with character machinations that intertwine, etc.

I've read the book a while back, right after S&L interviewed John Scalzi. I thought it was a wonderful SF book, even if a little freshman. I really enjoyed the humor and the narrative style. My only critique is that John never truly felt "old." Even before his transformation and a new body, he never thought or behaved like an old man. At least that's *my* opinion.

I finished a couple of days ago. Got it as part of the humble bumble also and read it on my phone. This is first time I've actually read an entire book digitally and I can say i liked it. Absolutely loved the book and have now downloaded quite of a few Scalzi's back catalogue. Also got "Fuzzy Nation" DTE for Xmas. The story flowed really nicely, i enjoyed the writing style and it was funny. The characters were well developed and I cared about them. Am now a Scalzi fan.

I was very unimpressed with this book. It was an easy read but in the end utterly forgettable. There is nothing new or memorable here . . . next.

This is one of my favorite books. I've listened to it twice in audiobook and am now re-reading it since it's the pick and I got it in the Humble Bundle.

I've said before that this book helped reignite my interest in sci fi stories. In some ways, Scalzi challenged me to look at my opinions in another light. I never thought I would join up for military service as I don't like the breaking a person down to get them to do what you want thing. Like others have said in other threads, the thinking is that old people just won't follow orders, young people will; that's why you recruit the young and not the old. I don't think that way anymore. I simply think that most people are worker bees--they do what they are told and don't question it. There are some who won't toe the line on just say-so, and I don't think age has anything to do with that trait.

I'm 46, my body is aging, my thinking has mellowed. In some ways I'm more stubborn and opinionated, but in other ways I'm more flexible and open minded. If I got a chance at 75, even if for only the duration of my training, to be young--even moreso with all those enhancements--I'd do it. And I think *that's* what would motivate stubborn old dogs to shut up and do what their told.

I also think a good story is about people experiencing extraordinary things. I don't want to read a book about someone's daily hum-drum. I don't want to read a book about an old guy that gets transformed only to have the book end when he dies during basic training. I want to read about the person who gets past all that, experiences even more extraordinary things, and if all that exploration wasn't enough, to then come out of a horrific experience of having his foot shoved down his throat to see his *wife*? WHAT!?! Mind blown!

I have to say that I enjoyed the second book The Ghost Brigades as much as the first one. I've always wanted to talk about that first chapter, and how it taught me a lesson of assumptions, but since it's a big spoiler, I just have to keep quiet.

I enjoyed the book. It was what I call a half-brain book. I can just read it, enjoy it, and not have to think much about it. That doesn't make it a bad book by any means as I did enjoy it, I just didn't find anything particularly deep or memorable about it. Its like the movie you watch that is highly similar of many other movies of its genre but well done enough that you like it anyways.

I definitely liked the second half better than the first half. I actually teared up when he was telling Jane about his wife, how they had met, how they fell in love, how she died.

I didn't care for the gory description, but I guess that comes with the territory in a book about war.

I guess I like the relationships that happen in a book and so the different relationships in this book were the best parts to me.

I also like the parallel of the last chapter(s) to wording from the beginning. I like it when things come full circle like that. I didn't like, however, that he said "I never saw Jane again." It makes it sound like there's no chance of ever seeing her again. If I was telling someone about somebody I used to know, I would more likely say, "And I haven't seem him since." Not "I never saw him again." Maybe that's nit picky, but it struck me sideways.

I found the book used today so I will actually be reading it at the same time as Sword and Laser.

I read OMW and 'The Ghost Brigades' last year. Finished The Last Colony last night and really enjoyed all 3 of them. Nothing incredibly deep but good rip roaring space opera type tales. 'Zoe's Tale' is on my shelf so I will be getting to that in the near future.

I really loved Old Man's War. I immediately read Ghost Brigades and The Last Colony just to stay in the world for awhile. While the two follow-ups are good, Old Man's War is the best in my opinion.

The story in OMW itself is not a whole story. It is episodic. There's no main plot that's established. It's just events in the second life of John Perry. I usually don't like these kinds of stories, but the characterization of John really sucked me in. I liked seeing this new war through his eyes and through process. I also loved how creative Scalzi was with the kinds of aliens and the complete unpredictability of the warfare that the "human" soldiers had to wage.

I liked "Old Man's War" quite a lot, too. It had some odd twists that I thought were, by turn, engrossing and goofy, such as I found the naming of the BrainPals to be a bit sophomoric and out of character. The "body brochure" was hilarious, but a bit unbelievable. It reads like some bad advertising copy from the 50s instead of a military report. The stomping of the one-inch aliens was likewise rather silly.

The Old Farts were a very entertaining early development and their banter reminded me of the kind of chatter Heinlein would create. I was a bit disappointed, though not surprised, they were broken up then killed off on by one. There was no other personal relationships created that matched them in the rest of the book so for me it read like a very absorbing journal of a very lucky guy from that point on. Even the aspect with Jane, though I found it engaging, the attempt to create another deep personal connection didn't really work for me.

The idea of the "ghosts" was a great turn, though I find the idea of a personality with the experience of a 6-year-old as the lead commander a bit hard to buy. Still, that these people were absent a previous life and developing that and their relationship to the "real-borns" is an intriguing concept to build on.

I couldn't get Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" out of my head the whole time, though the relationship is only fleeting. In the acknowledgements he thanks Heinlein, so I feel vindicated to some degree.

It was a great read with lots of action and adventure, though there were some thoughtful bits.