The Eastern Bloc: A History discussion

Greetings,

Welcome to the group. We will be reading history books on the Eastern European countries from various points in history. Please feel free to introduce yourself and enjoy the reading.

Just curious - and which countries exactly do you count among "an Eastern bloc"?

"Warsaw pact countries" by any chance?

Hi, I'm Angie. I love Russian history. I was wondering if you took suggestions for books to read?

Greetings everyone! My apologies for not getting back to everyone sooner but it had been so quiet on here that I didn't think anyone was interested.

Please let me know if you are interested and we can see if we can get the group off the ground.

Warsaw Pact countries would count. Pretty much east of Germany and Finland, down to the Balkans and it would include Russia. During certain points of time it would include other areas like Greece or possibly Germany or Finland and on an occasion France but the focus is supposed to be on the cultures and countries in the geographical location of Eastern and South Eastern Europe.

I personally would be up for suggestions. If we have enough people perhaps we can take turns or set up some kind of survey to choose the books.

I am pretty open. Let me know what you all want to do.

Thanks!

Angelique wrote: "Hi, I'm Angie. I love Russian history. I was wondering if you took suggestions for books to read?"
Molotov's Magic lantern by Rachel Polonsky is a wonderful book if you have not already read it , It is full of bite size tasty glimpses of Russia's history and culture that just makes the reader hungry for more.

Good Morning.....Hope to see lots of ideas, books, and discussions here!

Have been reading Iron Curtain, by Anne Applebaum, and am really enjoying it. I am open to any suggestions for books as well.....Thanks for getting this started...

Renee

Probably this would be a (very) late reply, but I just wanna say I totally agree with Andy! even though it might take a while to catch up with the story especially if you kind of start from zero background in Russian history (at least, that's what happens to me), but the book is awesome and the way the story's been told isn't 'that hard' to follow :-) this is now one of my favorite book!

Hey everyone! Glad to see some like minded folks in here. I just read Anne Applebaum's "Iron Curtain" and really was fascinated by the history. I recently saw a book at B&N about post-totalitarian eastern bloc countries but now I can't remember the title. Does anyone know a good way to keep up to date on emerging histories and or novels on this subject? I scoured goodreads lists to no effect. Glad to find this group however! Considering reading Applebaum's "Gulag" Anyone read that one?

Hi everyone,

My name is Heinz Kohler and I am currently running giveaways of my latest two books at goodreads. One of them, among other things, recounts my experiences following World War II with the Soviet occupation of East Germany and life in the years that followed. That seems to fit the interests of this group.

If anyone would like to consider a rather unusual view of World War II and its aftermath (from the perspective of a young boy growing up in Berlin and East Germany at the time), the following may be of interest: I am giving away 10 paperback copies of MY NAME WAS FIVE: A Novel of the Second World War. In addition, Amazon now has a Kindle edition, sample chapters appear at www.mynamewasfive.com, and much more is found at my goodreads blog.

Hi everyone,

I was born and raised in Russia (Soviet Union at the time) and now live in the US. Books are one of my main ways of keeping in touch with life in Russia. Here's a fascinating book I'm currently reading:

http://www.amazon.com/Kremlin-Rising-...

If anybody else reads it, I'd love to chat about it.

I noticed that a few of you mentioned Iron Curtain. Maybe, we should all pick a book to read and discuss it? I'm open to suggestions :).

Julia

The book you've cited has strong anti-russian bias on my opinion.

Here's another book on subject which is less biased (but biased nonetheless - to Putin's favor) and better explains why russians tolerate Putin for that long:

Richard Sakwa’s Putin: Russia’s Choice
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0415...

Anyone read The Last Man in Russia: The Struggle to Save a Dying Nation? I started it this week. So far, pretty interesting!

Renee wrote: "Good Morning.....Hope to see lots of ideas, books, and discussions here!

Have been reading Iron Curtain, by Anne Applebaum, and am really enjoying it. I am open to any suggestions for books as we..."
Loved that book! Her book Gulag is on my queue.

Also, anyone ever read any Orlando Figes?

Danny wrote: "Also, anyone ever read any Orlando Figes?"

I've read his quote : "Whereas in Europe new ideas were forced to compete against other doctrines and attitudes, with the results that people tended towards healthy skepticism about claims to absolute truth, and a climate of pluralism developed, In Russia there was a cultural void. The censor forbade all political expression, so that when ideas were introduced there they easily assumed the status of holy dogma, a panacea for all the world's ills, beyond questioning or indeed the need to test them in real life." - which was enough to stop reading and call it BS.

There was *never* a cultural void neither in Russia nor in USSR and no amount of censoring was able to 'forbade' expressing of dissenting ideas of all stripes.

BTW, Western Europe wasn't exactly free of censoring (Napoleon, Bismarck were quite fond of censoring press, later Austrian-Hungarian Empire was the best censor - read Jaroslav Hašek "The Good Soldier Švejk", nice digest of imperial censorship history is here - http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/Slavonic/Cz... ).

For example, both Solzhenytsin and Pasternak were well published in USSR before being verboten. And in both cases the act of 'big censoring' has happened after some struggle at the top (Khruschev liked Solzhenytsin, Brezhnev - did not, in crude oversimplification). Maxim Gorky - as an example of a leftist author, censored under czar (wrote nothing worse than Sinclair Lewis or Jack London IMO), but well-known nonetheless.

And I could go on to cite a number of other prominent authors who were published and wasn't exactly enthusiastic pro-regime agitators - despite 'severe' censure regime. Rozanov - an example of dissenting philosopher who worked under bolsheviks. Yes, he died of hunger in 1919 (at peak of Civil War), but his ideas did not - the very same Maxim Gorky was fond of them, despite being an 'official author'. Another interesting fact check - 1825, Decembrist's revolt. Who's in the 'cultural void' there?

To sum up - no void, other than in Orlando's knowledge of Russian cultural life, is detected.

I'd agree, that saying there was no unofficial culture is a gross misstatement or at least a huge oversimplification. What about Shostakovich for example? Anti government culture may not have thrived with blessings from above, but it existed. And not all pro govt art was forced from above either.

Come to think of censorship: worst kind of censorship is self-censoring.

There are always ways to circumvent authoritarian censors who usually thick enough not to catch subtle allusions and Aesopian language.

Russians ('soviet people' would be more correct term) developed a knack for reading between the lines of official press and not believing into what's written without a proof - I know, I lived in USSR :-).

But there's no escape from 'inner censor'.

Glad to see things are taking off in here. I had given up for dead. Any ideas on what book we should start reading?

Danny wrote: "Also, anyone ever read any Orlando Figes?"

I've read both Natasha's Dance and A People's Tragedy. Though Figes warrants some criticism, I do think he writes in a readable, appealing manner, which serves as a good hook for readers who think they want to get into Russian and Eastern European history more deeply. His work is a good jumping-off point for more narrowly focused research.

Any ideas on what book we should start reading?

It is too limiting to ask to read something that is also published on Kindle? I'm abroad and have an easier time getting books digitally.

Danny wrote: "What about Shostakovich for example? "

That's a good example in music.

Another one is Prokofiev - who returned back in USSR (from USA, BTW) in 1936, became a prominent 'official music composer' only to be persecuted in 1948 - no death sentence, imagine that, just 'some bad press'. Well, his wife got arrested for 'espionage' (tried to send money to her mother and Spain was under Franco at a time). Wife was released in 50s and left the USSR in 1974.

Prokofiev died same day as Stalin' death was announced. Some of his pieces don't fit into 'soviet music' style.

Alfred Schnittke - another one in music, Shostakovich follower, one might say. Very much out-of-line, but wrote soundtracks for many movies.

Adam wrote: "Glad to see things are taking off in here. I had given up for dead. Any ideas on what book we should start reading?"

May I suggest And Quiet Flows the Don, which might provide insights into several things:

- who were Cossacks? (usually mentioned in passing only as perpetrators of jewish pogroms in western literature)

- how civil wars get started? (they all unique, of course, but there's pattern)

- why and how bolsheviks (later known as 'communists') won the Civil War in Russia? (yeah, book is biased to bolshevik's favor, so correct for that, but you'd be surprised how much sympathy author expresses to Cossacks who fought against Reds or can't figure out which side is worse - Whites or Reds. What's nice about it - book in general follows real events quite accurately).

- day-to-day life of ordinary people (peasantry, workers, some aristocracy too)

Since I've read the book in Russian, I cannot vouch for translation quality. But original language is great, has Cossack way of speaking (US analogue is 'southern drawl'+unique words).

might as well throw my hat into the ring for The Last Man in Russia: The Struggle to Save a Dying Nation since I just picked it up.

Danny wrote: "might as well throw my hat into the ring for The Last Man in Russia: The Struggle to Save a Dying Nation since I just picked it up."

Danny, that one doesn't sound to bad.

Grozny wrote: "Adam wrote: "Glad to see things are taking off in here. I had given up for dead. Any ideas on what book we should start reading?"

May I suggest And Quiet Flows the Don, which might provide insight..."

Grozny, I just read Quiet Flows the Don a few months ago but I'd be up for rereading it again or I could skim in quickly and move on to the second book in that series which I have yet to read.

Would you all like to just submit some suggestions and I'll put together a poll for us to vote on?

Should we alternate months between fiction and nonfiction or just go with whatever is suggested?

Thanks!

I read "And Quiet flows the Don" shortly after Sholokhov won the Nobel, and re-read it about 15 years later. It's great. I started "The Don Flows Home to the Sea" a couple of times, but wasn't impressed.

I'd be willing to give "The Don Flows Home..." another chance in a group read.

Dave wrote: "I read "And Quiet flows the Don" shortly after Sholokhov won the Nobel, and re-read it about 15 years later. It's great. I started "The Don Flows Home to the Sea" a couple of times, but wasn't impr..."

Interesting idea, although I must say that "The Don Flows Home to the Sea" is weaker than "And Quiet flows the Don" and therefore harder to read. Harder to portray peaceful times, especially when certain themes has to be avoided or muffled.

I haven't read it completely, just some excerpts. I'm willing to give it a try though.

EDIT: just checked - turns out, I've read "The Don Flows Home to the Sea", in russian it is included into "And Quiet flows the Don" as volume 3 and 4. As for excerpts I've mentioned, those were from unfinished book.

Check out the website,Sovlit.net. It's a good resorce for Soviet era literature. Its offerings include several short stories and about a dozen articles, etc. about Sholokhov.

Dave wrote: "Check out the website,Sovlit.net. It's a good resorce for Soviet era literature. Its offerings include several short stories and about a dozen articles, etc. about Sholokhov."
Not bad - I was expecting the usual stuff - but it has some words from horse' mouth.

I like songs by Visotsky and Okudzhava

I should mention the reason I kinda dislike Okudzhava personally - he was wounded in the butt while being transported to a battlefield in North Caucasus, 1942, and never get to the frontline in another 1.5 years while he were in hospitals :-(. Just to give a prospective.

Nevertheless, his song "Seryozhka from Small Armory ave and Peter from Moss street" is very touching...

Dave wrote: "Check out the website,Sovlit.net. It's a good resorce for Soviet era literature. Its offerings include several short stories and about a dozen articles, etc. about Sholokhov."

Yeah, I could say the LEF (LEft Front) was definitely evil. Note it wasn't a state structure - rather a poet and and writers collective which tries to censor everything. That's what I mean by inner censor going amok.

OK, here's the author I bet you've never heard of: Territory by Oleg Kuvaev - about geologists (and prisoners) searching for gold in Northern East Siberia (aka Yakutia). Too bad it's not translated (AFAIK)

Grozny, It must be embarassing to be shot in the ass. Perhaps,"...he was just a laughingstock, a soldier made of paper." I did some searching for Kuvaev's book; found a few scholarly references, but it doesn't seem to be available in English. I did find an indication from 2011 that a film version was in production.

Dave wrote: "Check out the website,Sovlit.net. It's a good resorce for Soviet era literature. Its offerings include several short stories and about a dozen articles, etc. about Sholokhov."

Awesome site! Thanks Dave!

Dave wrote: "Grozny, It must be embarassing to be shot in the ass

To be fair to Bulat Shalvovich - he was wounded by a stray bullet from german recon plane.

Greetings and salivations fellow denizens of Goodreads!
I am a European history major whose passion for knowledge far exceeded the funds required to see my degree to its logical four (read: five, six) year end-point. Alas, some things were simply not meant to be... :(
To compensate, I spent five years reading everything I could about 19th & 20th c. Europe, with a particular emphasis on Eastern Europe. That being said, I was obviously intrigued by the promising allure of a group specifically dedicated to that subject/place..
****
And now that all that's out of the way, I humbly recommend Tadeusz Konwicki's Polish Complex, Bruno Schulz's Street of Crocodiles collection and Cynthia Ozick's Messiah of Stockholm for the group; I suppose the latter wouldn't make sense to read before reading Schulz but I definitely recommend Ozick's imaginative novel for anyone already familiar with Schulz's work.

Andy wrote: "Angelique wrote: "Hi, I'm Angie. I love Russian history. I was wondering if you took suggestions for books to read?"
Molotov's Magic lantern by Rachel Polonsky is a wonderful book if you have not..."

I am currently reading Polonsky's book and am fascinated with her descriptions of Old Russia; each chapter, though loosely connected, speaks of the preservation of the Russian national character despite and in light of the state's attempt to create a new Soviet wo/man by demythologizing culture and indeed art itself, destroying religion to erect a cult of zealous believers and collectivizing the traditional homes of the bourgeoisie to spawn the embourgeoisement of the regime's cronies. The Russian national character is a determined one and as Count Sergei Dmitrievich Sheremetev prophetically declared, the Old Moscow, the Old Russia will always survive the New Moscow and the New Russia.

>How do you feel about Fyodor Dmitrievich Kryukov?
---

I feel fine about him :-). He wasn't that bad a writer, but not quite on a scale of Sholokhov - but you might need to read in russian to feel the difference.

Do you mean allegations, that Kryukov was a true author of "And Quiet Flows the Don" and not Sholokhov? If so, finding of vol 4 of Sholokhov's manuscript in 1999 and analyzing it thoroughly disproved them.

Kryukov's style differs quite a bit (to my taste), so it's really puzzling why would Solzhenitsyn float the claim of plagiarism.

Undoubtedly, Sholokhov have read newspaper articles by Kryukov and was familiar with his writing. And it certainly feels in some places that Sholokhov writing sounds close (esp. when he writes about white cossacks) - but then it shifts and feels very different in his writings for red side.

Also if you read unfinished "They fought for the Motherland" (about WW2), which cannot be written by Kryukov, it doesn't feel that different from "And Quiet Flows the Don".

It didn't help Sholokhov, that he tended to destroy his manuscripts - for example, he threw in fire almost finished "They fought for the Motherland" and that's why only selected chapters survived.

A nice prequel to the "Life and Fate" would be "For a Just Cause" of very same Vassily Grossman plus Leonov's "The Russian Forest".

You're in for some discovery then. Just like Sholokhov, Leonov wasn't always supportive to the regime.

Sometimes subtle critic works better and heard by more people - especially when it's well-based.

For A Just Cause looks hard to find. Available in English?

Sadly, looks like it still not available - not anti-regime enough, I guess - here's an excerpt from UK's Guardian book review, 2011 :

---

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2011...

Za Pravoe Delo, or "For a Just Cause", has never been translated; perhaps it will be now. Though bold enough to get Grossman into trouble when it was published in 1952, it was, nevertheless, a conventional socialist-realist novel, respectful of the main outlines of Stalinist piety. In it, by all accounts, recognisable versions of the people we know in Life and Fate in scrubbed-bare form exist deeply layered, varnished in acceptable feeling and Stalinist sentiment. Viktor Shtrum and all the others were imagined complicitly before they were imagined fearlessly.

---

To me "For a Just Cause" sounds more authentic, closer to what I've heard from my grandparents and their peers.

Greetings to all!

While I am not a historian (philosopher by trade :) ), I am interested in Eastern European history since I come from there--Romania, to be more precise. I actually have translated books that have to do with communist persecution in Romania.

Hi there!

I have been reading books about life in the GDR/DDR and have found every single one of them fascinating. Growing up in the US in the 70's, I had a fear of East Germany. I envisioned the GDR as a dark, dangerous, cold place. As an adult, I came to realize that that was only partially true. Now, after reading some books of personal stories, I am stunned that it is not a more popular subject. I would think that many of these books would make for great movies.

Speaking of movies, I wish that the DEFA film library could somehow sell their collections at a reasonable price. Yowza!

So, seeing that my favorite subject is hard to come by, I should probably expand into the other Eastern Bloc memoirs.

Thank you.

Julie, that's precisely what I've been thinking: some of these books would make for great movies.

Hi Julie!

Will you please list the books you found particularly insightful? Thanks!

-Chad

Julie wrote: "Hi there!

I have been reading books about life in the GDR/DDR and have found every single one of them fascinating. Growing up in the US in the 70's, I had a fear of East Germany. I envisioned the..."

Chad,

All of the books that I have read have been insightful to me. Here they are:

This was by far the most exciting and moving book. The mechanisms of communist indoctrination and Stasi manipulation are told in great detail here, as well as what everyday life was like for this family.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...

This was another fantastic book. It shows how a German family survived WWII but found themselves being ruled by the Soviets. There is good detail here about communist indoctrination and the will to survive through it all.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

Not everyone was unhappy living in the GDR. This book chronicles eight people's lives both before and after the wall.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

This book was written about a family who had hard-line communists as well as communist resistors. Many insightful experiences are detailed here.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

A little dry, but a good book on how the Stasi worked:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

Very exciting and uplifting:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

This is how the Stasi ruined people's lives who were not in lock step:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

They were all good, and I am always looking for more like them.

Thank you for asking!
Julie

Wow! Thanks, Julie!!!

I'm glad to see this group is coming back to life. In the past my primary Eastern Bloc interest was Soviet literature. I have read a few thing from other Slavic countries, but I've never read GDR literature. Considering that half of my ancestors were German, now I'd like to know of any GDR fiction that has significant literary merit (potential for a major international award). Can anyone help. Thanks.

Is anybody around now (June 2020) or has this group become moribund?
If active on some level, I'd like to participate.
Erin

Renee wrote: "Good Morning.....Hope to see lots of ideas, books, and discussions here!

Have been reading Iron Curtain, by Anne Applebaum, and am really enjoying it. I am open to any suggestions for books as wel..."

I hope to get to that book before the year is out.

Arthur wrote: "Renee wrote: "Good Morning.....Hope to see lots of ideas, books, and discussions here!

Have been reading Iron Curtain, by Anne Applebaum, and am really enjoying it. I am open to any suggestions fo..."

I just added that to my wish list. I need to get back to reading about the GDR. Hopefully there are some new books floating around out there.

Julie wrote: "Chad,

All of the books that I have read have been insightful to me. Here they are:

This was by far the most exciting and moving book. The mechanisms of communist indoctrination and Stasi manipula..."

You have quite the list, most of the Eastern European memoirs I have read were by Poles who had spent time in Soviet Gulags. Notable exceptions include The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956, and A Freedom Within: The Prison Notes of Stefan Cardinal Wyszynski who was imprisoned in Poland.

More recently I have been reading Pope John Paul II dealings with Communism in A Pope and a President: John Paul II, Ronald Reagan, and the Extraordinary Untold Story of the 20th Century, and The End and the Beginning: Pope John Paul II -- The Victory of Freedom, the Last Years, the Legacy