The Sword and Laser discussion

So I'm pretty excited about this, as I imagine many other folks are. While I'm waiting for my copy to show up, I figured I'd set up a discussion thread.

This seemed to work pretty well for Cold Days, so I'm hoping it will work well here, though I imagine there may be a lot more people reading this.

Also since it's a much longer book than Cold Days, some of you will be done in a day, others like me will take a week or longer most likely.

Please keep that in mind when posting.

I'll try to moderate the discussion a bit (if that's even needed). Just please try to keep all plot discussion in spoiler tags.

Also, adding comments above the spoiler tags like "spoilers for chapters 1-4" would be very helpful, for people who are still reading and want to jump in.

Finally if you're replying to someone who posted spoilers, make sure you don't accidentally include their spoilers in the quote. Do something like:

1) @Rob (without quoting actual text/using the reply button)
or
2) if you do quote: Rob said: "Something Profound but unspoilery. spoilers removed" by manually editing the quote before posting. (Note: if you click reply while the spoiler tag is collapsed good reads seems to do this for you, but if you are showing the spoiler, it will include the text)

It's only a little more work this way. The alternative is having threads for each chapter/set of chapters so people can safely discuss just the parts they've read.

I think that's a hassle unless the S&L folks want to provide us with a section just for this book.

Anyways, can't wait to read and discuss the book!

Eeep! Today is the last day EVER of WoT being incomplete. I'm so excited but kind of sad too. I'll definitley be here enthusiastically discussing. We'll have to see how it goes but you may be right about a whole section being helpful. We've got a section for ASoIaF/GoT. We may as well have one up for AMoL, this is going to be a doozey.

My copy came a day early! OMG I'm going to read now. This makes up for Cold Days arriving at like 10pm on the day of release.

Somebody just tell me how it ends so I don't have to read the damned thing.

Sean wrote: "Somebody just tell me how it ends so I don't have to read the damned thing."

And they lived happily ever after..

I work nights so I won't be able to pick my copy up til 5pm tomorrow. That said, I expect it will take me about one week to finish. Less if I didn't have to work.

Agh, I'm jealous, Rob. I plan on picking mine up as soon as the book store opens tomorrow and reading in the park with my doggie till I have to work in the afternoon. Then I have all of Wednesday off. :D

I just got mine today at Penn Station New York, but I have to return it next week as my real copy from Amazon is coming on the 15th since I did a standard shipping, and pre-ordered it late.

Stuck in work, and I have a committee meeting right after work, so I won't get to reading until at least 8pm.
:(

Kevin wrote: "I just got mine today at Penn Station New York, but I have to return it next week as my real copy from Amazon is coming on the 15th since I did a standard shipping, and pre-ordered it late."

Lol. Nice plan.

Apparently my Amazon prime was really worth it this time.

My hard back copy has arrived. At last the culmination of years.

This is the first actual book, rather than ebook and audible versions, that I have actually bought in quite a while. Is this true for anyone else? I had to get the last one in the series to finish the set that I've built up.

Rob wrote: "Kevin wrote: "I just got mine today at Penn Station New York, but I have to return it next week as my real copy from Amazon is coming on the 15th since I did a standard shipping, and pre-ordered it..."

I'm going to return it once it comes back. I got a free tote bag with The Yiddish Policemen's Union on it, which comes with every hardcover or two paperbacks. I don't know if I also give that back when I return it.

@Noel This is the first dead-tree book I've bought in quite a while as well. My brother lives in SLC and went to the midnight release to get both of us copies signed and personalized by Harriet and Brandon. Super excited to get that but couldn't wait so I'll just sell the copy I bought to my little used book store down the street once I'm done.

Ok, so actual discussion time: Spoiler for Prologue only (That is as far as I've got.)
(view spoiler)[ I feel stupid now for not anticipating the evil-Turned male Aiel channelers. I should have known they wouldn't mention that ability for nothing. Way to go, Aiel. It's super awesome and dramatic to go "spitting in Sight-blinders eye" but it seems they handed the Dark One a pretty potent and f-ed up weapon in the bargain. Cool. I really love the Aiel, they are some of my favorites and I have to say I'm excited about this new twisty-twist. Who saw this coming?
Also, I remember towards the end of one of the previous books, probably ToM, they mentioned someone coming upon Aiel and then being horrified to realize that they had pointy teeth and were not there to help. I've been wracking my brain but I just can't remember any more about that scene. Someone help me out please, who was that? (hide spoiler)]


OMGeeze, haven't been this hyped about a book since... Ever?

I find it completely appropriate that the prologue took me 2-3 hours to listen too!

Through Chapter One and I'm loving it so far.

I also love that one of my favorite secondary characters, Talmanes, is getting so much page time in the early going. I didn't put this in spoiler tag because I'm not saying what happened and saying Talmanes is getting page time is no more spoilery than saying Rand is getting page time.

@Katrina. If I recall right it was Lan and his army who encountered the pointy teethed Aiel at the end of Towers of Midnight.

I'm feeling kind of bittersweet about the book though because I'm already 1/10th of the way done and when I finish the series is truly done. Back before Robert Jordan died I'd always thought there would be prequel novels from Lews Therin's time but now this is it. Brandon has said that he and Harriet agree that this will be the end.

I also love that one of my favorite secondary characters, Talmanes, is getting so much page time in the early going. "

@Katrina yeah. I forgot all about them.

Yeah. I thought that was great too.

I forget what chapter I'm on now, but Mat finally showed up! It took 240 pages, but he's there.

But now he's gone again for like 50 more pages from my skimming so I'm sad.

Due to Facebook, I'm finding out today that some people I went to high school with are WoT fans. I didn't start reading it until I was in college.

Ok so I figured it out, see my earlier post (message 13). (view spoiler)[ It was a merchant traveling in Kandor, on the way to resupply one of the defensive towers. A side character named Barriga. http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Barriga (hide spoiler)]

@Rob Without spoiling anything, you'll have TONS of Mat's POV in this book. I was lucky in that a stock clerk in an undisclosed store stocked the shelves with AMoL last Friday. I was finished by early Sunday morning and am about halfway through my second read-through now. I wasn't ready for it to end so I just started back at the beginning. It is a fantastic ending, worthy of this remarkable series. The battle scenes are phenomenal and very, very epic. Enjoy!

I stayed up til 3am trying to finish, only made it to page 700 and now I'm in work exhausted. Still totally worth it.

Through Chapter 7 (page 202)so far and after a great start I'm finding myself sort of disappointed. I felt very let down by the gathering where Rand announced his plans (not a spoiler since this gathering was set up at the end of last book). I'll have to think about it for a while longer to really put my finger on it but I think it was just so anti climactic. And then the scene in that gathering where (view spoiler)[ Moraine walks in (hide spoiler)] was disappointing too given the anticipation of it and (view spoiler)[ everyone just seemed so ho-hum about it. (hide spoiler)] Hopefully things pick up again soon and this was just a blip.

Kate wrote: "I stayed up til 3am trying to finish, only made it to page 700 and now I'm in work exhausted. Still totally worth it."

I can relate. I work nights (I'm on break right now) and instead of taking the 2 hr nap before work that I should have since I only got 4 hrs sleep earlier in the day I was reading.

Rik wrote: "Kate wrote: "I stayed up til 3am trying to finish, only made it to page 700 and now I'm in work exhausted. Still totally worth it."

I can relate. I work nights (I'm on break right now) and instea..."

Pro tip: If you find yourself thinking, 'I'll sleep as soon as I finish this chapter', make sure it's not Chapter 37, because that is almost 200 pages long.

Nina wrote: "@Rob Without spoiling anything, you'll have TONS of Mat's POV in this book. I was lucky in that a stock clerk in an undisclosed store stocked the shelves with AMoL last Friday. I was finished by ea..."

Awesome good to know!

@Rik I guess I didn't think about that too much when I was reading it, but you're right, especially about your second point.

I forget exactly where this was in my reading last night, so best I can say is somewhere before page 260 (view spoiler)[I was even more disappointed that they seemed to gloss over Moranie's reunion with Lan. Rand mentions how there is a strain there, but that's about it.

Is that due to her giving her Warder bond of him over to Myrelle? I know he wanted to be all dramatic and die.

Maybe they explain it/have it out later, where I was just a brief part where Rand went to help Lan and Moraine came with him. (hide spoiler)]


Kate wrote: "Rik wrote: "Pro tip: If you find yourself thinking, 'I'll sleep as soon as I finish this chapter', make sure it's not Chapter 37, because that is almost 200 pages long"

Wow. Damn. I guess it's probably a good thing I won't get to that point till the weekend when I don't have worry about silly things like sleep, or work.

Rik wrote: "Through Chapter 7 (page 202)so far and after a great start I'm finding myself sort of disappointed. I felt very let down by the gathering where Rand announced his plans..."

Rik: Funny, page 202 is exactly where I stopped last night too! So question: what about Rand's plans did you find disappointing? I was not too surprised by his plan, knowing that all through the series he has been (view spoiler)[ trying to get people to work together peacefully and without all the political nonsense (I'm thinking of his plans for one country to supply another, etc, from earlier in the series) (hide spoiler)]. Is it just less exciting than you wanted, or do you think it's a bad idea on his part? I thought it was interesting how (view spoiler)[ Aviendha came up with a good solution to her vision of the Aiel's future (hide spoiler)].

Overall I'm very pleased with the book so far... I'm even taking my time to enjoy each word, rather than my usual skim-reading that I too often do to get to the more exciting bits. Plus, it helps that this book has very few dull parts so far, at least in my mind.

I've figured out what I'm not liking about the book and that is that too many scenes feel rushed without enough details. I think thats what bothered me about the meeting. I was expecting some big dramatic conference that was going to take up a long time and instead it seemed like it was over in 15 pages or so.

And then there is the fact that I feel utterly utterly let down with Moraine's storyline. Her (view spoiler)[ appearance in the conference was anticlimactic (hide spoiler)] and like Rob I'm very disappointed that we didn't (view spoiler)[ get to see her reunion with Lan. I was completely looking forward to seeing Moraine leading the charge to save Lan during battle and instead we get a very ho hum scene that is after their off page reunion. (hide spoiler)] Plus Rand (view spoiler)[ really seemed ho-hum about it. Nynaeve is really the only character whose reaction to Moraine I felt satisfied with. (hide spoiler)]

It seems odd to be complaining about a series this long for not having enough details but that really is what it is for me. I would have much rather have had fewer battle scenes in the early going and instead have more fleshed out dramatic scenes between characters.

The book has gotten better now though that its Perrin centric for a bit as I'm now up to page 297 and Perrin is (view spoiler)[ attacking the black tower with Lanfear's help. (hide spoiler)] These are the kind of areas that Sanderson excels in so I do think the Final Battle that apparently runs 200 pages is going to be great, I'm just worried that we are missing out on a lot of characterization for the sake of the next battle scene.

I don't know how everyone else feels, but I love how much space he devoted to Androl and Pevara. I just love them, especially after he (view spoiler)[summoned a GIANT STREAM OF LAVA FROM THE DEPTHS OF DRAGONMOUNT ITSELF (hide spoiler)]. That and Logain (view spoiler)[deciding to give up the sa'angreal and help the refugees; then they all thank him and it's all adorable. (hide spoiler)] Then there's when Olver (view spoiler)[ gets reunited with Noal after he blows the horn (hide spoiler)]. It's definitely a book with a lot of good moments.

Rik wrote: "The book has gotten better now though that its Perrin centric for a bit as I'm now up to page 297 and Perrin is [spoilers removed] These are the kind of areas that Sanderson excels in so I do thi..."

I enjoyed that part as well.

@Kevin it would be helpful if you could include some kind of page/chapter references with your spoilers so people have an idea if they should read them or not. As I'm on on page 400 or so at this point I haven't read any of them for fear that I haven't reached there yet.

I had completely forgotten about Olver though. I don't even remember what he was doing last. I look forward to catch up with him later in the book.

Up to page 538 now and hope to hammer out another 50-60 pages before I go to bed. Sanderson really does do battle scenes well since the last 100-200 pages or so have all been battle for the most part. Might even finish the book tonight since I don't have to work.

I forget what chapter/page this is from (before page 390 at least), but at some point Rand gives Tam (view spoiler)[a heron blade. He says it belonged to a "kindred" spirit. (hide spoiler)] I can't for the life of me remember where that came from. Can someone refresh my memory?

I finished it yesterday, and you're going to love it. And hate it. And love it again. After all it is the end of the world. Spoilers will follow once more of you finish.

Skip wrote: "I finished it yesterday, and you're going to love it. And hate it. And love it again. After all it is the end of the world. Spoilers will follow once more of you finish."

Feel free to post spoilers now if you like, just do so with spoiler tags.

Making mention that they are spoilers pertaining to the full book would be helpful.

My real copy from Amazon said it was delivered yesterday at the front door, but I was not home at the time, so I did not get it. Amazon switched this time from UPS to Fedex, and I think overall Fedex does a worse job than UPS.

Like someone else said when you do put spoilers try to use page numbers too so those of us still working through it can know if its safe or not.

*Never mind* I finished the book so I know the answer and it appears I right except for the one little thing at the end of my question.

I've got a question about the Horn of Valere and Mat though I have a feeling the question itself might be spoilerish since my question implies a possible spoiler that I think is going to happen. As such I'm going to put the question in spoiler text.

Anyway (view spoiler)[ I'm to the point of the book where Faile, superbrat, and others are in the Blight with the Horn of Valere. Everyone seems to think that only Mat can blow the horn but since he died way back in book four or so doesn't that reset the horn so anyone can blow it now? I'm expecting Olver the Wonderbrat to blow it though if he is the reincarnation of Gaidal Cain it'll be interesting to see if he summons himself. (hide spoiler)]

Don't know if anyone can actually answer that without spoiling things for me so if you can't just ignore my question.

Well I just finished and I'm not quite sure how to feel as I'm sort of in shock that its over. It was a good ending though the tonal shift between Jordan's writing style and Sandersons felt rather abrupt since the epilogue was apparently 98% Jordan whereas the rest of the book was Sanderson. I definitely could feel the change and it kind of made the epilogue feel odd.

Thoughts overall:

As I said earlier I thought the beginning was kind of anti climactic and frustrating. I really wanted to see a particular scene between two characters.

The rest of the book though was awesome. Brandon did a great job of writing what amounted to about 700 pages of one long battle.

*MAJOR SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T FINISHED SO CLICK AT YOUR OWN RISK* I was very shocked by one particular death (view spoiler)[ Egwene (hide spoiler)] and kind of shocked that it (view spoiler)[ was really the only one truly major light side death as everyone else that died was a 2nd tier character - in my mind the main tier are Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve, Elayne, Min, Aviendha, Thom, Lan, and Moraine. I was disappointed that my two least favorite characters, Faile and Cadsuane, lived. (hide spoiler)]

Overall though it was very satisfying end to the series and my complaints are mild overall.

I understand why there will be no sequels but I still wish there could be so we could see if Aiel future comes to pass or not.

Anyone else going to do a re-read? I've decided that in a few weeks I'm going to though technically it will be a re-listen as I've got a bunch of physical / ebook stuff to read but I listen to stuff while at work. I need to finish the audio book I'm on and then two others that are the sequels to a series I'm listening to and then its on to New Spring. Figure it will about two weeks when I start.

Finished the Audible version today. Enjoyed the book mostly, until the epilogue. Just as most questions get answered, we get the epilogue that poses more. I wish his estate would open the world a bit for other authors to write some 4th age books. Many of the minor characters get decent endings, one way or the other. But many of the main characters have their endings kinda left up in the air. Overall it's a decent end to the series, but I want more.

Rik wrote: "*Never mind* I finished the book so I know the answer and it appears I right except for the one little thing at the end of my question.

I've got a question about the Horn of Valere and Mat thoug..."

Read on.

One thing that took me by surprise was how Mat got released from the horn. It wasn't the incident I thought it was. Thought it was the hanging from the tree, but one of the Heroes tells Matt it was a different event.

Finished it. Loved it. No complaints.

Spoiler for the end/whole book:

So who does everyone think (view spoiler)[was the woman Rand saw/thought he saw helping him escape from Shayol Ghul?

Given age and the comment of Aiel dress, I'm thinking it was his mother.

My other thought was maybe it was Cadsuane, despite the Aiel dress, but that was debunked with her reaction at his funeral (hide spoiler)]

Also, maybe this got lost in the shuffle, this is a spoiler from the first 400 pages or less (view spoiler)[at some point Rand gives Tam a heron blade. He says it belonged to a "kindred" spirit. (hide spoiler)] Can anyone remember/tell me where that came from?

Rob wrote: "Spoiler for the end/whole book:



I'm pretty sure that the person you asked about was (view spoiler)[ Nakomi. The same person Aviendha saw in the last book. Brandon also seemed to confirm that it was Nakomi in a recent interview. Exactly what Nakomi represents is the question though the consensus on Dragonmount.com seems to be she is manifestation of the creator. (hide spoiler)]

@Rik ah. OK. Forgot about her. Thanks.

I am about a quarter of the way through so far. The book has been amazing. Hopefully he whole thing holds up.

I just finished the book, and I have to say that I'm definitely feeling bittersweet about it. It was amazing, but it's sad that it's over. I do have a very spoiler-y question though (this pertains to the VERY end, so read at your own risk!): (view spoiler)[ at the end after Rand is on his own, he finds he cannot channel anything anymore. But, he then wants to light his pipe and is able to do so with just thoughts... What does this mean for Rand? Did the Creator grant him some special powers? (hide spoiler)]

Mohrravvian wrote: "I just finished the book, and I have to say that I'm definitely feeling bittersweet about it. It was amazing, but it's sad that it's over. I do have a very spoiler-y question though (this pertains ..."

Maybe (view spoiler)[ Nakomi, who was likely a manifestation of the Creator, passed the torch to Rand and now he is the creator. If the Dragon is reborn in every age then why not the Creator? (hide spoiler)]

Finished last night, I loved every bit of it. Just the right balance of fan service and pacing, resolved and dangling threads, grueling battle scenes and character drama.

Did anyone actually think (view spoiler)[Elayne was going to get a forced C-section? I mean, we've had Mat's eye, Galad's arm, Rand's hand and various other wounds, Egwene's death... it's not like the series has been above inflicting grievous bodily harm on its protagonists, especially in this book, but that whole thing seemed a little too moustache-twirling to take seriously. (hide spoiler)]