The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

This is the thread to discuss the first three chapters of the novel Martin Chuzzlewit. Please post your thoughts below. And as usual, it is totally kosher to ask each other questions. Well, it is highly appreciated:-)

And the new journey begins! I hope it will be full of fun, stimulating, engaging, and thought-provoking discussion, and definitely full of reading pleasure.
Dickens does not lose time time and starts with the very interesting historical preface as a recourse. The question is why. Most of it is fictitious and delightfully tongue-in-cheeky, but the reader learns nothing except that Dickens shares with us his wonderful talent of a story-teller and imagination.

Chapter two is too long, but because Dickens attempts to cover so much that you can see that it is semantically split into two lines - the Pecksniffs and Mr. Pinch.
The Pecksniffs are absolutely delightful in the meaning that they are horrendously swellheaded and egotistic. And self-loving, and delusional, and preachy, and hilarious. Unfortunately, it is also clear that they are not harmless, thus beware! Mr. Pecksniff is, as we learn form the dialogue between Mr Pinch and his friend, Mr. Westlock, is a true parasite who thrives on the artistic talents of his gullible apprentices.
This chapter is somewhat reminiscent of another Dickens's early novel, Nicholas Nickleby, where the Dotheboys headmaster pocketed the money of his poor pupils. This time Mr. Pecksniff is much more exquisite in extolling the money from his pupils, but the problem still persists - the social abuse of the position and the manipulation of the innocent.

Charity and Mercy are both interesting and formulaic. Dickens definitely makes us believe that they are spinsters; they are true treasure-troves for any novel. Their portrayal in the first chapters is totally asexual and fully contented, but it is also obviously deceitful. By the way, Dickens does not mention their age. Is it because they are spinsters or is it his next trick because by their language they are very infantile. But the discourse is deceitful and might be employed as a comical effect.

Finally we also meet Martin Chuzzlewit, the old, feisty, and grumpy individual. It is obvious from the description that he is a self-made man, and his greed is determined not by his nature, but his disillusionment in people who used to surround him and possibly let him down.
It is also interesting to note that both Mary and Mr. Chuzzlewit are using Christian names when addressing each other. So, is Dickens a visionary, showing us the world of his future when most businesses accept this policy of semi-formal appellation or is he an egalitarian?
The beginning of the novel, if not intriguing, is at least hilarious.

These three introductory chapters are rather amusing in setting up what will obviously be a picaresque novel. In Chapter One, it is interesting that the term “pedigree” is used for the Chuzzlewit family line because that seems to denote animal breeding and purebreds. The narcissism of this section is blatant and makes me want to instantly dislike who will apparently become the eponymous protagonist of the novel; Dickens seems to be establishing a humorous, if obnoxious, character base, making me wonder what the farce is going to be in the novel.

I enjoyed the opening of Chapter Two with its poetic description of nature and the anthropomorphizing of the wind. The Pecksniffs seem to be very shallow characters despite their names—Charity and Mercy; in fact, their nicknames, Cherry and Merry, seem to be more accurate. The conversation between Mr. Pinch and John Westlock struck me as being similar to “A Christmas Carol.” Mr. Pinch seems akin to Bob Cratchitt in his honest ignorance and goodwill, defending Mr. Pecksniff, who is somewhat likened to Scrooge in the way he takes advantage of Mr. Pinch. The issue of money and its associated evils, as purported by the elder Mr. Chuzzlewit, seem to hint at part of the novel’s plot. Is his grandson after his money, or possibly is Mr. Pecksniff? A curious start to the novel…

What a start! I am already intrigued by this novel.
Zulfiya, you are right saying that Dickens shows his fantastic talent as a story-teller in the first chapters. I thought his first chapter was not only to introduce the Chuzzlewit family in a historic way, but also to give us first hints on what the novel might be about.
To me it was the introduction to a satire:
The Chuzzlewits seem to be the heroes, but on the expense of others (e.g. ... they lead soldiers into their deaths, but returned themselves home gracefully to their families).

You can already identify these features in Mr. Pecksniff in the later chapters, who calls himself an architect, never having really built anything, living of his "students", but not really giving anything in return, being regarded almost as a wise man, but not having to say anyhting else, but repeating the things that have been said by the ones seeking his wisdom (reference to the scene, when the landlady of the Blue Dragon calls him for help with the old man/ Mr. Martin Chuzzlewit.

One of the Chuzzlewits has even conspired in the Gunpowder Plot, an attempt to assassinate King James I in the beginning of the 17th century.
I think the major message of this chapter is in its last sentences when Dickens is hinting on how egotistic human mankind is and how men do play tricks and maybe by doing that hide their real intentions of helping themselves to a better situation.

In chapter 2, I loved the descriptions, the personification of things, the lights and sounds and all the emotions. As a reader, I was completely drawn into this world. It felt so lively, a feeling I have not felt that much in his last books we read, except maybe for the scenes of the industrial town in OCS and the description of the riots in BR, but that was at a far later stage of the novels.
The description of the men clustered around the hearth like crickets reminded me of our little Christmas story. Whether they also bring happiness to the house around the hearth? ;-)
And then Dickens starts to be comical again, which reminded me of the Pickwick Papers.
Is Dickens trying to get back to his earlier successes?

You, Zulfiya and Sarah, have already mentioned Mr. Pecksniff and his relationship to his "students" as well as Mercy/ Merry and Charity/ Cherry, which I found particularly funny and satirical names.

It just seems to become a story of a lot of witty, comical and satirical moments and maybe a whole lot of social criticism with regards to hypocrisy.
I am really looking forward to this...

BTW, there is a BBC adaptation of the novel with Tom Wilkinson as Mr. Pecksniff.

I'm not sure what I think about it so far. It didn't grab me right away like Nicholas Nickleby or Barnaby Rudge.

But with that said, I think I'm going to like it. Chapter 3 started to get me sucked into the story.

I agree with Zulfiya that Chapter 2 was way too long, and I can already tell that I'm not going to like Pecksniff and his two daughters. And also as Zulfiya wrote, reminded me of Squeers and his daughter in Nicholas Nickleby (although not as bad).

What really struck me was Martin Chuzzlewit's thoughts on money and how money corrupts: "Treachery, deceit, and low design; hatred of competitors, real or fancied, for my favor; meansness, falsehood, baseness and servility; or...an assumption of honest independence, almost worse than all." Etc. Etc.

On one hand, he's right. People do all sorts of horrid things for money. But of course, he doesn't see that he has allowed those people to destroy his own life by making isolating him and making him distrust everyone around him.

I wonder if the young Martin is as "false hearted" as old Martin claims him to be. Something to look forward to...

Hedi wrote: BTW, there is a BBC adaptation of the novel with Tom Wilkinson as Mr. Pecksniff.
."

I want to watch this when I'm done with the novel. I like Tom Wilkinson...

Sarah wrote: "These three introductory chapters are rather amusing in setting up what will obviously be a picaresque novel. In Chapter One, it is interesting that the term “pedigree” is used for the Chuzzlewit f..."

I really like how Dickens can give a sharp, pinpoint description using only one word. "Pedigree" is one of those brilliant cases. A word that tells a story!

I was hysterical in the meaning that I was giggling uncontrollably when I was reading the beginning of the second chapter - Mr. Pecksniff on his back at the bottom of the steps, experiencing 'the general illumination' and his daughter being playful about some 'unknown' stranger. Oh, the Pecksniffs!

I love the names Dickens gives his supporting cast. It seems to give this wonderful visual of what they might look like. The names spoken aloud make for a good chuckle. I am amazed at writers who can take words and paint a scene of Chaplin-like physical comedy. Dickens does that with his prose and subtly with the character names. And Pecksniff and Pinch do not disappoint.

As for what even struck me most, I am intrigued by the relationship between old Chuzzlewit and Mary. He spoke of not leaving her any money on his death and his reason. Will she be the one who loves him without the enticement of money?

In Chapter One, I got the joke about a Chuzzlewit's father being "the Lord No Zoo" (Knows Who) and also about possessions being "at my uncle's" (the pawnshop) but I did not know "dining with Duke Humphrey" so I looked it up to find it means to go without eating.

Mr. Pecksniff is not as repulsive as Squeers but certainly in the same vein. The description of the youngest Miss Pecksniff as "kittenish" and childlike though also "buxom" is a bit creepy - "she even wore a pinafore and how charming THAT was" - especially knowing Dickens' fondness for very young women.

I thought of Mr Pinch as a not so damaged Smike, but I think Sarah is closer with Bob Cratchit, who refuses to say bad things about his stingy employer.

As in a Shakespeare play, Dickens has his noble tragic characters and his lower comic characters and when he brings them together it can be rather jarring. Pecksniff is ready to take charge of whatever is needed at the inn but finds himself taken aback by the vision and words of old Martin. Mary is certainly a contrast with Merry Pecksniff. Unfortunately, I foresee a tiresome little saint on the order of Nell, devoting herself to an old man.

Robin wrote: "In Chapter One, I got the joke about a Chuzzlewit's father being "the Lord No Zoo" (Knows Who) and also about possessions being "at my uncle's" (the pawnshop) but I did not know "dining with Duke H..."

I have to confess - I would have never understood the linguistic brilliance of the first chapter without the extensive commentary. :-)

As far as Nell is concerned, everyone loves to hate her, so she has a purpose in literature, and yes, Dickens likes victimizing young and innocent ladies. .... Hmm, reading between the lines and psychoanalysis are a part of reading fun.

After reading Dickens characterisations, do you go around seeing similar people walking the streets of your town today and mentally pigeonholing them as he did? We all use the word Scrooge to denote a person who is niggardly about Xmas - are there other Dickensian characters who have crept into our vocabulary or thinking?

Robin wrote: "In Chapter One, I got the joke about a Chuzzlewit's father being "the Lord No Zoo" (Knows Who) and also about possessions being "at my uncle's" (the pawnshop) but I did not know "dining with Duke H..."

Thank you for this illumination! I didn't catch that during my reading! :-)

Hi all, I'm with you on this. I just finished the last chirp as I was caught up in the Three Musketeers, among other books.

Christopher wrote: "Hi all, I'm with you on this. I just finished the last chirp as I was caught up in the Three Musketeers, among other books."

Don't we all like those cloak-and-dagger novels?

I believe most of my thoughts have already been said. I too thought of Nell and her grandfather when the girl and old man were first mentioned. Hopefully Marry won't be quite as disgustingly angelic as Nell.

Thanks Robin for the clarification about "Lord No Zoo" and "Dining with Lord Humphrey." I missed the meanings of those as well.

It is good to have Dickens editions with notes but since I already own a paperback without notes and I also have it on my iPad I couldn't justify buying an additional copy. If people have relevant notes as we go along, feel free to share them.

Zulfiya, The Three Musketeers is one of my all-time favorite books, and I am currently reading The Black Count, about Dumas' father, a Napoleonic hero and the inspiration for some of Dumas' swashbuckling characters.

Robin wrote: "It is good to have Dickens editions with notes but since I already own a paperback without notes and I also have it on my iPad I couldn't justify buying an additional copy. If people have relevant..."

Robin, good thinking! I am going to post some of those comments that explain cultural lacunae. My commentary section is not exhaustive, neither is is comprehensive, but there are some enlightening comments that are worth sharing!

Shannon wrote: "I believe most of my thoughts have already been said. I too thought of Nell and her grandfather when the girl and old man were first mentioned. Hopefully Marry won't be quite as disgustingly angeli..."

Shannon, what a lovely oxymoron - disgustingly angelic!

Zulfiya wrote: "Shannon wrote: "I believe most of my thoughts have already been said. I too thought of Nell and her grandfather when the girl and old man were first mentioned. Hopefully Marry won't be quite as dis..."

Reminds me of the Oscar Wilde quote: "One would have to have a heart of stone to read of the death of Little Nell without laughing."

I do think we are in for more saintly suffering with Mary. Dickens never could resist an angelic orphan, although his characterizations do get more interesting in later novels, such as Esther Summerson in Bleak House.

Amanda wrote: "Zulfiya wrote: "Shannon wrote: "I believe most of my thoughts have already been said. I too thought of Nell and her grandfather when the girl and old man were first mentioned. Hopefully Marry won't..."

Actually, I like Esther Summerson, the plain lady with the pitted skin and a big heart!:-)

MadgeUK wrote: "After reading Dickens characterisations, do you go around seeing similar people walking the streets of your town today and mentally pigeonholing them as he did? We all use the word Scrooge to deno..."

Besides Scrooge, I think Dodger is another character that has become a part of my venacular. Even my children use him as a character in their pretend play as the bad friend that is always getting the other doll in trouble.

Sarah wrote: "These three introductory chapters are rather amusing in setting up what will obviously be a picaresque novel. In Chapter One, it is interesting that the term “pedigree” is used for the Chuzzlewit f..."

After reading the three chapters, I was struck by the extent of the anthropomorphization as Sarah mentions. Beyond the wind, leaves, forge and bellows at the beginning of chapter two, the dragon from the sign at the Blue Dragon Inn sticks out the most.

But also somewhat unique and interesting were Mary's hair: "Her dark brown hair, disordered from the same cause, had fallen negligently from its bonds, and hung upon her neck; for which instance of its waywardness no male observer would have had the heart to blame it."

And Mr. Pecksniff's back: "'Who is with him now,' ruminated Mr Pecksniff, warming his back (as he had warmed his hands) as if it were a widow's back, or an orphan's back, or an enemy's back, or a back that any less excellent man would have suffered to be cold."

I don't recall Dickens using this technique to such a degree in the earlier novels and I found it charming.

I really enjoyed the discourse between Pinch and John Westlock. John has quite the turn of phrase and I'm sorry we won't see him anymore...although this is Dickens, so he could come back around again.

Amanda wrote: "Reminds me of the Oscar Wilde quote: "One would have to have a heart of stone to read of the death of Little Nell without laughing." "

Great quote. And true. Leave it to Oscar Wilde to put it so succinctly.

MadgeUK wrote: "After reading Dickens characterisations, do you go around seeing similar people walking the streets of your town today and mentally pigeonholing them as he did? We all use the word Scrooge to deno..."

Great question.

I'm not sure if any character has the same universal reference as Scrooge, but he has many memorable characters that definitely bring a particular image to mind. As someone said, the Artful Dodger. And Fagin and Oliver himself. Miss Havisham. David Copperfield and of course Uriah Heep (one creepy dude).

Lynnm wrote: "Hedi wrote: BTW, there is a BBC adaptation of the novel with Tom Wilkinson as Mr. Pecksniff.
."

I want to watch this when I'm done with the novel. I like Tom Wilkinson..."

I started watching the video, just as far as we have gotten, so not much, but so far it's very faithful. I was heartened to see the screenplay was done by David Lodge. For any of you English lit fans, or if you ever studied it at a university, I recommend Lodge's academic satires, especially Trading Places, Small World and Nice Work. Maybe a little dated now but he skewers professors of English and world literature (which he was himself) and the whole of academia.

Zulfiya wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Zulfiya wrote: "Shannon wrote: "I believe most of my thoughts have already been said. I too thought of Nell and her grandfather when the girl and old man were first mentioned. Hopefu..."

I like Esther too. She is a very sympathetic character and she does speak up for herself unlike some of Dickens' other suffering orphans.

Dickens uses the suffering orphan character in his later novels, but he does make them more believable. They come across as real human beings with flaws. Esther, David Copperfield and Pip are much more well-defined than Little Nell or even Oliver.

We'll have to wait and see what Dickens does with Mary.

MadgeUK wrote: "After reading Dickens characterisations, do you go around seeing similar people walking the streets of your town today and mentally pigeonholing them as he did? We all use the word Scrooge to deno..."

In medicine we speak of Pickwickian Syndrome-a sort of sleep apnea and related problems which is caused by massive obesity.

Lynnm wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "Aof course Uriah Heep (one creepy dude). "

Who could forget Uriah? The only Dickens character I know of that has a rock band named after him.

Although musicians are missing some golden opportunities (Sairey Gamp for one).

Is it not rather unusual for Mary to call the much older man Martin? The narrator also calls him Martin, although Pecksniff and Pinch are called by their last names.

Frances wrote: "Is it not rather unusual for Mary to call the much older man Martin? The narrator also calls him Martin, although Pecksniff and Pinch are called by their last names."

It is QUITE unusual. That is why it led to so many suspicions, secret speculations, and a certain dubiety.

And it also seems like they were traveling alone together, which is really out of place. Despite the age difference, there would normally be a female companion as well since Mary and Martin are not related. I'll have to go back and read the part again where they arrive at the hotel...maybe I didn't account for everyone in the carriage. Even though Mary is not a "lady" per say (from what we know so far), any respectable man of that day would not compromise a young woman's reputation so blatantly. Interested to see where this relationship is going....

As we are all using different editions with and without notes and maybe also with and without illustrations, I wanted to post the following link to a website that shows all the illustrations by Phiz:

http://www.victorianweb.org/art/illus...

P.S.: I am posting this via my iPod and am not sure whether the link will work. I will check that later today and edit if necessary.

It seems to work. :-)

Lauri wrote: "And it also seems like they were traveling alone together, which is really out of place. Despite the age difference, there would normally be a female companion as well since Mary and Martin are not..."

Didn't Martin say that he adopted her? It was brought up initially that it was inappropriate, but then he said he adopted her.

He talked about "... I have bred and educated, or, if you prefer the word, adopted."
I am not sure whether he meant the adoption in a legal way here, too, or only in a social way.
It did remind me a little of Estelle and Miss Havisham in Great Expectations, but I think the relationship there is a little clearer.

Hedi wrote: "He talked about "... I have bred and educated, or, if you prefer the word, adopted."
I am not sure whether he meant the adoption in a legal way here, too, or only in a social way.
It did remind me..."

Thanks for the clarification.

Not sure what society would have thought of their relationship.

I don't have an edition with notes. Does anyone have any notes in their editions on this point?

Lynnm wrote: "I don't have an edition with notes. Does anyone have any notes in their editions on this point?
..."
Unfortunately, this is - I think - my only novel by Dickens without any notes. So, I would be interested in some input of you all.

I have some notes, but they are not comprehensive - three or four words are explained in the footnotes. I promise I will post them with every next section we will read.

Lynnm wrote: "Hedi wrote: "He talked about "... I have bred and educated, or, if you prefer the word, adopted."
I am not sure whether he meant the adoption in a legal way here, too, or only in a social way.
It ..."

In the same passage Martin does somewhat explain their use of Christian names.

"There is a compact between us that no term of affectionate cajolery shall ever be addressed either to the other, but that she shall always call me by my Christian name: I her, by hers."

Just finished the first three chapters as I work on getting caught up with the group. I had a hard time getting interested in the book - it seems a little flat compared to some of his other works. From what I've read , sales of the installments really dropped with this novel so maybe his contemporary audience felt the flatness as well? I also wonder if the poor sales were what caused him to abandon the picaresque style (Chuzzlewit is said to be the last of his picaresque novels)? In any event I'm glad he made the switch because his later works are much more mature and complex.

I think this line pretty much sums up Mr. Pecksniff's character: "Some people likened him to a direction-post, which is always telling the way to a place, and never goes there." In other words, he's a hypocrite.

I get the feeling that his daughters are hot messes as well. Mercy is described as delightful and playful but some of the details about her (and knowing Dickens) I'm thinking more along the lines of obnoxious and immature. Charity is labeled prudent and is the more serious sister, which in Dickensworld usually means she's a nasty shrew.

I got the jokes about "Lord No Zoo" and his "Uncle" but wasn't sure what the "dining with Lord Humphrey" meant, so thanks for sharing! One more confirmation of my impression that the entire exalted family lineage section was a tongue-in-cheek description of a family full of self-important social climbers.

You all did a great job of summing up my thoughts on other points so I'll finish by saying I'm looking forward to finding out what kind of schemes Pecksniff will invent to get his hands on the elder Chuzzlewit's money.

Jennifer wrote: "Just finished the first three chapters as I work on getting caught up with the group. I had a hard time getting interested in the book - it seems a little flat compared to some of his other works. ..."

I read this book a few months ago. I don't particularly recall a flat start, although I do remember reading that his sales were lower during the time this was written. I have read about half of Dickens' novels, he is my favorite author, and this is my favorite book of his. So, hang in there; it gets good!

Jonathan, thank you for your words of encouragement.

Jennifer, it does get better, but it is primordially the novel of human vices. Besides, some episodes are truly hilarious.