SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I read the first Dresden Files book when it came out and thought it was kind of weak. Nice ideas, not very well written. Everyone was raving about the latest book so I picked up the second installment... and I'm struggling with it. I'm just not buying these characters, the dialogue is excruciating and some of the situations just leave me wondering if Butcher has ever met a real person.

Which is strange, because every time I've seen Butcher give a talk or an interview, I have found his ideas and his way of thinking about Fantasy to be fascinating. He has some really great ideas. But his way of expressing them is leaving me cold.

I want to read that one about the T. Rex, but not if it's like this. My friend tells me I need to read all the books in order to understand what's going on, but I just can't. Not if they continue like this.

Do they get better? Which ones can I skip?

I thought the first three or four were good but they rapidly get better from there. I would not skip any to be honest

Read wiki summaries of the first four or so. Then read book five.

If you're not liking them that much I don't know if you're going to enjoy starting later in the series. Do they get better? I believe so, but I don't think it's that drastic. I'd do the wiki summaries though if your wanting to read the one with the T-Rex.

Trike,

I, too, failed to make it through the second book of the Dresden Files. The dialogue was just lame, and no characters seemed believable.

You might try picking up Butcher's "Codex Alera" series. The first one is "Furies of Calderon." I enjoyed all the books in that series.

Thanks for the input, everyone. I'm just finding the book a slog, so I guess I'll give up on them. Maybe I'll try the dinosaur one in a few years.

Personally, I love the series, but if you didn't like the first one, you should just stop. They do get better, but it's still the same main character and they are written in the same style. It's okay to dislike something that you feel like you should like. It happens to everyone.

Maybe you should consider giving the audiobooks a go.. !?
They are narrated really well (by James Marsters) and he really brings the characters to life.
Dresdens humor also get through a lot better, than on paper.

The second and the first books are the two weakest of the series, but some of the characters that gets introduced here, you will want to know the back-story of if you get hooked later.

Mike wrote: "Personally, I love the series, but if you didn't like the first one, you should just stop. They do get better, but it's still the same main character and they are written in the same style. It's ok..."

I totally agree with this. I loved the series even with some things I felt were flaws. Butcher is pretty consistent. His writing skills improve with time, though I never felt he was bad, but he's still got the same style and if you don't like his stuff in the first one, my guess is you won't like it later.

I've read 7 or so of them by now, and they stay pretty much the same IMO. The T-Rex bit probably bumped that particular book up one star, but that's about it. I read them when I can't be bothered reading anything with substance (the way I read Charlaine Harris or Kim Harrison), but I can't read more than 1-2 at a time or they grate on my nerves something awful.

I would skip the first two books, which are really not needed, and just start on the third book, that is where all the action starts.

Trike wrote: "I read the first Dresden Files book when it came out and thought it was kind of weak. Nice ideas, not very well written. Everyone was raving about the latest book so I picked up the second installm..."

That is how I felt about his Codex Alera series, really weak, even though I know many who love it.

Evilynn wrote: "I've read 7 or so of them by now, and they stay pretty much the same IMO. The T-Rex bit probably bumped that particular book up one star, but that's about it. I read them when I can't be bothered r..."

Exactly. I totally agree.

I tried to read the first book several times, just couldn't get into it. But I kept hearing how good the audiobooks are Storm Front, James Marsters is the narrator. Now I really enjoy the books. I just needed a different medium.

I found the Iron Druid series by Kevin Hearne and I'm enjoying them far more. Part of the problem I was having with Dresden was that I didn't find the characters believable, especially the cops, both local and federal.

The Iron Druid avoids that issue by having the main character an Iron Age-era druid who owns a New Age bookshop and tea room, whose customers include witches, both wannabes and real. His lawyers are comprised of werewolves (for the day) and vampires (for night). There's no real-world stuff to trip him up.

I'm halfway through the second book and so far in the first two entries we've met various Celtic deities (the Morrigan, Brighid, Bres, the god of love), Coyote, demons, fallen angels, Bacchants and the Virgin Mary. He seems set on a course that brings him into eventual conflict with Thor, who is apparently one of the biggest dicks in the many pantheons.

Much more fun so far.

An example:

“Oberon’s been kidnapped along with one of the werewolves, and that’s why we’re all so upset. We’ll talk more tomorrow, and I promise to answer all your questions if I survive the night,” I said.
The widow’s eyebrows raised. “Ye’ve got all these nasty pooches to run around with and ye still might die?”
“I’m going to go fight with a god, some demons, and a coven of witches who all want to kill me,” I said, “so it’s a distinct possibility.”
“Are y’goin’ t’kill ’em back?”
“I’d certainly like to.”
“Attaboy,” the widow chuckled. “Off y’go, then. Kill every last one o’ the bastards and call me in the mornin’.”

Evilynn wrote:I read them when I can't be bothered reading anything with substance, but I can't read more than 1-2 at a time or they grate on my nerves something awful.



I'm the same, tend to pick them up and read one when I can't get what I want from the library, waiting on something to be ordered/waiting on something in the mail.

I've actually stopped reading the third book about halfway through and returned it, because the book I wanted came in. And I'll pick it up again and go where I left off last time.

So I guess I do enjoy them, too a point. I find them entertaining, light, even if a few things may bother me about the writing/characters. I would never consider reading them one after the other though.

Trike wrote: "I found the Iron Druid series by Kevin Hearne and I'm enjoying them far more. Part of the problem I was having with Dresden was that I didn't find the characters believable, especially the cops, bo..."

Just goes to show you how different people are...

I really didn't care for this series. I found the druid in Iron Druid to be unbelievable. He's a 2,000 year old guy acting like a 20 something. I just found the whole premise to be too wild for me. Harry on the other hand I found much more believable. The first few Dresden books were written ages ago and you can tell that they are first books, but Butcher's writing improves as he puts out more work.

Trike wrote: "I found the Iron Druid series by Kevin Hearne and I'm enjoying them far more. Part of the problem I was having with Dresden was that I didn't find the characters believable, especially the cops, bo..."

I've enjoyed the Iron Druid series too, but I got halfway through the 4th book and became bored..... I think it's a situation for most series - that one reaches a saturation point and either give up, or plod on.

I'm a plodder-on with the Dresden series: yes there are some which are better than others, but that is typical. I'm at the point where Changes and Ghost Story are making me second-guess whether or not to continue.

In answer to the original post, yes, they do get better, but it's also hit-and-miss as to whether you'll be bothered or not.

I think this question is valid for a significant percentage of what I read. I read crap, sometimes. I enjoy it, but it's not great literature. It's fun. If it's not, I put it aside. I like the Harry Dresden books, but I don't read them all in a row. I also like the Iron Druid series. I like the Sookie Stackhouse books and I'm frankly glad I will be done with them after I read the newest book. I accept these are schlock, mostly.

I really enjoy the books in audio. My favorite so far is Dead Beat (where we meet Sue, the T-rex). I like the concept of how necromancy works.

Jute wrote: "Trike wrote: "I found the Iron Druid series by Kevin Hearne and I'm enjoying them far more. Part of the problem I was having with Dresden was that I didn't find the characters believable, especiall..."

Agreed.. Butcher opens up his universe slowly, introducing one "faction" or concept at a time, with Hearne it feels like he is sitting with a Mythology for Dummies namedropping like a madman..

I think Dresden Files(DF) is superior to Iron Druid(ID) in almost every way, except perhaps for the fact that ID starts strong then deteriorates and DF starts weak but improves..

Both series have a comical element to them, in DF its mainly Harry's tone that provides it(and to some extent "bob"), in ID it's the cartoonish talking dog, doing poodle and sausage one-liners.. I think the latter got old fairly quickly..

All the underlying plot-lines in the Dresden files that slowly gets expanded upon, the characters we end up having known for years of their lives and have seen how they have changed by their challenges, is what really appeals to me in DF.

Hearne´s plot-lines have already started getting repetitive, and he don't get enough done in regard to expanding upon his characters and his universe in each novel.. The characters act irrationally, and their actions and personalities seems to be contradict their back-stories.. Atticus himself is the best example of that.. All the gods are depicted as petty and unintelligent, and none of them is nearly as powerful as Atticus (sigh)..
Atticus.. the 2000 year old super-intelligent super-beautiful super-powerful druid, who acts as a stupid teenage boy..

.. But to each his own ;)

I've found I like The Markhat Files more than Dresden. Same idea, less supernatural politics (so far) and less annoying chauvnism.

No way i'm paying for a 46 paged short-story from an author i've never heard of.. :)

A lot of new authors would really do themselves a favor by caring more of getting read and known, than getting paid..

But thx for the recommendation, the premise does sound good..

Ben Aaronovitch Rivers of London, Mike Shevdon Sixty-one Nails, Sergei Lukyanenko Night Watch, Justin Gustainis Hard Spell, Glen Cook Sweet silver blues, John G. Hartness Hard Day's Knight, Harry Connolly Child of Fire, are some UF series ive enjoyed.. But not as much as the Dresden files :)

Brandt, Amazon has free sample chapters of later books to see if you like the style. I found the first couple shorts for 0.99 and then bought the rest of the books. I'd encourage it--it's like a cross between Sam Vines and Harry Dresden, set in a Sweet Silver Blues-type universe.

I really like the Markhat files too!

I liked Dresden and a similar series I liked was Monster Hunter International

Leesa wrote: "I really like the Markhat files too!"

Finally I've found someone that's read them! I can't understand why more people haven't.

Never heard of 'em until now. Will give 'em a go soon.

Chad wrote: "I liked Dresden and a similar series I liked was Monster Hunter International"

Liked that too :)
Don't think it was similar to Dresden files though..

I read the first four in one go and I regret having done that. I think Harry is great, but I found a few things annoying that I might not have noticed if I didn't read them back to back. I have to agree that the books do stay fairly similar although they do get a bit better as the series progresses. I've been told this continues past book four.

I couldn't help but compare Peter Grant to Harry Dresden when I read Midnight Riot and I have to say I much prefer Peter! They're both urban fantasy magic detective mystery vibe stories and the Peter Grant series wins out due to my personal preference for British humour and science as a means of understanding things. I also enjoyed the history of London (particularly the architecture) and the fact that our hero doesn't stay up for 4 days without sleep and multiple injuries but actually acts like a real person who eats and sleeps and get hurt.

I can't imagine I'll go back to Harry now that I've found Peter.

Also love PC Grant. Awaiting the next book with baited breath

Chris wrote: "Also love PC Grant. Awaiting the next book with baited breath"

Me too!! I thought Whispers Under Ground was the best so far and can't wait to see what he comes up with next :)

Butcher has said that Glen Cook as a big influence on him, but not his Garrett P.I. series, but more of his Black Company series, which I see trances of Black Company in Dresden, especially with the last few books.

Has anyone read Unshapely Things by Mark Del Franco? This series looks to be along the same lines as Dresden, and the sample on Amazon is not bad. Apparently there are 5 books so far.

Trike wrote: "Has anyone read Unshapely Things by Mark Del Franco? This series looks to be along the same lines as Dresden, and the sample on Amazon is not bad. Apparently there are 5 books so far."

I have. I liked the first couple okay, then it gets rather weird and dark. I read them before GR, so I don't have a review up for any of them. He's a magic-user that has a mysterious magic block, so he has to resort to normal detective skills.

Carole-Ann wrote: "halfway through the 4th book and became bored..... I think it's a situation for most series - that one reaches a saturation point and either give up, or plod on...."
And that's not just true for readers. Some authors (most?) go through the same process. The better ones recognise it and realise that if they are becoming bored their readers will as well - then they go write a different series, in a different universe. Less skilled authors complain about writer's block and/or just carry on writing anyway . . .
I guess I had better not name any examples! But in my opinion it affects even the great writers from time to time.