The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion

Yes I believe sherlock holmes may well have been asexual. They say everyone has a vice, and Sherlock's was not over endulging in the fairer sex. I think he just could not find enough woman that rocked his boat. That's my problem with men. I cant find one that really turns me on.

Sherlock Holmes was really a woman. Only Moriarty and Dr Watson knew this. It was the best kept secret of the Victorian age.

Yes and brother Myron was actually sister Myra. Watson, of course, was not a real doctor. He was a chimney sweep who stole the credentials of the real Doctor Watson who was killed in war.

Joanne wrote: "Yes I believe sherlock holmes may well have been asexual. They say everyone has a vice, and Sherlock's was not over endulging in the fairer sex. I think he just could not find enough woman that ro..."

His great love, Irene Adler, was murdered by Moriarty!

``It was not that he felt any emotion akin to love for Irene Adler. All emotions, and that one particularly, were abhorrent to his cold, precise but admirably balanced mind."
I thinks Holmes'one great love was opium.
I am not particularly fond of these Holmes'revisions even if I did call Mycroft Myron in a previous post.

Friendship involves emotion. It's been so long since I read the stories. Was Watson only an instrument Holmes used to solve mysteries, or was there some feeling of friendship there?

When Basil Rathbone was Sherlock, and irreplaceable, Watson was respected and valued by Sherlock. They were true friends.

Jeremy Brett was a good Sherlock also.

He was the best!

Joanne wrote: "Yes I believe sherlock holmes may well have been asexual. They say everyone has a vice, and Sherlock's was not over endulging in the fairer sex. I think he just could not find enough woman that ro..."

I seem to remember a Holmes story in which Watson describes Holmes's love affair with a woman in his past.

No such story exists in the Canon, Martin. But of course does feature in more than a few pastiches.

Our new Holmes apparently enjoys prostitues.

Which is rather preposterous...

but helps to sell movies I guess.

I've enjoyed the TV series Elementary. This Sherlock is just as self-involved and obsessive as the original. However, his blatant sexuality doesn't ring true to the original Holmes character.

The new series just keeps getting better!

15> I think what really works for me with the BBC Sherlock is Sherlock's lack of sexuality. He's such a quirky character that anything so blatant would ruin his charm. Hopefully, Moffat and Gatniss are smart enough not to mess with success.

Scout wrote: "I've enjoyed the TV series Elementary. This Sherlock is just as self-involved and obsessive as the original. However, his blatant sexuality doesn't ring true to the original Holmes character."

Have you watched BBC's Sherlock series? I don't mean to compare but I prefer Sherlock than Elementary in the term of originality and in this case the curious case of Sherlock Holmes's sexuality.

Tiffany wrote: "15> I think what really works for me with the BBC Sherlock is Sherlock's lack of sexuality. He's such a quirky character that anything so blatant would ruin his charm. Hopefully, Moffat and Gatni..."

Agree. But I'm team Molly Hooper now. I'm not hoping that she and Sherlock will get together but well maybe at least Sherlock can be a lot nicer to her.

The immense pace and intricacy of the BBC Sherlock is what makes it so perfect for me. Sherlock's nonexistent sexuality? Irene Adler did work a little for him I think!

I don't think Adler did anything for his sexuality. He's used to being able to read anyone and couldn't stand that she was an enigma to him. All those question marks when he looked at her, sitting naked in front of him. The poor thing was confused not aroused.

We tend to forget in this time of more sexual freedom just how constrained the Victorian rules were. It wasn't that Holmes respected those rules, but that he simply ignored the whole thing as too much bother. Some people are able to sublimate like mad, and it's likely that's what he did.
Separating author from character, quite possibly Doyle just didn't want to bother with the whole business and/or knew going there wasn't what his readers wanted.

Nurhuda, I've watched the series with Cumberbatch and enjoyed it immensely. I'm not too picky about details, as long as there's a good story, which is why I also like Elementary.

As much as I like SH, modern day remakes hint at a lack of original, creative thought.

I have a book coming out next year about detective fiction in which I devote a chapter to Holmes, much of it to do with his alleged cold personality. There is a great deal to refute this, not least the enormous enthusiasm he shows at the very beginning of our meeting him for the results of his research. He enjoys people and the life of the mind. With regard to sexuality particularly, it's we who are conflicted. In The Hound of the Baskervilles there is a very complicated set of relationships involving Stapleton and his wife/sister, the painter's wife MM, and the young Sir Henry. It is very interesting to see how this network of morality, pursuit, and desire is handled in the films made from Rathbone through Cushing in the 50s, Brett, Roxburgh in 2002 and now Cumberbatch. Rathbone's is dignified and distant. Cushings version has the Stapleton woman as his daughter, a little tramp who vamps Watson, is complicit in the plot, and dies. Brett tries to be honest but has to add a thrilling rescue of threatened female. Roxburgh is cynical and exploitive, and the Cumberbatch version ignores the whole business is an adolescent flurry. The really adult version is Doyle's and his Holmes is the grown-up who is at ease with the situation, not constrained by prurience or embarrassment or a false morality. It is the original Holmes who knows who he is. We are the ones who can't deal with a situation in which sex is not an everpresent all-consuming issue.

R.M.F wrote: "As much as I like SH, modern day remakes hint at a lack of original, creative thought."

100% agreement.

Charles wrote: "We are the ones who can't deal with a situation in which sex is not an everpresent all-consuming issue. "

Excellent point. We don't always have to have sex in the mix. If anything, it's probably overdone by now.

John wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "As much as I like SH, modern day remakes hint at a lack of original, creative thought."

100% agreement."

I disagree somewhat. While overall I'm wary of remakes, I think the BBC version is very good, though The Hound of the Baskervilles (mentioned above) episode was my least favorite of the series. I think there is a lack of creativity when they end up taking interesting characters and essentially taking out everything that makes the character unique, replacing it with pablum. But not every remake does that - I think the BBC version tries to stay true to the character but brings him into the 21st century. IMO, that is a creative approach to the character.

John wrote: Charles wrote: "We are the ones who can't deal with a situation in which sex is not an everpresent all-consuming issue. "

Excellent point. We don't always have to have sex in the mix. If anything, it's probably overdone by now.

This I agree with! And beyond the idea that sex needs to be written into everything, it is irritating that it is often the only way that limited writers, etc. can figure out how to bring women into a story. Larger issue than the Sherlock Holmes versions ....

Susan wrote: "John wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "As much as I like SH, modern day remakes hint at a lack of original, creative thought."

100% agreement."

I disagree somewhat. While overall I'm wary of remakes, I think..."

In my view, the best two portrayals of SH are Peter Cushing in hammer's hound of the Baskervilles, and my all time favourite 'the private life of Sherlock Holmes.' Everything else pales into insignificance.