Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion

It's June 1 - the starting date for our discussion of Those Bones Are Not My Child by the late Toni Cade Bambara. This book, written by a much-loved African American author and activist, then edited and published by her close friend Toni Morrison after Bambara's death in 1995, deals with the painful story of the Atlanta child murders which took place between 1979 and 1981. This is a work of fiction although it is loaded with factual information gathered by Bambara who lived in Atlanta at the time.

Is everyone familiar with the Atlanta child murders? There is a ton of information about them on the Internet. One important thing to remember is that there is no consensus of opinion about who committed the murders and why. Bambara's book is very much from her own perspective.

Have you read any other books about the murders? I have read Tayari Jones fictional book Leaving Atlanta as well as No Place Safe, a memoir by Kim Reid.

What about other works by Toni Cade Bambara? I am a huge fan of her short stories. If you haven't read them, this is one of my favorites:
http://cai.ucdavis.edu/gender/theless...

Here is some information about Bambara:
http://www.georgiawritershalloffame.o...

And reviews of Those Bones Are Not My Child:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/19...

https://www.nytimes.com/books/00/01/0...

This is not a short book, so I hope that we can jump into the prologue and Part 1 very soon!

Our 2010 discussion of her book Gorilla, My Love is here:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I love this quote from Bambara: "I work to celebrate struggle, to applaud the tradition of struggle in our community, to bring to center stage all those characters, just ordinary folks on the block, who've been waiting in the wings."

Those Bones Are Not My Child is from the perspective of the ordinary folks on the block in Atlanta who lived through a time of fear.

Gorilla, My Love is one of my all time favorite books. I always think of the depth of those stories.

I look forward to reading and discussing this book as it has sat on my shelf unread for many years.

I will try to keep up with the schedule - this week will be tough for me as I am in the process of moving.

This is my first time reading Toni Cade Bambara. I am looking forward to reading and the discussion of this book. I have read Tayari Jones' book Leaving Atlanta. I am curious to see if Jones and Bambara's books are similar in depiction of the Atlanta child murders.

Beverly wrote: "I look forward to reading and discussing this book as it has sat on my shelf unread for many years.

I will try to keep up with the schedule - this week will be tough for me as I am in the process ..."

My copy has been sitting on my shelf for many years also, Beverly.

I've seen this book for years and avoided it. Maybe it's time to go ahead and tackle it. I'm looking forward to the discussion.

Jean, you are so correct. The depth and impact of the stories in Gorilla, My Love resonate so fondly years after reading them. This group had a lively and passionate discussion about the book a couple of years ago if memory holds correctly.

Before reading Gorilla I had never heard of Bambara. But, since then I've run across many social and political groups/forums i.e....women/african american/feminist/lesbian groups, who have used her writings and past activism for group discussions and to sort of highlight or promote their agenda. Still influential with many folk long after her death.

This will be my first experience with Bambara. I've got the book, although I have to admit I'm kind of afraid of it - this may be more intense than I can deal with.

Alexa wrote: "This will be my first experience with Bambara. I've got the book, although I have to admit I'm kind of afraid of it - this may be more intense than I can deal with."

Same here, Alexa. I had mentioned that to Wilhelmina as well. I certainly would love to read it for Bambara's writing alone, but the subject matter is just too much for me at this time. Never thought I would say that about a book but with the current national affairs with young black boys dying from police brutality and my own personal involvement with little ones, I couldn't possibly handle it right now. Must've been a difficult book to write, too.

This book just seems like it would be too much, and I'm sure I wouldn't be able to get through it. As a mother, it would just hit to close to home, and it would likely give me nightmares. Such a tragic subject matter, and the author was a champion for tackling it.

Columbus wrote: "Must've been a difficult book to write, too...."

It was apparently difficult for Bambara, master of the short story, to compile all of her thoughts about that time into a readable novel. At the time of her death, she had written well over 1000 pages and she had been writing this book for 12 years. I can't imagine the editing job that Toni Morrison had to do!

My university library has a copy of this book and i'm seriously thinking about joining in this read. This would be the first Bambara book I've read. The subject matter would also be new as I now nothing about the Atlanta child murders. Given the political climate it just might be an appropriate time for me to read the novel.

Catherine wrote: "My university library has a copy of this book and i'm seriously thinking about joining in this read. This would be the first Bambara book I've read. The subject matter would also be new as I now no..."

That would be great, Catherine!

Has anyone read the entire book already?

My copy is in the mail to me as my library didn't have this one. I've owned The Salt Eaters for a while and was planning to read it this summer, so I may end up reading two by her. I am looking forward to this read, although I'm sure it will be intense. I do have memories of these murders, although they are vague.

What about everyone else? Getting started?

I decided to just dip my toe in, to test the temperature. Well that prologue grabbed me and wouldn't let go!

Alexa wrote: "I decided to just dip my toe in, to test the temperature. Well that prologue grabbed me and wouldn't let go!"

The prologue is beautifully written. Can we start talking about the prologue on Thursday?

In spite of my fears, I'm finding this very difficult to put down!

I'm curious how much of reality she uses here - yet I don't want to mess with my experience of the novel by looking up any facts!

Alexa wrote: "In spite of my fears, I'm finding this very difficult to put down!

I'm curious how much of reality she uses here - yet I don't want to mess with my experience of the novel by looking up any facts!"

It's interesting for me because I live in Atlanta, right in the middle of the community she's describing. I didn't move here until 1987, but it's still a bit eerie.

just getting started as well. wishing we had two months for this

I'm currently about 75 pages into it.

Janet wrote: "just getting started as well. wishing we had two months for this"

Great, Janet and George!

We never have to stop at the end of the month, Janet. The threads always stay open.

Can those of us who have read it talk about the prologue now? We can move on to Part I and Part II on Sunday, June 7th, if that's okay.

I agree with Alexa that the prologue is gripping. Bambara does a beautiful job of showing the fear and disorientation that persisted in the wake of the child murders. I don't think that I had considered before that the children of this period would probably be far more resilient than the adults. Living in constant fear for your child would have to leave a parent with a kind of PTSD.

My copy arrived today and I read the prologue this afternoon. I can't imagine the fear and grief for those parents. This will be difficult reading, but if the prologue is any indication, a rewarding one!

The prologue was fascinating - both a review of past events and then being thrust right back into them simultaneously - and of course as readers we didn't really know where we were in the sequence. I see that unnamed second person "you" as Bambara herself, or as the narrative voice that will then tell us the story. (I've just finished Part I and read the first page of Part II and I don't see "you" there as of yet.) (Sorry, I hope that wasn't cheating - it just seemed to be an important aspect of the prologue's voice.) For how many years did who-knows-how-many parents repeat that woman's afternoon over and over and over again?

I finished the absolutely compelling prologue, turned the page to see that Part I was dated a year and a half earlier, and had to put the book down again. After that introduction I was once again afraid I just didn't have the strength to keep reading. But I did - she's such a compelling writer that she draws me in, in spite of all my fears.

Did everyone feel drawn in by the author's style of using 2nd person, present tense?

Just picked up the book yesterday and started the prologue. I was immediately drawn in. The use of second person, present tense is making it feel so much more emotional and present. This is not going to be an easy book to read because of the emotionality.

Alafia good people:
I have been listening/reading comments on this site and collecting recommended readings but have seldom had time to participate in the discussions. However I started the sample pages of Cade-Bambara's "Those Bones Are Not My Children" and must say that in those few sample pages she really captured the internal process of those of us who were young Mothers during that period. Here in Oakland we went to the bus stop in groups with Smith and Wesson 38s in our apron pockets and crazy tears dammed in the back of our eyes. I'm ordering the paper copy so I can write in the margins, dog ear the corners and stain the words with my tears. As a last offering Toni has blessed us with a heart wrenching memory of the challenges we face just to stay sane as we stay alive. Thanks for the existence of this group. Teish

I agree - she really captures the intensity of the feelings of a mother in this terrible time.

As we move into Parts I and II, we are taken back to 1980 and are introduced to Mazrala, a single mother, and two of her children, Kofi and Kenti. The family member who we do not meet is Sundiata, called Sonny, who has not come home as expected. I was particularly struck by the family's initial effort to find an explanation for Sonny's absence with the knowledge of murdered children always in the background. Even as Marzala seeks help from the authorities, everyone wants there to be some other explanation

What is the reading/discussion schedule so I can catch up?

Alafia catching up is the question. I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive. I read a few pages from the kindle sample but really want my paper copy. In the meantime I'll read the comments and remember the reality of the times.
Teish

Since some people were just getting started, we were getting into the book slowly. Let's continue to discuss the Prologue, Part I and Part II until Sunday, June 14. From Monday, June 15 until Sunday, June 21, we can discuss Parts III, IV & V. On Monday, June 22, we can add in Parts VI, VII, and the Epilogue. How does that sound to everyone?

Luisah wrote: "Alafia good people:
I have been listening/reading comments on this site and collecting recommended readings but have seldom had time to participate in the discussions. However I started the sample..."

Luisah, I have a son who was 10 years old at the time of this book. I was in DC at the time - I moved to Atlanta in 1987 - but I remember clearly the horror of knowing that boys like my son were being murdered in Atlanta. Terrible times.

I was particularly struck by and enjoyed the way throughout Part I she keeps jumping from the point of view of Zala and each of her two kids. I wouldn't have thought that a constantly roving POV would be comfortable - but it gave an immediacy to the situation that I thought was brilliant.

Then in Part II she shifts to a different style, and we get vignettes of Zala's and Spence's attempts to do something, anything, while struggling through their days - again I would have thought this episodic story-telling, with so many gaps in the events, would have driven me crazy - but it works amazingly, beautifully well. And then, just when I, as the reader, was getting just a touch too comfortable, settling a bit too easily into accepting the loss, she throws out at us the torture films and the pictures. Wow!!!

I've decided I have to stop reading this book. Every night, after I've read for a while, I have nightmares. I wake up with an almost unshakable feeling of deep frustration, helplessness, and sadness. it's bringing up feelings from a time a while ago in which I was in a terrible situation that encompassed both my work and living situations. I finally got out, but I hadn't realized how much I had just ignored my feelings; i'm now going to be working through them carefully and intentionally.

The book itself feels a lot like an endless nightmare to me with no ability to wake up. The gaps and jumping around in the story line tend to reinforce that feeling. the paranoiac feeling that everyone is potentially suspect and that no one can be trusted or relied on certainly contributes as well.

I remember the incidents well enough but I didn't have any kids old enough to worry about at the time and we didn't live in the Atlanta area. so, I don't feel it quite as viscerally as some folks clearly do here. Very disturbing, yes.

I can remember lots of conversations with family and friends at the time over whether Williams was really guilty or not.

George wrote: "The book itself feels a lot like an endless nightmare to me with no ability to wake up. The gaps and jumping around in the story line tend to reinforce that feeling. the paranoiac feeling that ever..."

I agree that the style reinforces the chaos and paranoia of the times.

Catherine, please do what is best for you. There will be other books and other discussions! Take care!

Does Bambara paint a realistic picture of this family or does the disjointed style interfere with that?

Do you think that the family should be more forthcoming with the authorities in these early chapters?

I think we get a reasonable picture over time, but it did take some time to develop that picture.

should they have been more forthcoming? well, yes, assuming they had any expectations that the authorities had any actual interest in solving things. since they didn't, their reluctance to share information isn't all that hard to understand. and of course, they're half convinced the police are involved. The end of part two doesn't exactly help build confidence in the police for the reader.

I finished through Part 2 this afternoon and I am finding the book engaging and I am enjoying the slow pace as the story develops. It is an emotional read and the attitudes of the police officers are maddening. This came through to me on page 66 as they turned the tables on Zala: "You listed three work numbers. You have three jobs and can keep track of three children? We need you down here conducting workshops, Mrs. Spencer." This was so rude and condescending. The final scene of part 2 with the lie detector test was powerful as well. In hindsight, perhaps they should have been more forthcoming with the authorities, yet these experiences do make it seem like it wouldn't have made much difference, as George points out.

George wrote: "The book itself feels a lot like an endless nightmare to me with no ability to wake up. The gaps and jumping around in the story line tend to reinforce that feeling...."

I also think the episodic jumping around also mirrors their lack of control. It certainly gives me that sense, with no control over what will be shown next and with no follow-up with vital facts!

I'm impressed with how she shows us different aspects of the characters. For example we first see Spence through Zala's eyes, at a time when she is completely exasperated with him. Then we realize he's not composed of simply all the flaws Zala saw, and that in fact she actually has a great deal of affection for him. Then there are the tiny facts Bambara slowly gives us. Dave tells the story of Zala's pregnancy that she tries to hide while she's in school living with her aunt in New York. And then Spence remembers dating Zala while he's apparently a freshman in college. And then Zala is asked her age during the lie detector test and it suddenly hits that Zala was 14 and Spence was 19 when Sonny was born! And we're left with that awkward juxtaposition with this tale of missing (and possibly sexually exploited) children.

I agree - so much information about this family is given in tiny hints and one-liners. The smallest things turn out to be meaningful.

The men who have returned from the Vietnam War are sometimes shown as a source of strength and sometimes are seen as suspects. What did you think of the way that the veterans are shown here?

hard to say. I'd say it would be accurate enough for some vets, but certainly not all. but then again, the book is still a work in progress for me. I was a bit surprised that so far, it doesn't play up the drug problems many had, including at least one family member of mine.

Better than the Hollywood Rambo image of Stallone anyway, who supposedly wanted to show how Nam vets were misunderstood by portraying a fairly crazed Nam vet who proceeded to take out the entire town for mistreating him.

Underneath everything that happens is the longing to trust the administration of the first Black mayor of Atlanta, Maynard Jackson. There is a huge desire to believe that things had changed, that something as horrible as the child murders could not happen on Jackson's watch. At the same time, there is an awareness that the Atlanta business community is where the real power lies and that maintaining the image of Atlanta as "the city too busy to hate" is necessary to bring in convention money. The number of conflicting hopes and fears that the people in this book are trying to balance is dizzying.

Yes, a great picture of the tension between race and class - trying to decide which is responsible for more oppression and injustice. (And also gender, hints that missing boys are treated as being more important than missing girls, that female police officers are being ignored.)

And the clear truth that when all three are against you....

How far has everyone read? Will we be ready to talk about Parts III, IV, and V tomorrow?

I'll be finishing up V tonight.

I'm behind, but I will be trying to catch up in the next few days.