Military Professional Reading discussion

Great review Liam, thanks for posting the details.

Thanx, Rick!

Liam I enjoyed the review very much and that you provided some thoughts on the type of information left out of IDF related publications. I have not read about the IDF in any detail except for the Merkava tank.

Good review Liam - It goes on the TBR pile :)

Hello. In wake of all of the negative press our military services are getting, especially America's Air Force, I'd appreciate a review of my book, "A Practical Guide To SUCCESS in the United States Air Force." I'm confident it provide some essentials for success not only in the military but in everyday life. Check it out at www.createspace.com/3859947. Thanks, Rodney Phillips

Geevee wrote: "Liam I enjoyed the review very much and that you provided some thoughts on the type of information left out of IDF related publications. I have not read about the IDF in any detail except for the ..."

The story of the IDF is a fascinating one, Geevee, (the history of the Merkava's development being one of the more interesting parts of the larger story), and there have been a large number of excellent books on the history of the Israeli military establishment either written in, or translated into, the English language. Probably the best general history of the IDF is Martin van Creveld's The Sword and the Olive: A Critical History of the Israeli Defense Force, although Shield Of David: The Story of Israel's Armed Forces is also well worth reading. For a campaign history through 1974, Trevor N. Dupuy's Elusive Victory- The Arab-Israeli Wars: 1947-1974 is really excellent. Many IDF officers have written memoirs; I found both Moshe Dayan: Story of My Life- An Autobiography and Warrior: An Autobiography to be absolutely fascinating. Living History: A Memoir is an incredibly good book (incidentally, Herzog's books specifically on the Arab-Israeli Wars are also very good), and On Eagles' Wings: The personal story of the leading commander of the Israeli Air Force is worth reading as well; these two both provide a pilot's perspective, among other things. All the memoirs I have mentioned so far are by officers who eventually held high civilian posts in Israel's government after their military careers. The best memoir ever written by an IDF officer, however, as far as I can tell anyway, is Brigadier General Avigdor Kahalani's absolutely extraordinary A Warrior's Way. His combat narrative from the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, The Heights Of Courage: A Tank Leader's War on the Golan, is just as good- I found it absolutely mesmerizing.

Some excellent suggestions there Liam, a few that I will have to check out!

Have you read any of Eric Hammel's books on the subject:

and by Eric Hammel

I also recently picked up a copy of this book that I am yet to read:

by Gilad Sharon

I wish you hadn't mentioned those books Liam, searching through my library I have found that I have these three books still to read:

by Abraham Rabinovich

by Michael B. Oren

by Benny Morris

Maybe one day soon we should organise a theme read here on this subject?

I just remembered this one that I have sitting un-read in the library as well:


by Avraham (Bren) Adan

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I just remembered this one that I have sitting un-read in the library as well:


by Avraha..."

Yeah, I thought that book was pretty good as well...

AR, I can vouch for . The best summary of the Six Day War I've found. Another favorite is . Read that one at least 5 times.


@Liam, thanks for that list of TBR books, looks like I have some collecting to do.

I've read Ambassador Oren's book (I agree that it is the best book on that war) and a few of President Herzog's, including the one Mike mentioned above; I found that all of them were quite good. I still haven't got hold of either Rabinovich or Morris's books, but I hope to get particularly a copy of the latter sometime soon. Now that you mention it, Rick, I have several books in that area stacked around the room & as yet unread also: , first and foremost, which according to what I've read is Fisk's masterpiece (if it's as good as his previous book on Lebanon it may well be exceptional); - Professor Laqueur's memoir, , also is worth reading vis-a-vis the 1948 war and the civil unrest leading up to it (he has written several books specifically dealing with the Arab-Israeli conflict as well); ; ; ; ; and ; not to mention and which are focused a bit differently; and finally a couple of recent biographies, and ...

A theme read sounds like an excellent idea; how about if those of us who don't already have a copy of make an effort to get one, and anyone who doesn't get one in time, or would rather read something else, can simply pick another book of his or her choice?
By the way, Mike, you are of course quite welcome, and here are a few more...

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Some excellent suggestions there Liam, a few that I will have to check out!

Have you read any of Eric Hammel's books on the subject:




Hey Rick, I must have missed this post earlier- No, I actually haven't read any of Eric Hammel's books, although several are on my to-read list (I could have sworn I had a copy of around here somewhere, but I'm damned if I know where I might have stashed it)... Thanx for the heads-up on the Sharon book; I heard something about it on NPR News a while ago, but I was not aware it was already out.

Oh dear what have I started :) Another mass pile to add to my TBR Doh!. Liam thanks for these book and the views on them, and Mike and Rick for adding positive comments on some books too

Liam you must, MUST, read Robert Fisk's Great War for Civilization, it's a classic!

I keen on a theme read covering this subject - I've got no shortage of books I can pick from :)

Anyone else interested?

Glad you mentioned that you really liked The War Of Atonement Mike as I had a copy sitting in my shopping basket at Abebooks. I better go buy it now and this time I can honestly say to my wife that you made me do it :)

by Chaim Herzog

Yeah but he didn't make you press the buy button - boy you are for it.

BTW my wife just discovered I have bought three books on the Gemini/Mercury/Apollo programmes - I think she said something like why do I need more books but to be honest the reception went hazy ;)

Geevee wrote: "Yeah but he didn't make you press the buy button - boy you are for it.

BTW my wife just discovered I have bought three books on the Gemini/Mercury/Apollo programmes - I think she said something li..."


Just tell her you need three books 'cause there were three separate programs, hahaha...

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Liam you must, MUST, read Robert Fisk's Great War for Civilization, it's a classic!

I keen on a theme read covering this subject - I've got no shortage of books I can pick from :)

Anyone else int..."


Yes, I suspected as much when I first saw it in the bookstore. was so incredibly great that Fisk would have had to write a masterpiece even just to equal it.

Totally agree with you there Liam. You would think he couldn't beat Pity the Nation but he does! I am sure you will really enjoy it when you get the time to read it.

I'll be in a group or buddy read of 1948 (if I can find my copy) or any of the books previously mentioned if anyone else is also interested?

The book gets some pretty good reviews:


by Benny Morris
reviews:
"This is the best book by far on the war of 1948.” — Benjamin Kedar, Professor of History, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

"This is a wonderful contribution to the historiography of the Israel/Palestine War of 1948. Morris has written a fresh account, substantiated by a lot of new documentation." — Ronald W. Zweig, Professor of Israel Studies, New York University

"A commanding, superbly documented, and fair-minded study of the events that, in the wake of the Holocaust, gave a sovereign home to one people and dispossessed another. . . . What is so striking about Morris''s work as a historian is that it does not flatter anyone''s prejudices, least of all his own." — David Remnick, New Yorker

"Morris relates the story of his new book soberly and somberly, evenhandedly and exhaustively. . . . An authoritative and fair-minded account of an epochal and volatile event. He has reconstructed that event with scrupulous exactitude." — David Margolick, New York Times Book Review

"As [Israel] celebrates six decades of reborn existence on May 14 and books about it cascade into stores, the most important among them [is] Benny Morris''s 1948." — Carlin Romano, The Chronicle Review

"An ambitious, detailed and engaging portrait of the war itself—from its origins to its unresolved aftermath—that further shatters myths on both sides of the Israeli-Arab divide." — Glenn Frankel, Washington Post Book World

"Morris, born in 1948, is among a group of Israeli ''new historians,'' whose work has challenged the traditional, accepted line of the birth of Israel. In this well-researched book, he strives for balance." — Billy Heller, New York Post (Required Reading)

"A compelling ''aha'' book, 1948 brings order to complex, little-understood subjects . . . with [Morris''] vivid narrative prose and masterly analysis." — David Holahan, The Hartford Courant

"Morris''s account seems admirable, because he is unafraid of upsetting both camps. . . . His commitment to the pursuit of historical truth deserves as much admiration as his dismay at Arab intransigence commands sympathy." — Max Hastings, Sunday Times (London)

"A considerable achievement, meticulously detailing and analyzing both Israel''s war of Independence, on the one hand, and its mirror Palestinian face: the Catastrophe (al nakba), on the other." — Michael Bell, Toronto Globe and Mail

"1948 is a superb attempt to provide a reasoned assessment of a very contentious period. It is well worth study by anyone seeking to understand the Middle East that this war helped create." — Col. Jonathan M. House, Military Review

"Readers interested in military strategy and tactics will appreciate the book''s comprehensiveness on this score, while others will be drawn in by the sheer drama of the war, with its interweaving of military and political action, told clearly and swiftly." — Joel Streicker, Shofar

"Morris has reviewed all the revisionist literature, re-worked the shelves of the archives to make sure that nothing has been overlooked, and given us a meticulously researched day-by-day narrative of the first Arab-Israeli war." — Paul C. Merkley, Books & Culture

"Highly recommended." — Choice

"A commanding, superbly documented, and fair-minded study of the events that . . . gave a sovereign home to one people and dispossessed another. . . . What is so striking about Morris''s work . . . is that it does not flatter anyone''s prejudices . . ." — David Remnick, New Yorker

"Morris tenders a well-documented work with more than one hundred pages of endnotes that support every major point. That fair-minded, impartial balancing of Arab and Jewish standpoints is what distinguishes Morris’ work." — John W. Sutherlin, MESA

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I'll be in a group or buddy read of 1948 (if I can find my copy) or any of the books previously mentioned if anyone else is also interested?"


I'm looking for a copy, hopefully I'll have one in a week or so...

I found my buried in the library so I am ready anytime (sort of).

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Glad you mentioned that you really liked The War Of Atonement Mike as I had a copy sitting in my shopping basket at Abebooks. I better go buy it now and this time I can honestly say to my wife that you made me do it :)..."

That's fine AR. My copy of arrived today and I told my wife it was your fault. And I just ordered rom Amazon. Have to spread the blame around so...sorry Liam, you're it.

Good to share the pain :)

Wow, my copy of arrived today, just ordered it on last Friday. Used but in pristine condition.

That's pretty quick! You interested in doing a bit of a group read with Liam, Geevee, etc sometime down the track (soon)?

Definitely. I feel that reading has set me up for the first war to establish Israel.

Over to you Liam, let us know when your copy of 1948 arrives.

A pretty good review on the book here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/...

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Over to you Liam, let us know when your copy of 1948 arrives."

Definitely; it shouldn't be too much longer...

I'd like to but I need to read some of the (hundreds) of books already in my office.

Come on Geevee, you know you want to :)

What about any book on one of the many Middle East conflicts as a theme read?

Not listening... ;)

Oh well, I tried :)

Along with Happy in this group I've just started reading the book Conquest by Juliet Barker which so far has been pretty good.


by Juliet Barker

I just found the most amazing documentary on the French Indo-China War; it has pre-WWII color footage from Peshawar, Saigon & Batavia (none of which I've ever seen before) and also makes extensive use of Roman Karmen's later (ca. 1954) footage (also color!) of the Viet Minh leadership. My jaw has been bouncing off the floor all morning... You can find it here: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmF9tU...). It is well worth watching; if you are interested in the history of that time & place you will be absolutely mesmerized! The title is 'Indochine: A Peoples War- In Colour'.

Thanks for that link Liam, I've got it saved to go back and watch later.

I've just started reading two interesting books:

by Nathaniel Philbrick

by John R. Elting

Starting this tomorrow:

by Sholto Douglas MRAF (Marshal of the Royal Air Force)

An excellent book for sure! Have you read his first book Geevee:

by Sholto Douglas MRAF (Marshal of the Royal Air Force)

Not yet Rick but I'm on the case for a nice first edition with dust wrapper :)

I've got a nice hardback edition but different cover to above, its a good read.

Just started by Joseph E. Persico for the group read over at the History Book Club.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I've just started reading two interesting books:..."

Will be waiting on your reviews AR, I want to read the first for sure and the second looks interesting, although maybe a little too much detail.

I am about a third of the way through Bunker Hill and so far it's been pretty good.

Mike wrote: "Just started by Joseph E. Persico for the group read over at the History Book Club."

I'm waiting for the library to acquire this. When it comes in it goes to thet top of the list.

happy wrote: "Mike wrote: "Just started by Joseph E. Persico for the group read over at the History Book Club."..."


The girl who was running the cash register the last time I was in one of the better local bookshops, Ukazoo Books, recommended Persico's work to me. Apparently, he was teaching at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor a few years ago, and this young lady had been one of his students. She said he is an exceptionally good Professor as well as a talented historian & writer.

For all of us military book nerds, an exciting weekend on BookTV:


"The Savior Generals: How Five Great Commanders Saved Wars That Were Lost - From Ancient Greece to Iraq"
Victor Davis Hanson

Encore Booknotes: Shelby Foote, "Stars in Their Courses: The Gettysburg Campaign"
Shelby Foote

"Our Lives, Our Fortunes & Our Sacred Honor: The Forging of American Independence, 1774-1776"
Richard Beeman

After Words: Charles Moore, "Margaret Thatcher: From Grantham to the Falklands," hosted by Toby Harnden, Sunday Times of London

"Defiant Brides: The Untold Story of Two Revolutionary-Era Women and the Radical Men They Married"
Nancy Rubin Stuart

2013 Los Angeles Times Festival of Books: Call-in with Mark Mazzetti, author of "The Way of the Knife"
Mark Mazzetti


In Depth: Rick Atkinson
E-mail Book TV Send questions for the author to Book TV

"Bunker Hill: A City, A Siege, A Revolution"
Nathaniel Philbrick

Book TV in London: Max Hastings
Max Hastings

"Death in the Baltic: The World War II Sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff"
Cathryn Prince

I watche Philbrick's show last week - fascinating