The Sword and Laser discussion

Well, to be more accurate, I'm done with books that aren't part of a COMPLETED series.

I've slogged through the first seven Safehold books. Mr. Weber, are you working on number 8. Are you ever going to end this story? Seven books of excruciating (although interesting) detail and very little plot movement.

I've listened to the first two books of The Kingkiller Chronices. Mr. Rothfuss, are you stuck? Did you write yourself into a corner? Do YOU know how it ends? You've written other stuff while I'm waiting.

I stopped reading GoT after the first book. I don't have any idea what Mr. Martin is doing with his time. HBO provides all the story I need and I have some faith that they will actually finish the story.

It's not that I don't think these are good books. But, I can only read and listen to a certain number of books every year. I'm finished with authors that get through two or three books then sit around for years while the readers wait.

From now on, if a book looks interesting, I'll check the "view series" link in Amazon and read the comments to see if the whole series is completed and available. There are too many good books out there to waste time on stories that I may never see resolved. I don't have the time to re-read books just to remind myself of the plot when the final books do appear, years later.

Maybe this sounds a little cranky, but stories are meant to be told and books are meant to be read. I'm not talking about books with stand-alone stories that take place in the same universe. I'm talking about books like I've already mentioned.

In my, cranky opinion, when publishers write a contract for any series of books, they should include a time limit with penalties for tardy completion.

gs

I've been lucky to only read series' that have completed. But I will note that I barely held on through the second and third books in the "Southern Reach" trilogy, pretty much just gritting my teeth to get to the end of the story. If it were to go beyond that I probably would have lemmed with an annoyed rolleye. And the "Mars" series by Kim Stanley Robinson had little payoff, so I won't be bothering with the new installments.

Depends why you read, I guess. If you're only interested in finding out 'what happens in the end' of some story, then sure, reading long series that are not and may never be completed is a total waste of time.

But on the other hand, some people enjoy reading books as an activity in its own right; for them, the promise of another enjoyable book continuing the story of this enjoyable book just makes the whole thing more attractive rather than less.

Gawd. I can't believe you made it through the Safehold series. I read half of the first one. It started out like it could be interesting, the morphed into an excruciatingly long explanation of ships and military stuff. I just couldn't read it.

Wastrel - for me, it's dependent on the kind of series. A shared universe series (Scalzi's Old Man's War setting for example) can go on forever and it doesn't matter since each book or so is self-contained.

The long, single arc story series is different for me in two respects. First, I hate tourist books, i.e. books that feel like they're just there to get readers back in the world but which don't advance things. That feels almost manipulative, as if the author knows that they will get some level of sales and are just milking things. Second, while I fully subscribe to the "GRRM is not your bitch" point that Gaiman makes here (http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05...) the inverse is true too - we're not the author's bitch*. We don't owe an author sales and we're perfectly within our rights to feel that we want the full story which the author has started and that we don't want to start an incomplete series.


*Sorry for using the bitch word - I know there might be some sensitivity to it here. I'm riffing on Gaiman's use of it in his post linked above.

I completely understand the OP's view. I love finding a new series that I enjoy and finding it is complete.

But I also am someone who will jump on a new series everyone is talking about and be impatiently waiting years for the next book. It is part of the "joy" of being a book lover. I wish I could wait until a series is complete but I also know if we all did that there would probably be no book 2.

I agree with Rick. It is a 2 way contract. By buying books in a series we have an expectation that the author will release books in a timely manner. If we wait until it is complete before buying any books, then they can take as long as they like ;-)

This isn't at all a consideration for me, since most of the time when I start the first book of a series I never pick up the 2nd. Also if an author never finishes a series i'm fine with it ending wherever he or she stopped or died, even if its in the middle of a sentence.

I'm fairly sure the publisher would finish the sentence, however.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that everyone wait until a series is complete before purchasing a single book. But for me, in my early 60s, I'm not sure that some of these slower fellows will get me to the end of a story in the average lifetime of the american male. I remember my dad, in his older years, saying the he no longer bought green bananas... as I approach that age, it seems less like a joke! In my opinion, if you're going to write a book series, and you can't commit to turning out a volume every couple of years or so, you should probably re-think your plan. When I hear the author of a book series that already has several volumes say "I'm not sure if it will take me two or three more books to finish the story" I wonder if the author really has any idea what he or she is doing. Perhaps they fell in love with their own world and characters and are having a difficult time saying goodbye.

For me it depends on how much I need to retain for the next book, and the type of reading experience it is. I read the Malazan series once those were all released, and thank god, because there was no way it could have remembered all the characters with 1-2 years between books. However, the Dresden files has become a great once a year treat when it is released. Butcher will remind you the key details you need and I look forward to grabbing my book and reading it all in an evening or weekend. Many of those books are similar in style and plot structure though that I think plowing through all 15 would probably wear me out pretty quick.

While I can certainly understand your reasoning, George, I don't think I could do that. Coming to a series only when it's been completed, especially one with a huge fan base, kinda makes me feel like I'm arriving at a party when things are winding down, some of the guests have already left, and I missed all the fun stuff that everyone's going to be talking about the next day.

My problem is that there are just too many series I'm interested in, and I'm torn between reading the next book in a series that I've already started and beginning a new one that sounds like a lot of fun.

While I don't wait until a series is completed, I do wait until a number of books have been released before starting it. That's what I did with the Destroyermen and Iron Druid series, so if it sparks my fancy then I can continue knowing there are a good number of books still to read.

I also did that with the Safehold series, which has a concept I really like but oh my god is it long-winded and slow. You can skip entire chapters without missing a thing. Weber apparently has something wrong with his hands, so he switched to Dragon Naturally Speaking, which has increased his WPM tremendously. Unfortunately, his fans buy every book he writes, so he has no incentive to either edit or get to the point. So I, too, have bailed on that series. I know read summations on Wikipedia after a new book is released so I can keep up with plot.

I just turned 50 this year and while I've always been aware of my mortality, a couple of close calls in recent years have seriously reinforced that. Sometimes I feel like I can hear clocks ticking away the minutes of my life like Poe's Tell-Tale Heart -- tick tick Tick TICK TICK -- especially when I'm in the middle of doing something I don't like.

Or waiting 6 years for the next book in a series to drop. Sorry, no. Too many good books out there.

George wrote: "I've slogged through the first seven Safehold books. Mr. Weber, are you working on number 8. Are you ever going to end this story?..."

Yes and yes. Book 8 will be published October 13th.
http://www.amazon.com/Hells-Foundatio...
If you listen to the S&L author interview with David Weber, I asked that question. He intends to finish up the story arc in book 9.

AndrewP - thanks for the info. That gives me hope that I'll see the end.

I just took a look at my Audible and Kindle apps. I have 28 un-listened audiobooks and about a dozen waiting in the Kindle. I don't want to count those in the stack of physical books.

Maybe I need to make a different rule. Something like No more audio books can be purchased from Audible until an equal number of hours have been played! Or Don't buy another book for the Kindle until two have been read!

If the rumor is true that Amazon is going to start paying authors for pages read instead of books purchased, maybe the books will start getting shorter!

It's a good thing I'm retired. gs

George wrote: "AndrewP - thanks for the info. That gives me hope that I'll see the end.

I just took a look at my Audible and Kindle apps. I have 28 un-listened audiobooks and about a dozen waiting in the Kindle...."

Note story arc...you know he stated the series will not end until they beat the aliens, right.

Aaron wrote: "George wrote: "Note story arc...you know he stated the series will not end until they beat the aliens, right. ."

Not according to his interview. He said he no longer had any intention of continuing the current story to that point.
My guess is that he will have to skip forward 1,000 years or so if he want's to have the final confrontation.

AndrewP wrote: "Aaron wrote: "George wrote: "Note story arc...you know he stated the series will not end until they beat the aliens, right. ."

Not according to his interview. He said he no longer had any intenti..."

Yeah he mentioned before there would be a large time skip. But knowing Weber I highly doubt it's going to be a one off book.

George wrote: "AndrewP - thanks for the info. That gives me hope that I'll see the end.

I just took a look at my Audible and Kindle apps. I have 28 un-listened audiobooks and about a dozen waiting in the Kindle...."

The way I've cut down on my backlog is actually not to look at raw numbers but before I purchase a book, I have to go through my list of books and see if there's something similar. I.e. If I already have a fantasy adventure book then I don't need to buy another one quite yet. Oftentimes, there is something similar. If I feel put off from reading that book, I likely never will want to read it and I delete it from kindle or donate the book.

It all depends on how author ends his series books. If it is logically concluded (even if it is just one chapter in long series of adventures) then it's fine not to have a bold end-of-story dot. If every book ends with cliffhanger then it's pretty bad.

Janet wrote: "For me it depends on how much I need to retain for the next book, and the type of reading experience it is. I read the Malazan series once those were all released, and thank god, because there was..."

I totally agree. I stopped reading GoT after book three because I couldn't keep all the plot in my head with 5 years between books so now I'm waiting for GRRM to get closer to the end to pick it up again. As for Jim Butcher, he puts out a book a year; I'm gladly staying current because (1) there's no sustained gaps between books, and (2) it's a real series rather than just one story told over several volumes.

Aaron wrote: "AndrewP wrote: "Aaron wrote: "George wrote: "Note story arc...you know he stated the series will not end until they beat the aliens, right. ."

Not according to his interview. He said he no longer ..."

He's not doing the aliens at all. He said that he is too old to commit to finishing that story arc before he dies and therefore would not start it.

Alan wrote: "He's not doing the aliens at all. He said that he is too old to commit to finishing that story arc before he dies and therefore would not start it. "

That's too bad. I wanted to see that confrontation.

Let this be a lesson to other writers: don't faff around so much with your precious characters that you run out of time to get to the good bits of your story.

Edit: it rather felt like he was originally building to that, so I guess I can stop following this series altogether.

Alan wrote: "Janet wrote: "For me it depends on how much I need to retain for the next book, and the type of reading experience it is. I read the Malazan series once those were all released, and thank god, bec..."

Maybe that means he might actually finish Honor Harrington then before he dies.

Trike wrote: "Edit: it rather felt like he was originally building to that, so I guess I can stop following this series altogether."

Yeah, I guess not anymore. I still like the characters, though, and I see several ways he can end the series in which I'd be happy with it.

If you really want to see the alien confrontation, just (re)read the Dahak trilogy (specifically, "Heirs of Empire")--that's the original incarnation of the idea.

At least he's honest and admits he cannot write everything he wants to in his lifetime. Unlike some authors I could name:)

Is there supposed to be an end to Honor Harrington? I have always regarded it as an ongoing series.
Perhaps Merlin from Safehold goes on to defeat the GaBaba and founds a new Empire and calls it Manticore:)

David H. wrote: "... If you really want to see the alien confrontation, just (re)read the Dahak trilogy (specifically, "Heirs of Empire")--that's the original incarnation of the idea. ..."

Heh, I thought it was based on The Excalibur Alternative ;)

Honestly, I felt the originally announced scope of the Safehold series was meant to put in one series every trope to which he's returned over the years. Too bad Merlin is all-seeing; it took me out of the story and I stopped following it.

Just a note - If an author writes a series of extremely long books and decides it won't be finished, I think it's reasonable for the reader to expect a short epilogue, perhaps a short story, that wraps everything up. I mean, for crying out loud, in the case of Safehold, we don't need to know the thread size of every nut and bolt just to resolve a reasonable ending.

I am trying to avoid series that are not finished with few exceptions, unless the author has a record of producing at a reasonable rate (hello Brandon Sanderson, Joe Abercrombie has been good of late too).

While I agree with the "Author is not your B%#@&" comment, making people wait years for a sequel is not a very nice way to treat fans.

Nathan wrote: "While I agree with the "Author is not your B%#@&" comment, making people wait years for a sequel is not a very nice way to treat fans. "

And we have every right to bail on them. I wish more people would, so authors get the message.

Trike wrote: "And we have every right to bail on them. I wish more people would, so authors get the message."

Indeed. I have not started Game of Thrones for this very reason. I will probabaly not read an incomplete Pat Rothfless series ever again once the Kingkiller Cronicles are over (The flesh is weak. It is better not to start).

I personally enjoy the long story arc. And ongoing ones at that. If it is interesting and the world is full and exciting, I generally do not want that to end! But true - if, volumes in, things do linger too much and it becomes touristy without enough advancement to entice me to read further, I will call an end to it. Reading everything up to that point does not feel like a waste of time because it was time enjoyed. And if five years pass between installments, so be it. That is more time to catch up on other reading. If cobwebs form in the interim, going back and rereading to refresh can actually be a really pleasant thing.

But if you need closure and a hard and fast finish, this of course would not at all be what you are looking for!