The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Hello and welcome back, now to discuss the next part in our Dickensthon project. Please discuss your impressions and share your favorite quotes.

It was an unusually coherent section - it is all about Martin and his adventures in the bigger world. It is also this part of the novel where Martin's foibles and vices are exposed more than ever. I personally think that he is still a very likable character, and I view this part of the novel as a true rite-of-passage (pun is intended). His geographical passage possible signifies his personal passage and transition. But these are only hopes.

I think that Dickens up to the point parodies his earlier work The Pickwick Paperswhere the central part of the novel is the relationship between Mr. Pickwick and his loyal Sam Weller. This time the same time of human bonding is exaggerated, and I noticed Martin's nearly pathological dependence on Mark Tapley. Sometimes it was quite comical to observe it. For example, the episode when Mark chaperoned Martin's meeting/date with Mary (she finally showed up in flesh and blood) and reminded them about the flow of time.

Mark Tapley to me is a certain Deus ex Machina - he shows up from nowhere and 'offers' himself as a loyal servant and a companion, virtually saving Martin from his misery. The other question is a twenty-pound note that Martin receives from an unknown benefactor. My guess is either old Mr. Chuzzlewit or Mark Tapley (I understand how improbable the name of Mark Tapley is). Thomas Pinch is too poor to send that much money to Martin. Besides, he does not know where Martin resides.
Tapley's behavior on board the ship is truly noble - he helps the ones who need him most. And Martin is not the neediest one; he just plays the role of a victim or he sees himself as a victim. He is definitely a disappointment in the novel right now, but I still cherish hope that he is not as demanding and inept as he poses to be.

On the other hand, it is worth noticing that Dickens is very poetic in his descriptions of the rough sea and the struggling ship. I can not quote the whole passage because it is too big, but I would like to share this passage.
Still she comes striving on; and at her boldness and the spreading cry, the angry waves rise up above each other's hoary heads to look; and round about the vessel, far as the mariners on the decks can pierce into the gloom, they press upon her, forcing each other down and starting up, and rushing forward from afar, in dreadful curiosity. High over her they break; and round her surge and roar; and giving place to others, moaning depart, and dash themselves to fragments in their baffled anger. Still she comes onward bravely. And though the eager multitude crowd thick and fast upon her all the night, and dawn of day discovers the untiring train yet bearing down upon the ship in an eternity of troubled water, onward she comes, with dim lights burning in her hull, and people there, asleep; as if no deadly element were peering in at every seam and chink, and no drowned seaman's grave, with but a plank to cover it, were yawning in the unfathomable depths below.
This beautiful passage represents an eternal conflict between natural and artificial, between human daring curiosity and the powerful nature of an ocean. The syntax and repetition of certain structures conveys the tangible movement of the waves and heralds the bold human spirit. Sorry for being too emotional:-)

My favorite thing about Tapley is his quest to be jolly in a situation worthy of credit. I see a Biblical parallel here. Jesus often taught on this line. "If you do good only to those who are good to you, then what credit is it to you? Even evil men can do that much." Tapley's reasoning functions along the same line. If he is only jolly in situations which are favorable, then what credit is that to him? There is no credit in that. So, he is on a quest for an unfavorable situation, in which he can still be jolly, and thus he will receive the credit, presumably some kind of self-approbation, which he is looking for. His persistent thoughts on "jolliness" and "credit" are a consistently humorous story line throughout this text.

He seems to have found himself a situation which qualifies. He has placed himself under young Martin, who is incredibly selfish and thinks of no one but himself. Subconsciously, or maybe even on purpose, he has undertook an adventure that has every possibility of placing him in an undesirable circumstance. The immature, spoiled brat that he has chosen to follow seems to be the perfect leader to take him to an unfortunate situation. Thus, Mark has his wish. He is entering into a place in his life, where it will truly be a credit to him to be "jolly".

Pairing young Martin with Tapley serves to highlight the defects in Martin's character even further. I found myself rolling my eyes at his behavior on the sea voyage. There he is in steerage with families in much worse circumstances than his own and he's whining about how no one can understand his suffering. Meanwhile, Tapley is making friends and doing all he can to help his fellow passengers. I got a good chuckle when Tapley decided he'd found the perfect person to be jolly with.

Martin's self-absorption was also noticeable during his meeting with Mary - when he assumes the ring she gives him was given to her by his grandfather, and again when he seems to give no thought to her feelings about his travelling to America.

I also noted that while Tapley strives to rise above bad situations and remain "jolly" and kind to others, Martin seems to give in to them and lower himself rather than rise above it all. When he got to London he was initially embarrassed about going to the pawn shop but after he'd been there a few weeks he became comfortable lounging around in a dissolute manner and thought nothing of going in broad daylight to pawn his clothes. I could easily see him becoming another Tigg if a mysterious benefactor hadn't sent him the money for his passage to America.

That is a funny observation about him possibly becoming another Tigg. I think that is Dickens' point about the whole miserable family, for which he started mocking them from the very first paragraph. Some are worse than others, and while young Martin is selfish and self-seeking, he is by no means the worst. At least, he is the only one who has taken it upon himself to find his own means of acquiring wealth, instead of grovelling at the feet of Old Martin like the rest of the money grubbing crew. His independence and pursuit of becoming a self-made man is at least admirable. If not also, his only redeeming characteristic to this point.

Matters in the novel are taking an interesting turn! I loved Dickens’ description of the weather in comparison to Martin’s situation at the beginning of chapter 13: “The prospect could hardly have been more desolate if animated nature had been dissolved in water, and poured down upon the earth again in that form.” The statement reflects how far Martin has fallen, with the proverbial (and literal!) black cloud over his head. However, despite this, he still maintains a sense of pride and superiority; discovering the half-sovereign which Tom selflessly gave him (thus bankrupting himself), Martin is cheered by thinking how superior he is to Tom and how much more likely he is to be successful. I was disappointed but not surprised by his rather ungrateful feelings, although I wonder just how successful he will truly be in America.

The conversation between Martin and Bill Simmons, the driver who takes him to London, intrigued me. Simmons speaks of his friend Ned, who traveled to America and made his fortune only to lose it. I wondered if this could foreshadow a similar circumstance with Martin, but he does recognize how foolish Ned was, so perhaps he will be wiser?

The interaction between Martin and Tigg at the pawnshop was quite amusing. Tigg, who is obviously of a lower social class than Martin, nevertheless helps him to obtain money for his watch, then of course asks half-a-crown in commission. (I wonder if Tigg truly severed his connection with Slyme, or just told Martin that he had in an attempt to boost his own reputation.) This was interesting because for all of his supremacist sentiments, Martin is now being forced to seek help. We are told that he “lost his delicacy and self-respect” in only five weeks, yet pride keeps him from seeking further help from Tom, so he has not completely changed.

The sudden receipt of the 20-pound note surprised me, and naturally I wonder who sent it. Tom wouldn’t have the means, and Mark Tapley denies any knowledge of it. Speaking of Mark, I am glad to see him re-enter the narrative; how ironic that he becomes Martin’s valet yet has much more money than his employer! I hope that Martin will amend his narcissism and start treating others with more respect and dignity.

In Chapter 14 we finally see Mary again and learn that she has had a difficult life which has made her devoted and unspoiled. Given her nature, she seems better suited to be Tom’s wife than Martin’s, but I still hold out hope that Martin will become a better man. As it is now, however, he intends to take advantage of Tom, toward whom he is very condescending in his speech—labeling him an “infant” and an “old woman”—by sending letters to Mary through him and charging him with taking care of Mary in his (Martin’s) absence. Although Martin is unaware of Tom’s love for Mary and the subsequent pain which Tom will feel in caring for the woman he himself loves, he still treats Tom in a subservient manner. I was heartened by the fact that Mark recognizes Martin’s faults; Mark realizes that Mary has spent all of her earnings on the ring for Martin, although the latter assumes his grandfather gave it to her, and “from that moment he [Mark] had a clear and perfect insight into the one absorbing principle of Martin’s character.” Hopefully this portends a better future for Mark in that he will exhibit more wisdom and not be taken advantage of by Martin. Of course, bearing in mind that he needs to be miserable to be happy (hence the last word of the chapter, expressing Mark’s feelings—“Jolly!”), he seems to have chosen an appropriate position! He is such a quirky character; he is certainly intelligent and perceptive, yet he insists on demeaning himself. It will be interesting to see what becomes of him!

Chapter 15’s opening was my favorite so far. Dickens’ use of anthropomorphism and his detailed description of the storm at sea was magnificent—“the whole scene is madness.” This is contrasted with Mark’s continued “jollity” at being miserable and seasick aboard the Screw; he is exceedingly humorous, as he thinks “leeward” is a country and compares himself to a fly holding on to everything upside-down.

Dickens makes a point of emphasizing the poor condition of the passengers and the fact that, in spite of this, there “more of mutual assistance and general kindness to be found in that unwholesome ark, than in many brilliant ballrooms,” a commentary that is in line with Dickens’ treatment of the underprivileged and destitute. This should provide a lesson for Martin, who persists in being self-centered while Mark tends to those around him and takes an interest in their affairs. By placing himself in the most miserable circumstances, Mark always ends up being jolly because he makes the best of everything and helps whomever he can.

Zulfiya wrote: "It was an unusually coherent section - it is all about Martin and his adventures in the bigger world. It is also this part of the novel where Martin's foibles and vices are exposed more than ever. ..."

I love the allusion to a rite of passage; I, too, hope that Martin becomes a more compassionate and selfless character! Also, I wonder at Mark Tapley's sudden reappearance. He is certainly an apt foil for Martin!

The description of the sea was my favorite part of the novel thus far! It brings up the theme of man vs. nature, and I was reminded of Stephen Crane's "The Open Boat." :-) I think that Dickens' descriptiveness is just so delightful!

Jonathan wrote: "That is a funny observation about him possibly becoming another Tigg. I think that is Dickens' point about the whole miserable family, for which he started mocking them from the very first paragrap..."

It does seem like Martin could have become another Tigg if he hadn't received the mysterious 20 pounds and if Mark hadn't come along. I agree, though, that so far he is the most enterprising of the Chuzzlewit/Pecksniff clan. I do wonder, however, where Old Martin's scheming will take him and Pecksniff.

Yes, Martin has fallen in my estimation as he continues to hold himself above those who he should be grateful to, saying that Mary is worthy of his sacrifice, and picturing his (small) planned benevolence to Pinch as a great gift.

Martin and Mark show that "wherever you go, there you are". Mark will never totally be in a miserable state because he is so positive and unselfish. And as Martin is now, he wouldn't be satisfied even if he were rich, he would always want more of something - money, praise, adulation, power. And it's never his fault that things are going wrong! Don't we all know someone like that?

Martin, although not very likable, is at least an interesting main character.

Dickens main characters can tend to be blank slates and/or angelic martyrs (a la Oliver Twist and Little Nell) who aren't really all that compelling as stand alone characters.

Martin has many faults as everyone has pointed out but at least I want to find out what happens to him in America. My prediction is that the jolly and optimistic Mark will get along a lot better in the new world than the vain, shallow and lazy Martin.

Robin wrote: "Yes, Martin has fallen in my estimation as he continues to hold himself above those who he should be grateful to, saying that Mary is worthy of his sacrifice, and picturing his (small) planned bene..."

I didn't warm to Martin right from the beginning, but agree - he has fallen even further in my estimation as well because of his treatment of Mary and Pinch.

He's definitely a Chuzzlewit.

Although he does have one redeeming characteristic, which makes us still root for him - he truly is sacrificing for his love for Mary. He's giving up a fortune for her. So maybe there is hope.

I'm looking forward to seeing Martin and Mark's adventures in America. Also to see how Dickens disses America. I've heard so much about it, I've got to read it. :-)

When I was in grad school, I read a lot of immigrant literature, and in Martin, we see some of the echoes of those writings. They are coming to America to make their fortune. Of course, once they get to America, the streets aren't paved in gold, and it is extremely hard to make it day to day, let alone make a fortune. Especially in New York City.

As Sarah mentioned, I think that Bill Simmons' story about Ned, making his fortune and then losing his fortune, might foreshadow what will happen to Martin.

Also, can I express a hope? I hope that Mary and Tom Pinch get together. She said that she and the old Martin will be spending time with the Pecksniffs. She's nice. He's nice. And Tom is in love with her - that's why he's so quiet everytime Martin mentions her. Martin doesn't deserve someone that nice, but Tom certainly does. Let's hope Dickens thinks so too. ;)

Lynnm wrote: "Also, can I express a hope? I hope that Mary and Tom Pinch get together...She's nice. He's nice. And Tom is in love with her - that's why he's so quiet everytime Martin mentions her. Martin doesn't deserve someone that nice, but Tom certainly does."

I have that hope as well! As I was reading the description of Mary and her character in Chapter 14, I was struck by the similarities in Tom's character. At one point, Dickens says of her in relation to Martin: "That heart where self has found no place and raised no throne, is slow to recognize its ugly presence when it looks upon it." I was struck by the parallel this carries with the relationship between Tom Pinch and Pecksniff.

Sorry, I have not posted anything. I got a little behind.
You have already named all of the important topics. To me the most striking was the self-absorption and certain arrogance of Martin, the younger. I cannot really warm up to him, even though he has the potential to change, but the attitude towards Mary was just annoying.

Mark Tapley is becoming one of these very lovable, selfless persons. I was also positively surprized about his kindheartedness on the ship, esp. in contrast to the whining and self-absorbed Martin.