ROBUST discussion

It is called Miracle Rising : South Africa. It had it's debut last night on the History Channel here, the feed we get that is. It is well worth watching and while there are scenes of blood, dead bodies and the like, is well worth sitting through.

What's it about, Claudine?

We probably have the History Channel but they keep changing the Channel numbers so that it is infuriating to try finding anything even on two consecutive days, the hour max I can give to television on any day often being gone just when we find what we want. The upshot is that we stick mainly to the BBC and ITV channels, which remain in the single digit channel numbers.

It's a documentary in interview style with many of the key players from when Nelson Mandela was released, covering the TRC, Chris Hani's assassination, 1976 riots. People like Roelf Meyer and Cyril Ramaphosa talk about the CODESA negotiations, De Klerk gives a schpiel about his decision to stop our nuclear armament programme. Basically covers the years from when Mandela was released to the first election. There's quite a bit of video footage and stills of the dead, especially when they cover the TRC and Tutu starts talking.

Sounds interesting. I'll look out for it. Probably fewer dead than in a Bruce Willis movie.

True. Just very graphic in some instances. You can't pretend that it's just a movie though.

Just looked it up and it’s listed for Saturday. I have set the recorder (though it is not HD and will be stretched :-)), but not sure if I will be able to watch it, I cannot seem to pretend violence in a movie is ‘just a movie’, sigh...

I have just begun to read The Universe Within... by Dr Neil Turok. Turok is South African and is Director of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics, in Waterloo, Canada. The Institute was founded by Mike Lazaridis, founder of Blackberry, who donated at least $150 mil of his own money.

At the end of last year I saw an interview with Turok and was intrigued by the story of his family. His parents were activists in the anti-apartheid movement and the ANC. They were both thrown into jail, his mother released after six months; his father released to house arrest after six years and subsequently made an escape to Tanzania, his family following, and later London. His parents returned when the government was forced to change, and both were elected to parliament along with Mandela and his wife.

Turok is brilliant and is a friend and colleague of Steven Hawking. His best work, though, may be his initiative to found a ‘centre for education and research’, the African Institute for Mathematical Sciences (AIMS): http://www.aims.ac.za/ He unabashedly states the aim is to find Africa’s best and brightest, in hopes that the next Einstein may be found there.

I know SA has a long way to go, and I would not want to be in your shoes, Claudine, but it is remarkable what they have accomplished. Stories such as Turok’s are what bring hope to countries which are struggling to find their way...

I've heard of Turok. We had such hopes and dreams, huge aspirations. Sadly the reality of the Rainbow Nation which came out of that first election has degenerated into a corrupted and vile government who haven't lived up to the legacy of the years covered by the documentary. I won't go into detail. It isn't hatred as much as disillusionment of the current state of affairs vs the first 5 years of government by the ANC. Suffice it to say that a terrorist organisation cannot change overnight into a political entity. The mechanics of terrorising your way out of the political situation here during the 80s and transforming into an entity that understands what it means to serve your entire country and not just certain parts simply seems beyond the capabilities of the people currently in charge. The documentary isn't overly violent. The footage they show does show corpses in the streets. For instance Chris Hani who was one of the better ANC leaders, was gunned down in the street. Footage of his body covered by a sheet is shown. My kids are too young to watch it now. I'll wait until my daughter is 12 or so or better able to handle the images.

I also wanted to add, if anyone here reads Time magazine. Please don't take the article on the cover as the gospel truth. It must be one of the worst written pieces on the reality of life in this country I have read to date. There are such bad assumptions made on the life of the average white South African it is ludicrous. I haven't bought the Time in years and am so glad I stopped my subscription.

I remember once sitting in a meeting with Dr Rupert at the Rembrand HQ talking about buying out the Time Mag rear cover and both the inside covers, very expensive advertising space, and someone said, "Their effing 'news' bears no relation to reality," and the smartest guy at the table said, "Sure, their news is from another time, but Andre is talking about their subscription reach."

"...their news is from another time..."

Claudine wrote: "...Suffice it to say that a terrorist organisation cannot change overnight into a political entity..."

Claudine, that is sadly too true. It takes a long time to effect the kind of change needed for your country. My heart goes out to you and your family having to live through that.

Still, it is people like Turok who have hope and are in a position to do the small things that lead to the larger, who bring hope to others. In his interview he said his parents kept telling him and his siblings to give it time, that change would come one day. He did not believe them, and was surprised to see they were right. It is what made him hopeful...

Time can easily stretch to a generation or two. That is why there are revolutions.

Andre Jute wrote: "Time can easily stretch to a generation or two. That is why there are revolutions."

Yes. We are where we are because our forefathers worked toward this...

One of the reasons Lenin was so scathing towards "reformism" and "reformers" is that, given time, they can almost always achieve a bloodless solution, and almost always it is superior to bloody one.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

Andre Jute wrote: "I remember once sitting in a meeting with Dr Rupert at the Rembrand HQ talking about buying out the Time Mag rear cover and both the inside covers, very expensive advertising space, and someone said, "Their effing 'news' bears no relation to reality," and the smartest guy at the table said, "Sure, their news is from another time, but Andre is talking about their subscription reach."

"...their news is from another time..."

..."

I think their news is not only from another time but from a parallel dimension where someone takes their news as gospel. I guess it shouldn't amaze me anymore that people, especially foreigners, have no clue what goes on here. The journalist though has no excuse as he lives here too and should know better. They have a huge subscription base though which at the end of the day is all that matters I guess.

LOL. The CIA undercover guy used to make his HQ in the Langham Long Bar in Johannesburg. People used to point to his Buick Riviera standing outside and say, "He's inside. You can send a message to Langley, Virginia." He pretended to be a unit fund salesman. When the unit fund went bad, he pretended to work for Time. The journalist Stanley Valentine said, "He's just weird enough to pass." Like a TIME mag reporter had to be weirder than the CIA guy...

LOL! I have family that used to work as data analysts for our version of the CIA. Think they were or still are called NIS? Anyhow, when they heard that I was looking for civvie work after having spent 2 years in the navy, the one had her boss call me. Weirdest conversation ever. He actually came to see me. I have never felt more uncomfortable in someone's presence. He was just beyond weird. You know when you get a vibe off of someone that something's just not right inside that person's head? Well that was how I felt. Not that I had even contemplated working for them. I guess if you know someone who knows someone who works for an intelligence service, be very afraid that they will recruit you!

All intelligence services recruit in the families, on the unproven presumption that loyalty is inherited. It's rubbish, just a fancy version of the common nature or nurture dichotomy. Of course National Intelligence is an oxymoron, and Service is a lie.

Yup that is true! He brought a file with. It had my name and personal details on the cover. Scary stuff! That was in 1990. With all the stories going around about just how much information the security police could dig up, it was intimidating.

Andre Jute wrote: "...Of course National Intelligence is an oxymoron, and Service is a lie..."

Kench!

Once had a client who was a lawyer under our CSIS. Weirdest duck you ever saw. Walked with her head down, shoulders bent a foot in front of her feet, we set up her apartment with furniture from my store. Never flinched at prices, all paid for by you-know-who...

Sharon wrote: "Never flinched at prices, all paid for by you-know-who... "

You should have loaded the prices to get some of your taxes back!

Sharon wrote: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin"

Ben would be up in arms at our current society. The USA is a mockery of what it was in his day.