One Year In Search of Lost Time ~ 2015 discussion
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Great idea, Simon. Thanks for this. Exactly what I was looking for when I posted the article about the "translation" of ISOLT into a graphic novel.I read the rest of TGW last night and you are right about how short our last section is.
Of course Jacob is mostly away now, so i wonder whether we aren't a little late with this thread. And it seems like some people dropped the read or at least are busy and have fallen behind for now, so how many people might still be actively reading Proust and checking in here?By the way, Teresa, you seem to be quite active on goodreads and reading a lot, right? I think i saw you in another group. I'm also comoderating the Reading the Classics group and doing a read a month there, it's a nice place to discuss. It's decently active, though it seems lately people aren't that motivated to discuss, and there is another group called Catching up on Classics which seems a little more active and better organized, who have multiple optional reads every month and vote two months in advance. Maybe i'll check in there. I was also trying to start Mrs Dalloway on the side, but was busy with Proust and life these days ;)
I know of one friend who is reading these posts, though she's way behind on the schedule, so I'm sure there are others.Yes, and yes. :) I try to limit my group reads as they can overwhelm other things I want to read, so perhaps that is the case with others? This year for me is especially limiting, since Proust is my main focus. My favorite thing to do, though, is discuss with my GR friends, but I find that most of that is done in the comments sections of my and their reviews.
Re group discussions: They always seem to become less active over the summer. Vacations, family activities etc. get in the way and though I read every single day of the year, I know in some climes winter is the most active time for readers.
Hi guys!I'm still reading, but I have fallen a couple of weeks behind :/
I always check in with the threads when I finish a section but haven't chimed in, well, just because I'm behind :P
This is the first I've participated in a group read and really like it, but since Proust is such an undertaking I've resisted the urge to get into any other group reads (as much as i'd like to!)
Already with all of the additional info people have been posting, I get the feeling I'll spend another year getting further introduced to Proust, and will have to come back and re-read the whole thing....someday.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know I'm still at it, and very much appreciate all those who are better acquainted with Proust and are able to add so much more to this group.
Steph wrote: "Hi guys!I'm still reading, but I have fallen a couple of weeks behind :/
I always check in with the threads when I finish a section but haven't chimed in, well, just because I'm behind :P"
Thanks for checking in, Steph! :)
Nice to hear from you again, Steph. Maybe at some point in the summer you'll find yourself with some spare time and motivation and have some intense time with Proust to catch up (it's worth it). But don't worry, there's a time for everything!
I'm also still reading but have fallen behind - about halfway through 'The Guermantes Way' at the moment, but I've really got into it again and am finding it hard to put down, so hopefully will soon catch up. Like Steph, I'm reading the threads here each time I finish a section, and really appreciate seeing all the comments and info even though I haven't contributed much lately.
Just wanted to mention that it's great we're having so much discussion right now, dozens of posts in different threads by multiple members in a few hours!Also, this should probably go in the translations and editions thread, but I find some of Moncrieff's old-fashioned word choices strange, especially "shewn" instead of "shown" sounds ridiculous to me. Was that how it was written around 1920 or something in England? I can't remember it from other writers. Well, I guess it's his style, the "purple prose".
Simon wrote: "Was that how it was written around 1920 or something in England?"I think it was of a slightly older time; there are examples of it still hanging around in the 19th century.
Just to say I'm really loving The Captive and The Fugitive and finding it hard to put down - now several weeks ahead after being way behind!
The Captive is probably my favorite volume. Glad to know you're enjoying it, Judy!
i'm also enioying it very much so far though i'm only at week 2 or so. fell a bit behind the last weeks but will surely catch up soon. lots of intense relationship elements between Marcel and Albertine definitely are more appealing than long saloon scenes. not sure if this will top my great infatuation with volume one though. Let's see!
*more appealing than long saloon scenes in other volumes.i'm glad you seem to have kept up the weekly discussion without me, will go through that soon too!
Glad to know you like it too, Renato and Simon. I must say there is a fantastic salon scene in this one which I look forward to discussing when we get to that point - although I agree on some of the salon scenes in other volumes!
The Captive is my favorite also. Regarding the music related to the Vinteuil:
I put together a rough draft of some links...it is interesting how Proust thought of different musicians as he wrote the passages.
Using Bill Carter’s “Proust Ink” page as a guide...
http://www.proust-ink.com/proustaz-l/
(In the novel: Violin Sonata in F Sharp by a composer named Vinteuil)
Lacretelle, Jacques de (1888-1985), French novelist
In 1918, Lacretelle, with all the determination of a passionate bibliophile, had managed to procure one of the five copies of Swann's Way printed on Japan Imperial paper. Lacretelle sent the rare copy to Proust, asking him to autograph it. Proust, claiming to be poorly informed about what pleased bibliophiles, asked Lacretelle for advice. Would his young friend like him to write out certain pages from Swann's Way or excerpts from an unpublished volume? Or put in the margin of this copy rare notes indicating the few keys to characters in the Search? Or would he like some proof sheets to have bound in the book? In the postscript Proust asked for the "great pleasure of reimbursing" Lacretelle for the book. Thus he would have the illusion of having given him the rare copy.
Lacretelle asked Proust to reveal some keys and these were duly provided in a dedication, dated April 20, 1918, that he wrote in Lacretelle's copy of Du côté de chez Swann. Addressing Lacretelle as "Dear friend," Proust began by saying that there were "no keys to the characters in this book; or rather, there are eight or ten to a single one; equally, for the church at Combray, my memory borrowed several churches (or had them pose) as 'models'. I can no longer tell you which ones. I don't even remember if the paving is from Saint-Pierre-sur-Dives or Lisieux. Certain stained-glass windows are undoubtedly from Evreux, others from the Sainte-Chapelle and some Pont-Audemer"
Regarding Vinteuil's sonata, Proust said that his recollections were more precise.
"To the extent that I drew on reality, actually, a very limited extent, the little phrase from this Sonata, and I've never told anyone this before, is, at the Saint-Euverte soirée (to begin at the end), the charming but mediocre theme from a Violin and Piano Sonata by Saint-Saëns, a composer I dislike."
Saint-Saëns' (1885) Sonata No. 1 in D minor for Violin and Piano, Op. 75: I. Allegro agitato - Adagio"
by Midori (violin) and Robert McDonald (piano)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=du941rB...
or
***from an interesting blog
http://prufrocksdilemma.blogspot.com/...
"(I'll show you the precise passage, which recurs several times and was a triumph for Jacques Thibaud.)" Proust listed other works that he "wouldn't be surprised" if they had contributed to the music, such as Wagner's "Good Friday Spell," from Parsifal,"
(Wagner, L'enchantement du vendredi saint)
Wagner "Good Friday Spell" ('Parsifal')
Stokowski conducts the Houston Symphony Orchestra 1959
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwsYl...
or
Good Friday Scene from "Parsifal"
Conductor: Arturo Toscanini & BBC Symphony Orchestra.
Paintings by Caravaggio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaPXC...
"and later at the Sainte-Euverte soirée "when piano and violin lament like two birds calling to one another, I was thinking of Franck's Sonata, especially as played by Enesco (Franck's Quartet appears in later volumes)."
Proust first heard Enescu (violin) at the Salle Villiers, playing Franck's 1886 Sonata in A Major for Piano and Violin...one inspiration for Vinteuil's sonata.
César Franck's: Sonata for violin and piano in A major;
1st: Allegretto ben moderato
by Yehudi Menuhin and his sister, Hephzibah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JBcv...
or
Isaac Stern & Jean-Bernard Pommier - César Franck Violin Sonata in A major - 1st mvt.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ5KCcV...
Aside:
Here is Enescu playing the piano. "Pavane op. 10, unreleased performance by Enesco (Tibor Szász)”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57nnX...
"The tremolo passages played over the little phrase at the Verdurins' were suggested by the Prelude to Lohengrin,"
Lohengrin: Prelude to Act I - Wagner
Wilhelm Furtwängler, Bayreuth Festival Orchestra, Live Recording, 19 July 1936
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_m7P...
"but the phrase itself at that moment by a piece by Schubert."
Schubert:Impromptu in G flat major D899 No.3
Horowitz in Vienna
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6_Sb...
"At the same Verdurin soirée, it becomes a ravishing piano piece by Fauré.”
Fauré's Ballade in F sharp major for piano and orchestra, Op. 19;
Kathleen Long, National Symphony Orchestra dir. Boyd Neel, London, 1944
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDIC0...
(According to a letter in the fall of 1915 to Antoine Bibesco, it would be the Ballade)
***Aside-Book:
https://books.google.com/books?id=lTA...
Above: Selected Letters 4: 39; translation slightly modified.
From Carter’s
http://www.proust-ink.com/proustaz-l/
Proust’s letter in French follows:
Cher ami,
Il n'y a pas de clefs pour les personnages de ce livre: ou bien il y en a huit ou dix pour un seul; de même pour l'église de Combray, ma mémoire m'a prêté comme «modèles" (a fait poser), beaucoup d'églises. Je ne saurais plus vous dire lesquelles. Je ne me rappelle même plus si le pavage vient de Saint-Pierre-sur-Dives ou de Lisieux. Certains vitraux sont certainement les uns d'Évreux, les autres de la Sainte-Chapelle et de Pont Audemer. Mes souvenirs sont plus précis pour la Sonata. Dans la mesure où la réalité m'a servi, mesure très faible à vrai dire, la petite phrase de cette Sonate, et je ne l'ai jamais dit à personne, est (pour commencer par la fin), dans la Soirée Sainte-Euverte, la phrase charmante mais enfin médiocre d'une Sonate pour piano et violon de Saint-Saëns, musicien que je n'aime pas. (Je vous indiquerai exactement le passage qui vient plusieurs fois et qui était le triomphe de Jacques Thibaud). Dans la même soirée un peu plus loin, je ne serais pas surpris qu'en parlant de la petite phrase j'eusse pensé à l'Enchantement du Vendredi Saint. Dans cette même soirée encore (page 241) quand le piano et le violon gémissent comme deux oiseaux qui se répondent j'ai pensé à la Sonate de Franck surtout jouée par Enesco (dont le quatuor apparaît dans un des volumes suivants). Les trémolos qui couvrent la petite phrase chez les Verdurin m'ont été suggérés par un prélude de Lohengrin mais elle-même à ce moment-là par une chose de Schubert. Elle est dans la meme soirée Verdurin un ravissant morceau de piano de Fauré.
Corr. 17: 193-94 See notes 7-19. (Page 241, indicated by Proust, corresponds to 196 in Du côté de chez Swann).
...for Gilberte's arrival in the Champs-Élysées in the snow, I was thinking of somebody who, without her ever having known it, was the great love of my life (or the other great love of my life, for there have been two) Mlle Benardaky.... Naturally, the freer passages involving Gilberte at the beginning of À l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs have nothing whatever to do with the person in question, for I never had any but the most proper relations with her.
Selected Letters 4: 40
...j'ai pensé pour l'arrivée de Gilberte aux Champs-Élysées par la neige, à une personne qui a été le grand amour de ma vie sans qu'elle l'ait jamais su (ou l'autre grand amour de ma vie car il y en a au moins deux) Mlle Benardaky.... Mais bien entendu les passages plus libres relatifs à Gilberte au début de À l'ombre des Jeunes filles en fleurs ne s'appliquent nullement à cette personne car je n'ai jamais eu avec elle que les rapports les plus convenables.
Correspondance 17: 194
Proust made similar revelations in a brief letter to Antoine Bibesco, sent in the fall of 1915.
In any case, Proust's closest friends had long known the origin of the little phrase. He first heard the prelude to Lohengrin on its one hundredth performance at the Opéra, May 7, 1894.
Dear Antoine,
Just a line to thank you with all my heart and tell you that the Vinteuil sonata is not Franck's." If you're interested (which I doubt!), I shall tell you, with a copy in my hand, all the works (some of them mediocre) which 'posed' for my sonata. Thus the 'little phrase' is a phrase from a sonata for piano and violin by Saint-Saëns which I'll hum to you (tremble!); the restless tremolos above it come from a Wagner prelude; the opening with its plangent rise and fall, is from the Franck sonata; the more spacious passages from Fauré's Ballade, etc., etc., etc. And people think that these things are written at random, 'off the cuff'."
Selected Letters 3: 322.
Cher Antoine,
Une seule ligne car je suis très souffrant pour te remercier de tout cœur et te dire que la Sonate de Vinteuil n'est pas celle de Franck. Si cela peut t'intéresser (mais je ne pense pas!) je te dirai l'exemplaire en mains, toutes les œuvres (parfois médiocres) qui ont «posé" [pour] ma Sonate. Ainsi la «petite phrase» est une phrase d'une Sonate [pour] piano et violon de Saint-Saëns que je te chanterai (tremble!) l'agitation des trémolos au-dessus d'elle est dans un Prélude de Wagner, son début gémissant et alterné est de la Sonate de Franck, ses mouvements espacés Ballade de Fauré etc. etc. etc. Et les gens croient que tout cela s'écrit au hasard, par «facilité».
Correspondance 14: 234-36
Via Carter’s Proust Ink
http://www.proust-ink.com/proustaz-l/
Wow, that's great info for the music in Proust, thanks Marcelita! That seems to cover just about everything regarding the "little theme" of Vinteuil's and other passages.Though i think it may equally be Saint-Saens' sonata No. 2 instead of 1 (or both).
Notification of a book signing by Prof Bill Carter of his newly release "In the Shadow of Young Girls in Flower" just received. See below.Dear Proust Readers,
We are pleased to announce that there will be a book signing of In the Shadow of Young Girls in Flower at the Little Professor Book Center in Homewood, AL on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. As you know, this is the second volume of the famous Scott Moncrieff translation of Marcel Proust’s In Search of Lost Time, edited and annotated by William C. Carter and published by Yale University Press. For early readers’ reaction to this edition, please visit www.readingproust.com or the early reviews on Amazon.
Also available for purchase will be Benjamin Taylor’s new book Proust: The Search (also published by Yale U P) that features two of Nicolas Drogoul’s photographs of places in France that inspired Proust. Nic will be present at the signing to sign and sell a selection of his photographs from the portfolio of his ambitious project, Photographing Literary Landscapes: Marcel Proust’s France.
We hope that you will be able to join us and celebrate the publication of these two new books by and about Marcel Proust.
Bill and Nic
For press releases of these two books please follow the links below:
In the Shadow of Young Girls in Flower
Proust: The Search
In the Shadow of Young Girls in Flower by Marcel Proust
Proust: The Search by Benjamin Taylor
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Ben wrote: "Notification of a book signing by Prof Bill Carter of his newly release "In the Shadow of Young Girls in Flower" just received. See below ..."Ben, I didn't know, or forgot, you are also a subscriber.
I just received another email today:
Dear Proust Readers,
An article was recently published by the University of Alabama at Birmingham's (UAB) Reporter on our new revised and annotated edition of Scott Moncrieff's translation of Proust's novel. The interview coincided with the publication of volume 2, In the Shadow of Young Girls in Flower. Please follow the link below to read the article.
http://www.uab.edu/reporter/people/ac...
All best,
Bill and Nic
Marcelita wrote:<>
I also received the same email today.
I'm almost positive I saw an overall schedule for ISOLT somewhere in the links months ago, but I can no longer find it. Jacob or Simon or anyone, any clue to its whereabouts? I did a search and came up empty.
I'm working on the schedule right now. I don't remember ever putting together an overall schedule. Maybe you saw it on another Proust group read? In the group rules there's a break down of the %s of each book, each week. I haven't yet decided on how to break down the last two books because, whether I made a mistake in the math or the schedules, I have us ending December 26th instead of the 19th like I wanted.I haven't decided if we should up our weekly reading by 10% each week (6 pages in my edition), add 20-30 pages to the last week of each book, or just read until December 26th. If someone has a preference then let me know.
I suppose I'll just evenly divide the last two books into 9 weeks so we can finish reading on the 19th of December. I think that's best since it's a busy time of year, many people travel, and I for one would like a week off before I start over at the beginning!
Ending on the 19th sounds good. Though i think a good option too is adding 20-30 pages to the last week. At that point one is eager to get to the end and doesn't mind the extra pages. But even split sounds good too.
Thanks, Jacob. I must've dreamed it. ;)
I made it an even split because I figured that most of us have only taken the schedule as a guideline anyway - sometimes getting behind, sometimes getting ahead - and discussed each week's section whenever we get to it. So if some of us just want to keep to our regular pace and then read 20-30 pages extra at the end of each volume it'll be pretty close to what happens anyway.
Just two more to go, guys! :-) how's the read so far?
Renato wrote: "Just two more to go, guys! :-) how's the read so far?"It's been great, Renato. I can't believe we're almost done.
Oh boy, i got behind in the reading schedule again!And it's not for lack of interest, i'm currently near the end of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the stuff between Albertine and the narrator is highly emotional and interesting.
But I'm not worried about not catching up at some point, if necessary i'd gladly read the whole rest around christmas. And I do read almost every day even now.
Any Proust news for you?
Ah yes, I've gotten behind too! So that's why October's been such a quiet month. I'm about 30 pages into the Fugitive so it shouldn't be hard too catch up. The problem is I get a little behind and then keep up with the regular pace so I just stay that far behind.
Treat...not to be missed, of you are a Proust-fan. For the next 28 days, you can listen to BBC Radio 4's "theatrical" adaption of Proust's novel.
I have heard about this series for years, but the BBC has never made it available, until now!
Only three of the six have been broadcast to date, so please take an hour and listen to this unusual perspective. I find myself smiling at the...artistic freedoms.
Swann's Way:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0076...
They have the next two volumes uploaded and will add another every day.
Within a BuddingGrove: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0076qgd
The Guermantes Way:. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0076qkb
I'm in the middle of vol. 2, but just discovering this group now. So I am certainly not going to make to the end of the last volume by December 26, but happy to have found y'all.
Hi AraLucia! It's great to see you starting such an ambitious read. I've found it incredibly rewarding!
Great, just look for the discussions threads of vol. 2 and make a comment if you like, i'm sure some of us will love to discuss! We'll try our best not to reveal spoilers to you, too.
AraLucia wrote: "I'm in the middle of vol. 2, but just discovering this group now. So I am certainly not going to make to the end of the last volume by December 26, but happy to have found y'all."Welcome! There is no need to rush, as there will always be Proustians floating around in the GR's ether to vicariously read along with you. And as Simon pointed out, we won't reveal any spoilers.
So, you are in Balbec now...
OMG OMG OMG OMG.... I'm reading Within a Budding Grove (Moncrieff/hardcover)... and I don't want to be a spoiler for anyone who isn't to this part yet...but I'm freaking out about what just happened on page 578! I didn't see it coming as there are so many things of this nature that don't turn out to be of any significance. And for some reason, I was under the impression this wasn't going to happen until The Guermantes Way.
I'm going nuts! I just regaled my husband of the last thirty pages or so of plot, because I am so beside myself. He indulged me knowing what a big deal this is even though he couldn't care less.
So I just had to share here. Can't wait to find out what happens next.
Heh, it's nice to see such a strong reaction to the story, i think you're topping all of our group there.Unfortunately i'm not sure what you're talking about that was so surprising in the second volume. Maybe something about Albertine?
I think it's fine to put spoilers here with the warning you've given. In doubt, use the spoiler tags, so one has to click to see the text, like <"spoiler"> spoiler text here <"/spoiler"> without the quotation marks.
I just got Paintings in Proust for Christmas, which shows all the paintings Proust references, looks wonderful :) with that companion, i'm feeling more and more like rereading Proust all over. The introduction is very thoughtful, starting with a quote from ISOLT itself that shows how when Proust references a painting we don't know, we lack that aha-moment of understanding how he uses the reference:
(view spoiler)
Here's that painting:
http://www.musee-orsay.fr/en/collecti...
I guess the simple alternative is googling the painting. Though sometimes Proust writes about fictional paintings, and there this companion helpfully gives a hint what similar real paintings Proust might have had in mind.
That's a very beautiful book, Simon. I used it as a companion for my two reads :-)
Since you are mentioning her name, I feel safe to say, it was just that Albertine was introduced. As I didn't think she was introduced until the next volume, I was beside myself to realize that the subject of this particular fascination was she.
It's Proust's 145th birthday today, so just thought I'd drop by this group to say hello to everyone who took part in the read last year. Let's all dip a madeleine in a cup of tea today.
Judy wrote: "It's Proust's 145th birthday today, so just thought I'd drop by this group to say hello to everyone who took part in the read last year. Let's all dip a madeleine in a cup of tea today."If you understand French...readers who adore Proust!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9jSJ...
Thanks Marcelita! I see this has German subtitles so I should be able to follow it as my German is better than my French.
Judy wrote: "Thanks Marcelita! I see this has German subtitles so I should be able to follow it as my German is better than my French."I don't see the subtitles. ;(
Marcelita wrote: "Judy wrote: "Thanks Marcelita! I see this has German subtitles so I should be able to follow it as my German is better than my French."I don't see the subtitles. ;("
Ah, you're right, it's only for the opening titles. I will try to follow though... thank you again.
I'm looking forward to finishing volume 3, the last part this week is rather short.
I just read again that ISOLT is the longest novel on the record at 1,267,069 words, double the amount of War and Peace. Of course that means ISOLT is twice as good too ;)
By the way, i just found an excellent introduction article to How Proust can Change your Life, and its author Alain de Botton's video introduction to that. The 9-minute video makes some good points about what Proust does in ISOLT, how art allows you to have a more colorful vision of life, and may raise your motivation to read it some more. There are spoilers up to the Guermantes saloon meetings, which we're finishing now, so i think it doesn't spoil the read now.
http://www.brainpickings.org/2015/06/...