Georgette Heyer Fans discussion

How many times have you read it?
Is this anyone's first time?
What format are you using?

This is of the ones I have read countless times, but not for a very long time! My memory of it has it as a 4*

I have unearthed my battered old Pan as I don't want my Arrow to get all beat up in the luggage.

This was the first Georgette Heyer I read and I've read it several times since.

I'll be listening to the audio book this time :)

I'm reading the Arrow version—with a pencil in my hand to mark the typos!

Loving the vivid descriptions; I can really see the surroundings for each scene. The story is wildly improbable, but all the more delicious for that. And another great dog! (But sorry, Bouncer, Ulysses from Arabella still my favorite.)

I re-read this one often, because it is one of my favourites. I'll also be listening to the audiobook.

I have an old large type paperback that is falling apart: this is one of my very favorite Heyer.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I...

some of her books that I love start slow, like The Foundling. great scenes at the end of the book but you have to read a lot to get there. The Reluctant Widow has an excellent scene almost right away: Our Heroine thinks Lord Carlyon is a spoiled boy's father - seven years old and his problem is brandy! priceless scene.

I can't find my copy. :(

No idea how many times I have read it but my copy is in pretty good shape so it is not as often as others I have by GH. My copy is a Pan paperback from 1962.

Lost count of the number of times I have read this one. Up there with my favourites! My Pan paper book fell apart and I now have a relatively new one as well as a kindle version on my iPad. I am reading the paperback version now. I agree with Jackie that TRW starts with wonderful scene-setting and pulls you straight in. It is difficult when you know the story inside out to remember that when first reading - the comedy of errors is actually really surprising, funny and well drawn, I think GH's knowledge of the Napoleonic Wars and the spy networks that were set up really come to the fore in this book. Her characters have a 'fullness' that sometimes is missing in a few of her other books. Looking forward to this - my first group read!

This is my second time (my first re-read!) and I am reading it on my kindle, (free through my library!)
I remember liking it, but it not being one of my top five GH reads.

My strongest memory is that ding dong dog! <3 The dogs in her books are all awesome, even poor old PUG from Friday's Child. (Yes, I have pugs, but not overfeed and fat).

I have a Jove 1982 edition, which is relatively new, but you wouldn't be able to tell from the falling out pages! I acquired it from a friend who found a whole box of Heyers in a basement a few years ago, and this must have been one of the owner's favorites!

people need to get reading and posting about it!!

I already started by saying I love the early scene where Heyer has Miss Rochdale slightly freaked out by the run down mansion and then the supposed "Mr. Macclesfield" and the dialog where he is talking about his bum cousin and she thinks it's a seven year old - did I mention I love this book?
I also love the intro of Nicky and all the interplay between the three brothers. Eustace is the only character that doesn't seem fully drawn and who cares? he is just a plot device, so she can be a widow (reluctantly!)
nice interactions with the doctor,rector and the staff at the inn. don't worry, everyone will swear it wasn't Nicky's fault, even if they weren't there!

One of my GH favourites: so it was no problem to re-read! I think it is one of GH's best plotted stories - she draws you into Elinor's world from the beginning, and the comedy of errors is so well devised and portrayed that it is believable. I think the first meeting between Edward and Elinor sets the bar for the following encounters. The dialogue is a delight - as usual GH's heroines are no missish maidens unable to stand up for themselves - even in that male dominated Regency period. The immediate plot development with Nicky's arrival and subsequent move to the inn where the nasty Mr Eustace Cheviot awaits:- ready to do as much mischief as he can is really cleverly done. I think GH manages to convey sufficient of his character to let us understand what Carlyon and his family have been up against and appreciate why he would be prepared to marry a complete stranger if he thought it would be to the detriment of Lord Carlyon. I think GH appreciated as few authors do that there is a time for speed and a time for slowing things down. The Reluctant Widow is an example of that par excellence. I love the byplay between Elinor and Nicky - GH always does teenage boys of that era so well!! I personally would have refused at least one of his requests (no spoilers here!!) The introduction of the other players in the drama - de Castres and Bedlington are neatly done and I just love Becky - in whose eyes Lord Carlyon can do no wrong - to Elinor's chagrin. The Napoleonic back-story is well researched and I am guessing it is set in about 1813 and the potential battle that Wellington is planning might be Vitoria which would explain why they were keen that Napoleon did not get hold of the memorandum! I like to think Harry and Juana from SB are out there at the time! Synchronicity!! I think GH is to be congratulated on her meticulous research in all aspects of her books. When I read stuff today that is absolutely full of historical inaccuracies - I could weep!!!

Just at the start of Chapter 9. I still find Carlyons original motivation a.bit weak but the sparkling dialogue & secondary characters just win me over

I had forgotten how funny this one is! I'm enjoying everything from Nicky's youthful appreciation of Bouncer's suspect qualities to dear Becky being on Carlyon's side from the very start of their acquaintance to Heyer's masterful description of Bedlington's physical appearance. It's not hard to see why it's such a favorite of so many.

The interaction of all the brothers is delightful, too, and feels very real.

all GHs historical dogs have such unique characters unlike the murder mystery ones

I tried listening to this one a year ago on audiobook and couldn't get through it. Everyone seems to love it so much though that I'm going to give it another go. I don't want to be left out of all the fun.

I agree with the comments by Jackie and Susan, especially about how humorous this book is. I've read it countless times, and listen to it often too. The beginning is excellent: just enough of the Gothic novel to make Elinor laugh at herself for her imaginings, yet truly odd enough to make her wonder what she's let herself in for. The conversation with Carlyon when they are at cross-purposes is so good; she is able to meet him as an equal because of her background, while trying to be governess-like until she realises that he isn't in fact Mr Macclesfield.

Nicky is such an attractive character, and more of Carlyon's (excellent) character is revealed by Nicky's complete faith in his ability to make everything all right again, even the killing of his cousin! (I wonder why John is so prosy? Is he perhaps a little jealous of Nicky?)

The dream-like quality of the rest of the night, when seen through Elinor's eyes, is very good too -- she must be exhausted from travelling in a stage coach all day. (Incidentally, how many stage coaches go through that part of the world? I'm surprised she and Nicky didn't find themselves travelling companions.) The switch to another point of view is seamlessly done -- almost Carlyon's, but not quite because we don't get any insight into his thoughts.

We see through Elinor's eyes how attractive he is, especially in the description of him just before breakfast -- those very broad shoulders!

I am enjoying my re-read (for the nth time) very much.

HJ you just said it all for me! The humor of that first conversation is perfect. I also felt that dream-like quality to the night and her exhaustion and bewilderment.

There is a wonderful moment when she and Carlyon talk about Elinor's father, the famous whip and his much-coveted greys, when Elinor's loss is made clear. Carlyon understands this totally and Elinor is almost undone by how completely he comprehends the painful reality of her new life.

Carlyon is quite likable here--undeniably handsome, clearly someone his brothers admire and trust absolutely. He's managing and very decisive, but I find it less grating than it might be since Carlyon has clearly been required to handle a large and bumptious family for years.

I like the skillful way GH draws each family member. Nicky rather dangerously cavalier and young for his age, John so prosy, but also touchingly devoted to Carlyon.

Yes, I think Carlyon decides to take Elinor under his wing and look after her in the same way he does his siblings, and that means he decides what's best for her! Irksome for her, but also comforting in a way after feeling so alone and unsupported for six years.

HJ wrote: "Yes, I think Carlyon decides to take Elinor under his wing and look after her in the same way he does his siblings, and that means he decides what's best for her! Irksome for her, but also comfort..."

I've been trying to pay attention to whether or not Carlyon comes off best in all of their exchanges, because it seems that he does. She's intelligent and full of humor, but I wonder if he always gets the best of her because she's spent the last six years trying to get her personality under control? Although she's being sarcastic with him, his dry wit seems to always trump hers. And I love that she sees that, too, and is torn between laughter and annoyance!

I think you're right -- I'll keep an eye on that too from now on.

I'm on my third paperback copy... so heaven knows how many times I've read it! I didn't know there was an audiobook version available; can anyone tell me how to get it?

I love the beginning when Elinor gets on the wrong coach and there is the misunderstanding with Carlyon. Although I do wonder: what became of Mrs Macclesfield's coach? Did she forget that the new governess was coming that day?

The only thing I'm not mad about with this book is Nicky (he's terrifically well-written, and I have known young men like him, but heavens! they are mind-boggling irritating people to be around) and his blankety-blank dog.

The audiobook is one which I can remember listening to on cassettes and later on CDs, so second-hand copies of those may be available e.g. on eBay. Your library may have a copy either on CD or in digital (some libraries subscribe to Overdrive, for example).

Alternatively, you can get it digitally. I get mine through Audible, which is part of the Amazon group. You pay so much a month and get so many credits each year. You buy audiobooks using either a credit or (when it's cheaper, e.g. when they have a sale) cash. All your audiobooks are kept in your library in the cloud, and you can download them onto different devices and even cut yourself CD copies if you want to (and have the technology and knowledge). But there are Audible apps averrable for a wide variety of phones and devices, and they're very easy to use. Just be sure to check that your device is compatible before you subscribe.

Although I do wonder: what became of Mrs Macclesfield's coach? Did she forget that the new governess was coming that day?

The stagecoach actually arrives a few minutes early; Heyer notes that the driver checks the time and realizes he can grab a quick pint at the inn before continuing on his way. Given that, it would only take the Macclesfield gig being a few minutes late for it to miss Elinor entirely.

Howard wrote: "In the first part of the book, I was enjoying myself. But I don't think Heyer does mysteries well, and I certainly don't care for letting high-status people getting away with murder."


Sorry Howard, but I think she does mysteries rather well - they are indeed the personification of their era and both her historical and contemporary fiction totally reflect what the genre was like at the time of writing. However if you don't think she does the genre well, you may as forget an awful lot of her books!

who got away with murder? not Nicky, Eustace was killed accidentally in a fight Eustace started.

oh, that's not who you mean. well, that doesn't belong in this thread, too early.

(view spoiler)[I guess you mean Francis (hide spoiler)]

I just love Becky - in whose eyes Lord Carlyon can do no wrong - to Elinor's chagrin.

ooh, I forgot her - another excellent character.

Susan wrote: "Howard wrote: "In the first part of the book, I was enjoying myself. But I don't think Heyer does mysteries well, and I certainly don't care for letting high-status people getting away with murde..."

Her mysteries have good characterization - but they are pretty obvious. Still, my biggest complaint was in having the elite getting away with murder.

Howard wrote: "Susan wrote: "Howard wrote: "In the first part of the book, I was enjoying myself. But I don't think Heyer does mysteries well, and I certainly don't care for letting high-status people getting a..."

I think the enjoyment we experience depends on what we're reading for. I tend to read Heyer for the wit and humor and the characters themselves, although I do think several of her mysteries have clever solutions: A Blunt Instrument comes to mind.

I really enjoy her mysteries. They have a bit more bite than, say, Agatha Christie, but no more than any contemporary mystery writer. They are very enjoyable.

Murder means many things according to the many different laws of our world. Trying to take into account what I little I know of any legal system, I do not think the death at the beginning of the book was murder at all.

Critterbee wrote: "Murder means many things according to the many different laws of our world. Trying to take into account what I little I know of any legal system, I do not think the death at the beginning of the book was murder at all..."

It certainly was not, according to the law of England and Wales (the applicable law for Nicky). A crucial element of murder is mens rea, the intention to unlawfully cause either death or serious injury. At no point did Nicky form that intention. He knocked Eustace down with his fists, after provocation, but he did not snatch up the knife. He ended up wrestling Eustace for the knife to stop Eustace from hurting him with it, and Eustace was stabbed entirely by accident.

Had Eustace killed Nicky he would have been guilty of murder, because he picked up the knife to use it against Nicky. It is extremely likely that hurting someone with a knife will cause death or serious injury.

Eustace was a member of "the elite" just as much as Nicky was, but the coroner's jury would have found Nicky's death to be murder (had Eustace succeeded in his intention), and Eustace would have been tried.

I may be confusing books - but I wasn't thinking about in the start of the book, I was thinking of at the end of the book.

that's why it doesn't belong in a thread about the first 10 chapters.

Sorry I confused people. At this stage the book isn't a mystery and doesn't have a murder. I did say that I enjoyed the first part of the book. It was the ending that disappointed me.

There is a separate thread for that. Just sayin'... :)

Howard wrote: "Sorry I confused people. At this stage the book isn't a mystery and doesn't have a murder. I did say that I enjoyed the first part of the book. It was the ending that disappointed me."

Hey, Howard, I just posted some thoughts about the murder in the spoiler thread. Share yours, too, there!

Karlyne wrote: "Howard wrote: "Sorry I confused people. At this stage the book isn't a mystery and doesn't have a murder. I did say that I enjoyed the first part of the book. It was the ending that disappoin..."

I didn't know about spoiler threads! Thanks

Hi Howard. All our group reads divide the book into 2 parts then a spoilers thread. If u have posted anything that could spoil the book 4 someone who has never read it before, could you delete it or put it between spoiler tags. Im low on data but will be home later today

Anyone with little brothers feel a tad annoyed by Nicky?

Just saying...

Critterbee wrote: "Anyone with little brothers feel a tad annoyed by Nicky?

Just saying..."

My younger brother was so different that I can't even relate Nicky to him!

I have three younger brothers, one of them very like Nicky.
The second is more like John, and the third has MNT (Moderate Nicky Tendencies).
Thankfully, no Eustaces.

I think GH is spot on with birth order personalities.

Critterbee wrote: "I have three younger brothers, one of them very like Nicky.
The second is more like John, and the third has MNT (Moderate Nicky Tendencies).
Thankfully, no Eustaces.

I think GH is spot on with bi..."

Oh, dear, my brother was closer to a Eustace than a Nicky. But that's not fair, since he wasn't that bad! Looking at other families near and dear to me, I do see several Nickys-in-training. A few more years...

I'm reading along, you've put everything so well I don't feel the need to chime in but I'm agreeing with you.

I got my audio copy from Audible too.

Jackie wrote: "I just love Becky - in whose eyes Lord Carlyon can do no wrong - to Elinor's chagrin.

ooh, I forgot her - another excellent character."

Yes I'd like to agree re Becky too, she is so perfect with Nicky ( gruel and so on) and of course, finds Carlyon utterly perfect . What is it that Elinor says crossly - "oh only let a man tyrannise over you Becky and you think him perfection " or something like that . I believe Miss Beccles had just opined (in a comfortable manner) that it is always best to leave it for gentlemen to decide things.......

I'm finding it interesting to compare Elinor to the other GH heroines which we have recently read. She is much more independent than Leonie/Mary/Judith and much older.

The various comments made by Carlyon and Elinor regarding her possible life as a governess, is very much in line with the description of the role in Agnes Grey.

I might want to read that,thanks for sharing.

Karlyne wrote: "Critterbee wrote: "I have three younger brothers, one of them very like Nicky."

When my husband and I listened to TRW together, Nicky strongly reminded both of us of a former colleague of mine--charming, amiable, feckless, irrepressible. I called him a helium balloon.

Carol ♔ Type, Oh Queen! ♔ wrote: "Just at the start of Chapter 9. I still find Carlyons original motivation a.bit weak but the sparkling dialogue & secondary characters just win me over"

I find Carlyon's motivation weak as well.

Aside from ECheviot and his father's relatives, (view spoiler)[I don't find it creditable that the neighborhood would think Carlyon covets ECs ramshackle I'll managed property. To inherit such a badly used property would be more of a punishment to Carlyon's, than any sort of welcome gift. If EC weren't so addled with drink, he should see that inheriting high noons would be the greatest nuisance to Carlyon to either set it to rights with his own money, or to try to get someone to buy it! I can't believe with ECs bad rep in the region, that he'd care what Cheviot's have to say to anything! (hide spoiler)]