SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

What are your first thoughts on this book? I hadn't heard much about it until the Hugo nominations. I don't think I've read a modern Chinese novel before.

I've been reading it from the Hugo media pack.

It's an interesting read but so far I question whether something was lost in the translation to English. The language seems kind of flat and lifeless to me, as if the original was written more poetically but the translation didn't quite capture it. I have no way of knowing if that's the case or not.

It's certainly different from what I'm familiar with...however I'm not really sure it's worth an award (though I must say, compared all but one other nominee, it's a contender).

For me, the parts revealing aspects of the Cultural Revolution are the most compelling. Otherwise, the characters really feel cardboard, without that spark of life.

I read this book about three months ago. I agree about the characters, to me they appeared bland and lacking development. But the idea behind the book was very interesting and well executed. I also liked to read the parts about the Cultural Revolution, they provided the story with additional flavour.

I heard about this book on Tor podcast and as it was available at a very cheap price on amazon immediately bought it, and will definitely share my thoughts once I start reading the book.

I've read a few translations of Chinese novels, and so I don't expect it to read the same way an American or English language novel reads. The flatness of character spoken of here has been present in most Chinese authors (not Chinese-American) I've read, and I enjoy it because it lends what feels like the proper ambiance or attitude to their fiction... it gives me a real sense of the culture, and the characters, since it seems very much like what a Chinese citizen speaking English would sound like.

Then again, it might be the translation, because I've noticed that Cixin Liu has chosen a different translator for each of his novels, so maybe he hasn't been happy with any of them. I always have to keep in mind, however, how very different Chinese culture is compared to the American culture (if there is such a thing) I live in.

Anyway, if it wasn't for the fact that I know the author is leaning heavily on physics phenomenon for this novel, there are times I think this reads like magical realism. No wonder the physicists I know are such wacked out people :)

I'd really like to hear someone who's read it in both Chinese and English talk about the translation.

And you're right, Janice, it does often get close to magical realism.

Janice George (JG) wrote: "Then again, it might be the translation, because I've noticed that Cixin Liu has chosen a different translator for each of his novels, so maybe he hasn't been happy with any of them."

The translator of The Dark Forest is different because of the short period of time between the releases of the two volumes. The translator of the first and third book in this trilogy is the same, Ken Liu, who is a sci fi/ fantasy author in his own right, and a good one if I may add. Up to now he's written mostly short stories and novellas which won Hugo, Nebula and World Fantasy Award prizes (i.e 'The Paper Managerie') or were nominated, and he also won a prize for translation from Chinese. Earlier this year his debut full-length fantasy novel was released, The Grace of Kings, which is interesting and well written, albeit IMHO also suffering from a certain flatness of characters which I agree with you is present in other Chinese authors too (at least the ones I've read...).Therefore I doubt it that Liu Cixin was dissatisfied with the translation. In the introduction (or was it the afterword..?) to The Three-Body Problem Ken Liu speaks of what an honour it was to translate the book into English and how they befriended one another with the author in the process.

Micah wrote: "I'd really like to hear someone who's read it in both Chinese and English talk about the translation.
"

That person would additionally have to have read both versions to tell us anything about the translation...

Hmm, interesting commentaries. I was excited about this book, but now.............well, maybe my feet are starting to get just a little cooler.

Edwin wrote: "Hmm, interesting commentaries. I was excited about this book, but now.............well, maybe my feet are starting to get just a little cooler."

They shouldn't. It's an excellent hard sci fi book with lots of interesting concepts. We've just mentioned a couple of the book's weaknesses, which may very well be alleviated in the following volumes of the Three-Body trilogy. I, for one, am waiting for the sequel (it's due in August).

Ken Liu also says in the translator's note that Chinese literary traditions are a little different compared to those written in English so that's something to bear in mind. It took me a little while to get into the book, but I ended up enjoying quite a lot.

Teanka wrote: "They shouldn't. It's an excellent hard sci fi book with lots of interesting concepts."

Great, thanks. My feet are already starting to feel a little warmer now.

Edwin wrote: "Hmm, interesting commentaries. I was excited about this book, but now.............well, maybe my feet are starting to get just a little cooler."

I don't necessarily think the seeming flatness of the characters is a weakness, it just takes a little getting used to... each character still seems very real and relatable to me.

I forgot to mention that I am enjoying the translator's occasional short footnotes throughout the story, they have been very helpful.

I just picked up a copy today. I'm looking forward to reading it but I haven't had the best luck with the last few books in translation I read. I'll be starting it after dinner tonight hopefully.

I'm not normally one for hard sci-fi, and this took me a bit to warm up to, but I enjoyed it a lot and am looking forward to the next one.

I just picked up a copy of this today as well. Will be reading it over the next couple weeks .. I'm a bit worried about some of the "flat character" comments as character depth is usually what draws me most. Still, there are exceptions. I'm going in with an open mind.

I agree with Rob. I don't normally like hard Sci-Fi but the science concepts in this book are interesting to me despite the characters. I also liked the cultural revolution parts but felt it a bit disjointed from the next section.

I didn't really know what to expect with this book but I'm at 25% and really liking it. I do agree with the comments about the characters being a bit "flat" but I think it works for the story. I thought the time lapse from part 1 to part 2 was abrupt and I haven't really figured out how they go together but I'm sure I just need to read on!

Janice George (JG) wrote: "I don't necessarily think the seeming flatness of the characters is a weakness, it just takes a little getting used to..."

I agree. The characterizations feel similar to some other writers I've read (Asimov for one, some of Stanislaw Lem and Robert Sheckley as well). Here it may be a factor of the difference between Chinese and western literary tradition, but it could just as easily be a function of what's important to the story.

This isn't a character driven story at its heart. It focuses on more are the ideas and concepts. Which is also where we find flatter characters in western writing. The tale covers a fairly wide range of time, so the main character fluctuates a bit depending on the time frame. That makes in-depth character creation less important.

I wouldn't let this issue deter you as a reader, especially if you're into idea-driven stories or are interested in just reading something out of the ordinary.

I am enjoying this a lot! I am still not knowing what to expect, but very intrigued

Teanka wrote: "I read this book about three months ago. I agree about the characters, to me they appeared bland and lacking development. But the idea behind the book was very interesting and well executed. I also..."

Pretty much exactly sums up my read, also about 3 months ago. Interesting story, compelling characters in that prologue, but flat main characters from chapter 2 onward.

Only managed the first chapter so far due to the joy of shift working, but a compelling start. Looking forward to my weekend off to give it some attention with a glass or two red.

The situations and ideas are so compelling! To me it it as atleast as good as late Asimov.

After I finished this a few months ago, I remember looking up info about Wang Miao and finding that his name translated to something that means he's a stand-in for humanity. He's bland on purpose.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find my source. Hopefully someone better at google than I am can find what I'm talking about.

I'm an electrical engineer by trade, so I enjoy all the technical references in the book, but I'm curious if anybody else sees it differently?

Bruce wrote: "I'm an electrical engineer by trade, so I enjoy all the technical references in the book, but I'm curious if anybody else sees it differently?"

I'm an electrical engineer too Bruce, but as I'm only at chapter 2 so far, I probably haven't gotten yet to the references you're talking about. So far it's been mostly physics.

Hardly started, but at this point I'm mainly interested in the Chinese historical references and perspective. That seems to be the main gist of the story so far.

Have to say .. I'm looking forward to the point where the science fiction part starts!

Yeah, the book has some Chinese historical references, but there are definitely some hard Sci-Fi aspects also.

The cultural revolution aspect has been described by the author perfectly, and the way Yi compares cutting of traditional trees with the fall of her father was really compelling read.

I think the flat characters work really well within the framework of the story. I think they are supposed to be disconnected from humanity in a way so they can get their heads around the situations they find themselves in.

Rushi, I like that way of looking at it. I could certainly see that.

I did not much care for the beginning of the book, the middle was a little better but by the end I am finally enjoying it for what it is.

I'm at 30% and am enjoying it thoroughly.

It is true that the book reads strangely and this is definitley the result of translation from the chinese. However like others I also actually enjoy this strangeness.

No one has mentioned the pace (sorry if I missed it), I'm finding it flies by.

It's the only book that has made me think: Einstein's first postualte, the Principle of Relativity, yeah probably wrong. How the hell do I know what's goin' on 20 billion light years away?

Micah wrote: "This isn't a character driven story at its heart. It focuses on more are the ideas and concepts. Which is also where we find flatter characters in western writing. The tale covers a fairly wide range of time, so the main character fluctuates a bit depending on the time frame. That makes in-depth character creation less important."

It's this, there are plently of Chinese works with good strong deep characters, but the characters in this book are secondary to the idea and plot. The writing itself...I wouldn't describe as flat, I always felt like Chinese works read a bit more like a theater play, and this one does as well.

I'm also finding that in large part Wang Miao is the neutral observer through whom we are allowed into this world. Wang Miao is the in-book stand in for the reader. In which case, a flat characterization is necessary because Wang Miao represents all of us.

I love it. It's fun and lively. Got into it from the first page!

Me too. It's my vote for the Hugo Award for Best Novel.

I'm at 60% and think it's great. I can't wait to see how it's going to play out.

Mad wrote: "Me too. It's my vote for the Hugo Award for Best Novel."

I would vote for it too! I love everything about it - translation, characters, varied writing techniques. It recalls the Golden Age of Science Fiction: high-spirited, unselfconscious, the art of the possible: Wow. Love it!
Happy reader! :)

And it is exactly that: The Chinese Golden Age of Science Fiction. I'll be reading the next one.

Flash Beagle wrote, "It recalls the Golden Age of Science Fiction: high-spirited, unselfconscious, the art of the possible.

Yes, it does seem to harken back to all that was originally great about reading Sci-Fi.

I am now about ¼ of the way in. I am enjoying it, but…...

Maybe something has been lost in translation or maybe I am running into some cultural ways of literary expression that I am not used to, but I am finding the flow, dialogue and character interactions to be choppy, confusing and a bit stilted.

Clearly however, the story and mystery of it all are quite engaging and I look forward to seeing what comes next.

Edwin wrote: "...I am finding the flow, dialogue and character interactions to be choppy, confusing and a bit stilted..."

That's why I was wondering about the translation. I don't find it confusing, but choppy and a bit stilted ring true to my experience.

I'm about 3/4 of the way through (hard to find reading time when I'm still editing a book), but I did give this my #2 rank in the Hugo.

Micah wrote: "Edwin wrote: "...I am finding the flow, dialogue and character interactions to be choppy, confusing and a bit stilted..."

That's why I was wondering about the translation. I don't find it confusin..."

Just a thought but it could be the writing style. If a Chinese reader read a translation of Neal Stephenson (I'm reading him also so he's front of mind), and then read a translation of Nightfall by Dave Goodis they might think something was weird about the Goodis translation but it would just be the different writing styles, with the translator staying true to each one.

It is definitely different, I agree. I like it though. When I read a translation, I want nuance, word choice, structure to tell me it's a translation, while at the same time being smooth.

I would like to read The Grace of Kings by Ken Liu. I understand there are airships in it and would be interested in airships factored in from a new perspective.

I don't know that much about Chinese, but I'm pretty sure it's a seriously different language from English. It's not like translating from Spanish or French or something like that. I thinking it's got to have some kind of major affect on the flow of the book even with the best of translators.

The book reads well. As already said the characters are flat, but that mirrors the philosophy of Three Body Problem game.
Just as the book seemed to be getting humdrum a couple of interesting plot developments and I'm keen to read on.
Pleased I tried this. A change from the norm with some interesting historical references.

i am really enjoying where it is going as well. it is probably going to get my Hugo vote :)

I am really liking the book so far, I am 43% done with the book and enjoying reading how many scientific concepts author is exploring in this book.

Edwin wrote: "I am now about ¼ of the way in. I am enjoying it, but…...

Maybe something has been lost in translation or maybe I am running into some cultural ways of literary expression that I am not used to,..."

I'm about 1/3 done, and I'm feeling like Edwin and Micah - not confusing at all but choppy and stilted, for me stilted in that the characters don't feel fully flesh & blood. I appreciate what people say about flat characters being a deliberate choice, but either way, the flat characters are making it hard to be immersed in the story ... that and the fact that the writing (at least in translation) is a bit dry for me - not very lush.

I like it ok, but I'm not loving it. I'm hoping maybe as the story picks up steam, I'll notice less what I'm missing and start to be carried away by the plot alone. A lot of books do work that way for me.

I am really loving this book just read on Wikipedia what is actually a three body problem.

The author has woven it nicely in the story my only complaint is I am finding it hard to distinguish all these Chinese names from each other.

The names are a challenge!

Also I understand about the characters seeming flat/wooden.

My perspective though: certain scenes--the landscape, artificiality, exaggeration, dialog--were like an existential play. Within an SF setting. And then applying this...historical. A fantastic cross-genre amalgam with distinct transitions.

Flash Beagle, I do have to say I'm finding the historical aspects interesting! I feel like the story is starting to engage me more plot wise as well (just finished the part 1/3 of the way in where (view spoiler)[he figures out what's going on with the countdown (hide spoiler)]).