Madam, want to talk about author Mary Stewart? discussion

Discuss here.

I started this book last night, and have read the first five chapters, so will kick off the discussion here.

One of the things I've always enjoyed about Stewart's books is her ability to set the scene and invoke a sense of place and time, and I think she does this marvellously in this book.

When Lucy first goes for her swim and meets the dolphin, there is an excellent passage which I will quote here:

"Here was I, Lucy Waring, being asked into the water for a game. The dolphin couldn't have made it clearer if he'd been carrying a placard on that lovely moon's horn fin of his. He rocked himself, watching me, then half-turned, rolled, and came up again, nearer still ..."

Beautifully evocative, you can feel the dolphin's playfullness, only to have the peace shattered a moment later when Lucy hears the bullet go by her and realises that someone is shooting at the dolphin. Her anger at that point and her charge up to the terrace to confront Max Gale, is priceless.

At the moment we've met all the main characters and are starting to get to know them, the scene is set for the mystery to unfold, Sir Julian Gale, ex-Shakespearan actor, his son Max, film score writer, Lucy herself, Phyllida and Godfrey Manning. And then right at the end of Chapter 5, a Greek Lucy hadn't seen before, makes his way up superitiously to the Casa.

Really looking forward to the rest of the book, it has been so many years since I read this, that it's almost like reading it afresh, yet at the same time I'm remembering bits of it as I read.

I had just finished reading this portion and came to GR and saw your comment, Carol!

(view spoiler)[So agree. Stewart captures everything about the moment with such a vivid sense of word play. Even though I knew it was a dolphin and not a shark, the moments leading up to its revealing itself were tense and had me thinking of the opening scene of JAWS - lol!

I liked this line, too: The water parted, and poured off its sides like liquid glass.

The opening chapter with the banter between the two sisters is great. All those references to The Tempest, and the descriptions of Corfu - sigh...I wish I was sunning myself along with them. (hide spoiler)]

And finally, a little tid-bit of trivial information: For fans of author Madeleine Brent's Moonraker's Bride, both books feature heroines named Lucy Waring. (BTW, I highly recommend this book as well)
:)

Hannah, agree with your recommendation of Moonraker's Bride - the name had passed me by, but you're right, both heroine's called Lucy Waring :-)

Will read more This Rough Magic tonight :-)

Finished up chapter two, and not a cigarette in sight...yet.
:O

Just finished two chapters and really enjoyed the dolphin stuff. How magical was that!

Hannah - unfortunately, I didn't really enjoy (view spoiler)[all the sisterly banter and the constant references to Prospero, names for people, etc. (hide spoiler)] as you did. I'm glad it wasn't too long.

Living in te UK, where ordinary people go to the Greek Islands for holidays as a matter of course these days, it's amusing to me that she felt the need to explain what and where Corfu was. Back then it probably was only visited by rich people and would have been very exotic.

In the recorded interview that someone posted on another thread, Mary said there was a little bit of snob value in quoting literature and expecting the reader to understand the references. She certainly does that here with her Tempest! And if I remember correctly, there are a lot of other Shakespeare references throughout the book.

Anne - its funny you said that. I was just thinking that much of the time her references go right over my head. They certainly did in some of her other books.

Half way into chapter three and as a first time MS reader, I must say she sets up a story well. Love her descriptions.

Hannah- not a cigarette in sight...but the pregnant Phyllida is having a scotch. I guess that is not unusual for the time?

Oh, and thanks for having me at this party:)

Anne wrote: "Living in te UK, where ordinary people go to the Greek Islands for holidays as a matter of course these days, it's amusing to me that she felt the need to explain what and where Corfu was..."

Interesting insight, Anne. I think as an American I tend to forget how much simpler it must be for Europeans to travel pretty much anywhere in greater Europe with relative ease. A trip to Corfu, in 1960 or 2013, would still be a pretty big undertaking for your average Yank! :)

Susan wrote: "Anne - its funny you said that. I was just thinking that much of the time her references go right over my head. They certainly did in some of her other books."

Same here. But I like it, too. She doesn't dumb it down, which I find in too much modern fiction. I like to be educated when I read, even when it's lighter fare.

Diane Lynn wrote: "Half way into chapter three and as a first time MS reader, I must say she sets up a story well. Love her descriptions.

Hannah- not a cigarette in sight...but the pregnant Phyllida is having a scot..."

Hey Diane Lynn - good to see you popping in. On our January read of Madam, Will You Talk? (written in the 1950's), it got to be funny how often the characters were lighting up.

Anne wrote: "Living in te UK, where ordinary people go to the Greek Islands for holidays as a matter of course these days, it's amusing to me that she felt the need to explain what and where Corfu was...."

Have to agree with this, it's easy to forget that in the early 60s foreign travel was an expensive and glamourous luxury, outside the means of most.
Interesting also to see the social changes since the 1950s (although I wasn't in the group read I also read MWYT fairly recently).
Less smoking though still plenty of drinking, and just a hint of feminism coming through.
Like others I love the scene setting, enjoy the first few expertly placed ripples of danger. And I like the Shakespeare chat; for me it adds depth.
I always forget though, how much Gothic/Suspense heroines tend to bug me. If they didn't jump to totally unsupported conclusions there sometimes wouldn't be much left of the plot. So I suppose it has to happen. But still...

It seems like a lot of fiction writers from that period used quotes and allusions to other works, I've always thought that maybe their education encompassed more of the "classics, plays and poetry than ours does.
I love her imagery. And she manages to create suspense just by the way she uses the language
Plus I do enjoy getting away from the action on the first page writing of today, and just be able to get immersed in the scene setting , which she does so well.

Catie wrote: "I always forget though, how much Gothic/Suspense heroines tend to bug me. If they didn't jump to totally unsupported conclusions there sometimes wouldn't be much left of the plot. So I suppose it has to happen. But still..."

They do tend to jump to early (and unsupported) conclusions :)

I don't mind that attitude as much as I mind idiotic heroines who do incredibly stupid things.

example:
"Hmm, there's a madman running around the castle killing young women with a hatchet. I've just received a mysterious note telling me to come alone to the north tower at the stroke of midnight. Guess I'd better go immediately - surely I'll be ok, I have my trusty walking stick with me..."

Hannah wrote: "I'll be ok, I have my trusty walking stick with me. ..."

Hahaha!
Yep. They're a pain too.

A quick - and probably silly - question: what is a revolving bookcase? There is reference to one in chapter 5. All I can picture is one of those round book racks that turn around, from a store. That doesn't seem right, especially for a room in a house.

Just finished the first 5 chapters. Mary Stewart always does a wonderful job at setting the scene, but I have to say that the whole Tempest theory set out by Sir julian was a bit too much for me. I'm not familiar with the play, so I sort of glazed over that part. I haven't warmed up to this one as quickly as I did to Madam, or Brother Michael (my other 2 Stewart reads). I do like Lucy Waring, another of Stewart's emancipated, smart heroines.

Susan wrote: "what is a revolving bookcase?..."

I think there's basically two types, one usually quite small like a coffee table, with books on four sides a bit like the book racks you mention, the other larger, very expensive, built into a wall with books on two sides, which can be turned round. If you google images for revolving bookcase you can see examples of both kinds.

Also want to say what a splendid name 'Nitwit' is for a cat. Maybe one day, if I live long enough, I can steal that.

I just finished chapter four. Definitely enjoying the scenery (MS is tops as always), but the references to the Tempest go right over my head. I'm guessing we meet the cat in chapter 5? I love the name nitwit as well, and like Catie might have to save that for a future kitty.

Hah. I was just looking at the different covers this one has. Glad I don't have this one:

Me too, that's an awful cover!

Mine is an old Coronet edition, published in 1964 my edition 1979 :-) Not sure how to copy the book cover in here, but it is a lot more understated.

Yes, Nitwit appears in Chapter 5. Great name for a cat :-)

Misfit wrote: "Hah. I was just looking at the different covers this one has. Glad I don't have this one:

"

Oh dear, that's dreadful!

Wow, great example of, "Don't judge a book by it's cover!"

Tempest references over my head as well. Does anyone know what that adds to the story?

I have the dolphin jumping with the villa on the cliffs behind on my cover.

Diane Lynn wrote: "Wow, great example of, "Don't judge a book by it's cover!"

Tempest references over my head as well. Does anyone know what that adds to the story?

I have the dolphin jumping with the villa on the ..."

I've learned over the years, and sometimes the best books are inside the cheesiest looking covers. I think I have the same one, although the library sticker is right smack dab over the castle Grrrr.

Another vote for Nitwit as a cute kitteh name - especially one as beautiful as this one sounds. Stewart was a cat and dog lover, and that love always comes through in her books. She usually manages to place one or the other (or both) in her books. And in TRM, we get the added bonus of the dolphin.

Ugghh, that cover screams 1980's!
My copy is one of a trilogy
My mother wrote her name and "1964" in the flyleaf. Wonder if she was reading it after she put my infant self down for a nap? It's nice to think so :)

I'm really enjoying the references to The Tempest. I like how the beginning chapter quotation matches to some degree what's happening in the plot - kind of a "heads up" to the reader. I recently watched the movie version with Helen Mirren playing a female version of Prospero - very beautiful film. I think Shakespeare is much easier to follow visually then verbally - that's why his plays were such a success from the 1600's-today.

Hannah, I used to own that edition. Makes me wonder if I ever read This Rough Magic? Nothing sounds familiar at all.

Misfit wrote: "Hannah, I used to own that edition. Makes me wonder if I ever read This Rough Magic? Nothing sounds familiar at all."

Did you read The Ivy Tree and Wildfire at Midnight out of it? Surely if you read those two, you read this one as well.

Nope, I got Wildfire from the library a couple years ago. I have no recollection of The Ivy Tree - but I do recognize that cover and know I owned it once upon a time. I used to be in the Doubleday book club thingy when I was a youngin'. Been a few years.

Yes, the Tempest stuff went right over my head as well.

Have to say, I'm not feeling the love for this book. If anything, I'd call it uneven - some parts are really interesting and the descriptions lovely, other parts have my eyes glazing over.

Susan wrote: "Have to say, I'm not feeling the love for this book. If anything, I'd call it uneven - some parts are really interesting and the description..."

Aww, sorry you're not feeling it Susan. Jeannette said something similar. It happens to all of us in group reads.

For me, it's just a wonderful as I remember it from long ago.

Here is your hero, Max Gale: (hee hee)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0301178/

NOOOO! :P

I like Willowfaerie's idea of assigning James Mason to her Stewart heros instead!

Hannah wrote: "NOOOO! :P

I like Willowfaerie's idea of assigning James Mason to her Stewart heros instead!"

Or, for a contemporary, how about Richard Armitage?? I think he would be super!

Hear that, Masterpiece Theatre??

I like the references to The Tempest. I assume that there'll be some more signficant connection to the play than just scene-setting, given that the name of the novel is a quote from the play. At the end of the play, Prospero says that he will give up his magical powers - his rough magic. As The Tempest is probably the last play Shakespeare wrote on his own, some critics think that Propero giving up his magical powers is Shakespeare saying that he's giving up writing for the theatre. I wonder whether Sir Julian (who seems to be the Prospero figure) may be more significant to the resolution of the plot than he appears to be at present. Also, as the play involves the use of magic, will there be anything of the supernatural in the novel? And I also wonder whether there's going to be a big storm at some point!

This is only the second Mary Stewart that I've read and I think I can detect a formula. I assume that (view spoiler)[Max Gale (hide spoiler)] will be the hero and (view spoiler)[ Godfrey Manning (hide spoiler)] will prove to be a villain. A formula can be okay, but I hope this is not too predictable.

The Corfu setting is great. I've got to get myself there one of these days!

It seems that in a lot of romantic suspense there is a triangle of heroine, love interest, and potential villain. Sicne it's one of my favorite kind of reads, I decided a long time ago to accept this and just go along for the ride. And for me Stewart is one of the best at exciting and beautiful storytelling. I've read all her romantic suspense , sometimes more than once, and a couple of the Arthurian novels, though I don't like them as well. I always wonder how they come up with all those quotes at the beginning of titles.

Susan wrote: "Yes, the Tempest stuff went right over my head as well.

Have to say, I'm not feeling the love for this book. If anything, I'd call it uneven - some parts are really interesting and the description lovely, other parts have my eyes glazing over.
..."

I'm feeling the same way,and I've read through chapter 6. Too many characters, no clear hero or villain, although I am leaning towards Kim's view. Too much has happened in the story, but I also feel that nothing has happened. Hoping to get sucked in soon.

Kim wrote: "I like the references to The Tempest. I assume that there'll be some more signficant connection to the play than just scene-setting, given that the name of the novel is a quote from the play. At th..."

I think I am going to read the Cliff Notes summary of The Tempest today, just to get some background. I don't mind missing a few references, but I hate missing all of them.

Jeannette - if you find anything relevant to the references, will you post? I'm too lazy to read anything about the Tempest, aside from using my very meager knowledge about that play, which doesn't help!

For anyone who's interested in reading about "The Tempest" without actually reading the play, this Wikipedia article is pretty comprehensive. I meant to say earlier that I'm not only expecting a storm, but also some sort of mistaken identity theme, in line with Prospero's brother Antonio being an usurper.

Susan wrote: "Jeannette - if you find anything relevant to the references, will you post? I'm too lazy to read anything about the Tempest, aside from using my very meager knowledge about that play, which doesn't..."

I looked at sparknotes, and the first thing they claim is that the play was based on a storm in the Caribbean, rather than the Mediterranean. I'll have to check out Kim's link, too.

I find it hard to believe that Shakespeare knew a lot about the Caribbean. Whether or not it was Corfu, I think it's more likely to have been the Mediterranean.

Here's the wiki reference:

"There is no obvious single source for the plot of The Tempest, but researchers have seen parallels in Erasmus's Naufragium, Peter Martyr's De orbe novo, and an eyewitness report by William Strachey of the real-life shipwreck of the Sea Venture on the islands of Bermuda."

I'm sure The Tempest was set in the Mediterranean, as the main characters are Italian, and had been visiting North Africa. I was surprised to see the reference to a storm in the Caribbean as being a possible source of inspiration for the play. The Sea Venture went down in 1609, and The Tempest was written in 1610.

Susan wrote: "Here is your hero, Max Gale: (hee hee)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0301178/"

LOL I was wondering where I heard the name Max Gale before. I kept thinking, he's an actor isn't he?

Hannah wrote: "NOOOO! :P

I like Willowfaerie's idea of assigning James Mason to her Stewart heros instead!"

LOL I'm definitely trying to think of up a cast for this one. It's kind of tricky, because I feel I need to use sixties actors. I've already got it in my head though the charming Julian Gale is Sir Alec Guinness. :D

As always, I love how Mary Stewart never tells you what to think of her characters. She just lets them talk, so the reader gets to know them just like the heroine does. So many books today have the narrator telling you exactly what kind of person each of the characters is. It gets kind of tiresome.

And of course, I love how Stewart makes me feel like I'm on vacation on the lovely island of Corfu. She’s got an eye for detail that just makes the place come alive.

I have to admit though, this book is kind of slow. Here I am on page eighty and nothing has really happened, except an outside character (that the heroine didn’t even meet) has possibly drowned. All this talk of the Tempest is kind of interesting, but I’m starting to get bored. I want some action, damn it. Am I too impatient? I am, aren’t I? I’ve read in reviews that the book takes off about midway through, so I will definitely keep going.

Willowfaerie wrote: "As always, I love how Mary Stewart never tells you what to think of her characters. She just lets them talk, so the reader gets to know them just like the heroine does. So many books today have t..."

Maybe just a wee bit impatient ;) But you don't really mind the slow start because of Stewart's eloquent prose, correct? Enjoy your "vacation" on Corfu. I know I was ready to pack my bags.

Willowfaerie wrote: "As always, I love how Mary Stewart never tells you what to think of her characters. She just lets them talk, so the reader gets to know them just like the heroine does. So many books today have t..."

That's a very good observation. It kept me guessing for a long while about who the real bad guy is, and why.

As for the pace, I felt like you do, that not a lot happens for a while. I could have skipped some of the Tempest talk, too. But, as Diane says, enjoy the scenery!

...I want some action, damn it.

haha - if you can stick with it until chapter 18. You'll get your action Willowfaerie!
:D