Goodreads Librarians Group discussion

What's the policy on "Lending Enabled" in the Edition field for Kindles? My guess is that it's a no-no, but thought I'd check before deleting....

I think it's buried on some of those long ebook file download types discussions along with DRM-free/brand/type/licenses, lendme and kindle loan enabled.. Group search not working for me; but, I have in my notes that those things did not go in edition field or book synopsis.

I think more recently Rivka also said that if a file download type such as pdf was for some "exception" reason needed in edition field (for example, publisher did get three unique isbns for pdf, epub and epub-2 editions) that it was probably a good idea to add a librarian note so that it would not keep getting edited by librarians seeing an "error". Did not say had to add librarian note.

Pretty much all the digital things getting any special wording = unique ids like bnid 294### or kindle asin stuff.

None of the lend me options, copy protections brands or restrictions (DRM stuff), or anything else belonged on book info as changes too much according to devices and apps used to read.

Specifically for the kindle lending enabled, depending on publisher, that can depend on kindle versions (some publishers require you to connect physical device to transfer directly by usb rather than amazon wispersync or wifi, some will transfer wifi but not by amazon wispersync). Then publishers and authors change the kindle edition options.

Can't imagine trying to track. Or where we would get that information as pretty much comes from amazon site (lending groups here on goodreads seem to have a strange idea of what constitutes lending enabled). Not sure ther's an acceptable data source other than member downloads/comments. The big six publishers mostly have a blanket will/won't policy so their books don't need info added to edition field. The indie kindle ebooks, well, I think we kniw how often those amazon product pages get updated (frequently lending enabled during free or other promotions and then change back; although, in general, in the interests of spreading the word the indies are more likely to be lending enabled).

Plus, anyone using kindle lending isn't going to do without going thru the amazon site so not sure why goodreads would want to track a piece of non-static data only in amazon site.

I realize why the groups for kindle and nook lending would want (but, some of them have really odd file sharing of books amazon and Barnes and Noble swear are not loanable legally).

Some busy little bees have been adding DRM info in book descriptions and edition fields.

I know for sure that was discussed and not allowed.

Personally, there's a finite amount of print vs. ebook information needed in edition fields, book synopsis, etc. The book is the book, saying ebook with isbn/bnid/asin/kobo id numbers clarifies the edition. Anyone with the ebook or going to purchase/download the ebook legitimately will be going out to booksellers, publisher and author sites to obtain the ebook and be able to see all the extras we're not adding to edition text. The up to date product page will track all that stuff better than the goodreads database. And avoid the arguments on whether it's legal to strip DRM to create a lendable edition ... I even caught some torrent site urls trying to sneak into book info.

I noticed the other day that someone was adding "Nook" as an edition in a lot of ebooks (it wasn't even the case that they were "294" books). I think I sent an email to contact about it but I haven't seen any changes (there are so many of them!)

Maybe It's blinders (they use nook books or bn site and see nothing else) or someone invalidly using Barnes and Noble as a data source.

Barnes and Noble is pretty much the only place you see the non-294 ebooks called nook books or nook editions (some site's, particularly publisher sites, let you download the ebook in a file type for the nook — since nook, unlike kindle, reads the same ebook format as everyone else that's usually not a different ebook edition but rather just reassuring the customer their nook or nook app can read the ebook.)

File type/format does not equal book/ebook format or edition.

Maybe when staff return someone could pull a static list of 978 isbns with nook showing in edition or format fields so more of us could help?

(I wish they'd run a script to kill the isbn-10 info when it really is an nook edition ebook with bnid 294 in isbn13 field. Kills the purchase link.)

I know not to call out "someone" by name on a thread, but if you want to pm me a couple of the book names next week if staff don't or can't run something to automatically handle, I can follow the trail to try and help. Maybe tell me a chunk of dates or screen/page numbers in the particular librarian's edits you'd like me to do so we're not tripping over each other? See who wants to help and assign chunks of dates or,pages?

ok, doing a search "Lending Enabled" site:goodreads.com/book is finding dozens of books with "Lending Enabled" in the edition field. Looking at the logs, they were all put there by the same librarian. I've stopped clearing the edition field until Rivka (hopefully) weighs in. I just don't want to piss off another librarian without being able to say "look! GR/Rivka told me to!" ;)

LOL!!

Happy to help when you've got it OKd & organised.

Sandra wrote: "LOL!!

Happy to help when you've got it OKd & organised."

Ditto.

Sign me up, too. (Been wanting the nice long lists of repetitive things waiting for cast to come off)0; better distraction than prescription drugs)

I see no reason to have "lending enabled" listed. Especially since that can change so quickly.

This one's confusing me at http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16... with format = "Apple version" but using same isbn smashwords gives the ebook editions; don't think it is unique apple/iBooks item number.

thought maybe intended to be format=ebook and edition=iBooks (or even the really old Stanza editions if really meant apple computer version) — but not showing in the iBooks store as having dedicated id or an older Apple file format version.

I've been stubbornly experimenting with search terms trying to find something that would search for the odd punctuation things in author names - still an epic fail.

But in the process think this search

"nook edition"-"ebook" site:goodreads.com/book

so far has been returning a list of books with format set to "nook edition" instead of "ebook" with nook optionally noted in edition field if 294### bnid.

I'm done for the night; I bogged down playing with search engines trying to come up with a search string to check for isbn=978# when format or editon was saying nook.

Tomorrow I'll check in on Jennifer's lending enabled project to see where I can jump in. (probably need to do something for edition info with nook "lendme", "DRM", kindle "prime" lending library, "oop" or other things not supposed to be there.

Seems to be a lot of share-ebooks-around type of info being added lately ("at publisher's request...sold without DRM" types of statments in edition field and/or book synopsis.

[EDIT: not tomorrow, today; 3:40 am when I glanced at the clock, 'night]

Debbie, if you are collecting "nook edition" links then you might like this set.
http://www.goodreads.com/work/edition...

Four of the five editions are titled as "Nook Color Edition" but are also Kindle editions with ASINs. Cannot be both. Many of that authors other books have similar titles and the ones I've looked at seem to have been added by an import script. Perhaps some of the DRM descriptions came the same way.

Banjomike wrote: "Debbie, if you are collecting "nook edition" links then you might like this set.
http://www.goodreads.com/work/edition......"

Yeah, the DRM statements are frequently a disclaimer (or promotion) on publisher page where you can also direct purchase/download ebook. Makes sense to see when adding to your shopping cart or downloading; not in book synopsis; often gets to be outdated information as authors and publishers change which brands, types, or even if using or not using some of the DRM or other file protection stuff; nevermind rights being revoked or reassigned to accommodate. Then their product page says differently for the ebook than the goodreads data page, get into the middle of members arguing views on DRM, copyrights, piracy, stripping, etc...

Back on the lending enabled ["kindle edition"+"Lending Enabled" site:goodreads.com/book] search, I think I'll jump in page 13 - 22 frequently refreshing if that's not steppping on someone else's edits (after I get those nook device model in book titles Banjomike posted)

Actually, I'm not going to do the Harlequin Comics/Manga Banjomike linked other than clearing "nook color edition". As near as I can make out — all are supposed to be in Korean (possibly no English translations but some kindle bookcovers and editions seem to be in English), are translated from the comics/mangas previously released in Japan and later China, and I have no clue why the entries are so intent on saying for the nook (maybe that's what a member was using to read but more likely just copied iver from bn site as matches bn book description word for word) as the digital/ebooks were actually originally distributed on cell phone networks then made their way into the usual ebook formats. The asin editions are definitely kindle format, the Barnes and Noble bnid 294 had isbn10 filled in ...

I'm not familiar enough with Manga or Korean to attempt; not even comfortable adding the Korean book titles or trying to figure out who is author, illustrator or both (different editions of same book are listing roles differently for exact same author names) Is there a way to put a static list of this particular publisher's offerings on another thread in case any Korean language volunteers want to get?

(I left "Harlequin Romance Manga" in titles in case that helps search for the things even though I know its an imprint. Most sites say "Harlequin Romance Comics" and I'm sure there's a Korean translation possibly why "Yaoi Manga" in title search finds some. Searching "nook color" in title seems to find a good list)

Because these were originally distributed via cell phone networks, I think it is appropriate for these ebook/kindle/digital/nook versions to mention they have been re-sized/formatted for ereader/tablet device screens. All formats and editions should not be saying they are formatted for the nook color as was on the kindle editions. Possibly could just be a a generic note at bottom of description.

The publisher's press release is at http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releas...

What thread and what information should I post asking for someone to edit? Where or should the imprint info, formatted/sized to ereader/tablet screens, etc. go? Probably easier to go ahead and get official word on a few questions before asking for editing help...including reminder that that asin format=kindle edition, isbn/bnid 294 format=
ebook edition=can say nook but should not have anything in isbn10.

Hi Debbie,

I was wondering about the Nook Book vs the ebook thing and since you are already talking about this in this thread Is like to ask a question with regards to this.

There is a separate ISBN for the ebook edition right? And this ebook ISBN is the same across all the bookseller sites including B&N though with B&N they only the bnid? I'm asking because I came across books with separate entries for the an ebook edition with ISBN and and the one with the bnid entered on the isbn13 field (I have no idea what the is the one entered on the ISBN field though; I can only recognize the bnid) and there are some books I saw that only has the ebook edition with the bnid on the isbn13 field.

Is it correct that they have separate entries or should they be merged since they are one and the same? And in the second instance, should the entry be updated with the "correct" ISBN?

Thanks.

ebook formats with isbn 978########## are never nook editions (sold on Barnes and Noble site for the nook and readable on—but not a nook edition, just a standard ebook file readable on several thousand ereader and tablet devices and sold by a variety of booksellers—none of which are going to get listed in edition field either).

An ebook format that is a nook edition will have a bnid 294########## in the isbn13 field and should have the isbn10 field left blank (if anything in isbn10 field, purchase links will fail).

Both 294 and 978 ebooks should have "ebook" in format field.

Only the bnid one can have "ebook" in format field and "nook edition" optionally in the edition field.

It's a unique identifier issue.

Bnid=identifer, kindle asin=identifier, — otherwise all lumped in as ebook.

For rare exceptions (maybe a publisher did get unique isbn numbers for specific types of ebook file downloads), best to check here and to put a clearcut note in librarian edits so next librarian doesn't change thinking something was incorrect.

At least, that's the last I knew.

Debbie wrote: "ebook formats with isbn 978########## are never nook editions (sold on Barnes and Noble site for the nook and readable on—but not a nook edition, just a standard ebook file readable on several thou..."

Well, you might see 978- ebooks being sold by B&N as Nook ebooks; apparently they don't always get a 294- number for them. Either way, though, the format is ebook, so it doesn't really matter.

Nah...Barnes and Noble site, if you look close, makes a teensy weensy little distinction between nook book in their own "pubit" ebook flavor and nook readable ebook. I'll pull a couple of sample links for you as soon as blasted things stops telling me "server timeout"

Just got thru to grab a screenshot. Barnes and Noble and other bookseller sites cannot be used as data sources so means nothing to goodreads how they are doing their product pages.

But, if anyone is curious or is shopping for their own reads on the Barnes and Noble site, note in the screenshots at the link below where it does and does not have the pubit logo

http://d.gr-assets.com/photos/1361747...

(pubit is Barnes and Noble proprietary trademarked-and-all-that ebook format and digital rights management adaptation of file types and security software under license from Adobe Corp. et. al.)

Frequently, can find ebook isbn 978# available on book publisher's website for sale by downloading as just "ebook" as an "ebook" with a choice of file types.

That cinches it's not a nook edition (which is only sold on Barnes and Noble site) even if you can download in several file types that can be read on the nook and other devices.

rivka wrote: "I see no reason to have "lending enabled" listed. Especially since that can change so quickly."

Thanks Rivka - I'll start removing them as I find them.

Thanks again Debbie for the info. So thre is a nook edition after all- I thought the nook books are the same with the epub sold at Kobo, Sony Reader Store, etc. Now I know the epub it thing at B&N; I didn't really pay attention to those as I can't buy from the B&N site.

But it really bothers me that we put bnid on the isbn field. It's quite confusing, to be honest. If we go ahead with this may I suggest that we allow an option for a separate bnid field like we currently have for ASINs? Just for the sake of accuracy you know.

Except that other retailers also will sometimes have you-don't-have-to-have-isbn to list with us, exclusive to us, or proprietary offshoots of ebook formats that do use a 13-digit number for convenience. Hundreds (likely growing).

By that I do mean to include iBooks, kobo, and Google Play among others.

I don't think it would work well to have that many options for isbn/asin fields. Or for the formats.

Kindle edition ebooks (mobi offshoot) and nook pubit (epub offshoot) have to be read on kindle/nook devices or apps. That's a big reason for noting kindle/nook on book data page.

It is odd that only the kindle and audible asin items have their own isbn/identifier field and the kindle ebooks their own format choice in pull-down option. Big reasons for that are the sheer number of kindle kdp exclusive books, the amazon data feed we used to get listing the asin items, the number of indie authors using kindle ...

Nook-only books are less likely. Indies publishing on nook with dedicated 294 bnid in nook format are 98%+ likely to also publish on kindle and other ebook sites.

Exclusives happen (Sony Reader app came out with some exclusive to Sony for a limited time only books); but rare. Amazon kindle, on the other hand definitely gets the exclusives and with royalty incentives and their huge marketplace ... Likely to stay that way.

Goodreads certainly should not be advertising one retailer over another; but, the asin field is a matter of statistics and a matter of how likely a unique identifier and how often the asin kindle edition book is the only available source for the book (even the paperback version of a lot of kindle editions are not so much a print format as a print on demand option likely printed by amazon createspace or LSI).

If Barnes and Noble bnid starts being the unique, sole, exclusive ebook edition of a lot of books, then maybe would start needing a unique isbn/asin/identifier field. Ditto for the kobo 12### numbers, etc.

BNID follows the ISBN format and conventions and it is a type of ISBN. ASIN doesn't follow any of the conventions and is an internally assigned ID more akin to a record number than a standard number ("Amazon Standard Identification Number" I think).

Got ya. Now I know why ASINs got their own field here at GR, thanks again for the explanation. So I guess I'll just have to note that it is a Nook edition on the edition field if I come across with such entries in the future.

Emy, what do you mean the bnid is a type of ISBN?

It has same all number, 13 numbers, will work in isbn13 field like kobo and other site identifers.

Asin is shorter with alpha characters so did not work to just put into isbn13 or isbn10 fields.

A sku or item number format vs. isbn format.

Oh ok thanks!