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Pandemonium by Lauren Oliver. Be prepared for SPOILERS

Synopsis:
"So what was your name before?" I say, and she freezes, her back to me. "Before you came to the Wilds, I mean."

For a moment she stands there.

Then she turns around.

"You might as well get used to it now," she says with quite intensity.

"Everything you were, the life you had, the people you knew... dust."

She shakes her head and says, a little more firmly, "There is no before. There is only now, and what comes next."

After falling in love, Lena and Alex flee their oppressive society where love is outlawed and everyone must receive the "cure" - an operation that makes them immune to the delirium of love - but Lena alone manages to find her way to a community of resistance fighters. Although she is bereft without the boy she loves, her struggles seem to be leading her toward a new love.

Here is the reading schedule:

Date Reading start & stop sentences 
March 26th Start: beginning
 Stop: "They are the moon; we are a tide, their tide, and 
under their direction we will wipe clean all the sickness and blight 
from the world." (Pages 1 - 58)
March 27th Start: "Someone is alway sick in the Wilds."
 Stop:" I sink into the Dark (pages 59 - 117)

March 28th Start: "Miyako, who should have been one of the scouts, is instead the last one to enter the sickroom."
 Stop: "In the Wilds, I start to build, and to climb." (Pages 118 - 166)

March 29th Start: "I am awakened by a voice barking, "Tray!"
 Stop: "Time to run," I say, and together we stuble out of 
the room and, finally, into the cool mustiness of the old tunnels, into the echoes, and the shadows, and the dark. (Pages 167 - 219)

March 30th Start: "The temperature drops sharply on the way to the 
second encampment.
 Stop: "This, for us, is heaven." (Pages 220 - 289)

March 31st Start: "Heaven is hot water."
 Stop: End

For those of you who have read this book, Lauren Oliver is going to post on Twitter tomorrow the first chapter of Requiem.

I am in but not until maybe end of March. If you need to start before then, that is okay. I will have to wait though as I have already committed to several other buddy reads.

I think all the covers for the current BOMS and buddy reads are gorgeous! Can I suggest cover wars for one of them?

I'm in for this one!

yes I'm in for this one too

but agree would be best for end of march

Kristin wrote: "I have the book so whenever is good for everybody else."

Laura wrote: "I am in but not until maybe end of March. If you need to start before then, that is okay. I will have to wait though as I have already committed to several other buddy reads."

Valerie wrote: "I'm in for this one!"

Hannah wrote: "but agree would be best for end of march"

How does March 19th or 26th Sound? Which works better?

The 26th works for me too.

March 26th it is. Should we set a date for Requiem too? Maybe April 9th?

Sure, I want to read all of the books as of right now April 9th looks good.

I'm in for this one, too! Any date is good - I'm about to start Delirium and should be ready for Pandemonium by the end of the week!

Here is the reading schedule:

Date Reading start & stop sentences 
March 26th Start: beginning
 Stop: "They are the moon; we are a tide, their tide, and 
under their direction we will wipe clean all the sickness and blight 
from the world." (Pages 1 - 58)
March 27th Start: "Someone is alway sick in the Wilds."
 Stop:" I sink into the Dark (pages 59 - 117)

March 28th Start: "Miyako, who should have been one of the scouts, is instead the last one to enter the sickroom."
 Stop: "In the Wilds, I start to build, and to climb." (Pages 118 - 166)

March 29th Start: "I am awakened by a voice barking, "Tray!"
 Stop: "Time to run," I say, and together we stuble out of 
the room and, finally, into the cool mustiness of the old tunnels, into the echoes, and the shadows, and the dark. (Pages 167 - 219)

March 30th Start: "The temperature drops sharply on the way to the 
second encampment.
 Stop: "This, for us, is heaven." (Pages 220 - 289)

March 31st Start: "Heaven is hot water."
 Stop: End

This is starting tomorrow, right? I am still waiting for my book.

Crap, I need to read this one too! Ok, my moving laziness needs to stop right now. I'm going to look for this book right this second.

Yes, I think I messaged everyone it started today. I think I'm anxious to start this one. lol Oops! Sorry for confusing everyone. I'll try to put questions up first thing tomorrow. I've already read the first day's reading so maybe that's not such a bad thing?

Well I wasn't going to read this one as I thought delirium was a bit slow... But seeing you all are doing this, and I think she is a great writer, I'll go ahead and join in ;)

Awesome Karen. Working on today's questions now.

Questions and Comments from the start through "They are the moon; we are a tide, their tide, and under their direction we will wipe clean all the sickness and blight from the world." (Pages 1 - 58)

1) What do you think of the switching between now and then? Are you finding it a touch confusing or do you find it interesting?

2) Did you catch right away that Lena's name is different in the 'Now'? Her surname isn't Haloway. It's Jones?

3) What of you think of the Wilds giving people new names and wiping the slate clean, so to speak?

4) What is your first impression of The Wilds without Alex?

5) "You can build a future out of anything." I like that statement. What do you think is going on in the 'Now'?

6) What did you think of the DFA and Julian's story? He seems to be a powerful and charismatic speaker, don't you think?

1) What do you think of the switching between now and then? Are you finding it a touch confusing or do you find it interesting?
I really like it. Although I liked the premise of Delirium, I did find it was a bit slow and predicatble. I am already much more engaged with this book because I don't know where it is headed, but atleast it is going somewhere by using the 'now'and 'then'concept.

2) Did you catch right away that Lena's name is different in the 'Now'? Her surname isn't Haloway. It's Jones? ah, thanks. I did wonder why she would have the same name, as from the first book I remember Magdalena was not a common name and it seemed strange that she would keep it when going úndercover'

3) What of you think of the Wilds giving people new names and wiping the slate clean, so to speak?
I think it is necessary as you are starting anew. what surprises me about the wilds is that they don't have any ability to make their own food (crops, animals), clothes etc. they sneak it all over the border. But then perhaps people lost the ability/knowledge to be industrious? Or the 'cured' will hunt them again if they try and create a 'normal'society?

4) What is your first impression of The Wilds without Alex?
This is what I really like about Lauren Oliver. She lets you experience something through the character without too many unneccessary descriptions. So at the moment, I feel a bit dazed and confused as Lena does!

5) "You can build a future out of anything." I like that statement. What do you think is going on in the 'Now'?
I can only assume they are working on how to bring down the people controlling the concept of curing people, rather than trying to make a new society.

6) What did you think of the DFA and Julian's story? He seems to be a powerful and charismatic speaker, don't you think? Very interesting. I wonder if there is more to it. New love interest for Lena perhaps? ;)

Does anyone else wonder if Alex survived? Maybe I am delusional, but I can't help but wonder if he was taken rather than killed.
I know he had blood all over him and was surrounded and that apparently they usually shoot on sight.. but do they? There is alot of propaganda about what happens to invalids. I keep expecting at some point, maybe not even in this book, there will be a hint that he may have survived.

Just got my book! I am going to be a bit behind due to the BOM.

@Kirstin - glad I'm not the only one then! I think Lena will significantly change being in the wilds, get a new bf, and then boom! Alex returns! Drama ensues... lol

@ Kristin

It is rather an addictive read.

1) I like the switching between now and then. I like seeing the vulnerable Lena and the "new" Lena and wondering how did that transformation happen.

Me too.

2) I totally didn't catch that but it makes sense she had to change her name. But I am not sure how many Magdalena's there are either...

Yes, but it's so different then squirrel so when I read that I wondered did she get the procedure done or was she brought back into society like Alex was? Could she be part a sleeper cell or is this a more modern portion of the wild?

3) People are escaping to the Wilds to be who they are, not the people that their society wants them to be. So I find it fitting that they are able to pick new names (I really liked the name Squirrel!). But I wonder how do they know who to trust in the Wild and that it's not someone who may want to destroy them?

Good question. I wonder if she'll be put through some sort of test?

4) Alex made the Wilds seem different. I don't remember him mentioning them living underground and homesteads starving because someone crossed. I would find it very difficult to be Lena - to be in the Wilds without anyone that she knows and then the whole reason she escaped died.

Well, the portion he showed her didn't look all that modern so...I wasn't to surprised. I don't think he'd reveal the worst to her if he wanted her to come with him.

5) I liked that quote also. I am not sure what is going on in the Now other than some type of revolution. I wonder why Lena is supposed to watch the DFA though.

This part struck through my theory that it was a more modernized portion of the Wilds.

6) I still find it hard to comprehend comparing love to cancer and that love will destroy the country. Julian does seem to be a very strong character but can he really believe that having the cure even though it may kill him is worth it?

I know if I think too much about that I start shaking my head.

I was shocked that he'd take a chance at death to be cured. It made me wonder if he was sane. It says a lot about his parents if they don't attempt to stop him from having the procedure.

Karen wrote: "Does anyone else wonder if Alex survived? Maybe I am delusional, but I can't help but wonder if he was taken rather than killed.
I know he had blood all over him and was surrounded and that apparen..."

I had a hard time believing the author would kill him off at the end of the last book, but I can't see him surviving being shot like he was. If he survived what happened to him? Why didn't he find Lena?

1) Enjoying and finding the switch between now and then intriguing. It doesn't always work in a book but seems to be working for me in this one with no confusion.

2) the name change i did not notice not right away but became aware of

3) I think 'The Wilds' cleaning the slate on ones past is mainly good to protect identities and to bring a metaphorical end to the life of oppression. Can be dangerous though as some could use it to bury secrets and maybe we shall see if it only brings good or some bad in the book.

4) So far the wilds is a disappointment but this is only as we are seeing it through Lena's eyes and it just is not right without Alex to lead and advise her.

5) There seems to be factions and discontent in the 'now' plus it's frustrating to see that Lena has appeared to leave the wilds in the now as it seems all they ran for and Alexs death was for nothing.

6) The DFA is a worrying group as it only adds to the oppression and unacceptance they have. Julian may not be as perfect as he seems in that respect.

@Lisarenee - My theory is that stories the "cured" tell of people being shot on site when trying to go into the wilds are false. Because if they are so ready to kill people, why do they have the crypts? Doesn't make sense.
Lena's mum was kept alive so you have to assume it's for a reason? Perhaps with Alex it is the same and they have imprisoned him to try and garner information about the infidels. Would make more sense than just killing him? (and adds some nice complexity to the story!)

Questions and comments for Start: "Someone is alway sick in the Wilds." Stop:" I sink into the Dark (pages 59 - 117)

7)I think Raven getting Lena to work is helping her to get out of her depression. Do you think Oliver's description of what Lena's going through is pretty true to what someone who's lost a loved one goes through? Right now I'd say she's in denial especially after hearing of the mind games she plays with herself about him being alive. (PS I know some of you hope he's alive, but at this point Lena truly believes he is dead so that is what I'm referring to.)

8) I liked the description Lena gives of running. "When I'm running, there's always a split second when the pain is ripping through me and I can hardly breathe and all I see is color and blur..." While running seems to calm and center Lena, I kind of get the feeling that she's hoping she can run faster than time escape the fate that is hers or at least the one she believes is Alex's. What did you think?

9) Sounds like Julian has a temper or at least that is what I thought. What did you make of all the pictures he was looking at? Why was he so upset she saw him looking at them?

10) So now we know Raven, Tack and Lena are all three living outside of the Wilds and are living in the love hating society. What do you suppose they're up to? Are they trying to infiltrate the DFA like Kristin suspected?

11) Sounds like trouble in paradise. I wonder what Tack and Raven were arguing about?

12) Live free or die??? Is that foreshadowing? Sounds a little ominous don't you think?

13) So Blue reminds Lena of Grace. I kind of hoped Grace would start talking before Lena left. Do you think Lena will see her again?

14) What did you make of the colored bird pellets? That was kind of interesting. Do you think something like that could really work?

15) What was the deal with the umbrella? Anyone else find that a little strange?

16) I wonder why they wanted Lena to watch Julian like a hawk?

17) What a stopping point. What did you think of the whole riot and of Lena being knocked unconscious?

7)I think Raven getting Lena to work is helping her to get out of her depression. Do you think Oliver's description of what Lena's going through is pretty true to what someone who's lost a loved one goes through? Right now I'd say she's in denial especially after hearing of the mind games she plays with herself about him being alive. (PS I know some of you hope he's alive, but at this point Lena truly believes he is dead so that is what I'm referring to.) Yes, I think so. And also out of necessity as they all need to pull their weight. I understand her hanging on to the memory of Alex to push her through

8) I liked the description Lena gives of running. "When I'm running, there's always a split second when the pain is ripping through me and I can hardly breathe and all I see is color and blur..." While running seems to calm and center Lena, I kind of get the feeling that she's hoping she can run faster than time escape the fate that is hers or at least the one she believes is Alex's. What did you think? I understand this too. I think she is just running to get some peace as there is nothing to do but concentrate on breathing and getting through the pain

9) Sounds like Julian has a temper or at least that is what I thought. What did you make of all the pictures he was looking at? Why was he so upset she saw him looking at them?
Definitely interesting! It seems Julian has an interest in the 'real world'

10) So now we know Raven, Tack and Lena are all three living outside of the Wilds and are living in the love hating society. What do you suppose they're up to? Are they trying to infiltrate the DFA like Kristin suspected? Sounds that way doesn't it

11) Sounds like trouble in paradise. I wonder what Tack and Raven were arguing about? I didn't think much about this until later in the book

12) Live free or die??? Is that foreshadowing? Sounds a little ominous don't you think? Very!

13) So Blue reminds Lena of Grace. I kind of hoped Grace would start talking before Lena left. Do you think Lena will see her again? I did too. I doubt she will see her again

14) What did you make of the colored bird pellets? That was kind of interesting. Do you think something like that could really work? I loved this actually. Who knows if it is possible!

15) What was the deal with the umbrella? Anyone else find that a little strange? There is definitley a reason for this. I was kind of frustrated she didn't open it to work it out as Tack doesnt say much and wouldnt do this without a reason I thought

16) I wonder why they wanted Lena to watch Julian like a hawk?
Certainly something more too this

17) What a stopping point. What did you think of the whole riot and of Lena being knocked unconscious? Great writer - my heart was thumping the whole way.. I couldn't stop reading and I'm now at about 80%! :o

Kristin wrote: "Karen wrote: "@Kirstin - glad I'm not the only one then! I think Lena will significantly change being in the wilds, get a new bf, and then boom! Alex returns! Drama ensues... lol"

YA books are li..."

Very true. :)

Ok I couldn't stop reading yesterday and finished the book. I'm glad I read this, I enjoyed it alot more than Delirium. I will definitely read the 3rd.

Questions and Comments for Start: "Miyako, who should have been one of the scouts, is instead the last one to enter the sickroom." (Through) Stop: "In the Wilds, I start to build, and to climb." (Pages 118 - 166)

18) Are you having trouble like Karen stopping at the end of the days reading point? I know I am. Perhaps for the next book we should read at a faster pace?

19) Definitely not an easy life in the Wilds. I wonder how Raven, Tack, and Lena get from where they are to being back in society? I think they'd have a lot of people trying to desert, but I wonder if society would take them back?

20) Anyone else think it strange they locked Lena and Julian up together? It kind of reminds me of a scene in Shatter Me. I wonder how this one will pan out? I can see why they'd take Julian, but not Lena. I wonder why they didn't just leave her?

21) So, "the resistance has stepped up its game. They grew tired of waiting, of minor pranks and protest." which is is why the government is now tracking and killing invalids. The illusion that Invalids don't exist in the Wilds has been smashed and now they have to deal with them. So maybe that could be the reason Alex had painted such a different picture of the Wilds than what we are seeing. I still think it was harsh before, but now it's even more so.

22) So it sounds like Julian is worried and afraid of his procedure. Not as stoic as he first sounded giving that speech at the beginning of the book. Seemed like he and Lena may be bonding. Do you think Julian will catch the deliria?

23) Do you think Oliver did a good job at describing how harsh a life the wilds would be? We've got a pretty easy life these days, but at one time everyone hunted and lived off the land. My grandmother told me of how she lived on a farm and they needed to kill the animals in order to put meat on the table. She said it wasn't pleasant, but you had to eat.

24) Did you like the description of hate. Sounded like the description of another type of disease to me.

Let me know if we should kick the reading up a notch and read faster or if you like the pace.

18) Are you having trouble like Karen stopping at the end of the days reading point? I know I am. Perhaps for the next book we should read at a faster pace?
Sorry about that! I just couldn't tear myself away!

19) Definitely not an easy life in the Wilds. I wonder how Raven, Tack, and Lena get from where they are to being back in society? I think they'd have a lot of people trying to desert, but I wonder if society would take them back?
No, it was pretty hard going. I did wonder how they ended up back with a new identity in society. The only way you could do that is with help from sympathisers as Alex did. And then I kind of wondered if you would want to be back in society, always being on alert and watched.

20) Anyone else think it strange they locked Lena and Julian up together? It kind of reminds me of a scene in Shatter Me. I wonder how this one will pan out? I can see why they'd take Julian, but not Lena. I wonder why they didn't just leave her?
Yes! Completely understand they want a ransom for him, but it does seem weird they would keep her and not just kill her. I thought maybe that her "Aunt and Uncle" were strining them along promising a ransom payment

21) So, "the resistance has stepped up its game. They grew tired of waiting, of minor pranks and protest." which is is why the government is now tracking and killing invalids. The illusion that Invalids don't exist in the Wilds has been smashed and now they have to deal with them. So maybe that could be the reason Alex had painted such a different picture of the Wilds than what we are seeing. I still think it was harsh before, but now it's even more so.
Yes, I think you're right. I did think it seemed harsher maybe just as Alex was in a better "group", but I like you're reason better :)

22) So it sounds like Julian is worried and afraid of his procedure. Not as stoic as he first sounded giving that speech at the beginning of the book. Seemed like he and Lena may be bonding. Do you think Julian will catch the deliria?
Interesting how his character develops here. But we saw a glimpse of this when he was looking at those photos. I have to think any teenage boy locked in a room with a pretty girl is going to get some thoughts in his mind :)

23) Do you think Oliver did a good job at describing how harsh a life the wilds would be? We've got a pretty easy life these days, but at one time everyone hunted and lived off the land. My grandmother told me of how she lived on a farm and they needed to kill the animals in order to put meat on the table. She said it wasn't pleasant, but you had to eat.
Yes, I liked her descriptions. especially the cold. Being from a warm climate myself, I can't comprehend that kind of discomfort
24) Did you like the description of hate. Sounded like the description of another type of disease to me. Yes I did. I've always taken the "deliria" to be not just love, but any strong emotion. There is a fine line between love and hate.. look at what happens in a dovorce situation. All that passion turns to hate.

@Kristin -
20) I didn't even consider them being behind it because the scavengers are meant to be so different from the invalids. I assumed that Tack knew that there may be an attack and her umbrella has a flare or a note or something inside it. I kept yelling at Lena to open it up!
22) I love how you say "when" haha! I kept reading Julian as being much younger than Lena (and had to remember he wasn't), but I think that is just because he was naive to other possibilities, as she was in the first book. I'm not sure that I liked him more than Alex. Interesting that after that short time in the wilds she has taken Alex's "role" in this situation, being much more in control and knowledgeable.

Your experience sounds pretty awful! 5 days is a very long time!!
I lived in Canada for almost a year and that was the first time I had ever seen snow, or experienced any temperature less than about 10c. I much prefer the heat I have to say :)

Questions and Comments for Start: "I am awakened by a voice barking, "Tray!" through Stop: "Time to run," I say, and together we stumble out of the room and, finally, into the cool mustiness of the old tunnels, into the echoes, and the shadows, and the dark. (Pages 167 - 219)

25) Wow! Doesn't sound like Julian had a pleasant childhood. How horrible. He's afraid to be who he wants with good reason. There may be more to him then meets the eye. Sounds like the cure masks things like child abuse. Sounds like his seizures were caused by an injury caused by his father.Do you believe he truly had tumors? Could they have made that up to cover up what his father had done to him?

26) So Tack and Raven knew she'd be captured or just thought it was a possibility? I'm thinking it's the former. What about you? They said Raven or Tack, one of them, had made sure she took the book.

27) Don't you think it's odd they'd let her keep her bag and umbrella?

28) Is it just me or was the procedure used for scarring Lena so she'd look like she'd been cured pretty gruesome, unexpected, and a little mean? What were your thoughts? It was almost like an initiation, but not quite.

29) So I wondered what the mascara could be used for. must admit I've never tried to write with it. Do you suppose it smudges easily. lol

30) So what do you make of what's going on? Are the DFA and Scavengers teaming up or is something else going on? I'm so confused. Do you think that could be why Oliver did the toggling between 'Now' and 'Then' so we could feel a little like Lena?

31) What did you make of their escape? Another awful stopping point. Gah!

25) Wow! Doesn't sound like Julian had a pleasant childhood. How horrible. He's afraid to be who he wants with good reason. There may be more to him then meets the eye. Sounds like the cure masks things like child abuse. Sounds like his seizures were caused by an injury caused by his father.Do you believe he truly had tumors? Could they have made that up to cover up what his father had done to him?
It's pretty bad. I think this is what happens when people are 'cured' and no longer have empathy. You can see how child abuse would be common. I didn't think his illness was made up, but may be psychosematic?

26) So Tack and Raven knew she'd be captured or just thought it was a possibility? I'm thinking it's the former. What about you? They said Raven or Tack, one of them, had made sure she took the book.
I thought it was done just in case as it's pretty horrible to think that they set her up

27) Don't you think it's odd they'd let her keep her bag and umbrella?
Yes, it was pretty convenient! But they also gave them food and water so I guess the scavengers aren't totally heartless

28) Is it just me or was the procedure used for scarring Lena so she'd look like she'd been cured pretty gruesome, unexpected, and a little mean? What were your thoughts? It was almost like an initiation, but not quite. I didn't think there was much of a choice. They don't have the ability to 'knock her out' and anything creating a scar on that part of your head is going to hurt like hell! You're probably right that it was a bit of an initiation too... there is no turning back now

29) So I wondered what the mascara could be used for. must admit I've never tried to write with it. Do you suppose it smudges easily. lol
haha. Yes, I thought it would be a bit tough to write with, especially quickly!

30) So what do you make of what's going on? Are the DFA and Scavengers teaming up or is something else going on? I'm so confused. Do you think that could be why Oliver did the toggling between 'Now' and 'Then' so we could feel a little like Lena?
Yes, it does seem like the scavengers are part of the DFA. Or atleast hired by them, kind of like hired thugs. But then why would they kidnap Julian? Unless they're really too stupid to realise who he is??
I think the 'now' and 'then' was a good way to keep the story moving. Otherwise it may have kind of dragged a bit

31) What did you make of their escape? Another awful stopping point. Gah! My heart was definitely thumping! Now you know why I couldn't stop reading...lol

Hannah wrote: "1) Enjoying and finding the switch between now and then intriguing. It doesn't always work in a book but seems to be working for me in this one with no confusion."

Sorry I haven't been conversing as much. Things got crazy as my son had his birthday and Easter is coming.

@Hannah - I hope your still reading with us.

1) Enjoying and finding the switch between now and then intriguing. It doesn't always work in a book but seems to be working for me in this one with no confusion.

I kind of like it too, but the beginning of the first chapter made me think Alex was alive and then you find out it's a dream.

2) the name change i did not notice not right away but became aware of

I don't always remember names, but I usually remember initials--strange I know--so I was pretty sure it was different so I looked it up.

3) I think 'The Wilds' cleaning the slate on ones past is mainly good to protect identities and to bring a metaphorical end to the life of oppression. Can be dangerous though as some could use it to bury secrets and maybe we shall see if it only brings good or some bad in the book.
Very true.

4) So far the wilds is a disappointment but this is only as we are seeing it through Lena's eyes and it just is not right without Alex to lead and advise her.

I know. :(

5) There seems to be factions and discontent in the 'now' plus it's frustrating to see that Lena has appeared to leave the wilds in the now as it seems all they ran for and Alexs death was for nothing.

I know

6) The DFA is a worrying group as it only adds to the oppression and unacceptance they have. Julian may not be as perfect as he seems in that respect.

Interesting thought. :)

@Kristin
7) I've never lost anyone that I am super close to so I don't know what they experience. I thought the mind tricks of Alex but the way she tries to forget Hanna in her memories is a weird reaction.

Perhaps remembering is too painful?

8) I think Lena uses running an her escape. That's why when she is running she allows to be Alex to be there. I don't think it's her trying to outrun fate but more like letting her forget the life she lives for a bit

You could be right

9) the pictures mean something to Julian obviously but it is probably something his parents don't know. Maybe he wants to go into the Wilds and in nature to see those places. I think he was just trying to act tough.

You may be right here too. His reaction was very strange like he'd been caught doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing

10) I don't know what they are doing. I think they are trying to get info from the DFA especially if the DFA is trying to track down Wild camps.

That would make sense.

11) Are Tack & Raven a couple? I think they were arguing about how much to tell Lena about their plan. They are definitely keeping something from her

At this point I'm not sure, but they talked about a marriage certificate so I'm assuming they're posing as a couple. I suppose that could be a platonic cover up relationship, it's just it sounded like they were bickering like an old married couple. Perhaps I rea d too much into that.

12) I think it's what Lena and all of the people have already been thru.

We'll have to wait and see. I hope I'm wrong.

13) if Blue reminds Lena so much of Grace why isn't she nicer to her? It would seem like Lena would want to be around her more. I hope she sees Grace again.

That confused me too unless perhaps she feels guilty for leaving her behind? I don't know and don't understand this either.
14) It seemed a bit far-fetched to me

I wasn't sure about it either.

15) I didn't get the umbrella thing either.

I know. Something is definitely up with that. It was so strange.

16) Maybe Julian is secretly working with the Resistance?

That would be an interesting twist. I like that thought

17) That would have been scary!!! And being in those tunnels equally as frightening. Why is Julian so important to everybody?

I haven't figured it out. Perhaps because he is a figurehead for them? His story is rather compelling.

@Karen
1) I really like it. Although I liked the premise of Delirium, I did find it was a bit slow and predicatble. I am already much more engaged with this book because I don't know where it is headed, but atleast it is going somewhere by using the 'now'and 'then'concept.

I'm glad you decided to read with us

2) ah, thanks. I did wonder why she would have the same name, as from the first book I remember Magdalena was not a common name and it seemed strange that she would keep it when going úndercover'

Yep.

3) I think it is necessary as you are starting anew. what surprises me about the wilds is that they don't have any ability to make their own food (crops, animals), clothes etc. they sneak it all over the border. But then perhaps people lost the ability/knowledge to be industrious? Or the 'cured' will hunt them again if they try and create a 'normal'society?

I thought it was a nice idea, but can't imagine getting used to it. I wish they'd assigned a name to Lena.

4) This is what I really like about Lauren Oliver. She lets you experience something through the character without too many unneccessary descriptions. So at the moment, I feel a bit dazed and confused as Lena does!

Me too, but I like how it keeps you on your toes trying to figure everything out.

5) I can only assume they are working on how to bring down the people controlling the concept of curing people, rather than trying to make a new society.

Can't wait to find out what they are up to.

6) He seems to be a powerful and charismatic speaker, don't you think? Very interesting. I wonder if there is more to it. New love interest for Lena perhaps? ;)
I wondered the same thing

@Kristin
18) This book has much more intrigued than Delirium did. I am finding it hard to stop because I want to know what happens next!

I agree.

19) I don't think society would take them back since the Wilds aren't supposed to exist. Or maybe that is where some of the people from the Crypts come from. The Wilds do sound tough but I like the way Lena is struggling through each day and become stronger because of it.

I don't think so either.

20) I haven't read Shatter Me yet (it is on my list). I wonder if Tack and Raven were behind the attack somehow (I am thinking the umbrella still has significance) and that maybe the wanted Julian and Lena together so she can convince him that deliria isn't a bad thing.

That would make sense. Strange way to go about it unless they want the two to fall for each other.

21) I think you are right. I didn't think the Wilds would be very easy to live in but it sounds a lot worse and now having to worry about bombings that has to be a scary place to live.

Yes it does

22) I think he does with Lena. I think she reveals everything to him and I have to say that I like Julian a lot more than Alex so I am Team Julian when Alex shows back up :)

He shows back up????

23) I always wonder how I would have survived if I had to hunt for food and live outdoors but you do what you have to do to survive.

Very true

24) I did like it because it can be true about hate as well as love which I think is the point. I don't think deliria is just love but any emotion that could interrupt this "perfect" society that has been created.

They do seem a little Setpford-ish.Like they lack emotion after the operation.

Sorry for being so late with these.

Questions and Comments for "The temperature drops sharply on the way to the
second encampment." Through Stop: "This, for us, is heaven." (Pages 220 - 289)

26) What did you think of Raven's story? She became a Invalid to save Blue and to escape her family life. Seems like the loveless utopia the government was trying to create is not as perfect as they'd let people believe, but we already knew that.

27) Yet even more abuse in Julian's household. I was stunned by the story of his brother's death. No wonder he acts like the perfect son. He's afraid. Once again I think there are many levels to Julian. What were your thoughts about this?

28) Did they ever say how much time had gone by since Love was considered a disease? I wonder if all of the US was bombed or just the immediate area. I keep thinking it's strange that there appears to be no medicine in the wilds. Poor Blue.

29) The whole tunnel chase was kind of confusing. The rats were pretty creepy.

30) Do the then and now seem to be paralleling each other at this point? In both instances they're trying to survive but in different ways. I haven't really noticed any similarities between the two before have you? I wonder if we're getting closer to when the Then becomes the Now in the book?

31) What did you think of the people living in the tunnels? What did you think of Coin and her name? What about Rat Man's story? Rat Man's story reminded me a bit of the "It's better to have loved and lost than to have never have loved at all" philosophy. What did you think?

32) Looks like Julian and Lena are truly starting to bond. With all they've been through I can see why. They've only had each other to rely on. What do you think he was going to say?

26) What did you think of Raven's story? She became a Invalid to save Blue and to escape her family life. Seems like the loveless utopia the government was trying to create is not as perfect as they'd let people believe, but we already knew that.
Gave a new light to her I think. It would be a massive call to leave your whole life behind like that for an abandoned baby - especially at that age!

27) Yet even more abuse in Julian's household. I was stunned by the story of his brother's death. No wonder he acts like the perfect son. He's afraid. Once again I think there are many levels to Julian. What were your thoughts about this?
Very sad. It certainly explains Julian's actions and acceptance of the early cure

28) Did they ever say how much time had gone by since Love was considered a disease? I wonder if all of the US was bombed or just the immediate area. I keep thinking it's strange that there appears to be no medicine in the wilds. Poor Blue.
I'm not sure. They also don't mention if it is just the US for the rest of the world too (has the US become a closed state like North Korea?). And what caused people to agree to the cure? Alot left unanswered... I can smell a prequel! lol!
I think in the Wild, they just scavenge and don't have their own industry. Hard way to live!

29) The whole tunnel chase was kind of confusing. The rats were pretty creepy.
I found it a bit confusing too... when the rats came into it I had to re-read a little. Interesting to find yet another type of "uncured"

30) Do the then and now seem to be paralleling each other at this point? In both instances they're trying to survive but in different ways. I haven't really noticed any similarities between the two before have you? I wonder if we're getting closer to when the Then becomes the Now in the book?
Yes, I agree this seems to be the first time they converge a little

31) What did you think of the people living in the tunnels? What did you think of Coin and her name? What about Rat Man's story? Rat Man's story reminded me a bit of the "It's better to have loved and lost than to have never have loved at all" philosophy. What did you think? I liked this, it shows that there are many layers to this 'perfect' society. Interesting how they also give eachother alternative names!

32) Looks like Julian and Lena are truly starting to bond. With all they've been through I can see why. They've only had each other to rely on. What do you think he was going to say?
Agreed. People in that kind of situation are likely to bond. He says he isn't sure what he wants anymore, so he is certainly starting to question his life and beliefs. I think he wanted to explain this to Lena - that it is because of her - but she is scared of hearing this and shuts him down

I got behind as well, but due to Easter and not feeling well last nights and I just remember I didn't post last night right now.

Questions and Comments for Start: "Heaven is hot water." through Stop: End

33) So who peeked before finishing reading? I wondered if Alex was alive because I asked my daughter a question and she wouldn't answer it in regards to Alex. lol She read the book before me. What an ending spot. I so want to read the next book.

34) So this last part is all 'NOW'. Did you mind that we didn't find out how the 'THEN' became the 'NOW' at the beginning of the book? We don't know how Raven, Tack, and Lena ended up with new identities.

35) Between Alex and Julian who would you pick?

36) What do you think happened to Alex in the time period he was missing? I think they mentioned the Crypts but how long ago did he escape?

37) Wow! what did you think of what Raven and Tack did to Lena? Should they have told her what they were planning?

38) Do you feel she was more at risk then they tried to make it sound? I felt that you can't control other people or events. There is no way to guarantee someone's safety in such a situation.

39) Knowing Lena was set up do you still believe all that Coin and the Rat man said or was that part of the plan to turn Julian? Were they pawns?

40) Could you forgive Raven and Tack if you were Lena?

41) Now we know why they wanted Julian so bad. He was a symbol of everything the DFA stood for and Lena brought him down.

42) Lena's mom was the one to help her escape from the Salvage Homestead? I didn't see that one coming.

43) At the end of Delirium did you think there was any chance of Alex surviving?

44) What will you rate the book? Did you like it better than Delirium or about the same?

33) So who peeked before finishing reading? I wondered if Alex was alive because I asked my daughter a question and she wouldn't answer it in regards to Alex. lol She read the book before me. What an ending spot. I so want to read the next book.
I didn't peek at the end, but I certainly laughed out loud! Remember my earlier comment...
I think Lena will significantly change being in the wilds, get a new bf, and then boom! Alex returns! Drama ensues... lol
... although I have to admit, I thought this would happen in the next book. But I like this ending better, builds the suspense!
Although I have to say, that they don't really understand the difference between lust and love. When Lena makes Julian say the word, I get it, as they are only teenagers, but they really know nothing about eachother other than a few days in a highly tense environment. Atleast she got to know Alex properly

34) So this last part is all 'NOW'. Did you mind that we didn't find out how the 'THEN' became the 'NOW' at the beginning of the book? We don't know how Raven, Tack, and Lena ended up with new identities.
No, I think you need something to continue on in the last book. It will probably tie in nicely with how the whole rebellion started / Alex's escape etc.

35) Between Alex and Julian who would you pick?
So hard! The logical part of me says that she actually doesn't love either of them, she is just being a typical teenage girl. However, I need to suspend logic for the sake of the book, so from that front I think I personally would choose Alex because he is more sure of himself and assertive. I think she will choose Julian because they have more in common. Alex was her 'teacher', whereas Julian is a little more equal to her.
What about you Lisarenee?

36) What do you think happened to Alex in the time period he was missing? I think they mentioned the Crypts but how long ago did he escape?
Straight to the crypts and probably tortured for information. He had friends there, so I imagine he was able to use those connections to escape

37) Wow! what did you think of what Raven and Tack did to Lena? Should they have told her what they were planning? pretty crappy if you ask me. They should have told her, but I guess then there would have been no authentic feelings with Julian, and that was what they were aiming for

38) Do you feel she was more at risk then they tried to make it sound? I felt that you can't control other people or events. There is no way to guarantee someone's safety in such a situation. She was definitely more at risk. She was nearly killed a few times and if Julian hadn't killed that guy, she wouldn't have made it out

39) Knowing Lena was set up do you still believe all that Coin and the Rat man said or was that part of the plan to turn Julian? Were they pawns?
No, I beleive them. I think they were paid to help them out and thats it. They didn't seem concerned with the 'war' raging above ground

40) Could you forgive Raven and Tack if you were Lena?
Only because they came good in the end and helped save Julian

41) Now we know why they wanted Julian so bad. He was a symbol of everything the DFA stood for and Lena brought him down.
I find this another of the 'suspend belief' moments as how would they know Julian would fall for Lena? Perhaps it is just teenage boys and hormones that make it a given? lol

42) Lena's mom was the one to help her escape from the Salvage Homestead? I didn't see that one coming. me either! I actually thought it may have been Hannah at first as I was surprised she didn't make an appearance in the book. Clearly her mother knew it was Lena, but I wonder why she ran off like that?

43) At the end of Delirium did you think there was any chance of Alex surviving? Yep! Didn't make sense that they would kill him when they kept other people in the crypts

44) What will you rate the book? Did you like it better than Delirium or about the same? I liked it alot more. Moved much more quickly and I like that the story was more about what was happening in society rather than a love story (the Alex and Lena thing got a bit tiresome in Delirium!). I'm looking forward to #3

@Kristin - " I am hoping Lena kills his dad just to throw that out there"
My prediction is that Julian gets to kill him in the third book. That would be pretty good revenge!
Are you still team Julian?

I think I'm team Julian, but you're right she does know Alex better or at least she did. We'll have to wait and see who she chooses. Only 8 more days till we find out. Alex did not sound happy about what she told Julian. "Don't believe her." Does that mean he's confident enough that he knows he'll win her back or does he now hate her for falling for another guy?

Yeah I found that an interesting comment. I think he said it because he still loves her and believes she loves him (just thought he was dead). I hope the next book opens up at that same spot. I'd love to know her reaction!