Paranormal Romance & Urban Fantasy discussion

Hi everyone,

It’s me Lel,

So, I was trolling the site today, because the glorious Cali college school system makes it mandatory that 11 month workers take Weds or Thurs off, and since I work at my school, I chose Thursday. That way I catch up on Hw, gossip, and just hang about in the student center :)

So I’m an advent reader, especially when I have down time from school. This is my last quarter, and I’m a lil afraid, cuz I’m about to be shoved out into the real world hahaha, and I have to actually be an adult now lol. Not to mention pay for my own masters. But anyway, I digress.

Like I said, I was trolling through the site, and I love seeing all the book reviews. Some I pay attention to, and others sometimes just seem a bit harsh to me, especially when it comes to self-published authors. I sometimes feel like they get a bad wrap. I have read a ton of self published book that I thought were amazing lol.

Believe me, it isn't easy to write a book. I tried several times, when my bestie gave me some sound advice, “Its just not your thing,” lol. And I finally accepted that hahaha.

Anyway, my question to all my fellow fans and readers out there, is do you think, “Sometimes we go t00 far?”

What I mean by that, is yes, we have the right to our opinion, but where do we draw the line, between opinion, being mean spirited, jealousy, or just plain hate?

Is it possible for readers to differentiate between these emotions? Can we truly give an opinion, that isn't otherwise tainted by our own motives? (You can see I was soooo bored today hahaha!!)

Example; there’s this girl in my music class, we both play the cello, and the professor just adores her. I fell I am just as good as she is, however, I will admit, I don’t like her because of the fact that he does this.
If she were to ever try to be my friend, I don’t think I could do it, because my opinion is already tainted, because of my suck ass prof (so I do admit that this is a bit childish lol).
Were I to say something about her music, it would probably be tainted, and that isn't fair at all. So, when people in the class ask me what I think, I just give them a sheepish shrug, and leave it at that.

Most of you guys know, that I love a certain Indie writer on Good reads, I’m always singing her praises.

So I happened to be checking out another book something like hers, went to her book, and there before my eyes was a catfight between two members concerning her book.

Reader A made several comments, that although not very harsh, they were a bit, (how do I put this delicately, without hurting someone’s feelings) unbecoming? Maybe? Lol.

She then went on to give the author advice that she thought the author needed, berated the book in some parts, because the author didn’t follow that advice, but in the end said she really liked the book (which I kinda find to be an oxymoron?) Lol!

Anyway,
I don’t have a problem with that, people are entitled to their opinions.
However, Reader B, had an issue with what was said, and the catfight ensued between the two readers about the book. (Which personally, I thought was very inappropriate, especially on the author’s book page).

Reader A even went on to say, that if the Author didn't like it, then she should have said something to her about it, and she wasn't there to kiss the author’s boottie. That authors needed to suck it up, or get out of the business, because that’s their lot.

Well, from my understanding, the misunderstanding was between the two readers, so why should the author be brought into it? The two readers went at it for a while, until it was said, it was perfectly fine for them to agree to disagree.

So my question stands, is it possible that we readers go too far?
Moreover, sometimes, just because we can, does that mean that we should? Maybe I see things differently, because I am not a native of America. My mother is from the Ukraine, and my father is African.

This would never work in polite society, and just because one has freedom of speech, does that mean that it should not be curtailed sometimes? I grew up respecting people like Teachers, Authors and such. It doesn't mean that I kiss their booties ( if a work is terrible, no amount of praises will make it better), it just means that it is a craft that should earn maybe just a little bit of respect.

But like I said, America is vastly different from the many countries that I have been to, before my parents came here. Some of the things people do here, would equal death in some places around the world. American is an awesome place, however, it is also like the impish child, who sometimes needs a spanking.

Just wondering what you guys think?
As you can see, I was very bored at school today hahaha.

I hope I didn’t offend anyone. :)

Wow... Amazing comments! As an indie author I thank you... Seriously, it means a lot to hear a reader stand up for us. I don't like to say a lot and duck most of the time, because I am a reader that happens to now write (and I do love it).

The challenge of self publishing my novels has been the steepest learning curve of my life, and also the most rewarding.

Until I started to write I had no idea how hard putting together a novel would be, the hours it would involve. If you publish the traditional way a team of people swoop in... Editors, proofreaders, formatting experts, cover designers, and a marketing team. For us indie writers... (and if you do this as I have done) we are it! The lot!

I have had an amazing group of people who were willing to proof read my writing (mainly fans of my work) - they helped me spot things I had missed. But, none are professionals and so yes, some errors still lurk (for sure). But, I am proud of what I have achieved, and I have several paperbacks I can hold I my hand to say I created this! WOW...

So, if you are prepared to edit, edit, edit... Take some constructive criticism, and amend errors... Go for it! But first, write the book... Lol

Happy reading - might I add that I love books (did I say that already? Ha ha)
Vanessa Wester :) xx

This would never work in polite society, and just because one has freedom of speech, does that mean that it should not be curtailed sometimes? I grew up respecting people like Teachers, Authors and such. It doesn't mean that I kiss their booties ( if a work is terrible, no amount of praises will make it better), it just means that it is a craft that should earn maybe just a little bit of respect.

But like I said, America is vastly different from the many countries that I have been to, before my parents came here. Some of the things people do here, would equal death in some places around the world. American is an awesome place, however, it is also like the impish child, who sometimes needs a spanking.

I whole heartedly agree with that statement. I have lived in the US my whole life. And while I am very greatful for the freedoms that I have, I feel like I have enough class not to throw them around in others faces. I feel like we as a country say "free speech" which is GREAT, but that doesn't mean you get to be a jerk. You can still be mindful of others and get your point across.


ALSO- that's not actually what the founding fathers meant when they wrote that. Just that the government wouldn't edit the newspapers (which they still kind of do)

I think your comment about America being an impish child is a bit much. I wasn't born in the U.S. but I've spent the majority of my life here. The issue is whether or not a person will choose to be rude or disrespectful to another. That has no boundaries of sex, race or country. That's a part of human nature.

Is it appropriate for two people to have a flagrant argument on an author's profile page? No.

Can the opinions of readers be stated in an unflattering manner? Yes.

Does that mean the reviewer has no manners? Perhaps. That depends on perception. You may have been offended but maybe the author wasn't.

Personally, I hope everyone writes an honest review when they take the time to write one. How I write a review changes depending on why I'm reading the book and what I'm doing with the review. I will always be honest and I try to be tactful. Writing takes guts and time. I really respect that.

You can find errors and problems with a book and still love it. Some people can only show their love by pointing out flaws. That's not a flattering description but it happens.

I write reviews to share my thoughts on the books. I hope it helps people to decide if they may be interested in a book or not. I certainly hope that it's a boost for authors that I really admire. I want the authors I like to flourish in order to bring out more books to explore.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. All opinions on Goodreads are written or embellished with graphics. Either way, no one is making you read something you don't like. If you don't like it, stop reading it and move on. I would not choose to waste my time by reading something that I don't like.

Soo wrote: "I think your comment about America being an impish child is a bit much. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. All opinions on Goodreads are written or embellished with graphics."


Its kinda what I meant about opinions. I have mine, referring to the impish child, yet you're taking me to task because you don't like that I said that. Which is exactly what reader b did, to reader a.

It all goes back to manners, and how we deem what is proper and what isn't. I have never found a book that was riddled with as many errors as reader a said that I enjoyed, but that's just me.

As to the author, I doubt she was okay with what reader a wrote, because it was very condescending. she just wasn't allowed to say anything if she wants to stay an author.

I didn't post this thread to start an argument, I was just very curious, because like I said, I was raised differently. and I apologize if my comment upset you.

Ashley wrote: "This would never work in polite society, and just because one has freedom of speech, does that mean that it should not be curtailed sometimes? I grew up respecting people like Teachers, Authors and..."

I agree too.

@ Thread:
I think my problem with the internet, is that of its anonymity. The things that people say about others, would never be said in conversation face to face. I just feel like because there is that anonymity, people sometimes take it too far, and see it as a pass, to do things that would never do in real society.

Lol, but that's just me.

No one would ever send hate mail, or death threats to someone's house, unless they just wanted to go to jail lol, but on the internet, people do that everyday, and no one's ever held accountable.

Just my opinion, and please I hope I am not offending anyone. I was just feeling bad for the author, and wanted to know if others experience this as well when you become a fan.

I always find it amusing when someone complains about something and then does the exact same thing while complaining.

~Thena~ ♥Machar ♥ Spade ♥ Ethan ♥ Harry♥ wrote: "I always find it amusing when someone complains about something and then does the exact same thing while complaining."

I'm at a loss? what was the exact thing I did? Please inform me, so in the future I won't.

Lel wrote: "Hi everyone,

It’s me Lel,

So, I was trolling the site today, because the glorious Cali college school system makes it mandatory that 11 month workers take Weds or Thurs off, and since I work at m..."

acting like that child is why parts of the world doesn't like us. I'm not saying I am not proud to be an American, but I'm realistic and we are such a young country compared to the rest of the world, we do such stupid things sometimes(look at our government currently) and we do throw are weight around, but we are also one of the first to offer assistance in times of disaster and so many want to come here for that "American Dream".
You do have a point about people being rude, too many don't bother with manners and don't think beyond themselves (generation of "Me, me, me"). I know there are exceptions to every rule.

There is a way to say a book sucked without saying "this book sucks". Ex. - I liked the characters but felt it was a little boring for much of the book. Ex.- Some laughs, the editing was a little off which made it tough in spots to follow.

Some people are a "know it all" but don't know as much as they think, and can be rather rude about stating their opinion. I've read books that were not good, but I was able to find something good in it (unless I wasn't able to finish it (but then I would still try to be civil about it).

As other have stated, Keep writing.
Take criticism and learn from it but if it's one person telling you that your writing stinks then maybe blow it off, but if many are saying basically the same then fix the issues and grow better from it.

Lel wrote: "~Thena~ ♥Machar ♥ Spade ♥ Ethan ♥ Harry♥ wrote: "I always find it amusing when someone complains about something and then does the exact same thing while complaining."

I'm at a loss? what was the..."

Yes, people are rude in reviews sometimes. And sometimes they're simply honest and others don't like it because they want people to only ever say nice things and never say anything negative.

Stating that there are an inordinate number of spelling and grammar errors in a book is not rude. Neither is talking about issues with plot, characterization, world building, etc. Saying nasty things about the author and calling him/her names is absolutely rude and uncalled for.

Saying an entire country is like a child that needs to be spanked is a gross generalization about hundreds of millions of people and is no better.

I review books on my blog, and I also write books (which will hopefully be on bookshelves one day). So I'm coming at this from both angles.

I take a lot of books from self published authors. I've had quite a few that were SO bad I literally couldn't get through them. I wouldn't have had one nice thing to say about them, so I don't review them.

I don't think there's a reason to go on some kind of deranged rant about a book you didn't like. Just state exactly why you didn't like it in a professional manner.

I'm seeing a trend on goodreads reviews where the review addresses the actual author, for example: Guess what, Ms. Latimer, you've FAILED.

How is it fair that authors are never never supposed to reply to reviews, when they're being directly addressed, and in a LOT of cases, attacked? I've seen reviews speculate on everything from the author's supposed shallowness, to her sex life, or lack of it.

OMG... Seriously... I think I am going to go into hiding now just in case!

I have to say that I agree, if I don't like it I tend not to review. However, I had no problem slating the new JK Rowling book I am afraid... I felt like I had been conned! I paid £10 for a book that I would never, ever have bought unless it had been recommended by a bookstore I thought I could trust.

I think that when an author has so much backing, money and support they should deliver... Or am I wrong?

Funny, my sister and I were discussing this very thing this morning; manners.

Frankly, it is one of my biggest pet peaves. It costs us nothing to use manners. You can voice your opinion in a repectful and mannerly way, no matter how much you dislike what you have read.

It is unlikely the author set out to create an inferior product just to tick us off. They took many long hours to put together a book and if it missed the mark, so be it. Share your opinion, but with kindness and try to remember that they poured their heart and soul into trying to create the book. Think of how you would want some one to critique your work.

We live among a generation where manners are not valued as a whole (exceptions; not rules). Go to any public place; the grocery, the mall, etc. And besides the people who are serving the public, how often do you hear, excuse me, thank you, or even please. It is only among the older generation the use of manners is common place. Exhausting, really.

Erin wrote: "I review books on my blog, and I also write books (which will hopefully be on bookshelves one day). So I'm coming at this from both angles.

I take a lot of books from self published authors. I've ..."

Yes, there are horrible people out there who do things like this. There are also authors here who respond to honest reviews that are in no way rude by attacking the reviewer. There has even been at least one author here who went so far as to start a blog and publicly post a reviewer's personal information and begged fans to come here and attack that reviewer just because the reviewer dared to not like the book and politely said so.

Unfair or not, like it or not, the author is the one who is in the professional position so is the one who is expected to behave professionally at all times.

This has been an interesting discussion. My question is: What is the purpose of a review? Why do we leave reviews?

Is it to let other readers know what I thought of the book? Is it to let the author know what I thought of the book? Is it to let everybody know how cleverly snarky I can be? Is it any and/or all of these?

There is nothing wrong with a negative review. If I read a book and found the hero so Alpha and overbearing that it ruined the story for me, can't I say that? Someone else reading my review might decide they can't wait to read the book because they adore Alpha heroes. But if all I say is "This book sucked!" and rant and rave about how &^%(@! horrible it was, how can other readers decide if they might like it, or whether to give it a pass? I don't think rude, demeaning language is necessary.

I have seen some reviews which I thought were downright hurtful. For instance, the review seemed to be reviewing (actually, attacking) the author and not the book. That is not appropriate. It's mean and not helpful for other readers who might be trying to decide if they want to read that book.

It is just as inappropriate (or even MORE inappropriate) for the author to respond. Nothing screams immature like an author getting into an online fight with a reader. I mean, really? Who is it that produces royalties for the author? The readers! Do you really want to piss them off? Unless a reader contacts the author personally, I think the author should stand back and keep their mouth shut. Even then, the author should reply with a brief thank you.

Sorry for the long post. This is one of my pet peeves. :)

Personally, as an author, I like reviews. Not just because they increase sales, and because everyone likes to hear good things about themselves, but because it's my only real chance to hear from fans on the direction the series is headed. I end every book I write with an author's note asking readers to either leave me a comment or write me an email with their feedback. Writing is a personal process, and you don't really get any feedback from yourself. You don't get to see the reader reading the book, and don't know if they liked it or not unless they tell you. Reviews give me a chance to see what I'm doing right, or what I need to work on. They also tell me which characters need to be featured more, or storylines that people like more than others.

Reviews can have a lot of power over an author, especially in the realm of self-publishing. The market is still rather small, so if you're a fan of a self-published book, and you write the author to tell them that your favorite character is so-and-so and you want them to show up in the series more, there's a very good chance they will. If you write and say that you HATE it when a character does such-and-such, that character will probably stop doing such-and-such. Plus, I think you'll find that there's nothing an author likes more than talking about their book with someone.

I usually only review books I liked, because it gives me a chance to thank the author and tell other readers they should give the book a try. If I didn't like the book, I usually don't feel like wasting more of my time by writing a review about it. That's just me though. I really can't see publically freaking out at someone over a bad review. I covered the issue on my blog and in one of the other threads here a couple weeks ago, but I think it's totally unprofessional. I'd stop reading an author if I saw them do that.

Again... Amazing comments from everyone. I have to say that so far I have seen a few authors act "unprofessionally" - I saw them in a whole new light, and was like wow...

I think a reader is entitled to give an opinion on a story, plot line, characters and the correction of grammar... But for an author to attack a reviewer or vice versa is (in my opinion) totally unjustified.

On the topic of manners though, I have been amazed at how many friendly and amazing people are out there. Via Twitter I have made loads of fantastic friends, and have found everyone to be polite and courteous. I think manners are a fantastic tool for your life. If you choose to swear, say nasty things and generally not be friendly I don't think people will respect you. Whereas when you are kind, considerate and thoughtful you will receive nothing but praise.

We all have a choice... Either be nice or don't be! This medium is not the best at times. You hear so many stories of children getting harassed and bullied via text, or Facebook - its no different. If someone wants to hound someone for whatever reason they will. Fingers crossed, this has not happened to me.

Although, you will be shocked to hear that someone has used my identity to publish their story via Amazon... They obviously think my name might sell them books (stupid person - disappointment awaits! Ha ha) I am sorting this through Amazon now.

So, there is someone who will try anything... Do I understand them all? No way...

Happy Mothers Day to any mums out there - and lets not talk about those that upset us anymore... :) xx hugs

When I'm reviewing a book I try to be as objective about it as I can, and even when I see that what I'm saying leans more to a negative form, I always try to balance it.
What I dislike in a book, could be the the very essence for another person and vice verca.
It has to with what was ingrained to us throughout our childhood.
If you find common ground with the book's plot, ofcourse you'll feel the necessity to share that, problem being, how are you gonna do that ?
When I'm reading another person's review I immediatly can tell if i'll see it through or not.
I know what i hate and what i love and vague language or gif images just won't cut it.
It's all about respecting one's efforts of producing or creating something of their liking and I despice people with no sence of respect.
Being rude doesn't fall to the I-m- entitled-to-my-opinion pattern, and I'm sick and tired of hearing people say that justifying it under our so-called free speech pretence.
So, no, if an opinion is rude, it must never leave a person's head.

I think it's a balancing act - being honest about not liking something is one thing, being rude is another, though it can sometimes be quite a thin line between the two where books you really don't like are concerned.

I'm both an author and a fairly keen reviewer, so I've seen it from both sides. I totally respect people's right to give me a bad review and would never dream of saying anything bad back, but that doesn't make it any less upsetting when I get one.

Now I know how much it hurts, I try to phrase things more carefully in my own negative reviews, but it can be hard not to start tearing a book apart if I really don't like it. I don't like it when people vote my reviews down either, but it definitely isn't anywhere near as unpleasant as when people attack my book - after all, the review will have taken me about twenty minutes at most, the book will have dominated my life for months.

I also think there's a problem where people tend to give one stars out far too easily. For me to give a one star, there'd have to be pretty much nothing I liked about the book and a few things I actively hated. As a result, I've only ever given a handful of one star reviews. Some people seem to have a complaint with one aspect of a book and jump straight to one star.

Its kinda what I meant about opinions. I have mine, referring to the impish child, yet you're taking me to task because you don't like that I said that. Which is exactly what reader b did, to reader a.
..."

Apologies to @Soo-I get tangled up in these reply-to posts :

Corrected @Lel Referring to America as an impish child is to make a broad generalization about a large population, using a wide brush to paint all Americans with a certain characteristic. As a natural-born American, I have never posted a rude comment on Goodreads or anywhere else, so your comment was "unfair" to me. However, you have every right to excercise your free speech here and make sweeping generalizations about Americans/me if you choose. I will stand beside you and defend your right to do so. Tolerance goes all directions.

I agree that many reviews are rude/unfair/inappropriate, but it is a slippery slope when lines are drawn to determine what is acceptable and what is unacceptable. Who gets to make that call? Me? You? "Them"?

I wonder how much television has influenced us? Compare the manners on The Brady Bunch to what you see on Jersey Shore. I think those are both extremes. I bet not everyone acted so perfectly back in the 70s, and not everyone is so crude today. Back in the day, however, it wasn't as acceptable to be publically rude.

Yeah... Ha ha ha... I think when you talk to people who actively smoked, did drugs and lived an alternate life in the sixties... We all seem so tame now!

If you watch a lot of films too, they were not so "proper" either...

People are people, it's just before it would be nasty gossip, now it's posted on the web for all to see! Lol

Vanessa wrote: "OMG... Seriously... I think I am going to go into hiding now just in case!

I have to say that I agree, if I don't like it I tend not to review. However, I had no problem slating the new JK Rowling..."

I bought a Anita Blake book from B&N years ago, and when I got in the car I finally noticed that the story itself was only about 50 pages and the other 100 pages were a comic and other stuff, yet was for sale at about $15. I felt so ripped off. I should have checked it better, but I still felt ripped off.

When a book is pushed hard, you expect it to be good, and when it's not it is very disappointing.

Georgiana wrote: "I think it's a balancing act - being honest about not liking something is one thing, being rude is another, though it can sometimes be quite a thin line between the two where books you really don't..."

It does make it hard to take a review seriously when it has 1 star yet only one little issue wrong with the book was listed.

~Thena~ ♥Machar ♥ Spade ♥ Ethan ♥ Harry♥ wrote: "Lel wrote: "~Thena~ ♥Machar ♥ Spade ♥ Ethan ♥ Harry♥ wrote: "I always find it amusing when someone complains about something and then does the exact same thing while complaining."

I'm at a loss? ..."

I'm sorry you feel that way. If I offended you, I am truly sorry to you personally, however, it isn't the same as what the topic originated about.


@ Thread:

decorum, is not only polite, I feel like it should be a given. Too many people get a pass on manners, because people take it as, well that's their opinion, or people have the right to think as they do. And all of that is correct, however it does not negate something as simple as manners.

And I am not talking about plots, story lines or the like. I'm talking about common courtesy. like many of the posters have said already.

Erin wrote: "I review books on my blog, and I also write books (which will hopefully be on bookshelves one day). So I'm coming at this from both angles.

I take a lot of books from self published authors. I've ..."

Exactly, and this is what I am talking about. Where do we as readers draw the line, on reviewing a book, or attacking someone personally? I think this would never be done face to face, so why should it be allowed on the internet as well.

Could you imagine going up to an author at a book signing, and screaming in their face, "You are so fired, your book sucked?" Lol, they'd probably wallop you one, before they realized it.

Vanessa wrote: "OMG... Seriously... I think I am going to go into hiding now just in case!

I have to say that I agree, if I don't like it I tend not to review. However, I had no problem slating the new JK Rowling..."

No of course not, however I'm sure you didn't attack Mrs. R lol, (well at least i hope you didn't I love her lol). Which is the point, you have the right to say what you feel about the book, heck you paid for it, I have a problem when readers attack the author personally, like i see on here often.

Shawn wrote: "Funny, my sister and I were discussing this very thing this morning; manners.

Frankly, it is one of my biggest pet peaves. It costs us nothing to use manners. You can voice your opinion in a r..."


I totally agree lol. People look at me strange, when I use the magic words as barney says, however my grand smiles, so I know I'm doing the right thing.

~Thena~ ♥Machar ♥ Spade ♥ Ethan ♥ Harry♥ wrote: "Erin wrote: "I review books on my blog, and I also write books (which will hopefully be on bookshelves one day). So I'm coming at this from both angles.

I take a lot of books from self published a..."

Hummm, I'm not so sure I agree with that. It should be an equal thing on both parts as human beings. You're giving the reader a pass, because of something that has been done to authors by the butt loads, (excuse my language), however, my point is manners regardless, on the author or the readers part.

I'm sorry that happened to the reader, however i see more of that against authors, than i do readers. Really, to have a catfight on an author's page, then inline the author with what was going on and say if she didn't like it, she could say so?

Then what would become of the author if she did?
She would then have to defend herself from just what you described, because readers would take offense because she responded.

Maddy wrote: "This has been an interesting discussion. My question is: What is the purpose of a review? Why do we leave reviews?

Is it to let other readers know what I thought of the book? Is it to let the aut..."

This is one of my pet peeves as well. Just because we as readers buy something, doesn't mean we get a license to be hurtful, mean spirited, or say well i bought it, so just shut up and hear what i have to say!

I like you, think that a review is helpful sometimes. However, i have never taken a review into account, or the author i love, i would have never started reading, because one of the first reviews she got for her first book was a 1 star, and it just grew from then.

However, the simple fact that you said authors should sit back and shut up, pretty much proves the the reason for this post, "Manners". I am not an author myself, however I have manners, and it was my entire point to this post. My grand used to say, if you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing, and i find with reviews, this works too.

Elizabeth wrote: "Personally, as an author, I like reviews. Not just because they increase sales, and because everyone likes to hear good things about themselves, but because it's my only real chance to hear from f..."

Hi, I mean readers freaking on the author. This author had the good sense to ignore the two readers tho.

Lisa264544 wrote: "Its kinda what I meant about opinions. I have mine, referring to the impish child, yet you're taking me to task because you don't like that I said that. Which is exactly what reader b did, to reade..."

Actually, I was the one who said Impish Child, not Soo. It is quite funny, how things get twisted. You took Soo to task, but it was me who said that, which kinda proves my point as well. I'm am truly sorry if my comment offended you. I'll try not to generalize in the future.

What many are missing, is the fact that i was trying to point out.

I have no problems with REVIEWS lol, good or bad about the actual work. I was speaking about attacking authors personally. Of course reviews are needed, both good and bad, however i do feel they should be constructive. equally, I believe it is never okay to attack someone personally, author or reader, which is what i was trying to point out.

Maddy wrote: "I wonder how much television has influenced us? Compare the manners on The Brady Bunch to what you see on Jersey Shore. I think those are both extremes. I bet not everyone acted so perfectly back ..."

Vanessa wrote: "Yeah... Ha ha ha... I think when you talk to people who actively smoked, did drugs and lived an alternate life in the sixties... We all seem so tame now!

If you watch a lot of films too, they wer..."


this is true, but we are neither. It isn't reviews I am speaking of per se, it's about attacking people; whether they be reader or author. I just feel no one has the right to do that, just because they brought a 5.99 kindle.

This is a terrific discussion. My day job is in PR and I spend most of my day trying to get clients reviewed (in entertainment, but not books). People take criticism all sorts of ways-but it's really hard to hear negatives. You hope that the review is constructive and honest, not mean spirited. Unfortunately, mean spirited seem to be the ones that seem to get the most eyeballs, which makes reviewers more inclined to write them (and these are the "professional" critics).

I feel like there is a lot of misdirected anger in reviews. There are absolutely times when I feel like something is just so awful, I really wasted my time and money and now I am very angry about it. But it has to be really, really bad for me to get that worked up, and it really doesn't happen that often.

As a reader, the 5-star "OMG this was the best book ever" reviews really turn me off. I am more inclined to buy a book from a smart and honest 3-star review than a 5-star rave.

I am about to release my first novel, self published because I am too damn old to spend the next 10 years dealing with rejection, and I know I am going to have to find reviewers. It's overwhelming and unnerving to know that I will get my share of, "You, Karen, have failed!" I know not everyone is going to love what I wrote. I just hope the majority of the reviews are fair and honest and constructive.

If I may, I'm curious about the perceived worth of the 5♥ rave reviews. While they can be as varied as people who write them, is the prevalence of "Squee, OMG, LOVE this Book!" reviews make other readers look down on ALL 5♥ reviews? I've written my fair share, and there are many a book I love so much I do probably gush a bit, but I try and back it up with tangible elements from the book to help explain my reasoning.

So I guess what I'm asking is, if I gush at all, or in the beginning of the review, does that make y'all, as readers checking out reviews, automatically overlook a review?

I'm just curious if it's those fan-girl automaton reviews are having a negative effect on those of us that do try to move beyond, "I love this book"

The solution for me on the review front is to change it from out of 5 to out of 10... Sometimes a 5, 7 or 9 would be better... Lol! Good luck with publishing your book... Get ready for the roller coaster ride of your life! Lol

Thanks, Vanessa. Now I am embroiled in a discussion for the day job about critics destroying careers and it's making me die a little inside.

Yes, as a reader I don't trust 5 star reviews, unless they are very specific in their reasons (and I have given 5 star reviews, and not been specific about why, so I am being really unfair about it). But mostly I want to know what it's about and what are the characters like and then I can decide from there if I think I would like it. Excerpts are very helpful, so I can decide for myself if I want to keep going.

I have an author friend who asked a question and made a comment (about grammer of all things)on a thread. Someone took umbrage and left some pretty mean comments under the book reviews for her book and here's the kicker; the book hadn't been released yet! It was petty and cruel and I wonder if it would happen face to face.

As a reader, I usually find mixed reviews more accurate than all 5 star, although as a writer, I do love those stars. I admit, however, some of my most critical reviews have been the most helpful in improving my flaws and for the most part, they have been courteous.

Lel wrote: "~Thena~ ♥Machar ♥ Spade ♥ Ethan ♥ Harry♥ wrote: "Lel wrote: "~Thena~ ♥Machar ♥ Spade ♥ Ethan ♥ Harry♥ wrote: "I always find it amusing when someone complains about something and then does the exa..."

Lel wrote: "~Thena~ ♥Machar ♥ Spade ♥ Ethan ♥ Harry♥ wrote: "Erin wrote: "I review books on my blog, and I also write books (which will hopefully be on bookshelves one day). So I'm coming at this from both an..."

Actually, you never offended me. I originally said I was amused, and I was. I don't get offended that easily. You missed my point. I don't know what you saw in the review your original post is taking about, but you say it was rude. You were complaining about readers being rude in their reviews while making a rude remark yourself. I just found it funny is all.

Lel wrote: "~Thena~ ♥Machar ♥ Spade ♥ Ethan ♥ Harry♥ wrote: "Erin wrote: "I review books on my blog, and I also write books (which will hopefully be on bookshelves one day). So I'm coming at this from both an..."

I'm not giving anyone a pass. Rudeness is unnecessary in reviews. It's wrong to attack authors. I have never done it and never would do it. My only points were that rudeness is not exclusive to readers and that people in the professional position are always held to a higher standard of behavior, whether we like it or not, whether it's fair or not. All artists have to deal with it at times, as do professionals who provide a service to the public.

Is it fair when the critic writes a harsh, scathing review of an actor's stage performance and says something nasty about the actor? Of course not. Do you really think the actor responding to defend him/herself and argue with the critic makes anything better? No, it only ends up making the actor look bad in the end no matter how unfair the review was.

Alana ~ The Book Pimp wrote: "If I may, I'm curious about the perceived worth of the 5♥ rave reviews. While they can be as varied as people who write them, is the prevalence of "Squee, OMG, LOVE this Book!" reviews make other ..."

Honestly, I think they've had that effect on me. I read very few of the five star reviews. I expect they're all going to say pretty much the same thing, sometimes with more description, sometimes with less. I usually prefer the three star reviews--and some four star and two star reviews--because they tend to be more balanced. For the most part, I tend to ignore the one star and five star reviews and pay more attention to the average rating and the middle of the road reviews.

~Thena~ ♥Machar ♥ Spade ♥ Ethan ♥ Harry♥ wrote: "Lel wrote: "~Thena~ ♥Machar ♥ Spade ♥ Ethan ♥ Harry♥ wrote: "Erin wrote: "I review books on my blog, and I also write books (which will hopefully be on bookshelves one day). So I'm coming at this ..."

Granted, however, this is a circular argument.

To me, there is no cause for rudeness. As well, might you please enlighten me to my rude comment? I wasn't aware that I was being rude in my thread.

I'm reader B, and proud of it!

I have a problem with trolls, trolling books, then leaving comments about books and authors that make no sense, glorify themselves because they think they are god when it comes to reviews, think they know it all, and they hate on people just because they can.

I would rather see a one star, where the reader felt they didn't have anything nice to say so they didn't, then some troll, (because the ones who leave comments like that are trolls), then to see someone being attacked, even if their book did suck.

And I do feel sorry for authors, because they have to shovel so much bs from people, because they bought a book, so they automatically think it is their "God Given Right" to trash someone else, because they paid 5.99 for an "ef'n" Kindle.

And no, I am not an author. Do I really sound like I wouldn't talk back to readers, hahah, yea right!

This person attacked the author, the book, but had the nerve to say she dug the book. I personally don't talk trash about something I like, but hey, I'm just weird like that.

I took up for the author, because she couldn't say what she wanted herself, and no I don't know her,and she didn't ask me to do it either. I doubt if the author even knows, but I hate "Trolls".

I was the one who had an issue with reviewer A, because she was a troll.

Wow, Sobe! hahaha. ;)

I too hate trolls, and I too like Alexandria's work, cuz I'm sure that's who you're talking about. I saw it too.

@ Thread:

I'm not an author, so I don't know that side of it, however, I run a review site. I have reads probably thousands of books, both indie and traditional, and you have the bad in both piles. And believe me, it isn't just Indie authors with Typos. I think it may be more prevalent, but it is certainly not just a one sided thing.

We just reviewed a very well known author, that many on Gr are completely smitten with, but I personally couldn't stand anything about the book.

However, because the book rubbed me the wrong way, it is my policy on my site, to never review a book that has. I give it to another reviewer, because I want our site to be professional.

I would never attack an author personally, and we at our site, try to put ourselves in the place of the author, and imagine what we could say, that would help the author to make their book even more spectacular than they believe it is.

There is a way to give an opinion, but just because its yours, and you have the "right", doesn't mean you get to shite on people just to get "your" point across.

Equally, just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean to taint the book for millions of others.

I personally, don't believe people aren't swayed by tainted reviews, and opinions of the masses, no matter what they say, or more to the point, lie to themselves.

Were this not true, then millions of teen across the world, wouldn't be twyhart fans, and potter-heads. I hated everything about Twilight, I wanted Blade to come and waste the lot of them!

This is the very reason why I banned myself from reviewing the saga for my site. I also didn't allow one of my staffers who loves the entire series to review it either. I sent it to one of my other reviewers, who never read any of the books; that way my readers get a true honest opinion.

My friend, and partner Amanda and I loooove Alexandria's books, to the point that we fight over them. I'm Latina, and to see a new Latina author in the Paranormal game, not only makes me proud to see it and be Latina myself, but I want to help Latin authors grow in the field, because there aren't enough of them.

However, Mandy and I are banned from reviewing them from the site lol, because we have a repor with the books and each other, so we pair them off with a new reviewer each time a new one comes out, so the readers get an honest review; not just us gushing about what we loved. We did the first 3 books, then banned ourselves from them. We just read then for pleasure now.

I believe this is a system that all book reviewers should ad hear to.

Can I just ask (as an author who does not go looking for reviews frequently, only when I happened to see someone asking on Twitter - have not had any yet, only sent it to a review site once) how you all feel about read to review?

Vanessa wrote: "Can I just ask (as an author who does not go looking for reviews frequently, only when I happened to see someone asking on Twitter - have not had any yet, only sent it to a review site once) how yo..."

As a reader, I have no problem with a read-to-review as long as it is disclosed. To me, those reveiws are no more biased (or likely to be biased) than anyone elses.

Maddy wrote: "I wonder how much television has influenced us? Compare the manners on The Brady Bunch to what you see on Jersey Shore. I think those are both extremes. I bet not everyone acted so perfectly back ..."

Well I think television has influenced foreigners (like me) in a bad way, the average foreigner might see an American as a self imposed egocentric kind of people, because that is what is shown on television. For example the people shown in Hardcore pawn for example, the over the top, very rude people that come through that pawn shop, might influence how people see Americans. Some people don't stop to think about that it is a show, and that the average american is a person just like them. I think people should be openminded to other cultures, and not have an opion about them before you have met them, or been there so you can experience it for yourself how the cultures differ.

I am one of those openmined people who don't let myself lead by stereotypes. I hate it, its like forgeiners think that the whole Netherlands is some kind of Amsterdam where everybody goes to the red light district and smoke weed...

This is a very interesting discussion, I was wondering about manners thought, they are not the same for everyone (I think) some people might think something is rude while others see nothing rude in them. I don't think you can draw a straight line between what would hurt a persons feeling and what doesn't because every person response to negatives differently.

I recently read a very very negative review about Twilight a book I like very much and helped me through some very bad times. But I did read the review and respected the opinion of the reviewer, allthough I didn't agree with it.

When I review something I read, which I do every time I finished a book, you will get my honest personal opinion of the book, how I felt about it when I was reading it. Sometimes I begin my review with something like: this was amazing! Becauses that is how I felt at that particular moment. I a very straight forward person, and not everybody can handle that I know, but I don't mean any harm by what I say. That would never be my intension, because I don't
want to be like the people who did mean to harm another.

I have written only one negative review so far, with a low rating, but I did explain why I didn't like it. I also pointed out the parts I did like.

As for manners, I think that you shouldn't want to intentionally hurt another person, be honest but explain yourself, and don't curse in your review.

Also things like grammar failures, you should make the author aware of that, so if it is ever revised they can change it, however I don't think a book should be rated unfairly because it has one or two grammar failures, it shows the author is human.. It happens...

Some of the things in this discussion made me think about the way I review, I am probably gonna edit some of my review for the better!

Lel wrote: "Lisa264544 wrote: "Its kinda what I meant about opinions. I have mine, referring to the impish child, yet you're taking me to task because you don't like that I said that. Which is exactly what rea..."

My apologies to @Soo for getting my reply-to's mixed up. These long threads get me turned around every time. :(