THE Group for Authors! discussion

I've just gotten an acceptance letter from Tate Publishing. After doing some research I'm thinking of waiting to hear back from other publishers.

Has anyone had any experience with Tate Publishing? Good or bad I'd like to hear it.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/misc/t...

Found this for you. Don't know anything personally.

Don't sign a contract with them. They are a vanity press with a $4,000 price tag and not a commercial publisher, and many unsatisfied authors with complaints about crappy editing among other things. There is a thread at AbsoluteWrite http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/s... about them in their Beware & Background Checks forum. They are listed as "not recommended" by Predators & Editors website too.

If you google search Tate with the word ripoff or scam afterwards you will see quite a few complaints. I'd wait til you hear back from the other publishers or agents you queried. You need to do your homework before you query. There are just too many scams and vanity presses looking for money you will never earn back.

If you decide to self-publish there is no reason to spend $4,000 to do it, and then still have to buy your own books. You can do it yourself through Amazon's createspace (hard copy)or eBooks (Amazon kindle, B&N nook, smashwords etc) for example.

Do some research first before you sign anything with any company.

Thank you everyone for your help. I have decided to wait and not sign with Tate Publishing. Hopefully I will get some more acceptance letters soon. Thanks again.

Here's another article on Tate Publishing...
Trouble at Tate.

Ted wrote: "Here's another article on Tate Publishing...
Trouble at Tate."

wow. that's very troubling. Firing 25 people for spreading rumors of layoffs is the best way to prove the rumors true.
And then he expects to sue his now unemployed employees for 7 million dollars.... wow. sounds like a peach of a guy. And they publish christian stuff? someone forgot the golden rule, methinks.

Just a general word of advice in this day and age. Even if you're contacted by Penguin or Random House, DON'T sign a contract until you have a contract lawyer look at it first. Even the big houses are ripping off authors these days, particularly new ones.

Thanks Judy, I will for sure!



Judy wrote: "Just a general word of advice in this day and age. Even if you're contacted by Penguin or Random House, DON'T sign a contract until you have a contract lawyer look at it first. Even the big houses ..."

My book was published by Tate and I could not be happier. They were there every step of the way, always answered my phone calls and questions and I loved the editing and extra details they put into the book. The cover was better than I anticipated and they have been great with marketing. I have already gotten my money back in sales. As a first time author I would not have been able to do the self-publishing thing. My next book I will use them again.Fluffy, Funny, and Fabulous: A Tale of Five Sisters

Anita wrote: "My next book I will use them again. "
that's good that you had a good experience. If they indeed, as rumored, layoff all their american workers and move base of operations to the Phillipines, will you still feel the same way? If they actually sue former employees for the millions they obviously don't have, will that affect your feelings in any way?

Anita, I'm glad you are having success. I just worry about new authors who use a vanity press to self-publish as four grand is a lot to risk, plus having to buy your own books on top of that. You are very fortunate to have made back your investment.

A commercial publisher (large or small) does not charge the author.

I did just speak with someone at Tate. These are some of the questions I had and didn't feel too easy about their answers.

1. I've spent a lot of time & effort on my book covers & image. These would go away & they would create new ones.

2. I've self published & have made okay sales to date. He told me "You won't get any other publishers to sign you on." Then he told me all my "okay" Sales were friends & family. NOTE: No they aren't. I've had good sales in the UK, Germany, Canada & Australia. I don't know anyone outside the US. I've also had good reviews from plenty of people I don't know here in the US.

3. I was talking to him about the $4k up front and was trying to say how I thought it was a shady practice for a publisher to ask for money upfront instead of taking from the first sales. He interrupted and told me he wouldn't sign any writer on that thought his company was shady.

4. He said, oh well, your from Texas. (Like that's a bad thing.) Like where I currently live really matters... Ummm. They are in Mustang OK! Who cares...

5. I told him I just submitted to several publishers and some said they won't even look at my books for 3-6 months. His offer is only good for 10 days. He told me he could extend the offer for 30 days. This was nice, but not really helpful as it won't allow me time to even consider other offers.

Anyway, my husband & I have done enough research to know that I am officially passing on their offer.

Thanks to everyone who has given me input on this matter. I hope this will help others in their search for a publisher.

Good luck!

I am sorry you had a bad experience. But it sounds like since you have published before you should be fine with self-publishing, especially if you have the cover work and layout done.

Jill, I'm glad you passed. And waiting 3-6 months for a response to a full from a publisher is pretty normal from what other authors submitting to a regular commercial publisher have said. So you're OK, just need a bit of patience. And for him to say no other publisher would sign you is just him trying to get your money.

Jill wrote: "I did just speak with someone at Tate. These are some of the questions I had and didn't feel too easy about their answers.

1. I've spent a lot of time & effort on my book covers & image. These wou..."

This is a really standard sleezy sales trick. (1) Make the person feel vulnerable and weak in some way, and then (2) Give them an unrealistic time deadline so they feel they might miss an opportunity.

Stay. Away. From ANYONE. Who does this. Ever.

Good decision, Jill. :)

I recently received an offer from Tate and I too am passing. Why in the world would you pay $4000 for things you've already done yourself!?! I am self-published and happy with the editing (which I already paid for), and cover (photo paid for). I can almost understand if you don't already have these things but if you do - why would you need those services? They either loved my book or they didn't - sounds like a scam to me!!!

I'm quickly discovering there are a lot of companies out there who are trying to market what is really just self-publishing. Do they think we're stupid?

I found a place yesterday that apparently exists just to publish your ebook. I thought that was very funny, but then I guess some people would need that service.

Jill wrote: "I've just gotten an acceptance letter from Tate Publishing. After doing some research I'm thinking of waiting to hear back from other publishers.

Has anyone had any experience with Tate Publishin..."

Congratulations, everyone gets an acceptance letter because Tate does not turn anyone down...

As to advice, they are a Vanity Publisher. They will sell you on all kinds of services. Their editing is a joke and their covers are mostly stock images slapped on. Poorly done.

But hay, you get what you pay for, and sometimes, not even that...

I just received a contract from Tate. I cannot locate anywhere in the contract where the company asks for my money. Can y'all point me toward a likely location in this 12 page document? I'm very concerned from what I've read thus far. Thank you.

Oh, I don't think they have it in their contract... My email from them stated ""

Tate Publishing invests $20,000 per year for KMG to publicize your book and you (the author) are responsible for the one-time refundable retainer of $3,990 for KMG’s ongoing services.


Mae wrote: "I just received a contract from Tate. I cannot locate anywhere in the contract where the company asks for my money. Can y'all point me toward a likely location in this 12 page document? I'm very co..."

Class action lawsuit pretty much sums it up then. I'm disappointed, but I'd be more disappointed if I was forced to pursue legal action. Wow, just wow. Thanks y'all! Those were some speedy responses that have helped me put this to rest.

I still have a contract from Tate publishing in my cabinet. There was no way I was going to give them $4000, and I spoke with a writing instructor who said that you should never have to pay a publisher to publish your book.

Yes, it's very simple. Publishing houses are supposed to offer an advance payment in exchange for the services like editing, covers, publicity, and distribution. If they aren't paying you, they're a vanity publisher. Period.

You are selling THEM limited rights (I hope) to your work and a chance for them to share in your profits for expanded distribution. They should not be selling you things you already have.

Not all publishers offer advances anymore and even the big boys have cut back on the amount of the advances.

What a writer wants to look for is what professional standards the publisher offers; ie, editing, cover design, marketing, distribution, placement, and what their reputation is.

There are too many new publishers out there that come from the, "Hey, I like to read, I like to write, I was an English major, let me be a publisher now, school. Two years later they fold because they really do not understand the publishing industry and when they fold, 9 out 10 take the writers work with them...

Always research any publisher, editor, agent, etc...

So right, Nick. ALWAYS do your research first, first is key. In fact, I could slap up a website in about 30 minutes, URL hosting and all for about $20 that says I'm a publisher. I have no experience in the commercial publishing or distribution field--and distribution is key to actually selling the books. All I'll do is publish through Createspace just like you could, or Smashwords just like you could. Would you really want me to publish your book?

I just had a disappointing experience with Tate Publishing. I was offered a 'Non-Investment Contract' which states they will absorb the well-known $4,000 investment. It states in the contract that I must provide the PDF files in a certain time frame (2 weeks from the signing of the contract). A friend of mine who is a technical guru in these matters did all that they required in a timely matter and I was in constant contact with them via email and phone if everything was okay.

They kept saying that such and such wasn't right and we went over it again and again until finally they said we were "good to go." So we waited patiently after I was instructed they will contact me while it was under review for production. That was until a month or so later, I get a call from them saying I need to pay over $900 to get the layout right and offered another contract stating that while voiding the previous one. They are supposed to contact me next week to see if I would like to accept that offer. I think not!

Has anyone else had a similar experience with Tate?

As a new and extremely raw author, I too was drawn in by "the acceptance letter by Tate Publishing. I had just been through the ringer with AuthorHouse with all the sales pitches for more, more, more, packages to pirchase in order to make my book a success. I had literally already written 5 books in my series and was extremely frustrated with the amount of cost it would take to "get it oit there." aboit to give up on the whole pu lishing thing, I thought.... just look up more publishing houses and see if any will bite. I checked into Xlibris, "Same as AuthorHouse" which by the way are still calling (harassing me to publish) with them, and came across Tate Publishing. Well after a long grueling year of back and forth pitiful editing, frustrating comments, and telling me how I was wrong to include "God" in a book with supernatural characters, and me telling them "I thought you read it before you sent me an acceptance letter, do your job and let me deal with the backlash if any, I was highly upset. They only set up book signings locally, advertised in local papers for these events, all things I could and have done myself. They claimed to be able to get my books on the shelves, which they did, in my local barnes and noble only, which I later found they mislead their (the B&N buyer) with false promises. One more thing, your investment $3985.00 will be returned to you upon you selling that amount of books in a certain period of time. This challenge is just that, a challenge because they will set your book price at a nearly impossible price that no one will want to pay for a book, a small one at that. Don't get me wrong, I do believe my work is worth it, bit in a competitive market as a person who buys books for themself and children adolescent and teen, I wouldn't dare pay such a ridiculous price for something unknown and unrated that is by a new author. I buy too many books to invest that much for a possible one time read I've heard nothing about. That was book 2 in my series, Authorhouse had book 1. Before I gave up, a friend messaged me on facebook and told me to give CreateSpace a try. There is no upfront investment and he would help me with my covers and formatting. I used them for book 3, then 4, then 5, and thought... hey that was easy. I then contacted Authorhouse and Tate publishing and dissolved my contracts withem both, redid my covers, changed up a few things in the story (rewrite) then republished those through Createspace as well. Haven't looked back and have published 8 books total since. If you'll spend the time marketing, promoting, social networking, which by the way you'll have to do with any publisher, you'll do fine. I hope this helps as I wouldn't want either of those companies to take advantage of anyone else. My family suffered through trying to make my dream come true and neither of them care one bit.

Sorry about the earlier post. It was written on my phone which has sometimey auto correct and very small touchscreen keys with no way to proof read in the very small window box before submitting a comment.

Thank you, Tamala.

you're welcome James.

Tamala wrote: "As a new and extremely raw author, I too was drawn in by "the acceptance letter by Tate Publishing. I had just been through the ringer with AuthorHouse with all the sales pitches for more, more, ..."

Thanks for sharing your informative experience.I've had similar experiences with a publisher who deceived me.Am about to use Createspace for next book.

Jasenn wrote: "Tamala wrote: "As a new and extremely raw author, I too was drawn in by "the acceptance letter by Tate Publishing. I had just been through the ringer with AuthorHouse with all the sales pitches f..."

I too am a newbie and I decided to use a local publisher, A&A Printing in Tampa, Florida.

http://www.whitepages.com/business/a-...

It is early in our relationship, but our f2f conversations have left us feeling that we have made the right decision. They were helpful and accommodating during the interview, not pushy, and they have been quite available to us for advice and counsel.

Here is our contact there if you like:

Maryellen O'Rourke
A&A Printing & Publishing
6103 Johns Road #5
Tampa, Florida 33634
(813) 886-0065 ext. 102
(813) 884-0304 fax
[email protected]
www.printshopcentral.com

Tamala wrote: "As a new and extremely raw author, I too was drawn in by "the acceptance letter by Tate Publishing. I had just been through the ringer with AuthorHouse with all the sales pitches for more, more, ..."

Just curioius? What are you sales and profit margins?

Who are your distributors?

Anita wrote: "Tamala wrote: "As a new and extremely raw author, I too was drawn in by "the acceptance letter by Tate Publishing. I had just been through the ringer with AuthorHouse with all the sales pitches f..."

At this point I don't know what the profit margins will be because there are still too many unknown factors such as the cost of website and blog development, etc.

Our estimates are that our initial cost will be a little over $4,000 for 500 pbooks and unlimited ebooks. We estimate our gross sales will be approximately $7600 based on selling 450 printed copies at $16.95 and 200 ebooks at $9.95.

We are guessing that our profit margin through Amazon will be around $2.00 per printed copy. Not sure about ebook profits.

Obviously we can make a lot more on direct sales from the author website, but we don't anticipate a high volume that way.

At this point we can only guess that we will at least break even on the first 500 copies plus ebooks. After that, a lot of the one-time initial expenses will disappear and the profits might go up slightly. Unless we have to give them away because we can't sell them.

This is our first experience in this game, and it looks like doing a full-blown self-publishing and marketing effort is quite a gamble. I do know that vanity authors can publish quite cheaply if they use a lot of free services and stick to ebooks exclusively. I know some "authors" who claim they do the whole thing for free. But we are not amateurs. We are professionals and very particular about our product and our marketing.

Thanks for your question Tamala. I don't think I'll get much sleep tonight! :)

Nick wrote: "Who are your distributors?"

A&A Printing, which I mentioned above will handle any part of the process we wish. However, I don't think they do things other than printing in-house. They connected us up with our ebook publisher, but I think he is an independent. I also think he was a good choice.

Of course, distribution is not an issue through booksellers like Amazon and it's included in the overall percentage they take.

Our plan for distribution of direct sales is to do it ourselves. I'm worrying about that because if the volume gets to be too much it will interfere with the time I can spend marketing. Fortunately, A&A printing can pick up the slack. Of course, that would eat into our profit margin.

We have not discussed these extra services in any detail. Our contract is for printing only (printing on demand). But based on the $1,995 we have agreed to for 500 books (308 pages plus cover), I know they are competitive with the other book printers/publishers we have interviewed.

I hope this helps.

Jerry wrote: "Nick wrote: "Who are your distributors?"

A&A Printing, which I mentioned above will handle any part of the process we wish. However, I don't think they do things other than printing in-house. They..."

P.S. And of course, all this drudge work following the authoring stage means I won't have a lot of time for researching and writing the sequel. :)

I've just joined your group and am so pleased to see such good advice being given out. I have had a very bad experience with a publisher who brought my work out in five books packed with mistakes and destined for school classrooms. I was heartbroken to be quite honest and, having been a qualified teacher of typewriting amongst other subjects all my life, I thought: "I can do better than this" and I have. I've published my own Ebooks, with no mistakes, and they sell well from my own websites - well away from publishers.

Glad to have another new member with me in this group.

One of the problems with editing and editors is that authors aren't willing to pay enough to get a thorough editing done. My wife Michele edits books, but only for those clients who also pay her for cover design, and layout. The reason she won't do editing only is that most authors pay too little for her to do the kind of meticulous job she takes pride in. Editing is a loser and she makes it up on the charges for design which authors seem to regard as more important than content quality.

Another bit of information that I've read in blogs and author group pages over the last year is that even through mainstream publishing houses, your cut of profit from your own work is minimal. The days of getting that "advancement check" are pretty much over. Another feat I've noticed by following celebrities of all fields, just to keep up with how marketing works for them, I've come to realize that even big time celebrities have to market themselves. Everyone is pushing their products, movies, music, etc. If "They" have to, then of course us unknowns have to market as well. There is no easy way out of marketing and promoting, we all have to delve ourselves in it to some degree. I find self-publishing and doing the footwork myself less stressful than someone telling me what I can and can't write, dictating a schedule of production, or limiting me to only local venues. I find that most libraries will let you host speaking events/book signings with maybe a donation of a few copies of your books. Bookstores will do the same, and then there are schools. Of course with schools, you'll have to go though protocol/channels of command via application, but the way through that is to talk to the director over the literary department and agree to speak to literature classes, give encouraging advice and of course bring a few copies to donate. There are ways to get exposure of your work, we just have to be willing to do the work to get there. By the way, I've been too lazy to do some of these things, but through common support groups, I've seen authors take this route and thrive.
Just some hopefully helpful information.
Tamala

Somebody has been drinking the magic feel good koolaid the self publishing guru's pass around.

Don't believe everything you read about self publishing vs commercial publishing. Both have their places, but the self publishing guru's generally get it wrong...

Meh. I've done both. It's better to be self-published than to go with a bad publisher (one who charges you for anything up front or one who has no idea how to do publicity). You can get editing and professional cover art and layout on your own. It's the name and the publicity that makes a publisher worth it, and if they are no good at that, it's a waste of your money/time.

K. A.

Don't confuse a vanity publisher with a commercial publisher, they are not the same. I might also add, if that is your only experience with what you consider a commercial publisher, then you really don't have experience with a commercial publisher.

Yog's law in publishing is the money always flows to the writer...

I have not been with a 'vanity publisher', I have been with a commercial publisher. Don't jump to conclusions. My advice was general. Not all commercial publishers know what they're doing.

My first book was published with Trafford Publishing. I would never work with them again. While I did not have to spend a ton of money to get my book published, they wanted $10,000 to do PR work! Plus, they called me non-stop trying to sell me the "extras."

My second book is currently being published at Tate Publishing and I, like Anita, am having a wonderful experience. I think that what every author needs to realize is that there will be some cost upfront. Once your book gains recognition, you should not have to put up any more money. With Tate Publishing, you receive your entire amount back once you have sold 1,000 copies. I read through the entire contract with my husband and he did not see anything that was questionable.

As to Tate firing employees due to a rumor of outsourcing, I cannot base publishing my book on that. Since I was not actually at the Tate Publishing Company, it would be foolish of me to comment on speculation. Furthermore, I think that a lot of companies are outsourcing. While I do not agree with it, I do not think that there is much that I personally can do to stop it. Just my thoughts!

A lot of interesting perspectives on 'self publishing' and Tate.

First of all, I too, sent a query to Tate, got an offer, (asking that I prepay $4,000) for P.O.D. publishing (which is basically what places like CreateSpace (for Amazon) does); and CreateSpace does it for FREE. When I read over their contract, and realized that most of the "services" they offered, were things I've already done for myself, proofing, cover art, layout of the pages (camera ready basically), and marketing I pretty much just set it aside, never to touch again. Then I received a call, and when I explained to the lady that I have already done most of the work myself, and the book is already 'out there' (doing quite well I might add - and NOT from friends and relatives as someone mentioned earlier) she offered to lower the price to $1500!!! This has scam written all over it. Not to mention that a good author friend of mine used their services, and got little to NO marketing. Yes, the book looked nice, but so do the books created by CreateSpace for Amazon. The formatting is simple, and by utilizing a combination of CreateSpace and Smashwords, my books are available on every venue possible: Amazon (hard copy & e-book), B&N (e-book, will comment about 'in store' later on here), Sony, Kobo, Diesel, Apple, AND in local bookstores, etc.

As far as the distribution these vanity publishers offer . . . RUN, do NOT WALK in the opposite direction: for example, Barnes and Noble WILL NOT stock books in their brick and mortar stores that are produced as P.O.D. - no matter WHO the P.O.D. publisher is, including CreateSpace!!!!! I know, I sent an extensive media kit, even outlining that I would act as distributor, accept returns, etc., the whole marketing venue, along with a hard copy of the book itself, and got a cute little 'note' from some secretary who I know for a fact didn't even bother to open the book once she discovered it was printed through CreateSpace! In her 'nice' little rejection letter, she said "If your book was published through Lightning Source, blah blah blah, then it could be distributed through our ONLINE stores, and brick and mortar stores . . . WELL, DUH, she obviously didn't read the promo materials I sent outlining the success the book is having ALREADY on their online store! AND, friends and authors, there is NO GUARANTEE that if you PAY Lightning Source to publish your book, that it will get put on the shelves at Barnes and Noble, as there are so many books out there, new authors, etc., that the chances are slim to almost none, and if it does get placed, it might end up in the dark, back corner, on a shelf so low, that readers would have to lay on their belly just to see it. :)

Summing this all up, there are tons of people who are having great success with self publishing (for FREE); if they are willing to put a little work and effort into FIRST, proofing, editing, and most of all, MARKETING their book. Another author and I are exchanging manuscripts, prior to publication to double-proof, and catch POV things, grammatical missteps, etc., nothing major or drastic in the overall development of the story, just technical things that otherwise might go unnoticed to the original author's eyes. We have a great relationship of trust and confidence in each other's skills in editing, etc., and it picks up the slack and puts another set of fresh 'eyes' on the work. I hope this gives a little insight to some who have questions. Even if you go with a 'traditional' publisher, you are still going to have to invest time and energy in self promotion, that is just the nature of the game.

K.A. wrote: "I have not been with a 'vanity publisher', I have been with a commercial publisher. Don't jump to conclusions. My advice was general. Not all commercial publishers know what they're doing."

I was basing my comment off of what you noted about publishers who charge or do not know what they are doing. If I misunderstood, I apologize.

Still, any publisher who charges for services, even in a co-op, are vanity publishers. And if they don't know what they are doing, do you really consider them to be an experienced commercial publisher?

I am just trying to point out that many writers who are not familiar with publishing, do not understand the differences between commercial, vanity, and self publishing. (Which can be a form of vanity publishing, depending on how the writer handles it...)

By the way, what do you consider a commercial publisher, especially those that do not know what they are doing...

Speaking as someone who had a book published with Trafford Publishing and just recently signed a contract with Tate, I would LOVE if a more experienced author could shed some light on what a commercial publisher is and how I can get my story to one. Also, is it truly necessary to have a literary agent? Can someone please recommend a reputable group? Thank you for the support and help!

Any publisher that ask you to pay for services in not a commercial publisher in the traditional sense. They are considered Vanity publishers, just like Tate and Trafford publishing with is owned by Author Solutions, a well know Vanity Publisher.

This seems self-evident, Lauren, but if you are self-publishing, then YOU are the publisher. What I've hired is a very good book printer. If I want they have a network of professionals I can choose from to help me do what traditional publishers were supposed to do but never did satisfactorily.

I'm convinced my book won't sell itself and no one will sell it for me. I understand marketing well enough, but it is not my talent and I would rather be writing. But, life in the publishing world is what it is and I'm making the best of it.

And I know there are lots of companies out there feeding off Indie authors. I just spent over an hour with a sales person from PR Wire who was trying to sell me their subsidiary's "marketing suite". He's going to send me a proposal, but I already know I won't bite. If I'm going to DIY, I'm not going to hire someone to do it for me. And, while a one-man-band has its limitations, they are not as confining as they once were before the day of the Internet with its available knowledge and networks.

I may feel overwhelmed, but I don't feel alone.