Audiobooks discussion

When I write a book in eBook and print form, it's very easy to differentiate inner thoughts from spoken dialog. The correct way is to italicize the thoughts and bring them into the present tense. I've recently noticed, however, when listening to a book (it happened to be my own Double Forte', book one in LeGarde Mysteries, but that's a moot point!), that in a few cases I intended for Gus's words to be thoughts, not spoken, but it was tough to tell which in the context they were narrated.

One thought I had about it was to edit the ms only for audio books and to insert "he thought" after inner dialog or some action beat that implies it, such as "his mind whirred, and the ideas wouldn't stop." Well, that was rather lame, but do you know what I mean?

What do you writers / narrators / listeners think?

Actors merely need to speak thoughts in a stage whisper and that will do it. Sometimes they don't know or forget.

Ah, excellent idea, Paul! Thank you very much, I will be sure my narrators know this for next time. ;o)

I like the stage whisper way best.

There was one audiobook I listened to that made the narrator's voice sound like it was sort of in a cave or echo-y to differentiate. Not sure which book it was but it did the job. It also made me check my player to make sure nothing was wrong the first time it happened since I wasn't expecting it.

Ender's Game, one of my favorites, has a ton of inner monologue, but it is separated well. The words are spoken the same way, I think the book was just written in such a way that you knew when you were hearing thoughts rather than spoken words. Does that make sense?

There were also some of these occasionally: "but Ender knew even as he thought it, that it wasn't true"

*Update: Actually I just went back and listened to a bit. I think there is the smallest change in the narrator's voice between thoughts and spoken word. Such a small change that I don't think I've ever noticed before.

Interesting, J! And you know, I think as I write my current WIP, I will try to be sure I incorporate those words that make it clear it's an inner thought. In the old days I didn't think about audio books as one of the vehicles to deliver my stories to folks, so they aren't written the way they might have been were I thinking ahead in this realm! Thank you for your thoughts on this. ;o)

I didn't notice this as a problem until I read the Gabriel Du Pre series and was frequently at a loss as to whether Gabe was speaking, thinking, or accidentally speaking aloud his thoughts--which he does frequently. It would have been clear in print but the narrator failed to differentiate. I think narrators--the good ones--instinctively make vocal adjustments that might best be described as "in an aside" or "in an undertone". These alterations are very subtle but very distinct so the audiobook reader catches on virtually immediately. I've also read a book or two that used the reverb effect and I thought it was fine so long as the reverb was as subtle as a narrator's minor vocal changes would be. In lieu of relying on the narrator's discretion though, I think an author might well want to include the textual clues when there might be any doubt.

I actually come down on the side of saying "He/She thought" because the stage whisper choice assumes the listener is following along using headphones and can pick up such a slight difference. But what if they're in their car on the freeway or making dinner in the kitchen; some place with a fair amount of ambient noise? Then the Soto Voce approach risks getting lost and they'll either not hear it at all or have to back up and give it another listen, taking them out of the story up; not the easiest thing to do while on the highway.

Also, this saves the engineer and producer money/time by not having to put reverb on that section and ALL of my clients insist on a clean recording anyway.

Jeanie wrote: "I didn't notice this as a problem until I read the Gabriel Du Pre series and was frequently at a loss as to whether Gabe was speaking, thinking, or accidentally speaking aloud his thoughts--which h..."

Interesting, Jeanie. I think the more we listen to a wide variety of books and in my case, the more audio books I have produced from my print/eBook collection, the more we learn. Thanks for your comment!

Hi, Sean. I think I will go through all my future manuscripts to hone in on this - I do almost all my books in first person, so I'll try to do "I thought," or add some action beats that clarify it.

Aaron wrote: "Hi, Sean. I think I will go through all my future manuscripts to hone in on this - I do almost all my books in first person, so I'll try to do "I thought," or add some action beats that clarify it."

"Wow, that Aaron guy is one smart dude," Sean thought....

Sean wrote: "I actually come down on the side of saying "He/She thought" because the stage whisper choice assumes the listener is following along using headphones and can pick up such a slight difference. But w..."

I'm curious as to whom you mean when you say "my clients". Also, what do you mean by "a clean copy", other than no background noises, no swallows, no flubbed lines, etc.? It's always interesting to get an insider's POV.

As a reader/listener, I prefer the more direct "I thought" etc.. I agree with Sean - often one is listening in less than ideal ambient noise conditions and can't distinguish a subtle change. And I don't like the idea of reverb.

That said, the author I'm listening to now has characters make a lot of asides right in the middle of dialogue, which works well on the page but is a nightmare to listen to. I have to re-listen to distinguish which lines are spoken and which are thought, and I do so mainly by guessing which is more likely. I'm not sure how that quick-fire 'think-speak-think' could be conveyed in the audio (the essential speed and flow would be lost if tags were used). The narrator tries to do it by changing volume (rather muttering the thoughts and speaking up for the dialogue) but it's almost impossible for him to convey it clearly.

In another, though unrelated, example of problems found when moving from print to audio... an author I used to read once commented that she began speling her main male characters' names with the letter h thrown in seemingly randomly--giving the names both a foreign quality and slightly camouflaging that the names were homonyms of words such as rage, fury, viscious--but she had never contemplated them being read aloud for audiobooks. The names were pronounced aloud just like their homonyms and the gimmick couldn't be conveyed. But now she is aware of audio and hopes those readers will somehow discover the spellings and noted she might have chosen differently if audio had been so popular when the series started.

I wonder if any other writers now consciously make choices based on how it will sound in audio in addition to how it will look on the page?

Jeanie wrote: "I wonder if any other writers now consciously make choices based on how it will sound in audio in addition to how it will look on the page? ..."

If it stops some of the rather ridiculous names being used now, then it's all to the good! But I'm quite surprised that authors don't already consider how things sound; don't many readers read new words (including names) aloud to themselves the first time they encounter them?

I don't, usually, because I think I read by recognising the shape of the word and I rely on the capital letter to alert me to the fact that it's such-and-such character. (Which is why I hate it when more than one character has names beginning with the same letter.)

More generally, I would expect good writing to have the rhythm and pace which is both necessary for and will be enhanced by audio.

Hj wrote: "Jeanie wrote: "I wonder if any other writers now consciously make choices based on how it will sound in audio in addition to how it will look on the page? ..."

If it stops some of the rather ridic..."

True. I think the phenomenon of relying on the "shape" of names and their initial letters for recognizing names is why that author thought the gimmick I referred to was an effective one. And if some of those I've talked to who have read the print book are any indicator, it worked with a surprisingly large percentage of them.

I have to admit that Lord of the Rings gave me fits the first time I read it, which was in print, because that is how I had always coped with names and Tolkien loved to name people very similarly--Sauron/Saraman, anyone? That's one reason I love the audio version so much, I never confuse the names now. Russian literature is also rampant with such similar names and I abandoned all of them when I tried to read them in print. Now... Tolstoy, Dostoyevski, Gogol, no problem!

Jeanie wrote: "Sean wrote: "I actually come down on the side of saying "He/She thought" because the stage whisper choice assumes the listener is following along using headphones and can pick up such a slight diff..."

By "clients" I mean the companies I narrate for; Blackstone, Tantor, Random House, etc. And "Clean Copy" means all the above, plus no effects or music etc., they make those additions, or not, while they are mastering the finally audio.

Jeanie wrote: "In another, though unrelated, example of problems found when moving from print to audio... an author I used to read once commented that she began speling her main male characters' names with the le..."

My daughter just read a book Bad Kitty, where the stepmother character's name was spelled with an "!" at the end of it. My daughter asked how I would do that in an audiobook, and I had no idea. I noticed that this is not available in audio :)

Jeanie wrote: "In another, though unrelated, example of problems found when moving from print to audio... an author I used to read once commented that she began speling her main male characters' names with the le..."

Oh, wow, Jeanie. That is weird about the random "h's" being thrown in. I do think that in the future more authors are going to be "thinking ahead" to audio books. I know some big name writers who never even LISTEN to the audio book (I can't imagine doing that, I take such pride in the work) but then there are guys like me who listen to every chapter several times while making suggestions for intonation changes, etc. Pronunciations that are off drive me nuts. ;o)

Hope you are having a great holiday today.

Karen wrote: "Jeanie wrote: "In another, though unrelated, example of problems found when moving from print to audio... an author I used to read once commented that she began speling her main male characters' na..."

Karen, that is a weird one!!!! Would you have to shout it out every time the name appeared???? LOL.

Wayne wrote: "A good narrator is able to give the listener certain cues that will help to differentiate between spoken dialog and inner thought.

In addition to what is recommended above, I sometimes manipulate..."

Wayne, thank you so much for your insight. I'm going to listen to this excerpt shortly. It's fascinating from a writers and listener's pov to learn about the nuances in the narrating world. Wonderful stuff!

Your notation about trusting the listener's ability to infer runs a close parallel with a writer's credo of not telling too much, not over-explaining to the reader, because they really do understand and don't need to be hand fed. I teach this to many of my fledgling writers who nest under my wings from time to time.

Thanks and have a great weekend.

Hi, Wayne. Back again - I can't seem to get your link to play on my MacBook Pro. Play button doesn't do anything... and I don't think it's loading. My volume's up and I signed in with FB in case that helped but maybe I'm missing a plugin that works with SoundCloud? aaron dot lazar at yahoo dot com. (I'd love to hear your example of inner thought differentiation)

Wayne wrote: "A good narrator is able to give the listener certain cues that will help to differentiate between spoken dialog and inner thought.

In addition to what is recommended above, I sometimes manipulate..."

This is so cool, getting a look inside the techniques of a good narrator. Once you explained it I immediately recognized the effect I've heard from good narrators--proximity plus lowered volume--that signals internal thoughts. It's very effective when well done.Thanks again for sharing... all the folks here, in fact, it's very cool.

Wayne wrote: "I just tried it again now. Works fine. You probably need to update your Flash Player. My MacBook Pro asked for that earlier in the week."

Newer macs don't come with Flash Player. One can either install it, or just download Google Chrome with comes with it. I'd recommend using Chrome for the times one needs Flash.

Wayne wrote: "I just tried it again now. Works fine. You probably need to update your Flash Player. My MacBook Pro asked for that earlier in the week.

W"

Ah! Will do, thanks!

Tim wrote: "Wayne wrote: "I just tried it again now. Works fine. You probably need to update your Flash Player. My MacBook Pro asked for that earlier in the week."

Newer macs don't come with Flash Player. One..."

Thanks, Tim. Mine is new last Christmas, so I'll check out Chrome!

Karen wrote: "Jeanie wrote: "In another, though unrelated, example of problems found when moving from print to audio... an author I used to read once commented that she began speling her main male characters' na..."

I'd contact the author asking what she intended when she wrote it that way.

I've heard the distant tinny, echo-y sound used in a book, but it was when part of a previous book (in a memory context) was being quoted. But I like the idea for inner thoughts, as long as it's done well. But a really good narrator can do it with their voice alone, which is incredible impressive.

Yes, Alana, one of my favorite writers, Lois Bujold, has her characters voicing a lot of inner thoughts and somehow the narrator, Grover Gardener (Vorkosigan series) usually makes it clear which parts are thought and which are spoken aloud. It is an impressive skill.
I thought Lloyd James and Kate Reading also did it well with Bujold's out of series books, The Curse of Chalion and Paladin of Souls.