THE Group for Authors! discussion

Hey folks, I was wondering if anyone has any useful tips on what exatcly agents are looking for today. My first 2 attempts at writing a book were deemed not commercial material. Fair enough I thought I'll try and write something with the commercial aspect in mind. My 3rd attempt has done very decent download numbers from what I can gather from other authors on sites such as this. A combination of sales and frees of around 16,500 in a little under 4 months. But I am still getting the generic rejection letters that we all know and love where we get the feeling that no-one has taken the time to read what we've sent in. Don't get me wrong I am not suggesting for one second that I should have agents beating my door down based on a few downloads, I'm sure that I'm a million miles away from that. I would just like to feel that my work has actually been read and considered. Does anyone know of any useful tips or agents that they have had postive experiences with?

Hi Matt,

That is the question we would all like to hear the answer to! I completely understand what you are saying, I'm in almost the exact same spot.

If you want to write the next novel with a more concentrated focus toward it being 'commercially viable', consider taking a look at some of the top agents' websites/submissions pages. Most of them have a paragraph or two that states what they are currently looking for. I assume those 'want lists' are reflective of what some of the editors are looking for that the agents hope to sell stories to. Find a common denominator that appeals to you, and see what you can develop from there.

You don't want an agent these days anyway--they take money and don't do much of anything for it. Publishers may come knocking on on your door if you book is selling well (not free downloads but actual purchases) as an eBook. By well, I mean Amanda Hocking well. You can also create a print version of your book and send that one to publishers.

Most importantly, if you get a publisher interested in you, HIRE A COPYRIGHT LAWYER. Far more important than an agent, they will help you protect your rights to your product. Writer contracts have become notoriously bad over the last few years.

On the whole, I agree with Judy. Most agents work for the publishers now, even though they pretend to represent you.

For an answer to your question, try http://www.pw.org/agent_advice at Poets and Writers Magazine. Don't be surprised if the advice seems subjective or vague.

For an anti-agent perspective, try Dean Wesley Smith's blog at http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?page_....

Matt,

Unless your books are selling in the tens of thousands, you are going to have a hard time interesting an agent on a work that has already been published.

Why?

First publication rights. While e-book can remain for sale, forever, most books have a sales life of about 6 months. That means whatever sales you have gotten after about 6 months is going to peter out.

Now, if you have multiple books you are self publishing, you have a chance to extend the sale life of each book before the latest. Provided of course, the latest is also getting sales.

The reason the agent is looking for first rights, in most cases, is because that is where the publishers make their money, especially for a debut author.

Of course there are excepts but that is all they are is exceptions. In the years I have been tracking the publishing world, maybe a few dozen authors who started out as a self published writer have gone on to sign with the big name publishers. It is a matter of numbers, as there were over 500,000 self published tittles in 2010 alone, while the big six and small of the smaller publishers accounted for a mere 250,000 tittles in the same year.

There is also an old rule about writing. It generally takes about a million words before an author finds his voice and style. In publishing, it generally takes about 3 books before the author gets a steady following, if at all.

Of course, the reason agents could be rejecting is far different than what I point out. It just might be the submission does not live up to the standards the publishers expect. In other words, your submission might not be as good as you think. That is not to say it is bad, just not as good as you think...

Good luck with your future submissions and my biggest suggestion, don't give up. Keep writing and you will get better as you approach that 1 million word mark...

Judy wrote: "You don't want an agent these days anyway--they take money and don't do much of anything for it. Publishers may come knocking on on your door if you book is selling well (not free downloads but act..."

And yet agents and publishers are signing new authors to very profitable deals every year.

This comment reminds me of the kool aid pablum the self publishing gurus are pushing on writers who do not know better.

Shakes head...

Agents want books that knock their socks off. Books that, no matter how bad the market is, cannot be forgotten or dismissed. That's a high bar, but it's what they're looking for. I was an agent myself for many years, but in this, I'm quoting my own current agent, Gail Hochman, president of the Brandt & Hochman literary agency. There's a two-part interview with her on my blog, In Cold Ink, that you might want to read---I'll stick a link on the end of this post.

The one thing they're not looking for, according to Gail, are books that have already been published. If you sell (not give away) 20,000 or more of self-published book, I think agents would be very interested in seeing your next book. But one that's already been published? Not so much.

There's more here, from the horse's mouth: http://barbararogan.com/blog/?p=81

Judy wrote: "You don't want an agent these days anyway--they take money and don't do much of anything for it. Publishers may come knocking on on your door if you book is selling well (not free downloads but act..."

Oy. I hardly know where to start correcting all the misstatements here. So I'll just dive in.

Legitimate literary agents make their money through a commission on what they sell. If they don't sell your book, they've worked for free. If they do sell your book, that 15% commission is the best money you'll ever spend.

Entertainment lawyers charge fees of $400+ an hour. It makes sense to hire one only if you have a movie deal on the table. Otherwise, agents do the job for a fraction of that cost--a percentage of your earnings--and they know publishing contracts much better than most lawyers, because it's their area of expertise. They also market subsidiary rights, putting your book in the hands of foreign agents and scouts and film agents.

You can't sell to major publishers without an agent. The days when a writer finished a book, stuck the ms. in an envelope and mailed it to Mr. Doubleday are long gone. Publishers now use agents to screen submissions and don't read unsolicited material. There are smaller imprints that do accept direct subs from writers, but if you want to try for the big time, you need an agent.

I disagree with some of what Barbara is saying. Intellectual property lawyers are not the same as entertainment lawyers, although there may be overlap. IP attorneys don't all charge $400+ an hour -- and paying for a couple of hours of expert opinion about publishing contracts, one time, may be a far better deal than 15% of a book's income for the life of the copyright. Agents are not always aware of their own limitations where it's necessary to analyze the details and implications of more recent, "grabbier" publishing contracts.

If one wants a traditional publishing deal, one is far more likely to get one with an agent -- but especially in some genres (e.g. SF), there are publishers who don't necessarily require it.

And anyone trying for the "big time" had better do some research first about what that experience has become.

Barbara wrote: "Judy wrote: "You don't want an agent these days anyway--they take money and don't do much of anything for it. Publishers may come knocking on on your door if you book is selling well (not free down..."

Nick wrote: "Judy wrote: "You don't want an agent these days anyway--they take money and don't do much of anything for it. Publishers may come knocking on on your door if you book is selling well (not free down..."
I read the first part of the interview and think it's very informative. I'm looking forward to the second part.

Karen wrote: "I disagree with some of what Barbara is saying. Intellectual property lawyers are not the same as entertainment lawyers, although there may be overlap. IP attorneys don't all charge $400+ an hour -..."

Spoken like an attorney! But is the IP attorney going to get the book in front of the right editors in the right houses; sell the book; represent the author's rights throughout through the whole publishing process; weigh in on everything from cover design to marketing plan; handle foreign rights, film and other subsidiary rights through an extensive network of subagents, and educate the author about the ever-changing publishing world? Because those are some of the functions of a literary agent; and they do all of it with no payment unless they make money for the writer. In my mind (and I should mention in fairness that I was a literary agent for many years) a writer has no better ally in the world than a good agent, unless it's a supportive spouse.

I've heard from several authors who've spent many years in the publishing world that the role of the agent has changed a great deal in the last few years. What you describe sounds like the best agents from before that change. (BTW, I'm not and never have been an IP attorney -- but yes, I am professionally open to the idea that an attorney can be invaluable to someone entering into an important contract.)

An IP attorney is only going to advise a client on their IP rights, they do not represent the client in sales.

IP attorney's are not going to sell foreign rights or any other subsidiary rights, because those are not their fields of speciality in most cases. And most self published writers do not know where to start. Hell, in many cases, they may not even know what those rights are worth on the open market.

For all the whining the self publishing guru's are doing about agents not doing anything, and not worth their fees, this is just not so in most cases.

Karen wrote: "I've heard from several authors who've spent many years in the publishing world that the role of the agent has changed a great deal in the last few years. What you describe sounds like the best age..."

Ah. But I am an author and former agent who's spent 30+ years in the industry, which doesn't mean I can't be wrong; it just means I have been and still am immersed in that world. As advances shrink and the number of trade publishers contracts, some agents have looked for ways to supplement their income, and a few have hit upon assisting writers to self-publish; so it that's what you mean by changes in the profession, then yes. Otherwise, agents are still doing what they always did, as per my last post. If you're curious, there's an in-depth interview with leading agent Gail Hochman (also president of the AAR)that gives a closer look at the profession. http://barbararogan.com/blog/?p=81

I don't have near the experience that most of you posting here have but I do think that things are changing.

Publishing is a numbers game, in that the more chances a publisher takes the better their odds of having at least one book connect. Because real books cost money to print, ship, and return there has to be some means of thinning the herd of possible books that could be printed.

Agents are the first gate keepers in the book weeding process. No doubt they are far from perfect and miss as many opportunities as they discover.

I think that self-publishing and changes in technology are going to completely change the book business. All the editing, formatting, and other industrial functions now performed by publishers can be purchased. The number of e-book readers is only increasing and there is a younger generation that will consume far fewer print books.

However all these changes are a good thing. In the current book industry think of all the waste. The creation and sale of paper books is not an efficient process. I don't have the link but understand that over half of all books printed end up being returned and dumped in landfills or mulched.

The same inefficiencies can be seen with bookstores. There are good reasons why the bookstores are closing. Is it possible in the future we will see libraries selling paper books that are printed on demand on site? Until a reader wants a paper book is there a reason for it to exist and what better place to find a book than a library.

What we are witnessing is the death of industrial literature and a return to writing being a source of self-employment and artistic expression. The role of agents will also have to shift, maybe more cheerleader and less gate keeper.

Marc,

While electronic publishing has changed the face of publishing, it is not going to get rid of agents or the big publishers.

As to bookstores, their problems started long before electronic publishing and ereaders came out. Mergers from the 80's left many of the publishers with huge debt and they were slow to react.

As to libraries, publishers are working with libraries as new platforms open up. If libraries fall, it will be because of local, state, and federal budgets getting slashed, and not because of self publishing.

All the wishful thinking about how self publishing is going to change the whole of publishing, just don't make it so. The reality, the big publishers and many, many, small Indie publishers have the experience, the skill, and the money to adapt better than most self publishers ever will have...

Hi Nick,

I don't quite think the trends we are seeing are just wishful thinking. I would suggest we look at the music industry and how technology has changed it.

People are consuming more music than ever, but less of the same music. Technology has allowed listeners to listen to only what interests them and they now have the ability to locate exactly what interest them.

Have you seen any music stores lately or what about a video store? The costs associated with a physical product are to high, store, employees, taxes, heating/cooling, cleaning, inventory, etc... Why do we think books will be immune to this reality?

I still have a preference for physical books but rarely buy one. I borrow from the library if possible or buy used for a fraction of the cost if the book is worth having (I have a very small library). My kids however prefer e-books. None of this suggests a bright future for book stores.

In my view this opens up opportunities for libraries to become places where the public goes to browse physical books or even have them printed. Check out the following link, On demand On site printing.

In the end I think it is content that readers care about and will talk to other readers about. Have you ever heard a reader say any of the following;
- I only read books published by Harper & Bernstein.
- You've got to read this book, the cover is great!
- The best books require millions in advertising.
- I only buy books I see advertised.

Traditional publishing and agents are best suited to ensure that a certain level of quality is achieved, why I still have a preference for the books they publish. That's not an advantage I think they can keep long term.

So what are the advantages that publishers and agents have if book stores were to largely disappear, if all the tools used to create books become readily available to the general public, and it turns out that readers are more interested in content than who published it?

Why in the hell does every self publishing follower want to compare the music industry with writing? They are two different mediums.

Buying a music download online that is 3 to 5 minutes long is a far different experience for a consumer than buying a book that may take the reader several days of leisure time to consume. Notice the word leisure time...

Music does not require leisure time. You can plug it in while working, driving to and from work, exercising or just relaxing. You play the music at back yard barbeque's, dinner parties, or at birthday parties. Music is back ground entertainment that does not require the full attention of the listener.

But a book, the reader has to pay complete attention to the reading process and their purchase decisions are therefore different. A book is a one-on-one experience and requires the readers full attention. This makes reading a far different experience when the reader goes to purchase a book.

As to libraries, they do not hurt publishing or authors. Why? Because libraries pay a higher price for the books they loan than you or I will find in a bookstore or online. The writer still gets his royalty and why you don't hear authors crying that libraries are ripping them off and preventing them from making a living.

I do agree that prices for hardback books have gone up to the point that I am very selective what hardback books I buy. But then so has the price of milk and bread, not to mention steak. Going out to eat is more expensive as well, but people are still going out to eat. They are just selective.

But, back to the Music industry. Private labels and self published Cd's almost killed the music industry even for those just trying to break in. The money was not being made by the artist. Do some research...

NOW, my disclaimer. I am not against self published books, music, or film. I just hate it when everyone touts the benefits without looking at the pitfalls which are more prevalent than the success stories.

Take the report on the Publishing Industry put out by Publishers Weekly in 2012, reporting on 2010. Over 750,000 book titles were published that year. Less than 250,000 were by commercial publisher, big and large. The rest, over 500,000, were self published books. That is an awful lot of competition for a self publisher with limited funds for editing, cover design, marketing, and ad placements.

For every single self published author you hear or read about as successful, there are tens of thousands who are not. This is a fact, just like the commercial publishing industry. The only difference, those authors who failed in the commercial industry did not have to pay for that failure out of their pockets.

The real winners in the self publishing industry are those start up companies that offer services to the self published author. It does not matter if the writer succeeds with their help or not because the services get their money from the self published writer, not the book buying public.

Nick wrote: "Marc,

While electronic publishing has changed the face of publishing, it is not going to get rid of agents or the big publishers.

As to bookstores, their problems started long before electronic p..."
So, are you suggesting that we self-published authors should just give up now because we are all outclassed?

Hi Nick,

I know some people who would have a difference of opinion with you when it comes to music- not a passive background unengaged leisure activity.

I can see your point that reading is different but not necessarily in a positive way. We read to either be entertained or educated, so how does it compare to other sources in terms of price and time? The idea that I am going to pay $25 for a book that will take me several hours to read is absurd. If it's educational there are likely faster and cheaper ways to obtain the same knowledge (Youtube, Wikipedia, and Google). If it's entertainment, the last time I checked a movie ticket is around $10 and takes two hours or you can wait and see it for far less than in your own living room.

My point is that it has been a very long time since I found a book worth paying full price for, books, especially physical copies have priced themselves out of the market. I also find it exceptionally insulting when e-books are only priced pennies below the cost of physical copies. More books I will never buy or at least wait until my local library acquires them.

So back to what traditional publishing and agents have to offer. Just what is that?

I don't buy into advertising or marketing working in most cases. Care to tell me the last three advertisements you saw, or what was the last advertisement that moved you enough to purchase something?

I think we buy things based on what our friends tell us. That's why the reviews on Goodreads are so valuable, it's pretty hard to game the crowd. Sure you can buy some reviews at the New York Times or even fabricate sales numbers to make the best sellers lists but it's no longer as easy to fool the public.

As for competition what's wrong with that? Most of the self-published authors I know are happy to have had the opportunity to be published, sales would be great but just being published is an accomplishment also. The motivations of writers are not always apparent.

Now I'm not saying there aren't good agents out there or that if you're getting six figure advances and selling thousands of books, you might want one. But otherwise . . .

http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=883...

http://www.mycopyeditor.com/my-copy-e...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lev-rap...

and this: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/03/06...

(Note that this last article is from a writer who has staunchly defended traditional publishing)

Just sayin'.

J DeWayne,

I was responding to inaccurate comments about why some writers perceive commercial publishers and agents to be in trouble.

Again, I have nothing against self publishing, but I have to be honest here, 90% of what I have read by self published writers tells me they are not ready for publishing.

As to agents, please give me a show of hands by self published writers who understand how to sell their subsidiary rights, or what the value of those rights might be overseas.

The US is not the only market and agents understand this crap better than you or I. They do this everyday for a living. They have contacts in other markets, they read what is selling overseas, and what the author is getting.

The agent works for the author and if your agent is not doing good, fire him, or her, and get another. It is really that simple...

BTW, the last post Judy included, by John Scalzi, is the most hilariously brilliant piece of outrage I've ever read. As soon as I read it, I started hunting down Scalzi's SF novels, because I knew that anything that man wrote would be worth reading.

Judy wrote: "Now I'm not saying there aren't good agents out there or that if you're getting six figure advances and selling thousands of books, you might want one. But otherwise . . .

http://www.deanwesleysm..."

John had a right to be outraged, and so were hundreds other writers and writing organizations at what RH was trying to do. Since then RH has backed down a bit though it is still not a traditional contract I would sign...

Nick wrote: "J DeWayne,

I was responding to inaccurate comments about why some writers perceive commercial publishers and agents to be in trouble.

Again, I have nothing against self publishing, but I have to ..."
Good comment, I just wanted to know if I should fall on my sword or keep writing. Of course, if you are an astute reader, which I think you are, you will realize that one good comment is not going to discourage me. I prefer to bash my head against the prevailing wisdom, as I always have my entire life. If the latest fad is where everyone goes, I tend to run as fast as I possibly can in the opposite direction. If a doctor says to do a certain thing I usually do the reverse and have had a much happier life because of it. Most people hate it when others are happy, so I prefer to stay happy in order to aggravate as many people as possible. That is one reason I write science fiction, most people I come in contact with prefer vampires and werewolves. I write about a positive future to just tick off everyone. Look out...!! I'm going to have to quit now. I've got to get out of the way of a legion of lemmings headed for the cliff... Help!!!

Nick wrote: "Why in the hell does every self publishing follower want to compare the music industry with writing? They are two different mediums.

Buying a music download online that is 3 to 5 minutes long is ..."

Nick, well said. I especially agree with your last statement. Self-publishing is now an industry in itself, and lots of ancillary businesses have sprung up to service it. They are the self-interested sources of most of the disinformation one sees about publishing vs. self-publishing. I've written extensively about this topic on my blog--will provide a link to one post below about wonderful applications for self-publishing, including niche topics and the reissuing of out-of-print backlists. But as a venue for a first-time novelist, it's generally a poor choice. http://barbararogan.com/blog/?p=180

Good blog link Barbara...

Thanks, Nick. I have a few more that I think would be helpful for anyone contemplating self-publishing, which I'll list below. Should perhaps mention that I was a literary agent for many years, so I'm not exactly neutral; on the other hand, I do know the industry. One of the big disadvantages of self-publishing fiction is that it cuts short the process of revising and rewriting that can take a book from a promising first draft to a first-rate novel. Even rejection, it seems, has some evolutionary value.

Posts: What if J.K. Rowling had Self-Published? http://barbararogan.com/blog/?p=29 ; Medicalert: The Scourge of Premature Submission http://barbararogan.com/blog/?p=65

Hi All, reading back through comments there seems to be lots of good advice and help out there for those who seek it.
On the comparison between the music industry and the book publishing industry, there are some parallels in there. Big labels are not the way to go for the talented, at first. It seems the onus is on the artist to provide for themselves and the monetary gains involved seem to be depleted by the sheer weight of availability. On the upside the artist has control over their work, they control their own destiny and are more in touch with their followers than ever before. It just depends how you as an artist wishes to use the system.

Judy wrote: "You don't want an agent these days anyway--they take money and don't do much of anything for it. Publishers may come knocking on on your door if you book is selling well (not free downloads but act..."

Those are actually two very good tips! Thanks Judy!

Hi Barbara,

I liked your posts and cannot find fault with the general premise, that editing and revisions make a better book.

Rejection is a most useful tool. Does this rejection have to only come from an agent or publisher? I have heard from several sources that students working towards a masters in English or other literary field can be a resource. I think that perhaps part of the past job of agents and editors was to homogenize things (make the work more palatable for a larger audience). I think that role might be changing.

These are rough numbers. Depending on the genre/sub-genre classification scheme one uses, there can be at least 3800 sub-genre. Most books can be matched with 10-20 sub-genre.

If we can accept that technology has allowed music to splinter into sub-genre of sub-genre, why is the same possibility unlikely for literature? It's not that people will read less, rather their reading will become more focused. They might read "Twlight" like everyone else but then dive back into their true passion that is centered around vampire cats.

I'm asking not stating, are agents and publishers ready to go beyond vanilla to the quirky personal preferences of readers? It's a world with lots of hits, just no home runs.

Marc wrote: "Hi Barbara,

I liked your posts and cannot find fault with the general premise, that editing and revisions make a better book.

Rejection is a most useful tool. Does this rejection have to only co..."

Marc, the problem is, like music. Its all about demographic. A certain publisher will aim books at a certain demographic and will only want more of what sells, not what is different. Indie houses are different because, by definition, they go to the hardcore of a certain genre. But major houses only want guaranteed sales. Dan Brown and the amount of copyist books which came out in his wake are a good case in point. The musical parallel being Amy Winehouse and the number of copyists that followed her lead.. if you fit the demographic then you'll fly. If not then you have to carve a deeper niche, but will tend to have more longevity in the long run.

Nick wrote: "J DeWayne,

I was responding to inaccurate comments about why some writers perceive commercial publishers and agents to be in trouble.

Again, I have nothing against self publishing, but I have to ..."

I have nothing against self-publishing either. In fact, I self published two collections last year and a modern spy novel, too. However, I have published 32 novels by the old-fashioned route, and I will continue to do so. Why? Because the agent takes away the strain and anxiety of managing the accounts, the relationships with publishers at home and abroad, he keeps me (mostly) sane by understanding, and when money's tight, he's been known to give help. He's saved me weeks of work by knowing who to call and when, and most of all, he doubled my income. Agents can be good friends as well as business partners. Publishers can be too. Yes, you will take home less from each sale as a result of having pros look after you - but you'll earn more in the long run because they will market, sell, publicise, edit, copyedit, proofread etc. Because of that, I have more time to write. I know this - I've done it both ways!

Different people look for different things. If you're happy to self-publish, epublish and all the rest, that is absolutely fine. I like it too, and will continue to do so. But I'll also write with publishers because it's easier.

Well said Michael, especially the part about the long run relationship, you'll earn more.

Marc wrote: "Hi Barbara,

I liked your posts and cannot find fault with the general premise, that editing and revisions make a better book.

Rejection is a most useful tool. Does this rejection have to only co..."

Hi Marc,

Afraid I don't agree with your premise, that editors and agents tend to homogenize writing. Most of the best agents and editors I know are hungry for something original, not the millionth clone of TWILIGHT. It's hard to come by, real originality.

It's a business, though. They choose the books they think will sell in large enough quanities to make them a profit. For a niche book meant for a small audience, the writer may need to seek our a small, specialized publisher or self-publish.

Barbara -- I've been reading this discussion with interest. I've completed four books, which I would really prefer selling through an agent, but coming to terms with the fact that it's a tough business right now, has been a hard lesson. My timing is off. I think agents are worth every penny of commission, but to find representation, you need to show two things. First, that your work is going to sell a lot of books. I mean a lot. Second, that you will continue to produce best-selling work for a long time to come. For agent to take a chance, especially with a debut author, putting a lot of time and work into shaping a book up into something they can sell to exactly the publishers they know best means they don't accept but a tiny percentage of what is pitched their way. If you write cross-genre, or in an unusual voice that will only target a small niche of readers, then it will be that much harder. I will continue to try and find one though, because being an Indie Author is a difficult job outside of the few, proven genres where Indie series actually make some money. Good luck to us all!

Richard, agents accept anywhere from 1-10% of what's pitched to them, so you're right there. But most of what's pitched is wildly unready to be published, so if you've written a good book, edited it carefully (or had it edited), and brought it as far along as you possibly can, then your odds are much better than they look.

Still, getting an agent isn't the same as selling a book. I've been hearing a lot of agents moan about stuff they can't sell now but would have been able to do a few years ago.

It is a tough market. But new writers get picked up and published every day, and IMO, if you think your book has a chance of doing well commercially, it's worth the effort to seek out an agent. There's also another route between self-publishing and big-6 commercial publishing, and I cover it in this blog post http://barbararogan.com/blog/?p=211. There's a whole rash of small publishers now, who are more accessible than the big commercial houses. They usually don't pay advances but do most of what commercial publishers do in terms of editing and marketing support. Worth a look; I have some writing students who published with Entangled Press, for example, and were thrilled with the experience.

Good luck to us all indeed!

Entangled Publishing was a name I wasn't familiar with, so I took a look. It specializes in Romance and Urban Thriller books, so not a potential for my work. I always check out small presses, but the project I'm ready to pitch is gonna be a tough match-up! Oh well... onwards!

My agent is my fairy godmother. She has more than 30 years experience in publishing. Her firm, one of the most admired and respected literary agencies in the world, never considers unsolicited material. I was lucky to be friends with one of her leading authors.

In her very first email to me in 2007 she wrote, 'I'm very intrigued by the synopsis you attached, and would very much like to read more. Would you like to send it, and I will read and react as quickly as possible?'

Over the next three years she cultivated my writing talent, encouraging me as no one else has ever done (even my creative writing professor said he thought I'd be an unsuccessful writer).

There was a lot of dross in those early drafts (as well as in my life) and yet my agent always made me feel like I was capable of writing a bestseller. She wasn't happy with the ms I ultimately submitted (financial pressures forced my hand), though it landed me a deal with my friend's publishing house. Nonetheless she made sure my contract was generous, and found me a first rate editor whom, if I'm honest, taught me how to write.

Although still not officially on her books, I've always felt like I was her special rookie. Almost single-handedly, she coaxed the novelist out of me and helped me realise my dream. They say you should dedicate the book you believe to be your finest work to your agent. I suspect it'll only be by her commendation that I know I've written my finest work.

Greg, lovely story, and congrats on the sale! But I don't understand---if she sold your book, how is it you're not on her list?

Richard wrote: "Entangled Publishing was a name I wasn't familiar with, so I took a look. It specializes in Romance and Urban Thriller books, so not a potential for my work. I always check out small presses, but t..."

Richard, you might want to check out Absolute Writer's Water Cooler. Great source of info re. small presses and other writerly topics.

Barbara wrote: "Greg, lovely story, and congrats on the sale! But I don't understand---if she sold your book, how is it you're not on her list?" She didn't sell my book. I did that on my own, against her wishes, though she tidied up the deal. She's also taking a smaller percentage from me than she does from those authors who are officially on her books, none of whom are struggling.

Greg wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Greg, lovely story, and congrats on the sale! But I don't understand---if she sold your book, how is it you're not on her list?" She didn't sell my book. I did that on my own, again..."
Congratulations, Greg! Your agent is a gem!

Barbara wrote: "Richard wrote: "Entangled Publishing was a name I wasn't familiar with, so I took a look. It specializes in Romance and Urban Thriller books, so not a potential for my work. I always check out smal..."

Thanks, Barb, for reminding me! I used to hang around there all the time, so I'll just wander over and renew my acquaintances.

Matt wrote: "Hey folks, I was wondering if anyone has any useful tips on what exatcly agents are looking for today. My first 2 attempts at writing a book were deemed not commercial material. Fair enough I thoug..."

Hi Matt,
Agents want something that is unique. It shines in a persons voice. They want a manuscript that is marketable. Like most publishers.

I think it is personal choice whether to go with an agent, a publisher or INDIE. I aim to do all three. I've been with a small press publisher, I'm about to go INDIE, and I have opened the doors for a traditional publishers.

Down the track I may seek an agent. I want to spend time writing, not marketing to the extent I am at present, so an agent would help allow time for my writing.

Carina press seem to take a variety of manuscripts.
http://carinapress.com/blog/submissio...

Also Matt, have you critique partners, beta readers, and feedback on this manuscript. I'm guessing you have after self publishing.

Oh, it helps to attend conferences. By mingling with editors and agents you put yourself out there. It does help.

All the best
Suzanne :)

Suzanne wrote: "Matt wrote: "Hey folks, I was wondering if anyone has any useful tips on what exatcly agents are looking for today. My first 2 attempts at writing a book were deemed not commercial material. Fair e..."

From my experience, mingling with editors and agents at conferences may put you out there, but for the most part you're just another face. Conferences are expensive, and unless you are attending to learn something about your craft or to mingle and to share your experiences with other writers, you might be better off spending the money on a nice vacation. Writers assume that agents who attend conferences have an eye out for new writers they would like to represent. Maybe this is true for agents who participate in pitching sessions, which by their very nature seem demeaning to writers who pay $40 or $50 to stand in line to pitch their work to an agent in ten minutes or less; however, top agents who go to conferences are more interested in the writers on the staff than they are in the hopeful new writers who are attending.

Speaking as someone who's been a presenter at many writers conferences, Marian's right: agents are more interested in connecting with the published writers who are their fellow-presenters than they are hopeful about finding work they love among the attendees. But that doesn't mean it never happens. Many writers get asked to send mss. on the basis of those meetings, which means the book actually gets a chance to sell itself; what else can a writer ask for? There's also a lot of good craft and publishing business advice to be had, plus the camaraderie of hanging out with hundreds of other writers.

I think they're fun and worthwhile.

The April 13 NYT announced that David Mamet and other well-known writers are going indie.
I've had two top agents. One became ill and left the business. The second die a year ago. A third agent that I had been interested in decided that it was too hard to make a living in today's climate.
In the past few months I've gone indie, and I'm enjoying the experience. I might not sell as many books as a publishing house no longer expenses out a publicist, which means the writer has to do his own, marketing. As an indie I have to do my own marketing, but my percentage take on the book price is a lot greater, too.

Terry, good luck! It's good that writers now have more options than in the past. But there's a third way, too, between mainstream publishers and self-publishing. You can find a post about it here: http://barbararogan.com/blog/?p=211 A number of my writing students have had success with e-publishers like Entangled, which accept subs directly from writers. They don't pay advances, but they do cover all costs of publishing and do all the same jobs a mainstream house would do: editing, marketing, promotion, design, etc.

Here's a question, this year I am selling aorund 1800 eBooks a month. I am currently covering my salary with sales. Would an e-publisher dramatically increase this or am I better sticking on my own?