THE Group for Authors! discussion

There has been a lot of talk recently further to the news about Amazon buying GR about the review policy on 'Zon. I know a lot of authors here like to review author's work and that is great, many people feel they cannot review on Amazon.

I emailed KDP support and this is the answer I got. (Whether someone else would get a contrary answer is anyone's guess.)

"I understand you'd like some further clarification on what products authors are allowed to leave reviews on.

Authors are prohibited from submitting reviews on products they have a financial interest in, as well as directly competing products. This means that an author wouldn't be allowed to submit a negative review for a book in the same genre they write in."

So I can't review my sister's book (if she had one) or indeed my own. I think the key word here is NEGATIVE. So it would appear I could leave a positive review for an author in the same genre?

How that will affect reviews here? No idea;)

Is this retroactive, I wonder? for example, I reviewed an author's work a full year ago. I only just now published, and that author helped me figure out how to self publish. Does that mean my previous review would be wiped?

I really don't know. I guess that is "financial interest" or at least is now. It does seem the case that some reviews get removed and it is not always obvious why. How it is decided I have no idea.

I tend not to review on Amazon anyway but I may well read a fantasy or romance book and genuinely not enjoy it and feel it is worth a low rating. I wonder if it applies to established authors...

Didn't they change that a year or so ago?

I remember hearing stories last year sometime about Amazon wiping a bunch of reviews because of this, or something very similar.

Yes I think it did change not long ago. There was that scandal about authors sockpuppeting. Personally I think it has gone to far but I suppose it is hard to tell what might be a snarky review because the other other is trying to downgrade someones book in favour of their own or whatever. Although how they know I have no clue.

I know people have had good reviews go as well as bad...

I love to review and I'll be majorly upset if I am censored because I have a book out.
Majorly upset.

The 'same genre' -- how wide is that? In my case, does that mean historical fiction? What, I can't one- or two-star a historical fiction? Excuse?

Since I heard of these policies on Amazon I haven't bothered to try to review there. Because I've had this outlet, Goodreads.

I enjoy to review, I review in-depth, I like to exercise my critical skills, and second only to my fiction, it's a joy to write reviews. Nobody's going to tell me I can't.

There are books I share a subject with and I'm the first to tell you I'm unobjective and I don't comment on them in public, never mind review them. They can trust me for that.

Stop me? This is close to the bone for me, I'm more emotional at this spectre than I was on the day of the Announcement. I have a right to review.

Amazon's statement above is so vague as to tell us nothing but that these things are in their judgement, at their verdict, at their whim. I've never heard a more focused statement from them.

Well, it would be very hard for me to review, if the rule were strictly enforced, as my book is cross-genre and could be considered part of at least 7 genres.

Further, I think authors reviewing is important to both authors in the process. For example, if I were starting in a genre and (not that this would happen much) an established author in my genre posted a review, even a negative one, I'd be thrilled or at least instructed. If the review were abusive, wouldn't it be obvious as abusive whether it was from another author or not?

I recognize they had a sockpuppet problem, but to me that rule is like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Well, I've reviewed in both Sci-Fi and fantasy (my books are classified by the publisher as science-fantasy) and none of mine have been pulled (yet). Of course, I don't think I've reviewed any of them below a 3-star rating. I'm not sure what a 'bad' rating is - 2 stars? Or just 1-star? On the other hand, several reviews have disappeared from my own books with no explanation (and they were all good ones).

I agree it is vague, but the response was less vague than the guidelines. I don't tend to review a great deal on Zon anyway. I would say 2 star is bad there.

How one decides an author reviewer is reviewing purely to sell his or her book I have no idea. "This book is crap... buy THIS BOOK" I am pretty sure that would get pulled.

But authors are readers as well, and I certainly read in the genre I write in.

I've reviewed a paranormal romance on Amazon, and one of my books is a paranormal romance. Only difference is hers is YA and mine isn't, but it's still the same genre. The review is still there, and there has never been a problem with it. It was four stars, though. I only have limited experience reviewing on Amazon but I think as long as it's not a negative review you can review in your genre. It's weird - you should be able to say a book sucks even if it's in your genre - but I guess they're trying to stop negative reviews where someone is just trying to make their competition look bad.

Yes, I think so but you still may not like the book....

I'm realizing it makes sense to copy all reviews, those you write and those you receive to your computer. The reviews took some effort, after all, and in the end you should own them physically, even a third party website decides it needs to be erased.

I think other readers can tell when a reviewer has some sort of ax to grind. If a review is dishonest, it shows. I have written a couple of two-start reviews and one-star review. Those reviews were warranted, either because the writing was bad or the story telling was bad - or both, as was the case in the one-star review. I feel that if you have read a book, you have an obligation to review it honestly.

I agree wholeheartedly with Mike.

Oh yes. I think if someone did not like a book then they didn't. You simply can't please everyone. Spiteful reviews show, whether they are written by a fellow author or a reader.

Sometimes people simply make a mistake in their choice or don't do a little bit of research first and sometimes the book is just not for them, or even in a few cases simply bad;)

Yes I think you should be allowed to write a negative review of a book in the genre you write in, because surely you're not going to like every book in your genre? And naturally that's the genre your most likely to read. It is silly and childish of Amazon to have these rules, but I guess we're stuck with them. And I agree that you can probably tell when a review is written dishonestly.

Besides, readers want to see a mix of reviews on a book - if I see a book on Amazon that's rated all 4 and 5 stars I get bored and look for another one. It makes the book seem fake somehow if EVERYONE likes it, and that it hasn't appealed to a wide variety of readers, or else there would be bad reviews with the good. I prefer it if a book has negative reviews, as weird as that sounds, but obviously I won't likely buy it if it has an average of 2 stars or something. But negative reviews give a book credibility and every successful book has them.

Sorry, I went a bit off topic :)

Oh well maybe they will ease up a bit on the reviews. Who knows.

Mona wrote: "Yes I think you should be allowed to write a negative review of a book in the genre you write in, because surely you're not going to like every book in your genre? And naturally that's the genre yo..."

I somewhat agree, but I also recognize that a book MIGHT be just that good. I would hate to dismiss it just because everyone likes it.

But I also am waiting on some reviewers to review mine and I admit I ALMOST want someone to at least give it a reasonable 3 since right now I have only 4s and 5s. Now THAT is weird, hoping for more of a bell curve on my reviews of my own book.

there's gotta be some fancy schmancy name for that, akin to schaudenfreude -- Maybe starzenfreude where almost hope for a less than stellar review for balance.

lol!

John wrote: "I somewhat agree, but I also recognize that a book MIGHT be just that good. I would hate to dismiss it just because everyone likes it."

You have a point but it's not even a conscious decision for me - as soon as I see a book has all good ratings I just feel bored straight away. Especially if it has about 20 reviews or something. I yawn and can't be bothered.

I suppose if it was a book I was dying to read and the reviews were all positive then I'd still buy it, but I'd like to see some at least 3 star reviews so I can see what's good and bad about the book. It helps me to make my decision if I can get a balanced view.

Mona wrote: as soon as I see a book has all good ratings I just feel bored straight away. Especially if it has about 20 reviews or something. I yawn and can't be bothered."

So if a book was universally agreed upon to be the book of the century and no one had a bad thing to say about it - that would just bore you to death?

Strange.

How broad is this? My specialty is science, specifically biology, but I certainly am knowledgeable enough about plenty of other disciplines within the realm of science to give their books an intelligent review. Does Amazon seriously want romance book writers (now don't bombard me with scorn - if I could write and sell a good romance novel, I'd do it in a heartbeat) to be their reviewers on works about theorectical particle physics?

You make a great point, Robert. There are some topics where only the experts who write about similar things could be qualified to determine whether a book is good or bad. As authors, I think we all tend to write in a genre that we like to read. I personally probably only read in three genre, and I might write in any one of them. I am certainly not going to write a book in a genre that I don't read. That makes little if any sense to me.

As to Mona's comment about being bored with reading all five-star ratings for a book, I would like to be the author of a book that is the source of your next attack of ennui.

Robert that is a question to ask Amazon. I could review a book on Astronavigation saying it was confusing but as I understand nothing about the topic it is a worthless review.

It is a good point.

I was hoping to get some reviews for my book on Amazon. I searched their "top reviewer" list. Out of 450 or so on the list, only a few dozen did YA reviews. Out of those, a handful gave contact data. Of those, two responded to my offer of a review copy. (One declined very politely.)

Any suggestions?

There are some review sites, including on GR and some agree to promote to Zon

Mona wrote: "John wrote: "You have a point but it's not even a conscious decision for me - as soon as I see a book has all good ratings I just feel bored straight away. Especially if it has about 20 reviews or something. I yawn and can't be bothered"

I just realized I'm in the embarrassing and bizarre position of having all positive reviews up to this point. This would mean you'll never read my book! lol.
*runs out to get someone to hate his book*

:)

Now that Amazon owns Goodreads, what will happen to reviews? The All-Powerful can apply their rules and we are at their mercy. I give up trying to figure it out.

Ginney, that is the million credit question. The "official" line from Otis is nothing will change, the truth is we must wait and see.

I think since Goodreads is a bit cozier than Amazon, the review policy for GR authors will probably not change. I'm one of the top/best reviewers on the site, despite being an author, and I know a lot of other authors are in similar position. GR would lose a lot of their core customers, I think, if they banned author reviews. It's hard to be a writer if you don't love to read, after all!

I agree. I read a far wider range than the genre I write in. Besides I think most of us are mature enough NOT to slate another author's work to make ours look better. Really if we have so little confidence...

Seriously. Most of the authors I've met are wonderful people who are far too busy with their own work to have the time (or the motivation) to sabotage another's.

Plus, GR's reviewer community is so vigilant, I feel like the people who would do such a thing would quickly get themselves banned, thus saving everyone else the trouble.

Lol yes. Sadly a few badly behaved authors on Zon caused problems for the rest of us. I mean sometimes even as an author you might read a book and not like it. :)

Writers are usually readers as well. I hope the reviews here stay pretty much as they are. Although half stars would be useful, but I think that has been discussed before.

My friend and publisher Sue Thomason got two bad Amazon reviews from another author in the same genre (a diet book). One is on the UK site and a really awful one on the US site. As soon as the reviews went on it pretty much put an end to the sales of her Kindle book. There's nothing she can do about it as the author set up a fake profile and used different IP addresses.

How do I know - because I know the author and she admitted it to me!

Getting reviews is really hard and open to so much abuse. I'm sure there must be a better way than what's going on at the moment.

Wow that is terrible. Hopefully Amazon will remove them.

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its interesting how ANY TYPE of discussion on goodreads can be happening, and a self-promo breaks out.

It's like a bird flu epidemic.

K.A. wrote: "It's like a bird flu epidemic."

but apparently, less curable. ;)

I did notice that...

Back on topic does anyone know how the borrowed books apply for Amazon? Does it count as a verified purchase?

I have reviewed a number of books on Amazon, from one star to five, in and out of the genres I have written in. I have never had a problem with the reviews posting.

I think as long as amazon's magic behind-the-scenes machinery can tell that you purchased the book, a review won't be deleted. But if you got a free review copy, note that in the review with the disclaimer like "I received a free copy of this book for the purposes of writing an unbiased review."

I've never put the disclaimer in, usually because I just forget, but I still haven't had reviews pulled. I buy a lot of stuff through Amazon other than books, so maybe that's why. It's all a Big Mystery - maybe someone should write a book about the Man Behind the Curtain at Amazon!

Or woman.